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Interesting answers, thanks. Have you ever installed any kind of countermeasures that did anything but keep people out? Like things that weren't totally defensive, like traps or incapacitating gas or something along those lines? Are those even A Thing at all?
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Jun 4, 2013 07:30
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themrguy posted:Interesting answers, thanks. They're not a thing in general due to liability issues because the chance of someone working somewhere failing to enter an alarm code an triggering an alarm is always greater than actual B&E. Some lethal defensive security measures have been around at various points and various installations in history, but generally speaking, they're not a thing. Unless you count cheap systems that spray out OC when a motion sensor is triggered. And I wouldn't get one of those, motion detectors are rather notorious about giving false alarms.
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Jun 4, 2013 12:43
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themrguy posted:Interesting answers, thanks. I'm kind of confused as to why anyone would want to do this. Technically speaking, any form of trap is physical security (landmines, for instance), but typically you wouldn't want to hurt people, just keep them out. The only exception to this in the commercial space (outside of research facilities that can and do use lethal force) is probably a man trap, but that just keeps them there until they can be arrested (or let out in the case of a false positive). I actually do a lot of systems for power substations, and the alarm goes to both the police and the local hospital, since one of their big goals for the system was to keep people from getting hurt if they break in. If you really want to shoot bullets/teargas/beanbags at intruders, this is your guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_SGR-A1 Slanderer posted:EDIT: Nowadays, you'd want to use an encoder to bring them on the network and treat them like IP cameras. You could probably do a no-frills encoding solution for around $100/channel. I still get requests for big matrix switchers and multiplexers on occasion, but I don't even care to stock multiplexers larger than a 4 channel. Those builds are a nightmare. KillHour fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 14:23
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Slanderer posted:uh.... In function it's similar to the automated smoke systems that discharge to obscure the area being attacked. Those are being widely sold. http://www.bandituk.co.uk/ I found some stand alone models, but these look pretty cheap. http://burglarbomb.com
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Jun 4, 2013 22:19
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JohnnyRnR posted:In function it's similar to the automated smoke systems that discharge to obscure the area being attacked. Those are being widely sold. http://www.bandituk.co.uk/ Pepper spray or a fog machine isn't nearly on the same level as tear gas. I have a feeling that that pepper spray system could open you up to a lawsuit, as well.
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Jun 4, 2013 23:52
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KillHour posted:This might be more along the lines of what you're looking for: Yeah, that looks like the sort of thing I was thinking of. Cheers!
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Jun 5, 2013 10:27
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Look Ma, I stopped procrastinating! (Not really, I'm supposed to be doing laundry) RFID cards part II: The part of an RFID system that gives it its name is the communication between the card/tag and the reader. This communication typically happens on 1 of 2 frequencies: 125khz and 13.56mhz. A 125kHz card, also known as a "Prox" card, is extremely simple: The reader puts out a wireless pulse several times per second (5 is common), which is picked up by the antenna embedded in the card.  You can tell by the shape of the antenna that this is a 13.56mhz card, but prox looks similar, just with a bigger antenna This pulse is enough to power the chip for the fraction of a second it needs to transmit the stored credential over the same antenna, which is then picked up by the reader. For Prox cards, this information is in plain text, which is then sent to the controller to match it up against the database. For this reason, 125khz cards are considered inherently insecure. Anyone can clone a card just by getting a reader within a 6-15 inches of your wallet. 13.56mhz cards come in several different formats, but the general idea is the same. Before the card sends the data, there is a mutual authentication step, which works like this: Reader sends card a pseudo-random number. Card responds with an "answer" based on a cryptographic algorithm (each vendor uses a different protocol for this), along with a different pseudo-random number. The reader will then send the answer for the second problem back to the card, and the card will respond with the authentication information (still in plain text) back to the reader. The authentication information is secure, even if it is in plain text, because the card will refuse to send the information if the reader does not correctly authenticate. Likewise, the reader will refuse to accept the information if the card does not correctly authenticate. All 125khz cards and readers should be compatible, because the information is in plain text with no authentication. 