Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«26 »
  • Locked thread
Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

Hoss Corncave posted:

Those three words will always make me very angry.

Sorry to keep bringing up your trauma, but I did the same thing for the same reason and it's not something that's easy to forget.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Hoss Corncave
Feb 13, 2012


Ardeem posted:

Sorry to keep bringing up your trauma, but I did the same thing for the same reason and it's not something that's easy to forget.

It's not your fault. I'm fine, I'm calm. I just get flashbacks to the Elbesem Temple exterior and NO DONHORT, DON'T GO INTO THEIR RANGE!

Raitzeno
Nov 24, 2007

What? It seemed like
a good idea at the time.


Hoss Corncave posted:

Those three words will always make me very angry.

I didn't play this myself, in its place I have "DAMMIT GET BACK HERE RAFA".

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

I still say Devil Survivor handled bad SRPG escort AI best by just writing the character as actually suicidal.

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received


KataraniSword posted:

I still say Devil Survivor handled bad SRPG escort AI best by just writing the character as actually suicidal.

The Avatar racial skill let you switch places with the AI dudes, in addition to movement options from Genma, Wilder, and Avians, so it gets you plenty of ways to get in between the demons and the escortees.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Part 81: Metal Gear Solid 2 also had a bad port





The defense is quite strong. There's no way we can approach the Great Lighthouse.

This is demonstrably false, both in game and in universe. I mean, not too long ago Julian and company withstood an army while being bombarded by canons, while at half strength no less.

But we can't cross the gate bridge unless we can get to the Great Lighthouse first.

The sunset is coming soon. I think I know how to get to the Great Lighthouse. We'll cat once the sun sets, Julian. I'll explain my idea then. Get some rest until dark.




Look over there. We need to cross the gate bridge. Notice our enemies are divided into two battalions.




From this distance, we can plan to engage them separately. We should attack the battalion guarding the Great Lighthouse first. Here's how: Take notice of these two areas.




If we stop at the first area, they will be able to spot us from the lighthouse, so never stop there.

If they discover us, they will certainly attack.

And the branch in the second area... The battalion at the gate bridge is surely guarding there, so don't stop there either!

This is a good plan, Julian. If we hide ourselves in the shadows of the rocks, we won't be exposed by the light from the lighthouse. Keep that in mind.

If you understand the plan, let's get going. Good luck, Julian!






So this battle has a gimmick, and that's to stay hidden. The lighthouse is going to sweep over the map every other turn, and we have to take cover to not get spotted.





Also, there's some new enemies and three boss flags. I have no idea why, but the mercenaries and the hill giant are sporting some serious durability.



This screenshot explains pretty well how the cover works. There's rocks scattered all over the map, and they cast shadows of two tiles. Cyclops and Donhort are in the shadow, nobody else is.



And then at the beginning of the turn, the state of the map changes. On the second turn, the map becomes illuminated.



...and a bunch of us weren't standing in cover. Oops, stealth mission failed.



Captain, the Julian army has been sighted on the hill.

I see. So the Julian arm has arrived! The Julian army has been spotted on the hill. All battalions dispatch and subdue them immediately!



All this does is spawn two extra mega loaders to the west. It stops Thousand and Honesty from flying right in and massacring that wing knight but doesn't accomplish much else. Other than dropping more experience and gold, I guess.




Oh, I guess three more mega loaders spawn on the east too. Yep, that's the entire penalty for getting spotted: spawning five mediocre archer units. For how complicated and how much trouble staying in cover is, it's not worth the effort at all. The fight goes from non-threatening to still non-threatening but taking slightly longer.




On the first turn, Kate and Rollie reduce the reinforcement population by 20%.



Then Julian nails another one with the ice breaker critical, freezing it in place and rendering it unable to move and consequently unable to attack. Now 40% of the reinforcements have been neutralized.

Thanks for the plan, Bresby. We really needed it.



Start of the next turn and it's dark again.




Cyclops and Leon rush ahead to take care of the mega loaders by the wing knight, and we discover the next thing about this fight that makes it idiotically easy: The AI refuses to attack when it's dark. Those mega loaders and the wing knight just move back a little bit, because apparently a dragonman and a lionman hacking them to pieces in the dark is not a tipoff to the fact that they're in a fact.



