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uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

I'm still stunned that they haven't released a demo with one of the shorter scenarios like Road to Minsk yet. It would let people actually see the game in action before they sink $90 into it and maybe push a few of them over the edge into making that leap. (I'm not actually stunned, none of these companies want to make money.) That said I think WitE is the outlier here where it's actually simpler than it looks, if you gave someone the Guadalcanal scenario in WitP for instance there's no way that would secure a purchase.

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MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Either having good demos or a price that won't make you regret your purchase if you didn't like the game is the way to go. I'd never ever buy a game that I'm not a 100% (i.e no games) sure about for more than 60 dollars. For 20 bucks it's ok if I couldn't get into it. I probably will sometime in the future, and if I don't I'm ok with that. But for $90? I'd rather not.

Maybe I sound cheap, but I don't have all that much money to spend (or want to on games) being a student and all. 90 bucks is 3-4 of the games I normally buy.

Fake edit: But I must say that Commander: The Great War is looking pretty compelling. Not that expensive neither.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Your friendly croctopus overlord LP'er

I think their problem is now a lack of middle ground.

We're not asking for them to sell their games for a penny, we're just asking them to bring them in line with others, We're not asking for WITE to be 2:50 on a steam daily sale, but maybe they could move the price down to that of most other games. They see only the low and the high scales, not the sane middle ground.

V for Vegas
Aug 31, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Grey Hunter posted:

I think their problem is now a lack of middle ground.

We're not asking for them to sell their games for a penny, we're just asking them to bring them in line with others, We're not asking for WITE to be 2:50 on a steam daily sale, but maybe they could move the price down to that of most other games. They see only the low and the high scales, not the sane middle ground.

I think they like stating that wargames aren't Angry Birds too much to give up that argument.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands


Grey Hunter posted:

I think their problem is now a lack of middle ground.

We're not asking for them to sell their games for a penny, we're just asking them to bring them in line with others, We're not asking for WITE to be 2:50 on a steam daily sale, but maybe they could move the price down to that of most other games. They see only the low and the high scales, not the sane middle ground.

You know, I wonder if this is a common problem amongst indie devs that price high. I remember the Spiderweb Software guy (they made old-school RPGs with poor graphics and good gameplay/writing) used to be almost violently opposed price cuts before getting on Steam and realizing "Hey, selling my games for a lower price actually brings in huge monies." But before he gave in, he was constantly railing that "I'm not going to cut my price, selling at two dollars per game is ridiculous and would kill me," despite the fact that his games would have been around the $10-20 range on Steam. Even after he converted he continued to insist that while he might lower his price to something more reasonable, he would NEVER drop prices to two bucks, despite the fact that no sane person would have asked him to do so.

Like, is there some insane faction of marketers out there roaming the Internet and insisting that all games sell for under five dollars unless they're AAA titles or something? Who the heck is demanding that these games be priced like App store purchases?

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.




Some of it is just that some people believe more money per sale is intrinsically superior to less money per sale but more sales to lead to a higher aggregate.

When I was younger, I had to do sales for the computer store I worked at. The owner insisted that everything had to be sold with a 100% markup. If we ordered someone a computer, we had to charge them twice the list price. Obviously, most people balked at that. So I asked him, well what if I can get someone to buy at the still asinine-80% markup instead of 100%? Wouldn't that be better than having them tell us to fuckoff and leave?

He was violently opposed to the idea, and would actually rather lose a sale than lower his arbitrary price threshold by any amount.

Unsurprisingly, we also had problems with our paychecks bouncing occasionally and having to move to new locations periodically to dodge his creditors. I have never met a more stupid, sleazy human being than him.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



uPen posted:

I'm still stunned that they haven't released a demo with one of the shorter scenarios like Road to Minsk yet. It would let people actually see the game in action before they sink $90 into it and maybe push a few of them over the edge into making that leap. (I'm not actually stunned, none of these companies want to make money.) That said I think WitE is the outlier here where it's actually simpler than it looks, if you gave someone the Guadalcanal scenario in WitP for instance there's no way that would secure a purchase.

