|
Everyone play UR Faeries and punish the three-color decks with Blood Moon on games two and three.
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2013 23:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:51 |
|
|
I played a Modern GPT in Vancouver last Saturday. Wasn't a huge field (20+ish?) but UWR Twin seemed like the most popular deck in the room. Top 8: 3x UWR Twin 1x UR Twin 1x RG Tron 1x Scapeshift 1x Junk 1x Not sure, I think it may have been another Junk deck. Junk ended up taking down the event beating Twin in quarters & semis and then scapeshift in the finals.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 00:24
|
|
|
I'm glad to see this thread - some friends and I are starting to get into Modern, though we don't have local stores that run Modern events yet (hell, we only have one that runs events at all) and so we're building cheaper decks, or ones where we at least already have the money cards from EDH or flirtations with Standard: mine's Gifts Rock, another has Naya Pod and a third is tinkering with some Nivmagus Elemental combo deck he found. I'm slowly accumulating parts for a Grixis Delver list I've had fun with on Lackey, but it's slow going; I'm just trying to have it together by the time I move somewhere that runs more events this summer. I'm definitely going to have to give Living End or Durette's BW list a spin next time we play Modern. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 00:42
|
|
|
So here's a thing: http://bidwicket.com I've found it's immensely easier/cheaper to get cards from here, especially common/uncommon staples. You can comparison shop and get things on the cheap, just be aware that paying a few cents more per card can make financial sense on shipping. White Lion and Strike Zone are consistently cheap and great. Also, http://gixen.com lets you snipe if you want to try your luck with eBay; it's a fairly simple interface and can save you beaucoups dollars.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 01:04
|
|
|
I've been playing around with the idea of a Modern prison deck based around Orb of Dreams and Eon Hub. It started as something I could sideboard for my mono-Red blood moon gimmick deck in matchups where blood moon doesn't harm my opponent, allowing me to (more slowly) lock the opponent out still, and the win with Koth. Still, the decks that don't care about blood moon are fast enough to not care about me wasting my time to set up this janky combo. So now, I'm looking at how I would build a deck specifically for the lock. I figure the deck can either try to power out the combo as fast as possible, or play a slow control game and eventually set up a lock. Either way, the deck will probably have to win with planeswalkers. Since we're talking about an eight-mana two card combo that doesn't win on its own, I've decided against the speed method (it certainly didn't do all that much to ptry and power it out in mono-R). For control, the UWR deck that's already out there has been my starting point. Because I don't have the stuff for that deck, I haven't built it yet, but I figured I'd bring in the idea and see if anyone else has good insight into ways to make the combo work, a better shell for it, etc. Right now my planeswalker package is 3 Jace Beleren, 2 Tamiyo (card draw with potential wincon ult on Jace, Tapping shenanigans on Tamiyo) 2 Ajani Vengeant and 1 Koth (Ajani for more tapping shenanigans and removal, Koth as a wincon/ mana producer/ land untapper). PLus, I'm adding 6 more cards to the deck with 3 Orb and 3 hub. Most of my cuts from RUW control lists I started looking at were spot removal cards, plus all of the card draw except Sphinx's Rev, relying on my planeswalkers to get me more cards and keep creatures off my life total. Once the lock is in place, the deck really only need one surviving 'walker to win, (except Tamiyo, her ult doesn't spell free wins since my lands won't be untapping). It's tempting to include one or two Amulet of Vigor, but I'm not sure where I'd fit it in, since the deck is already squeezed for slots. If anyone else is interested in the idea, I can post the full list here or in the Brewhaus, and we can mess with it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 01:13
|
|
|
Oldsrocket_27 posted:I've been playing around with the idea of a Modern prison deck based around Orb of Dreams and Eon Hub.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 01:28
|
|
|
Did a spoiler list get released for Modern Masters, or any more hints as to what cards will be in it? I've been out of the game for a long time so help me out- if you have both Exquisite Blood and Sanguine Bond out, any life gain by you or life loss by your opponent kills them?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 01:31
|
|
|
Correct. There's also Mindcrank + Duskmantle Guildmage, for a cheaper, less-color-intensive version.
Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Apr 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 01:34
|
|
|
I played a ton of modern during the last season, almost all of it with Twin. First time in a long time I've devoted enough time to a deck to really be able to explain/defend all of the card choices. Here was the list I ended up with at the end: Lands 2x Halimar Depths 4x Scalding Tarn 2x Misty Rainforest 2x Steam Vents 1x Breeding Pool 2x Sulfur Falls 2x Cascade Bluffs 3x Mountain 5x Island Enchantments 3x Splinter Twin Creatures 4x Deceiver Exarch 3x Pestermite 1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker 3x Snapcaster Mage 2x Vendilion Clique 2x Grim Lavamancer Instants 1x Cryptic Command 2x Spell Pierce 1x Dispel 3x Remand 3x Lightning Bolt 3x Thought Scour Sorceries 4x Serum Visions 2x Sleight of Hand Sideboard: 2x Ancient Grudge 2x Spellskite 2x Relic of Progenitus 2x Negate 2x Blood Moon 1x Flame Slash 1x Combust 1x Echoing Truth 1x Threads of Disloyalty 1x Pyroclasm I haven't really played modern since the ptq season ended, so I can't compare to the UWR lists, but in general my list was fantastic against RG tron, Affinity, and Eggs; positive against storm; slightly positive against UW control; somewhere in the middle against Monowhite and Pod; a bit negative against UWR; and pretty bad against decks with Liliana. Also I had an amazing mirror matchup percentage because nobody ever seemed to know how to play the mirror correctly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 01:51
|
|
|
C-Euro posted:Did a spoiler list get released for Modern Masters, or any more hints as to what cards will be in it? You are correct, sir. Best way to trigger that is via Blood Artist blocking (lol) or casting anything and paying the Extort cost. BUT it is very rare that you will get both out there. The deck allows you to go one way or the other depending on what you draw. Most of the mechanics in the deck allow for either.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 02:03
|
|
|
Tharizdun posted:This does literally nothing. Ach, yeah I kept reading it as a stasis/sands of time type effect. Well, there goes that. At least I hadn't bought any cards to mess with it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 03:21
|
|
|
Oldsrocket_27 posted:I've been playing around with the idea of a Modern prison deck based around Orb of Dreams and Eon Hub. I think the card you're looking for is Stasis. For Modern legal, you can always try the Pickles Lock. You get Brine Elemental and Vesuvan Shapeshifter on the battlefield and you pretty much lock them out since you're playing cards like Cryptic Command and Rune Snag. You can even play 1-2 copies of Voidmage Prodigy and get extra mileage on your Snapcasters! Honestly though... I think you're better off playing Esper Teachings since you get a much stronger card advantage engine, a bigger and better control toolbox, and you can close out games quicker by flashing back Esper Charm using the discard mode and fetching out a copy of White Sun's Zenith after the Damnation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 03:24
|
|
|
Star Man posted:Everyone play UR Faeries and punish the three-color decks with Blood Moon on games two and three.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 05:23
|
|
|
Wadjamaloo posted:Is this a thing? It sounds sweet. I can't say for certain that it's viable in the current meta but I've played UR Fae before in modern and legacy and it generally has the ability to be quite good. It's basically efficient and disruptive creatures, counterspells to keep the opponent from getting off the ground too well and burn to either act as removal or give you the last bit of reach. A basic core would be something along the lines of: 4 Grim Lavamancer 4 Spellstutter Sprite 4 Vendilion Clique 4 Sower of Temptation + Mistbind Clique, not quite sure on the ratios here then you have lightning bolts, Vedalken Shackles, some counterspells and probably Cryptic Command? In the board you'll have Ancient Grudge and Firespout, and somewhere in your 75 you'll have a Breeding Pool to tutor to activate it. Against heavily multicolor decks you probably board out the Cryptics and board in the Blood Moons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 14:38
|
|
|
I've been playing UG Combo Elves in Modern already, so when Beck/Call comes out I'll be very excited. I'm still like 200 tickets away from being optimal, but I'll post my working decklist when I get home. The basic core is just Elf Alarm, with all of the combos in the deck. Heritage Druid + Nettle Sentinel + Imperious Perfect + Elf Alarm + Elvish Visionary + Cloudstone Curio + other poo poo.