13.56mhz cards need to match up with their readers (iClass with iClass, MiFare with MiFare, DESFire with DESFire, etc.), because the authentication mechanisms need to match. There used to be another communication method (confusingly called Wiegand) but it's not commonly used any more, unlike the other 2 Wiegands. Still with me? Good. Now, when the reader gets the information from the card, it doesn't know what to do with it. It has to pass the information down to the controller. Unlike with the reader, the information needs to be on the card in a format the controller can understand. This is a bit tricky, since there are literally 10's of thousands of different formats out there. Formats themselves are pretty simple, however. They are a series of binary numbers, generally between 26 and 64 bits long. Here is an example of the most common format (again, confusingly called Wiegand): PFFFFFFFFNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNP Each letter is either a 0 or a 1, meaning Wiegand is a 26 bit format. The F's are what is called a Facility Code. In 26 bit Wiegand format, the facility code is a number between 0 and 255. This number is most often used to distinguish what location the card originated at (For instance, if you have 4 offices in your corporation, each office might have a different facility code to distinguish them). The N's are called the Card Number. These are between 0 and 65535. People typically start at 0 and work their way up as they need more cards. The P's are Parity Bits. Parity Bits allow the system to ensure that the message was received correctly. The system does this by counting all the 1's in the pattern, adding the parity bit, and determining whether the number is even or odd. The first Parity Bit (or Leading Parity) is applied to the first 13 bits, and will always make the number even, and the last Parity Bit (or Trailing Parity) is applied to the last 13 bits, and will always make the number odd. So for instance, if I had a card with a Facility code of 3, and a card number of 20, the encoding would look like this: code:When you add the first 13 digits together, the number is even, and when you add the last 13 digits together, the number is odd. Other formats may or may not have a Facility Code, and may have other properties, depending on who designed it. I'm sure this is clear as mud, so feel free to ask questions for clarification.
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Jun 9, 2013 03:23
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HID (https://www.hidglobal.com/) is the 300-pound gorilla of the EAC world. The 26-bit format outlined above was what they went with for the first 125kHz systems to promote backward compatibility with the Wiegand systems that used the wires embedded in cards to generate 1s and 0s, and we've retained the 26-bit format due to simple inertia. Interestingly they are one of the successor pieces of Howard Hughes's business empire.
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Jun 9, 2013 14:41
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What rules and regulations if any governs the deployment of cameras in your part of the world ?. Here in Northern Europe, it's fairly strict. All security camera installations have to be registered with a central government agency, signs warning about the installation must be provided and strictly speaking if your camera sees into public spaces that must be masked out, as only the state from counties and up are allowed to monitor that. No recordings can be stored more than 7 days, unless a crime has been recorded, then no more that 30 days, and so forth. The public places bit and storage part is usually the most sinned against. With hilarious result like the police dragging their feet in getting the recordings, showing up after 40 days, getting the recording and then fining the operator.
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Jun 11, 2013 00:16
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1550NM posted:What rules and regulations if any governs the deployment of cameras in your part of the world ?. Here in Northern Europe, it's fairly strict. All security camera installations have to be registered with a central government agency, signs warning about the installation must be provided and strictly speaking if your camera sees into public spaces that must be masked out, as only the state from counties and up are allowed to monitor that. No recordings can be stored more than 7 days, unless a crime has been recorded, then no more that 30 days, and so forth. In the US, recordings without audio are usually allowed in any area without a reasonable expectation of privacy. Reasonable expectation of privacy is usually defined as "I could undress or change here and expect not to be seen naked." There is no central registry of surveillance systems. You can go to Cosco and buy a (crappy) surveillance system and put it on the outside of your house facing the street, for instance. In fact, that's extremely common. Most states don't require that you notify people that you are recording them, and I've never heard of a maximum allowable retention time. Many states actually require a minimum retention time for certain areas (typically prisons). Audio is significantly trickier, as it falls under wire-tapping laws and notification is generally required, at a minimum. As an example: I have a camera outside my apartment window looking at the nearest intersection that I swap out when I want to test a new camera. I generally keep low frame-rate recordings for 2 months, or so (It overwrites old footage when it gets past 3TB). Again, I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. KillHour fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jun 11, 2013 |
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Jun 11, 2013 01:09
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Quite the difference then, the reasons that we have these regulations over here is that back in the late seventies, just as digital databases and cross referencing started to be viable formed, an agency to overlook how the data was used. Most of the time it's a great bulwark against misuse of data, be that things collected from access control, surveillance, gps tracking or the other myriad of ways you could be traced. Not surprisingly they seem to loving loathe Google and Facebook.