This is the thing that I absolutely cannot stand about Matrix: they just loving refuse to do demos except once in a blue moon.

Also their website is awful to navigate, so I can only assume that they intentionally make finding information about their products difficult.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Nenonen posted:

This is the thing that I absolutely cannot stand about Matrix: they just loving refuse to do demos except once in a blue moon.


To be fair, I can believe that the only thing a demo would do 90% of the time is help people dodge games with horrific design choices.

By the way

blackmongoose posted:

Imagine if someone made a relatively more accessible version of WITE - a divisional/corps scale East Front game where you don't have to set air unit percentages or the like. Now imagine it retailed for $50-60. That game would sell like crazy. Every time I see WITE discussion, the common thread is "I would buy it if it were cheaper/a little easier to get into." I think there's a number of people out there interested in these games, but they don't want to risk $100 on an unknown quantity.

It's called Decisive Campaigns and is another game that if it had better documentation/guidance (ie. better than 'this effects combat results... in some way') and a respectable price drop could easily go up on Steam alongside Unity of Command.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Maybe a petty thing to complain about but I got pretty annoyed at Matrix Games for not showing the price including the VAT, which comes as a kick in the nuts when you are at the checkout. With 25% VAT here I kinda want to see the full price before I decide to buy a game at the indicated price. I mean they already go to the trouble of showing the price in my local currency, so why not this when it get added later anyway?

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Your friendly croctopus overlord LP'er

This is something that's been mentioned to them before, I think I heard its actually illegal, but they say its to much effort for their servers.

Zamboni Apocalypse
Dec 29, 2009


Grey Hunter posted:

This is something that's been mentioned to them before, I think I heard its actually illegal, but they say its to much effort for their servers.

Perhaps they should upgrade to younger gerbils running in the wheels? Because they must be using some kind of Lego-based technology for a VAT (or any other tax calculation) to be "too much effort for the servers".

If they said "too much effort for the guy doing the website", maybe...

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Your friendly croctopus overlord LP'er

Zamboni Apocalypse posted:

Perhaps they should upgrade to younger gerbils running in the wheels? Because they must be using some kind of Lego-based technology for a VAT (or any other tax calculation) to be "too much effort for the servers".

If they said "too much effort for the guy doing the website", maybe...

yeah, it might have been that. It was definitely "nah, that's to much effort."

cool new Metroid game
Oct 7, 2009

hail satan

Grimey Drawer

How the hell is that too much effort? It's just really shady and annoying.
The SC:WW1 demo seems pretty cool, even if the square tiles and graphics reminds me of Civ2.

Zamboni Apocalypse
Dec 29, 2009


Grey Hunter posted:

yeah, it might have been that. It was definitely "nah, that's to much effort."

"Hi, we're Matrix, experts in the art of kriegsperg. We can model the effects of a rare medium-caliber armour-piercing round on an even more rare armoured-vehicle variant, or calculate the percentages of a mixed-infantry assault across a river into woods containing a third-line police cavalry unit.

"Estimating taxes on a purchase? MATH IS HARD."


Koesj
Aug 3, 2003


In places where VAT is actually 25%, I'm sure it's hella illegal to not include it, or at least a mention of 'local' taxes, in its listed price.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Koesj posted:

In places where VAT is actually 25%, I'm sure it's hella illegal to not include it, or at least a mention of 'local' taxes, in its listed price.

As far as I know it's required to show prices including VAT here unless it's aimed at companies. They usually show prices excluding VAT since you can deduct VAT from your taxes and poo poo if you are a company.

This is pissing me of. Part of me wants Commander: The Great War since it seems like a good entry game (watching an LP of it on youtube) in a setting that I'd really like to play. But the other part of me don't want to indulge Matrix in their bullshit.

vyshka
Aug 10, 2010


Anyone here have thoughts on Steam and Iron: The Great War ?