factorialite fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Apr 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 17:36
|
|
|
NovemberMike posted:I can't say for certain that it's viable in the current meta but I've played UR Fae before in modern and legacy and it generally has the ability to be quite good. It's basically efficient and disruptive creatures, counterspells to keep the opponent from getting off the ground too well and burn to either act as removal or give you the last bit of reach. Mine goes completely tribal. This is my list as of January: Deck: Faerie Trickery   //Main 4 Spellstutter Sprite 3 Scion of Oona 3 Vendilion Clique 2 Mistbind Clique 2 Spellskite 4 Spell Snare 4 Mana Leak 4 Remand 3 Cryptic Command 4 Lightning Bolt 2 Vedalken Shackles 10 Snow-Covered Island 1 Snow-Covered Mountain 4 Steam Vents 4 Scalding Tarn 4 Mutavault 2 Tectonic Edge //Sideboard 3 Blood Moon 2 Chalice of the Void 2 Echoing Truth 2 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Sower of Temptation 1 Spell Pierce 1 Spellskite 2 Surgical Extraction 1 Tormod's Crypt  Display deck statistics
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 19:14
|
|
|
I'm coming at this more from the legacy side of things, but the issue with going for Scion of Oona is that it highlights a weaker aspect of the Faerie tribe. The big thing about fae is that they have powerful effects even when you don't have other cards on the table. Spellstutter can counter a lot with just a mutavault as the other faerie, Mistbind Clique keeps your fae count neutral and Vendilion Clique is legendary so it doesn't help you flood the board. Scion is good when it gets going but it's also very easy for it to not get going. Grim Lavamancer gives you a very strong amount of reach and board control. I kind of want to test some UR fae now...
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 19:31
|
|
|
I really can't think of a better reason for playing with Scion of Oona other than that I just like it*. I've heard of it being described as a counterspell for spells targeted at your faeries that also happens to be a faerie lord. While flooding the board isn't with faeries isn't totally necessary, it is good to have a few down and protected so that Spellstutter Sprite can counter higher cost spells. If I were to replace it, I would replace it with Faerie Impostor and find a place for Aethar Vial and do some shenanigans with Spellstutter Sprite. *Using Scion of Oona to counter a Cryptic Command with modes "return target permanent to its owner's hands; draw a card" is one of the best things I've ever done to annoy the poo poo out of an opponent.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 19:46
|
|
|
While playing twin, there were a lot of times I considered moving towards UR faeries/tempo, but I don't know that it's worth it. I can already play a fairly decent tempo game, and there are a lot of matchups where the ability to win quickly is the only reason the matchup is winnable. Also I would be really worried about things like Supreme Verdict.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 21:01
|
|
|
I played a bunch of modern last season and I top 8'd a PTQ with a Scapeshift list. Unfortunately, I lost in the first round of top 8 to the same guy that handed me my only loss during swiss, an eggs player. Needless to say, I'm not too upset about the banning. I'm actually a huge fan of Scapeshift. The deck is very strong, and during the PTQ season I did a bunch of testing and felt like Scapeshift was actually very well positioned in that meta. I mean the whole reason I initially bought into the deck was because of the strong Jund matchup, of course I felt a little silly after BBE got banned, although Jund was obviously still a deck after that. Still though, the deck felt very strong against a lot of the field. It is really sweet to play the deck though since, as many people have said, its basically a 'one card combo', and all you have to do is just play lands and then just win. You can see my list here, number 8. The only change I made after that event was I changed the creeping corrosion in the board to a second Slaughter Games. Also: to everyone talking about Living End. Its a good budget option but the deck basically rolls over to Remand, which means right out of the gate you have a bad matchup against UWR which is probably the most popular deck in the format, and you're also weak to UW(R) control and Scapeshift. I mean play it if you want for budget reasons but I would not expect to do well with it. If you want a good budget option I would highly suggest you play burn, the deck is good enough to just steal wins. Also a lot of modern decks right now, the good ones are at least, are actually amazingly weak to blood moon, the only problem is is that the decks that can run blood moon were either banned (Storm) or aren't very good (Twin).