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Jun 11, 2013 23:26
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1550NM posted:Quite the difference then, the reasons that we have these regulations over here is that back in the late seventies, just as digital databases and cross referencing started to be viable formed, an agency to overlook how the data was used. Most of the time it's a great bulwark against misuse of data, be that things collected from access control, surveillance, gps tracking or the other myriad of ways you could be traced. In the US, we tend to have a much different view on privacy. Honestly, I feel safer knowing that not all surveillance has government oversight, as I trust the government and the police force a hell of a lot less than I do the guy with a few cameras outside his grocery store. I have a feeling privacy laws like that are going to have to loosen up, because they will eventually become unenforceable.
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Jun 12, 2013 00:14
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Well, privacy expectations here are much much greater, even in public. Hell there's been outcry against motion triggered wildlife cameras recently, because even in the depth of the woods you cant expect to not be seen. But the rules are loosening up, albeit only a little, mostly because how people use new technology. Edit: All of which makes sure that trying to sell surveillance equipment is interesting, because people would like to see, but not be seen.
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Jun 12, 2013 00:24
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KillHour posted:Pepper spray or a fog machine isn't nearly on the same level as tear gas. I have a feeling that that pepper spray system could open you up to a lawsuit, as well. Just want to point out that pepper spray/Oleoresin Capsicum/OC and tear gas/CS/CN(Mace)really are on the same level. Wisconsin is the only state that I can recall that completely bans the use of CS/CN gas. A lot of the good "pepper spray" products are a OC/CN combo. The legality of the fogging system alarms in America interests me; I've only seen them advertised on foreign sites. Have you ever seen a system installed?
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Jun 15, 2013 09:40
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Are there any reasonably priced outdoor IP cameras which are sensitive to the no-glow 940/950nm IR illuminators ? I've seen some analogue cameras listed as sensitive, but it doesn't seem to be the sort of thing listed in the specs for IP cameras.
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Jun 16, 2013 08:03
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Ages ago, I read that back in the ties of dial-up some ISP (I think in America) was forced to use some sort of surveillance software by the government. It slowed things down too much or something. I've read about it on wikipedia before, but my google-fu is lacking and I can't find any more on it.  It's mostly a curiosity thing. Anyone know the one?
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Jun 16, 2013 09:42
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You mentioned earlier in the thread that aside from finger/handprint, vascular, and retinal/iris readers, there were some other less common types of biometric security. Could you go into more details about what else there is? The only other one that springs to mind for me is possibly blood/DNA recognition but that seems unrealistic and invasive, given how long a DNA test takes in a lab setting.
