MTG Eternal Formats - Modern, Legacy and Vintage: This Thread scoops to Stifle

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > MTG Eternal Formats - Modern, Legacy and Vintage: This Thread scoops to Stifle

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

I'm not sure if this is cool with everyone, but can we try to get a list of people on MTGO who play Modern, along with their deck(s) of choice, and try to get some awesome Modern action going? failing that, we can write about our decks and our matchups as specialists.

MODO:
BigBoswell - Budget Living End

# ¿ Apr 22, 2013 07:35

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 02:21

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

Dickeye posted:

Now that Eggs (Best Deck Ever) is done, what's another relatively inexpensive combo deck in Modern? I need a new thing to build while sobbing over the shattered remains of Eggs.

Living End is a pretty fun deck that can do work. If I ever get to stop taking tests, I'll try and post some information about it.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2013 20:03

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

Sure, I guess I'll go ahead and faux-primer this. Here's my current decklist. I still tinker with it here and there.

Living End

Deck: Living End

//Spells
3 Living End
3 Beast Within
4 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Jund Charm

//Creatures
2 Architects of Will
4 Street Wraith
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Deadshot Minotaur
2 Valley Rannet
2 Pale Recluse
2 Jungle Weaver
2 Avalanche Riders

//Land
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
3 Dragonskull Summit
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Forest

//Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Brindle Boar
3 Ricochet Trap
4 Ingot Chewer

Display deck statistics

Living End is a combo deck originally crafted Travis Woo. The basic focus is to cycle creatures into the graveyard and cascade into a Living End to plop them all onto the battlefield. This is a really fun T2 deck that can snag games from pretty much any creature based deck. Control matches are tough, but winnable. I personally have only played against the Eggs combo, which is now presumably dead, so I can't comment on that.

Core of the Deck:
As stated above, the goal of the deck is to hit Living End. We prefer to hit it with the two cascade spells Violent Outburst and Demonic Dread. Both are 3cc spells while Living End is a 0cc spell, which means that we have to be creative with how we build the deck. No spells of 1cc or 2cc are allowed. Our trick is to hit Living End with the cascade spells, instantly casting it, rather than waiting for the suspend. Violent Outburst is the better card, as it is an instant, so we can cast it at the end of our opponent's turn, or during a combat phase, or after they pump their infect creature, etc. Demonic Dread is less efficient, as it is a sorcery, and you need a target. These targets are provided for us by our opponents having creatures in play, playing Dryad Arbor, or playing Beast Within on something. If worst comes to worst, you can simply suspend Living End, and watch as your opponents misplay around it.

Cyclers:
So, we play 4 of Monstrous Carabid, Deadshot Minotaur, and Street Wraith. Monstrous Carabid and Deadshot Minotaur are 1 mana cyclers with casting costs in our colors, so we can cast them if need be. Street Wraith is a 2 life cycler in our colors, which is awesome. We play 4 of each because they are the backbone of the deck. Cycling both allows us to fill the graveyard and get to our cascade/Living End spells quicker. Note: be careful with cycling Street Wraiths against certain decks as the life loss can quickly lose you a game. Architects of Will is a one mana cycler, but if you absolutely need to cast it, you can't because it is blue. Also, it only has 3 toughness, which is the bane of Valley Rannet below. That's probably why you don't see many of them. I'm playing 2 because I want to be more consistent, and the effect once it hits the field can win the game by keeping the opponent off wraths for a few turns. Next, you have Jungle Weaver, which is a 2 colorless mana cycler. This guy is beefy with reach, and will lock down a game a surprising amount of the time once he hits the field. You won't see him as a 4-of in lists because 2 mana is a lot for just cycling, but he is powerful and will shut down pretty much any flier. Lastly, we have the land cyclers Pale Recluse and Valley Rannet. You'll notice that we're only playing around 20 land, which is a bit low. So, we need some dudes to go fetch land for us. Honestly, if you can afford all of the shocks, Pale Recluse is the card you want to be running. He's a 4/5 Reach that can fetch any Forest/X Shockland or Dryad Arbor, so he fixes your mana and is a respectable body. Valley Rannet can fetch any mountain or forest, but his 3 toughness makes him weak to most creatures, Bolt, Lightning Helix, and yeah you get the point. I only run him because I don't have Shocks, and I need the consistency.