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 21:14
|
|
|
Remand does ruin Living End like nobody's business. That's what the Ricochet Traps are for in the sideboard. God help you if you need to combo off and don't have the trap in hand.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 21:29
|
|
|
So since my deck of choice just got banned I think I'll go with American control in Portland. I'm going to start with the second place list from the last modern gp but I wanted peoples take: now that eggs is out of the picture is stony silence still worth it for hating on tron and affinity.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 22:20
|
|
|
Shavnir posted:So since my deck of choice just got banned I think I'll go with American control in Portland. I'm going to start with the second place list from the last modern gp but I wanted peoples take: now that eggs is out of the picture is stony silence still worth it for hating on tron and affinity. I'm not so sure on Affinity, don't you have the Bolts and Helixes to kill most of their creatures that are actually threatening? And definitely for Tron, that card's such a beating for them that I can't see getting rid of it if that match-up's problematic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 22:26
|
|
|
Sowing Salt gets played for Tron and U/W/x durdle decks so you can exile their Celestial Colonnades and make it difficult for them to kill you. Otherwise you should pack artifact hate anyway as it helps with Pod and random other decks, too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 22:32
|
|
|
Stony silence is not that great against Affinity, you'd rather just have Pyroclasm for affinity. Stony Silence still does something against birthing pod, but they usually have qasali pridemage and harmonic sliver (although those obviously get a lot worse when stony silence is in play). I would actually probably just play Wear//Tear if I were you in your board, although the enchantment destruction half is not super relevant I don't think. For tron I would just play Sowing Salts since thats also okay against Scapeshift. The big secret is that if you're playing against the Cryptic Command version of scapeshift is that if you exile Steam Vents or Stomping Ground it becomes much harder for them to kill you, you don't have to (and shouldn't) wait for a Valakut.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2013 22:41
|
|
|
Is modern masters designed to be a draftable set? Will that be the first time we've gotten to do a booster draft with an Eternal Format scope (rather than a cube)? Will it help decrease the price barrier-of-entry into Modern? I like modern but it's so expensive (like everything else in magic i guess), and I don't really want to spend all that money for a deck that wouldn't end up seeing that much use anyways (and would probably murder any of the decks my roommates and I have made), but an opportunity to draft an eternal format sounds cool at least.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 06:50
|
|
|
RME posted:Is modern masters designed to be a draftable set? Will that be the first time we've gotten to do a booster draft with an Eternal Format scope (rather than a cube)? Will it help decrease the price barrier-of-entry into Modern? I like modern but it's so expensive (like everything else in magic i guess), and I don't really want to spend all that money for a deck that wouldn't end up seeing that much use anyways (and would probably murder any of the decks my roommates and I have made), but an opportunity to draft an eternal format sounds cool at least. When I asked about it before someone said Wizards is making it to be draftable, but with the stories of low allocations doesn't seem like it will be possible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 07:02
|
|
|
There should be enough to go around that you should be able to draft it once or twice. There's also going to be a Modern Masters sealed Grand Prix.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 07:07
|
|
|
Star Man posted:I really can't think of a better reason for playing with Scion of Oona other than that I just like it*. I'm not going to say that this is bad since you're playing with powerful cards that can be quite useful, but I just don't see Fae as a more traditional tribal deck, or at least not without bitterblossom. Something like Elves wants lords because you are making GBS threads out 20 creatures and +1/+1 over 20 creatures is powerful. Merfolk wants lords because they can get 16 lords and have everyone be +3/+3, which is powerful. Fae have one lord, doesn't tend to flood the board and you're generally moving up to x/2, so your creatures still die in combat. The creatures are powerful enough as is that I think you're better off just accepting the synergies they have as a bonus. Here's an example of a UR Fae deck that placed, and I think it's basically something that I'd build. UR Faeries - Patrick Vicini
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 14:18
|
|
RME posted:Is modern masters designed to be a draftable set? Will that be the first time we've gotten to do a booster draft with an Eternal Format scope (rather than a cube)? Will it help decrease the price barrier-of-entry into Modern? I like modern but it's so expensive (like everything else in magic i guess), and I don't really want to spend all that money for a deck that wouldn't end up seeing that much use anyways (and would probably murder any of the decks my roommates and I have made), but an opportunity to draft an eternal format sounds cool at least. 1) Yes, draftable, enough so to schedule an entire GP for it. 2) On MTGO there were Masters Edition packs for drafts, to get legacy cards into the online pool. That's why this set is called Modern Masters, I presume. 3) Probably no. If anything, demand will outstrip supply making things even more expensive. Unless there's a block coming up that will reprint Modern fetchlands, expect the price to go up and up.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 14:57