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Jun 16, 2013 12:29
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MisterOblivious posted:Just want to point out that pepper spray/Oleoresin Capsicum/OC and tear gas/CS/CN(Mace)really are on the same level. Wisconsin is the only state that I can recall that completely bans the use of CS/CN gas. A lot of the good "pepper spray" products are a OC/CN combo. I've never seen an OC system installed in a house. I think the legality issue would be because it's much harder to say you used it in self-defense when it gets set off automatically on an alarm system rather than by you personally. If you weren't home and it went off, there obviously was no chance of imminent bodily harm, but (again), I'm not a lawyer. Also, having it go off on a false alarm would suck. A lot. Baconroll posted:Are there any reasonably priced outdoor IP cameras which are sensitive to the no-glow 940/950nm IR illuminators ? I've seen some analogue cameras listed as sensitive, but it doesn't seem to be the sort of thing listed in the specs for IP cameras. Sensitivity to a wavelength isn't an on/off type thing, it's a curve. I don't think I've come across a camera that had good 850nm sensitivity, but couldn't see ANY 950nm light. At 950nm, the camera will be less sensitive, though, so you will probably need brighter IR-LEDs. There may be exceptions to this since 950nm is a pretty niche market, and I don't have a ton of experience in it. Most people WANT intruders to know they're being recorded. The dull red glow does a surprising amount for deterrence. the_lion posted:Ages ago, I read that back in the ties of dial-up some ISP (I think in America) was forced to use some sort of surveillance software by the government. It slowed things down too much or something. I've never heard of this, honestly. Google didn't pull anything up for me, either. LegatusP posted:You mentioned earlier in the thread that aside from finger/handprint, vascular, and retinal/iris readers, there were some other less common types of biometric security. Could you go into more details about what else there is? The only other one that springs to mind for me is possibly blood/DNA recognition but that seems unrealistic and invasive, given how long a DNA test takes in a lab setting. Ever hear of "Skin Spectroscopy"? Didn't think so. There are a ton of biometric systems that have never been commercialized. Most of them are behavior-based (Identifying someone by their specific walk gait, signature, speech patterns, etc.). I've run across systems inside man traps that measure your weight and make sure you're within 5% of what you were the last time you came through. Those are mostly to make sure you're not bringing someone else along with you or stealing equipment. There have been rumbles about using infrasonic waves to measure your "acoustic signature" (basically, how dense you are), as well as using microwave and millimeter-length scanners to measure your *ahem* body proportions under your clothes. I'm sure you've seen them if you've ever been to a major American airport: Millimeter scanner, possibly  for creepy 3d genitals.Microwave scanner, also  .Tons more, as well: http://fingerchip.pagesperso-orange.fr/biometrics/types.htm KillHour fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 16, 2013 |
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Jun 16, 2013 16:57
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Heh, I was just coming in here to ask about proxcards. My firm is moving into a new office, and we own the building. We do not have any sort of super-sensitive information or highly valuable goods or anything like that. Is it worthwhile for us to use a proxcard system for easy access? And, generally speaking, what's the ballpark on the price difference between a 125khz and 13.56mhz system/cards? I realize you probably don't want to give away company info, so really I'm just asking if we're talking, like, 20-30%, or 500-600%?
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Jun 19, 2013 16:55
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For the systems that I have available, about 30% for the readers, and about 90% premium for the cards.
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Jun 19, 2013 18:16
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Thanatosian posted:Heh, I was just coming in here to ask about proxcards. 13.56mhz systems (from HID, at least) are less expensive, as the cards are cheaper to produce (smaller antennas, less copper). Some companies charge a premium based on their added security, but companies that go by a flat margin would not. Here's an example I found on Google (Not my company, never worked with them): Prox: $3.66/card iClass: $2.76/card Prox: $82.84/reader iClass: $79.00/reader All HID cards have a minimum order quantity of 100 (cards are made to order and cannot be returned). 1550NM posted:For the systems that I have available, about 30% for the readers, and about 90% premium for the cards.  I hope your customers don't go window shopping. KillHour fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 19:37
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Well, I was mayhap a bit quick on the pricing, as I went for the cheapest Mifare and 125khz prox card in my catalogue. If you go for matching capabilities say 1k rom, R/W able etc, the 125khz is as you say slightly more expensive. The readers still command a premium over here for some reason tough.
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Jun 19, 2013 21:57
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So, I'm gonna ask what are probably a few really stupid questions: For both the iClass and Prox systems, are those cards programmable, or do they come pre-programmed and are locked in? When you say "reader," is that just a reader that will need to be installed (presumably by a professional) and wired to a lock, wham bam thank you ma'am, or does that need to be hooked into some kind of centralized system? And do both/either system have the capability to lock out individual cards that are lost or stolen? I've never really done this before, if that's not obvious.