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



vyshka posted:

Anyone here have thoughts on Steam and Iron: The Great War ?

No but I really, really like their no-nonsense web design
http://www.navalwarfare.net/

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010


Jesus christ, the 90ies called and want their webdesign back.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Grey Hunter posted:

This is something that's been mentioned to them before, I think I heard its actually illegal, but they say its to much effort for their servers.

Their servers that only serve downloads for 48 hours after purchase so you need to email them to re-download your game after that, those servers? When I can go out and torrent a copy of the game I own faster than I can get it from the company I bought it from something has gone wrong.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003


Nenonen posted:

No but I really, really like their no-nonsense web design
http://www.navalwarfare.net/

Looks like Harpoon is the end state of naval combat games. Pack it up, developailures.

cool new Metroid game
Oct 7, 2009

hail satan

Grimey Drawer

Not being able to easily re-download a game you have purchased makes you appreciate it more.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010




Lipstick Apathy

ArchangeI posted:

Jesus christ, the 90ies called and want their webdesign back.

90's web design, you say? http://hpssims.com/

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010


gradenko_2000 posted:

90's web design, you say? http://hpssims.com/

I was going to joke that it lacked a Webring for the full experience.


Then I scrolled down.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



On the other hand, you can't say a bad word about this:

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/About%...ffy/fluffy.html

Also,

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/TillerCon.html

wargamers.jpg

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Nenonen posted:


wargamers.jpg

It's Matrix Games' entire customer base in one shot.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

ArchangeI posted:

I was going to joke that it lacked a Webring for the full experience.


Then I scrolled down.

A webring banner in the year of our lord 2013, now I've seen everything.

e: It's just a banner, the page it links to has been dead for years.

uPen fucked around with this message at May 9, 2013 around 22:16

Chump Farts
May 8, 2009

There is no Coordinator but Narduzzi, and Shilique is his Prophet.


So uPen levels of Za Rodinu aside, what is an acceptable Soviet goal through the first summer in terms of land held and casualty ratio versus a human player? Also how variable is the variable weather? I really, really need mud.

Pretty rad dad pad
Oct 13, 2003

People who try to pretend they're superior make it so much harder for those of us who really are. Philistines!


ArchangeI posted:

Jesus christ, the 90ies called and want their webdesign back.

You joke (or do you?), but I remember looking up the Fleet Command Naval Warfare Project mod thing in, god, 1999, I think, and it pretty much was that website, so I have no problems believing that it is literally from the 1990s.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

I caved and bought Commander: The Great War. Not proud of myself, but at least the game is fun and addictive as hell. Just one more turn. Ok, last one. 5 hours later and I'm sort of winning the war.

Necroneocon
May 12, 2009

by Shine


Nenonen posted:

On the other hand, you can't say a bad word about this:

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/About%...ffy/fluffy.html

Also,

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/TillerCon.html

wargamers.jpg

Don't you loving make fun of John Tiller the man is a goddamned genius. I'll have your head.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010




Lipstick Apathy

I never bought Don to the Danube, but Lost Battles looks interesting enough to be worth a buy.

Don to the Danube's scenarios sounded like they suffered from the original scenario's problems where the game would end just as you got to the really good stuff - the Soviets would defend for 17 turns, but were never able to take a money-shot themselves, while the Germans could just advance willy-nilly without regard for covering their asses in the eventual counter-attack.

These new Lost Battles seem like they have more of a give-and-take date range.

Jakse posted:

So uPen levels of Za Rodinu aside, what is an acceptable Soviet goal through the first summer in terms of land held and casualty ratio versus a human player? Also how variable is the variable weather? I really, really need mud.

Don't quote me on this, but I think you can expect to lose Leningrad, but you really have to try and hold Moscow and not let AGS advance farther than Stalino. Taking historical numbers of losses (8 milion in the first year?) is a death-knell.