Kate, Rollie, and Honesty take out another mega loader. That's 60% of the reinforcements dead in two turns.




Leon and Donhort take care of the other two. That was four turns total, I believe. What a huge penalty for being discovered.



Julian then casts Bolt 3 on the rest of the lighthouse guards, which pretty much demolishes them thanks to the high magic scaling on his mithril weapon.



Of course there's another map within this map! We've got 32-bit technology and we're making the most of it.



We've got trouble! The Julian army has broken into the interior of the big lighthouse!

So you've arrived, Julian army! They've come to lower the gate bridge. Do NOT let them get near the switch!



Meanwhile, the rest are going to advance on the bridge to speed things up a little bit. That's Thousand, Leon, Kate, and Isabella. It's a bit of a skeleton crew.




Inside the lighthouse are merely six enemies. Only the mage and the giga breaker are threatening.



There's also some chests by the entrance. While the dark matter is useless to us, there's also a large mithril and a goddess tear, which aren't bad finds.



Also, one of the wing knights immediately jumps down to the basement and whacks Brigit. This would be an issue except Brigit has drain.



Brigit can take care of her own HP problems easily, and Rollie finishes the thing off.



We've got trouble! The Julian army is quickly approaching.

What?! For them to make it that far... What the hell have you been doing? Everyone, hurry to your battle stations! Intercept the Julian army!

This little dialogue triggers when anybody gets close enough to the bridge. It does not spawn any extra enemies.



Hell, it doesn't even make the enemies aggressive when you approach them. This fight is a joke.



Inside the tower, Julian and Donhort rip through the interior guards without much trouble.



The mini-boss can do some damage to Leon, but the enemy just doesn't have the sheer manpower to deal with him. Keep in mind there's only three combatants taking care of this.



Brigit just about wipes out the last of the mooks inside the lighthouse.



Due to my impatience and forgetting to send Gracia into the lighthouse, I actually cut it pretty close. As always, I'm thankful that enemy mages has zero elemental affinities.



Also, the giga breaker has regret hit and it's bullshit.



Outside, it's dark and the mercenary straight up just does not attack even with Leon next to him.



I kind of chose to pin the giga breaker in a very bad spot, so only two people could hit him. This leads to Rollie's death because I am stupid and careless.



Mercenaries actually have some decent defense. This is Kate, one of my hardest hitters, only doing 20 damage on a critical.



But not a whole lot can stand up to a giant dragon with stats that are off the charts.



Sure, why not.




The strategy in case of defeat?

The lighthouse defense failure plan. Execute it. The switch and the lighthouse... Blow them up.







I'm not entirely sure what happened here. The giga breaker died at the last second, and then a monk teleported in to also hit the switch? Man, this part is just not well written at all. But it's still better than scenario 2.



Jane then lights the monk on fire, which my emulator did not capture very well.

I'm sorry. The truth is, I really don't want to do such a thing.

Jane, you're...

You want to cross to the continent over there, right? That is fine. I will get you across.



And then she teleports away.

With this, the gate will surely come down. Everyone, hurry outside!



The gate bridge is coming down!



drat, the gate bridge is... I see, so the lighthouse garrison was defeated. We have no choice. All battalions, we must fight back! The Julian army is approaching. All battalions, fight like your life depends on it!

Take one guess as to whether or not this spawns more enemies.



I take the last remaining NPC dragon up to the mages so they'll waste their MP casting Blaze 3 on it. It works.



The hill giant also has some serious defense and more HP than the mercenary to boot. Going in with three combatants may have been a mistake.



Especially since the dickweed has this and takes Kate immediately down to 1 HP.



Truly, the most embarrassing way to die.



The series of minibosses on this map actually do very reasonable amounts of damage. It's just that so many of them have regret hit.



But it only takes two or three turns to clean up his lackeys and then surround and pound him. I probably could have gotten through this much cleaner if I hadn't been such a goof about healing and running into bad situations.



General, I leave the rest to you. Please kill those... those...

Quick reminder: We're still theoretically allied with the Empire. We're fighting Baersol soldiers, who are part of the Republican army. Yet somehow a Bulzome monk stepped in to blow up the lighthouse. Hmm.



We reached the Great Lighthouse, but were unaware of the explosives. If Jane hadn't helped us... She must have known about the explosives. If the switch to the gate had been destroyed, we couldn't have crossed over to the continent.