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Jun 19, 2013 22:35
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KillHour posted:Now, when the reader gets the information from the card, it doesn't know what to do with it. It has to pass the information down to the controller. Unlike with the reader, the information needs to be on the card in a format the controller can understand. This is a bit tricky, since there are literally 10's of thousands of different formats out there. Formats themselves are pretty simple, however. They are a series of binary numbers, generally between 26 and 64 bits long. Looks right, though I've always read odd parity/even parity (in reference to those bits). I wrote a little Python script to convert the number on the back of HID 125kHz cards to the raw hexadecimal value needed for an Edge controller which I could share if people want. I upgraded a student house of mine recently on the cheap, so I eBay'd ES400 controllers + RP15 readers (125kHz to work with university credentials, 13.56MHz to work with iClass/corporate creds) and installed them myself. There wasn't a low cost / free networked solution I could find, so I kind of have this convoluted thing where I make all the changes to one ES400 and then export a "backup", decode/parse the file to only retain relevant parts + update checksum, and then import to the other one. For some of the less critical doors inside, I just rigged up a Raspberry Pi to a RP15 (found a lot of them for like $60/pc) for a really cheap and still easy-to-manage solution. It runs Linux so some simple scripting + SSH results in a fairly easy, secure way to do access control. It is such a pain in the rear end to navigate HID's poo poo website and get any relevant information from them if you're not an "installer". Have to get everything surplus / from shady Google Store seller / eBay Thanatosian posted:So, I'm gonna ask what are probably a few really stupid questions: Prox cards come pre-programmed from HID. Technically you're supposed to have authentication/paperwork on file with HID that says you are from X Company and you need cards ordered with your facility code (if you've sprung for that). Otherwise, you can buy tubes of fobs / stacks of cards that may or may not match your existing facility code and manually manage that. In my case, I got a stack of 20 cards & 50 fobs or so that I added manually one at a time (  ) before switching to a nice Ethernet controllable system and having a script that could generate the card # from the digits on the back.Pretty sure iClass are factory-programmed as well. I like handing out iClass credentials to residents if needed because it won't interfere with the regular 125kHz credentials a lot of them carry around. To me, readers do one thing: they generate the field to read data from a card through whatever mechanism (legacy 125kHz, smart 13.56MHz, whatever) and provide an output: the data stored on the card, usually some number. This gets passed on to a controller of some type through various ways; like OP mentioned, it could be via Wiegand to a controller, or RS-232, or CAN, or whatever. The controller than does the logic of "hey, do I let card 1234 in at x location on y time?" and triggers some door strike if needed. The big $$$$ comes in super networked, centralized systems that allow easy management of the controller side of things. I think the real nice ones have Active Directory integration and stuff. KillHour: I've thought about ages trying to build/sell my own super low-cost controller but I feel like HID/Honeywell/etc are the go-to for businesses because they've got the bucks to spend, true? movax fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 22:50
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Hrm. Tyco bought Exacq. $150 million so they can drive it into the ground.