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:Unless there's a block coming up that will reprint Modern fetchlands, expect the price to go up and up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 15:57
|
|
Tharizdun posted:Ironically, reprinting the fetches would cause the price of every other Modern staple to skyrocket (as more people have access to the manabase, they'll start trying to compete in the Modern sphere, driving up demand for all the cards) Nah, I don't buy this, unless they are reprinted in a normal set along with zero reprints like RTR block with the shocks and zero reprints happen ever again. First, the cost of playing in formats is driven by manabase costs. Second, Wizards has expressed interest in making this format their flagship baby, with reprints abound. There will never be enough lands printed to unbalance the staple card availability in the other direction. If you look at ranges of recent card price history, with respect to Modern seasons or news about Modern, the value of fetchlands have all outpaced the Modern staples (e.g. 200% price increase of Scalding Tarn versus 50% price increase of Tarmogoyf). This era right now is a transitional time. Wizards is testing the waters with this Modern Masters set. If it goes well, expect a Modern Masters 2 or a new set with fetches reprinted. If not, expect them all to be banned. But this transitional period is not sustainable.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 16:39
|
|
|
Why on earth would Wizards ban fetchlands when there are completely viable decks that don't use any like RG Tron?
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 16:47
|
|
|
Why would Wizards ban the fetchlands when they do not enable game winning combos too quickly or suppress the metagame?
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 16:59
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:Why on earth would Wizards ban fetchlands when there are completely viable decks that don't use any like RG Tron? That's a strawman argument, bannings don't require that non-viable decks without the card exist. They just banned a deck for taking too much time to play. They've already expressed their disinterest in excessive shuffling which takes too much time. If they aren't reprinted, they will be banned. I suppose another option is Wizards cuts support for the format as we know it, but that's the same as banning them.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 17:04
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:That's a strawman argument, bannings don't require that non-viable decks without the card exist. Searching up a land isn't really on the same timescale as "taking 15 minute turns".
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 17:11
|
|
|
I think "excessive shuffling" is defined by something more along the lines of turn 1 crack fetch, play ponder electing to shuffle, opponent cracks fetch at end of your turn. They take their turn and play Green Sun's Zenith. You take your second turn and play a Stoneforge Mystic. Outside of, say, a deck like legacy High Tide or Eggs. As it is now, with the ban of Second Sunrise hopefully deterring people form playing a worse version of Eggs, Modern has a pretty moderate amount of shuffling. I don't even feel as if Pod makes me want to kill myself compared to Eggs or Top. I think "they should ban fetches because they cause you to shuffle also they are expensive" is an incredibly weak argument. Read the original proposal for Modern: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/144 They ban slow cards that cause matches to go to time because it doesn't make for a fun format. I'm almost certain that playing 8 fetches per deck does nothing of the sort.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 17:22
|
|
|
Well time is just one of the reasons, of course. The reason fetches would be more and more expensive is because they are powerful and basically required for many manabases to work. When a land has the same powerlevel (and thus price) in a format as JaceTMS, then something is wrong, and that's what would happen to the price of fetches if they continue down this road without bannings or reprintings. It's not really a big deal, this is all just a thought experiment of a very peculiar set of conditions. Modern Masters will be a success, Modern Masters II/whatever set will provide fetches for all to promote the format, just like they are doing with shocks, and that's that.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 17:44
|
|
|
Reprints of the fetches are 1000000x more likely than a ban. If they could go back in time and not print the fetches, they might, but they've already been super loose with the banhammer, axing another large investment that modern players made would be the last straw for many, I'm guessing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:51 |
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:The reason fetches would be more and more expensive is because they are powerful and basically required for many manabases to work. Except, of course, the decks that don't use them. Or what about the decks which benefit from fetches specifically? Banning fetches would drastically hurt these archetypes, as they work much better with extra landfall or lands going to the graveyard. I can't find a variant of Zoo that doesn't have something that needs fetches to function.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 18:05
|
|