Other Awesome Creatures:
1st up is Fulminator Mage, which I don't have only because he is expensive. The deck originally used land destruction as a means to slow decks down enough to force the combo through, and this was our ace in the hole. If you can afford him, run him. Otherwise, the deck can still win, but it won't be as powerful. Along with that theme, Avalanche Riders is the closet thing to Fulminator Mage we've got. You're able to shut a lot of decks down by popping a land or two, so we can do work, but I'm honestly trying to decide how much I like him. He's probably even more awesome in conjunction with Fulminator Mage, but I'm not sure. Next, we have Faerie Macabre. Sometimes, we have to kill creatures. This chick allows us to keep those creatures off board once they hit the bin, which is awesome. Also, it can shut down Snapcaster targets, Gifts targets, Reanimator targets, etc. It's a solid card, but it has anti-synergy with Deadshot Minotaur, and it doesn't actively push us closer to cascading, so I keep mine in the SB. I may come back to them MD, but we'll see. Some people play Ingot Chewer MD, but that's a meta call. For an all around deck, I keep mine in the SB because it could be a dead card, and again, it isn't pushing me closer to cascading. I'm probably missing stuff here, but oh well.

Other Spells:
Beast Within is our answer to everything. Troublesome creatures? Manlands? Opponents missing land drops? Artifacts and Enchantments? Everything. You don't care about giving them a beast, because it'll pop once we hit Living End. One of my favorite plays is to Beast Within a land on the end of their turn, and they have to either let it hit or use a counterspell, and that opens us up to combo freely on their turn, potentially putting them down a land. Worst case scenario, you can hit your own land to push through a final bit of damage or give yourself a Demonic Dread target. Jund Charm is a pretty awesome swiss army knife for us. Sometimes a Pyroclasm is what we need to survive for a bit. The main function is to exile their GY, either to clear the way for our Living End, or to deny them GY shenanigans like Snapcaster, Rites, etc. The 2 +1/+1 counters is also relevant for screwing combat math and pushing through the last bit of damage. In my list, you'll see Gnaw to the Bone, which I picked up from some random MTGO daily. Since we just cycle for the first 2-3 turns, we are really soft to quick aggro decks like Affinity or RDW. Gnaw allows us to stabilize, and then combo after they've emptied their hands. They're still risky games, but it's a nice tool to have just in case.

Land:
Optimal lists use the Jund colored Shocks, and 4 Verdant Catacombs with the Jund colored Scars fastlands and a Dryad Arbor. You need to be able to produce colored mana as soon as you make a land drop, as we are very color dependent. The Dryad Arbor is useful to bring in as a blocker, or more importantly, a target for Demonic Dread on an empty board. The Verdant Catacombs fetches pretty much anything we need, including the Dryad Arbor. The fastlands allow us to make our first 3 turns even more consistent, and the Shocks are obvious. A lot of people run Temple Gardens to hardcast Pale Recluse and maybe Leyline of Sanctity from the board, which is fine. Some people run a Raging Ravine or a Kessig Wolfrun, which I haven't tested because I already run a suboptimal mana base.

Sideboard:
Our SB is wildly dependent on the meta. I could probably take a few pages and go over all of the SB options, but I don't feel like taking that time. So, I'll explain my SB, and leave you with the reminder that your spells must cost 3 or more, so that you still hit your Living End on cascade.
4 Leyline of the Void - Gifts, Eggs, anything that depends on the graveyard
2 Faerie Macabre - More help with the GY hate, since if they go off, I probably lose the game
4 Ingot Chewer - Stops artifact based GY hate and Affinity
3 Ricochet Trap - Stops countermagic for a bit

I may add more to this later like the matchups I've seen, and how to beat Living End, but I think this is enough for now. Let me know if you have any questions.

Tharizdun, you can link this post in the OP if you feel confident in it.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2013 22:12

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

What is a good Burn decklist?

# ¿ May 12, 2013 22:37

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

Shavnir posted:

I'll write one up when I get around to it, but the thread mostly seems to be about discussing fringe decks.

What? No. I would love to read first hand experience about top tier decks as well. I play Living End because I am a poor college student. I presume all of the talk of other fringe decks are related to budget concerns as well. So, if you have the means to play top notch decks, please tell us about them. It may convince us to start building toward those decks.

# ¿ May 15, 2013 22:42

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

ChewyLSB posted:

Personally I made a post about Top 8'ing a PTQ with Scapeshift and it seemed like it was thoroughly ignored for fringe deck talk so I kind of stopped following this thread.

VV I wasn't saying scapeshift was fringe at all? Actually I was saying literally the exact opposite?

Well, let me fix that.
I'm assuming that you're Curtis, as it's in Pennslyvania, and I know that you're a Steelers/Penn State fan.