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Jun 19, 2013 23:46
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Thomamelas posted:Hrm. Tyco bought Exacq. $150 million so they can drive it into the ground. I read about this yesterday. I carry Exacq and compete with Tyco, so this is going to be interesting, to say the least. Rolling your own SHOULDN'T be hard to do; controllers are pretty simple. The problem is that unlike IT, security integrators stick to names they know and are very stubborn fanboys. If you're doing the installs, though, it's not like the end user is going to know the difference. For a cheap prebuilt networked solution, I'm fond of Geovision: http://www.usavisionsys.com/mirror/english/3_1_AS.html If you shop around, you can probably get the GV-AS400, which handles 4 doors and 8 readers, for around 400 bucks. Software's free for up to 4 controllers, so you can do a pretty basic 16 door system for around 100 bucks/door plus readers and cards. If you only need ingress protection, the GV-AS810 will do 8 doors and 8 readers for around 650-700 bucks, bringing the maximum number of doors to 32 with the free software. You're a little mistaken about the way the cards are programmed, though. You don't need to have special authorization to order any cards you want from HID, you just need to get them through a distributor (if you're an integrator) or reseller (if you're an end-user). The exception to this is Corporate 1000, which does need to be set up by HID. Here's the HID ordering form for Prox cards, for instance: https://www.hidglobal.com/sites/hidglobal.com/files/resource_files/d00530-b.9.3-125_khz-physical-access-htog-en.pdf Technically, you CAN order plain prox cards and program them yourself with a 3rd party programmer, since HID's patent on prox cards expired. iClass can be ordered un-programmed as well, but the only way to program them AFAIK is to lease a programmer from HID, which is extremely expensive, and the programmer is locked down to hell and back. As an aside: HID does not make controllers for more than one door. They have their single door system, but they don't talk to each other. They don't want to step on the toes of the controller manufacturers. KillHour fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 14:49
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KillHour posted:I read about this yesterday. I carry Exacq and compete with Tyco, so this is going to be interesting, to say the least. Yeah, we compete with Exacq and this is going to be interesting. Given the annoyance the caused by switching over to distribution only, I wonder how many more of their dealers they are going to drive away by being part of Tyco. I'm also curious if this will impact the Aviligion/ADT deal. And of course where does this leave American Dynamics.
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Jun 20, 2013 17:16
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Thomamelas posted:Yeah, we compete with Exacq and this is going to be interesting. Given the annoyance the caused by switching over to distribution only, I wonder how many more of their dealers they are going to drive away by being part of Tyco. It's going to be interesting. We're a distributor, so the distribution only move was good for us, but this Tyco thing is going to make it  .Maybe they're just going to go full-on Honeywell and tell the channel to go gently caress itself. Then again, Dell made a token effort to appease the channel when they bought Sonicwall, so  .
KillHour fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 17:59
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KillHour posted:It's going to be interesting. We're a distributor, so the distribution only move was good for us, but this Tyco thing is going to make it That's the best part about this. It's Tyco. Who the hell knows what they will do? But it's fun to watch people squirm.
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Jun 20, 2013 18:13
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I'm guessing this would fall under "other security topics." Is there a good barcode- or RFID-based asset management system for small businesses? Or is anything like that going to be, like, enterprise-level costs? Washington has some crazy tax stuff, and I'm not really worried about theft nearly as much as I am about keeping an accurate inventory for the B&O tax.
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Jun 20, 2013 23:39
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Thanatosian posted:I'm guessing this would fall under "other security topics." Barcodes are pretty cheap. RFID can get pretty expensive. Unfortunately, that's more of a Data Capture / Point of Sale question, and I'm not hugely versed in that area. Maybe some other goons can chime in. Try this: Call CDW/Insight/Tiger Direct and ask for pre-sales tech support regarding the issue. I pretty much guarantee they will call my company (and try to pass us off as their internal team) and one of my colleagues in DC/POS will help you out.
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Jun 21, 2013 03:53
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KillHour posted:Rolling your own SHOULDN'T be hard to do; controllers are pretty simple. The problem is that unlike IT, security integrators stick to names they know and are very stubborn fanboys. If you're doing the installs, though, it's not like the end user is going to know the difference. Yeah, that's what I figured...hard to break into as a business quote:For a cheap prebuilt networked solution, I'm fond of Geovision: That actually looks pretty good, too bad I already bought two of the ES400s for both doors in question quote:Technically, you CAN order plain prox cards and program them yourself with a 3rd party programmer, since HID's patent on prox cards expired. iClass can be ordered un-programmed as well, but the only way to program them AFAIK is to lease a programmer from HID, which is extremely expensive, and the programmer is locked down to hell and back. Huh, I had no idea you could program Prox cards, interesting!