Random weather is generally known to favor the Soviet player, as there's always that one turn of early mud that just covers the whole map and kills off German momentum.


That still looks a lot more alive than Ctrl Alt Del's Digital Overload.

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT


Has anyone tried Command: Air/Naval Operations It looks a lot like Harpoon but with google earth for a backdrop and even more units. However, they are taking their dear sweet time and I'm starting to get rattled by the amount of time they take.

Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at May 11, 2013 around 22:48

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004

peckerwoOoOooods


Fun Shoe

I've been looking forward to Command. Red Pill was a much better name though.

Mr. Showtime
Apr 24, 2009

ROBUST COMBAT
Leonard Riflepiss


Soiled Meat

Top Hats Monthly posted:

Has anyone tried Command: Air/Naval Operations It looks a lot like Harpoon but with google earth for a backdrop and even more units. However, they are taking their dear sweet time and I'm starting to get rattled by the amount of time they take.

I've been following it for a little while. It does look like it's taking almost-dangerous amounts of time to go anywhere, though, and the fact that they actually post about it maybe once every month and a half doesn't help calm that notion. At least they have videos and screenshots -- it's not total vaporware.

Necroneocon
May 12, 2009

by Shine


Mr. Showtime posted:

I've been following it for a little while. It does look like it's taking almost-dangerous amounts of time to go anywhere, though, and the fact that they actually post about it maybe once every month and a half doesn't help calm that notion. At least they have videos and screenshots -- it's not total vaporware.

If you read the monthly updates it's really sad actually, the guy is disabled or was disabled, and had like a million bad things happen in his life.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010




Lipstick Apathy

New weekly deals from Matrix:

Commander: Napoleon at War - it's the Napoleonic version of Commander The Great War, which means it's light and easy playable and covers the whole of Europe. The only drawback is that like its WW2 cousin, the first iterations of the Commander series were coded in java, which means the interface is a bit gummy to work through and the resolution is fixed.

Crown of Glory - it's the Napoleonic version of Forge of Freedom, which means you move armies around on a Risk-like strategic level and then fight out the battles on a tactical level. I don't know much about how good this title is, admittedly - only that Grey Hunter LP'd it (requires archives) and that the devs felt like that LP spread word of their game so much that they gave him a free copy.

Both are going for 19.99 each.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Your friendly croctopus overlord LP'er

Actaully, I got COG for the FOF LP.

I like COG, its got some nice tricks to it, like prisoners that are tracked and returned to your armies once you sign peace treaties. It also has both Naval and land combat on the hex grid. The production side of it is a nightmare though, if you go off the simple ecnonomy be prepared to spend half an hour (or more if you are playing Russia) moving sliders to maximize the production of wine.

I really need to LP it again with a none gimped country. We only got a few land battles in the linked LP, and although we did well, it really was a sub-optimal playthrough.

V for Vegas
Aug 31, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER

gradenko_2000 posted:

New weekly deals from Matrix:

Commander: Napoleon at War - it's the Napoleonic version of Commander The Great War, which means it's light and easy playable and covers the whole of Europe. The only drawback is that like its WW2 cousin, the first iterations of the Commander series were coded in java, which means the interface is a bit gummy to work through and the resolution is fixed.

Crown of Glory - it's the Napoleonic version of Forge of Freedom, which means you move armies around on a Risk-like strategic level and then fight out the battles on a tactical level. I don't know much about how good this title is, admittedly - only that Grey Hunter LP'd it (requires archives) and that the devs felt like that LP spread word of their game so much that they gave him a free copy.

Both are going for 19.99 each.

COG is $29.99.

I read the COG dev saying that doing the 'Emperor's Edition' expansion was a bad idea. I guess high prices don't guarantee good returns.

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Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

V for Vegas posted:

COG is $29.99.

I read the COG dev saying that doing the 'Emperor's Edition' expansion was a bad idea. I guess high prices don't guarantee good returns.

It would be recommendable but for the fact that the economy section involves moving sliders to maximise production of wine.

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