1. Is the Clutch of the Undercity standard tech in the deck? I like that it fetches both Scapeshift and Cryptic. I assume that the Watery Grave is in to hard cast it, so how often does that come up?
2. Are Firespout, Sakura Tribe Elder, and to a lesser degree, Izzet Charm your only tools for holding aggro back? How does that work for you?
3. What decks are you strong/weak against? You mentioned that you were strong against Jund.
4. What can a deck do to you that just throws a wrench in your plan?

# ¿ May 16, 2013 01:50

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

ChewyLSB posted:

It seems like the lists that have been doing well recently haven't been playing the clutch in the undercity but I'm actually kind of a big fan of the black splash. One of the great things is that it advances the 'one card combo' of scapeshift since on 7 mana you can go Clutch of the Undercity Scapeshift kill you. I actually ended up returning a surprisingly high number of permanents to their owner's hands with Clutch of the Undercity. End of turn returning Leyline of Sanctity to your opponent's hand untapping and scapeshifting was a classic play when I was playing during that PTQ season. Granted, Cryptic Command can do the same thing but I ended up casting Clutch of the Undercity way more than I expected, including killing a Living End player with it after he Beast Within'd one of my lands and I attacked him for 15 with the beast token which was just hilarious.

The other benefit the black splash gets you is that you get to play Slaughter Games in the board which is great. Its not as great now since a lot of the combo decks are banned but it used to be great against Eggs. Its still good against some combo decks and the mirror, of course, and I in fact even added a second Slaughter Games to the board after that PTQ.

I honestly never really had that much trouble with aggro. At PTQ's I'm much more worried about burn which is what the spellskites are for. I switched from Pyroclasm to Firespout because the Gruul Aggro deck was really popular at the time I was playing in PTQ's. I actually didn't really have much trouble with aggro, although I only played against Affinity a handful of times but I won all my matches against them. I actually realized I had too much of a sideboard for affinity in the PTQ I top 8'd, beacause I last minute shoved Ancient Grudge into my deck to replace Mindbreak Trap because storm had just been banned. Then I Peer Through Depths'd during the game and pulled something like Land Creeping Corrosion Firespout Ancient Grudge Cryptic Command. It was at that moment I realized I had way too much of a sideboard for affinity haha, and after that I cut a creeping Corrosion for the second Slaughter Games.

If aggro is a problem I would probably add Lightning Bolts and Snapcaster Mages to my deck. I would probably cut Serum Visions from my deck the next time I play this deck because honestly the card underperformed a bit for me. I ended up shuffling a lot since this deck shuffles pretty much every turn given the 10 or so ramp effects in the deck + four fetchlands. If I wasn't going to add Lightning Bolt I would probably add Worldy Counsel, I was actually considering replacing Peer through Depths with Worldly Counsel anyways, but mostly because I wanted to try the card out.

The original reason I built the deck was because it was good against Jund, but of course Blood Braid Elf was banned, not that Jund didn't stop being a deck. Honestly I didn't feel like I couldn't win any matchup, mostly because the deck can just ramp to 7 and win anyways.

Some of the weaker matchups are probably the hexproof deck and infect since you're leaning pretty hard on Firespout against them and especially against boggled enchantments they run out of Firespout range pretty quickly.

Twin can be a problem because some of the decks maindeck Blood Moon, but you have a lot of basics anyways so you want to do the old Cryptic Command/Clutch of the Undercity end of turn then scapeshift combo. On the other hand you know exactly how Twin Wins so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Aggro matchups like affinity in general can be a little annoying since you're leaning really hard on Firespout and affinity plays that stupid regenerating artifact card sometimes. Fortunately aggro decks are not that great in modern right now besides Affinity so its not exactly a huge deal.

As I said before though you can just end up stealing a bunch of wins with this deck since you can just get to 7 mana and win anyways. Like I managed to beat UW Control at the PTQ even though my opponent drew like a million cards with Jace because I just in general don't really care how many cards you have.

The main cards to worry about are Aven Mindcensor, Leyline of Sanctity, and Slaughter Games. The only deck that plays Mindcensor is UWR, so you always have to keep that card in mind, and if you're going for the scapeshift win either have izzet charm or remand or just hope they don't have it. Unfortunately remand is not that great against Mindcensor. The other option is to get to 8 and have cryptic/clutch of the undercity.

Leyline of Sanctity is played a bit more, and UWR can also play this card. Unfortunately since Scapeshift just did pretty well at portland I could see a lot more decks starting to pack Leyline of Sanctity. Against Leyline you're hoping to do Clutch/Cryptic EOT untap scapeshift. If they ever have two in play well then your life just got a lot harder.