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Jun 21, 2013 06:23
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movax posted:Huh, I had no idea you could program Prox cards, interesting! They don't want you to know.  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/125KHz-RFID-ID-Card-Reader-Writer-Copier-Programmer-FREE-Rewritable-ID-Card-Keyfob-COPY-ISO-EM/576448257.html KillHour fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 16:38
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What is the most ridiculous/paranoid security system you've ever had to set up, in terms of quantity of devices as well as expenses? Was it for a private owner or a corporate building? Furthermore, do you more commonly install systems in homes or offices?
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Jun 22, 2013 12:04
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Have IR LEDs ever been a threat you had to account for? If so, does any company make cameras specifically designed to not pick them up? Also, how does one get into this kind of work? Are there specific majors for physical security or is it more like pentesting where you major in something similar then take a few classes for a certification?
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Jun 23, 2013 18:56
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LegatusP posted:What is the most ridiculous/paranoid security system you've ever had to set up, in terms of quantity of devices as well as expenses? Was it for a private owner or a corporate building? My more paranoid customers are more worried about their employees than thieves. I've had people put hidden cameras and microphones in employee cubicles and desks. they generally want software to capture screenshots and keystrokes, too. Most of my customers are businesses. I'm not licensed in my state to do installs, I just go design work. Jeesis posted:Have IR LEDs ever been a threat you had to account for? If so, does any company make cameras specifically designed to not pick them up? I'm not sure what you mean by threat. People shining IR lights into the camera to blind it? Most people would just use a regular flashlight for that. HDR helps with the blinding issue on cameras that support it. Most nicer cameras have an IR cut filter to block IR light, but that's just so you get proper color reproduction during the day. As for training, I went to school for network security. I just had an opportunity to branch out. If you want to do installs, you need to become licensed, and have some kind of security background (this usually means cop or military). A lot of cable guys used to go into cctv, but you really need networking background, now. KillHour fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 00:19
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Jeesis posted:Have IR LEDs ever been a threat you had to account for? If so, does any company make cameras specifically designed to not pick them up? Most cameras have a filter for IR light. It gets retracted mechanically at night to allow IR light as a light source but during the day blocks it out. When it doesn't, you get an image that is a bit overexposed and looks washed out. Also pretty much every trick in the Anonymous video on how to defeat security cameras is silly. And really just likely to cause you to stand out to human observers. On another note, I've been told IR LEDs will cause the human eye to respond, and prolonged exposure can be damaging to the human eye depending on the brightness of the IR LEDs.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:00
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Thomamelas posted:On another note, I've been told IR LEDs will cause the human eye to respond, and prolonged exposure can be damaging to the human eye depending on the brightness of the IR LEDs. The problem is that IR light doesn't trigger the human iris to contract so you get all the light flooding into your retina. Effects will be the same as a visible light source of the same power shining into your dilated eye. Most LEDs aren't going to be bright enough to cause permanent damage; more likely will be spots in your vision for a little while and a headache for bright IR LEDs. This is also why the FDA is really strict with IR lasers, because those will cause nearly instant damage and you have no indication what's happening until the damage is done.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:11
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Midjack posted:The problem is that IR light doesn't trigger the human iris to contract so you get all the light flooding into your retina. Effects will be the same as a visible light source of the same power shining into your dilated eye. Most LEDs aren't going to be bright enough to cause permanent damage; more likely will be spots in your vision for a little while and a headache for bright IR LEDs. This is also why the FDA is really strict with IR lasers, because those will cause nearly instant damage and you have no indication what's happening until the damage is done. Which is a good reason to also be careful around fibre optic networking gear. I poo poo a brick at work when a 28dbm source was freely radiating out of unplugged and unscreened distribution frame, in eye height.
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Jun 25, 2013 19:03
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1550NM posted:Which is a good reason to also be careful around fibre optic networking gear. I poo poo a brick at work when a 28dbm source was freely radiating out of unplugged and unscreened distribution frame, in eye height. My dad worked for a fibre company for a while. When I visited the office I saw plenty of signs warning "Don't look at the end of the cable with your other good eye."
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Jun 26, 2013 01:10
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