Jane.. such a strange girl. Why would she go through all that trouble, just to help us?




Ignore the obvious error and notice that there's an angry face coming off of Kate's head.

Maybe she was just acting against General Defenda.

Oh, you mean that general she's never met and has been dead for some time now?




I agree, these forced romance plot threads are really awkward.

Well, at least we're finally in Republican territory. Let's hurry to Aspia.

So, this is the Republic of Aspinia, where Medion is...

As you say, Lady Melinda. It won't take long to meet up with Prince Medion again! Well then, let's move, Julian!



NEXT TIME: Finally, a payoff from scenario 2

gbuchold
Oct 7, 2007

We feel free because we lack the very language to articulate our unfreedom.


Pillbug

That fight seems real busted. Hopefully that doesn't portend ill for the rest of Scenario 3.

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

I kinda regret playing that one straight now. I don't remember if there was any reward beyond not having to deal with 5 extra megaloaders, but I do remember it being a pain in the rear end to have a low movement healer keeping up with the high movement damage dealers that were eating all of those regret hits and staying stealthy.

Alacron
Feb 15, 2007

-->Have tearful reunion with your son
-->Eh

So was the Mercenary Boss a Bulzome Monk in disguise or... what exactly?

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Alacron posted:

So was the Mercenary Boss a Bulzome Monk in disguise or... what exactly?

Honestly, it's not very clear. What I think happened is the giga breaker (i.e. the mini-boss inside the lighthouse) died, and then a Bulzome monk teleported in, which Jane then roasted. Why the game needed to introduce another mook who was going to get toasted is beyond me.

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

Maybe to remind the players that for Galm's side Bulzome is an annoyance?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.


Fun Shoe

So is there any stat you can pump to avoid getting nailed by a critical strike like Regret Hit? Or is that just pure RNG on the enemy part?

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

Maybe luck? Maybe evade friendship bonuses?
Usually they don't crit that often.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine


Glazius posted:

So is there any stat you can pump to avoid getting nailed by a critical strike like Regret Hit? Or is that just pure RNG on the enemy part?

The "Succumb" effect from friendship with the Centaur knight class specifically lowers the chance of the enemy triggering a critical.
In fact, it's the ONLY thing it does.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


To add insult to injury, Regret Hit is the only critical really worth worrying about and only a handful of enemies can actually do it.

Succumb is by far the worst support in the game.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Part 82: Republican generals, everyone



You must be tired, Lady Melinda, since we traveled throughout the night. However, feel at ease, Lady Melinda. We are almost at Baersol village, where we will be able to rest.



This is Brutus' territory... There are many rumours circulating about him. Where did he get the gold to build this village?

I recognize that ship... Isn't that the Seagate?





It's been a while, General Produn.

You are Donhort... I thought you were imprisoned in Barrand. Why are you with the Julian army?

I followed my heart and decided to escort Gracia, and join the Julian army!

Gracia? You mean Elbesem's... Why is a noble such as him with the Imperial army?

Our force is not for the benefit of the Empire. Let's just say we are a force led by the light.

Are you saying your force is here for peace? But you've defeated the Baersol army.

We were forced to fight. If possible, we don't want to fight anyone. Please, will you allow us to pass through peacefully?

We are on guard here under order of Lord Brutus, explicitly ordered to not let you pass.

If you won't let us through, then we will use force to get through. We must allow Lady Melinda and Prince Medion to meet, no matter what.

Did you say... the mother of Prince Medion is with you?

Yes, we have Lady Melinda in our escort.

Lord Brutus has said the Julian army is a dangerous foe to the Republic of Aspinia. However, we see the Godchild of Elbesem is with them.

The mother of Prince Medion is with them as well. Their intentions seem to be quite different from what we've been told.

I don't think we should battle those who are escorting the Godchild and the prince's mother.

You're not thinking of disobeying Lord Brutus' command are you?



But, this is different! The Julian army is not the enemy of the Republic!

So you are saying the army that aids the invasion by defeating the Baersol army is the Republic's ally? Or is there another reason you don't want to defeat them? What's wrong, General Produn? I understand. Then I will give the order for you... The Republic's enemy, the Julian army is over there! Everyone, assault them immediately! The order has been given, General. You should also concentrate on the battle.