Slaughter Games isn't actually a huge concern since Jund seems to be on the downturn but Slaughter Games is the reason I have Wurmcoil Engine in the sideboard. Jund is a deck you have to consider though since obviously people will play it.

Some people think lifegain is great against Scapeshift and while its true that 7 lands is 18 damage people forget that 8 lands is 36 damage, and the only deck that can possibly gain that much life is Martyr Proc, so its really not a big deal. Like I played against someone who was 'making sure his life didn't go below 18' and then I just ramped to 8 and killed him anyways.

One thing to remember is that people can Tectonic Edge a steam vents in response to triggers so you have to make sure that you can kill them through that, because the valakut triggers won't happen if you don't have enough mountains.

Speaking of which, another card to somewhat worry about is Sowing Salts. A lot of people play Sowing Salts really incorrectly against Valakut, though, and especially against this version of the deck (the Cryptic Command version versus the Primeval Titan version), Sowing Salts'ing a Steam Vents or a Stomping ground is just as good as getting a Valakut. Sowing Salts is also not that great to be honest though against Valakut since you can just counterspell the Sowing Salts, but UWR brings it in just because they have so many cards they want to take out anyways.

The cards I would consider adding and cutting for Valakut are Snapcaster Mage, Lightning Bolt, and Worldly Counsel. Like I said I would consider cutting Serum Visions. Another card I was considering was Edge of Autumn to replace Farseek to counter Sowing Salts but as I mentioned I don't even think Sowing Salts is that great against Valakut anyways.

I think the deck is actually really strong right now, and a really great option for anyone who wants to do a modern event. The lack of aggro in the format makes Scapeshift great, I think.

Now this is an awesome post. You're all-in with the combo kill game 1. What match-ups prompt you to bring in the second wincon, Wurmcoil Engine?
As a Living End player, I think I'm going to throw Sowing Salts in my SB for this and Tron matchups. Any general thoughts on this?

# ¿ May 16, 2013 21:08

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

Shavnir posted:

Stuff.

How did the Ajani and Gideon treat you? The only planeswalker I see with any regularity is Lilly.

# ¿ May 17, 2013 20:48

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

jassi007 posted:

So, if you had a friend who has some $$ and is willing to buy into modern, what would you suggest? Melira pod? Affinity? BUG Infect?

If you're talking buckoos of bucks, Jund. It gets you most of the staples of the format, so you can switch decks at will. If you're not talking a grand, I'd look at Scapeshift. ChewyLSB had some great posts in this thread about the deck. Otherwise, Melira or Jiki Pod seem like good options.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 18:35

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

ScarletBrother posted:

How viable is that Living End list? I'm looking to build another deck and it looks pretty cheap since I already have the fetches.

The more creature dependent the format, the better it gets. It rolls to anything that plays a lot of counters and Tron. It's a fun list for sure.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2013 03:13

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

C-Euro posted:

If I wanted to maybe get into Modern (or at least build a couple of halfway-decent Modern decks to whip out at the LGS once or twice a month), but haven't really played or purchased Magic products since Mirrodin Block Pt. 1, what would be the best way to build up a card stockpile to do that? I figured I could start by seeing which cards from my old collection got reprinted post-8th Edition so I know what I have to work with, but I feel like at some point I'll just have to pick a deck/archetype that I like and buy some of the key singles, not to mention the money needed for a competitive manabase (hurry up and reprint the allied fetchlands Wizards, I actually have some of those! ) FWIW I bought a U/R pre-con from one of the recent coresets on a lark and played around with tweaking its contents, so maybe I'll start with that?

Honestly, you probably just want to buy into a deck. From there, I would start picking up staples.
- Shocklands
- Fetchlands
- Scars fastlands
- Snapcaster Mage
- Tarmogoyf
- Dark Confidant
- Thoughtseize
- Path to Exile
- Kiki-Jiki
- Vendillion Clique
- Cryptic Command
- Remand
etc.

Burn is always a good choice to buy into. Living End is also a pretty fun deck, but it can be hated out pretty easily. You may also want to look into Mono-Blue Tron.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2013 09:06

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 02:21

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

Mae posted:

To those who play gifts: can you list off a couple of situations I should know how to gifts out of, and a couple of example packages? Thank you!

I'm not a Gifts player, but when playing Gifts, you can grab just 2 cards, "fail" to find 2 other cards, and your opponent has to dump those in the graveyard. So for instance, if you were playing an aggro match, you could Gifts for just an Elesh Norn and a Wurmcoil Engine, and your opponent has to choose those 2 to bin. Next turn, you could Rites one of them. You probably already knew this, but it's nice to know anyway.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 00:01

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