Since the battle order has been given... we must fight.

But... it's strange. It seems General Produn and his lieutenant are holding back or something.

Don't allow yourself to be distracted from the battle, Julian. While we are talking, they're attacking. We will see General Produn's true intent during the battle.




The fight is kind of a straight line down without any enemies that are really a threat. Pretty simple, really, except for the amount of sand we have to crawl through.



The only new enemy this fight. Other than his stack of HP, he's not really dangerous.



Oh right, there's this guy too. The fact that he has a stat sheet might be a problem shortly.




While the Produn army is fighting with all their might, you are idle. You are certainly hurting your soldiers' morale.

I... I can't attack them. I am indebted to Prince Medion for his kindness towards Stella. How can I attack the force escorting his mother?

Is that so? It's Stella, is it? Well then, I'll make it easier for you to fight.



What have you done to her?

That trap radiates plasma energy from time to time and affects the person trapped inside. If you take too long, I can't guarantee her life.

So, before her health is gone, we have to defeat the Julian army?

What are you... going to do to me...?

I'm sorry for this, Stella, but to boost the general's battle spirit, you must remain there for now.

S... Stella... suffering like this... You've not been weel recently, and...

She'll be alright, General... provided you deal with the situation at hand. Now, to save Stella's life, you must battle the Julian army. Are you still debating? Take your time then. I joyfully await your decision!

Stella, I can't do anything while you are in danger...

Uhh, I'm alright... Please don't fall into the monk's trap... Please don't... Ugh.

You don't look alright to me. You haven't been in the best condition lately.



For the record, Stella has a snap-to tile but no stats.



For now, though, the fight is super simple. Take out the archers quickly, run ahead to kill the soldiers, and then tussle with the wing knights as they trickle in.



Yeah, you've probably figured out by now that the regular enemies are not the real challenge to this fight.



What are you saying, General? Can't stand anymore? Ugh... Are you actually... the Julian army?

If I don't defeat the Julian army, then I'll lose you! After I defeat the Julian army, I will make amends with the life of the Bulzome monk and my own life.

Wait, did Produn just threaten to commit a murder-suicide?

Oh, General... Uhh.

Stella seems to be just as weirded out by this as we are.

Finally! With General Produn dedicated to the battle, we will prevail.



Produn proceeds to move into an extremely inconvenient spot. Remember, everyone takes bad movement penalties in sand. Everyone except fliers, so basically it's Thousand and Honesty's job to go past him and kill the boss.



At the beginning of every turn, the camera will pan back to Stella and show her wincing, as if to imply that there's a time limit to this fight. There isn't.



Produn can cast blaze, but that's not a big deal. While he has an innate bonus to magic, his sword doesn't give him any scaling.



The real problem with Produn is that he just plain hits hard. Cyclops is standing on a hill here, which is 30% terrain effect. Yeesh.



The mages near the monk also jump in, which actually just makes beating up the monk with my fliers easier.



Getting past Produn is kind of a hassle, all things considered.





Unfortunately, while Honesty can bypass all the terrain nonsense, she gets intercepted and I'm forced to reevaluate my plan.



God dammit, Produn. Calm down already.



Guy would even murder Medion's sister.



Still, Produn getting so aggressive lets us break through to the monk. While he's sporting a ton of hit points, his Spark 2 isn't very impressive. Once you can actually make contact with the monk, it's pretty much over.



Gracia can fix everything with a single spell anyway.



Thousand gives the monk a proper roasting.





And that's all she wrote. This is probably one of the most boring fights in the entire scenario, since Produn is the only real threat and his AI isn't very good.



General Produn... You weren't fighting with all your might, were you? I should have realized that... before trusting you. Prince Arrawnt, Lord Brutus... Governor Garvin... Forgive me!



I'm relieved the prince's mother and Gracia are safe.

General Produn, you seemed to be holding back in the battle with us. Why?

We were being chased by the Imperials after the emperor's abduction. We came to Anafect village to get a ship. We battled the Medion army there. Our force was in a hopeless situation and Stella left me on the ship. She fought that losing battle alone... I was sure her life was over.

Ah, Stella...



Stella, I'm happy... you're alive.

My life, once spared by Prince Medion has been spared once again.

Medion spared your life...?

We couldn't afford to trust the Imperials, so we chose to battle the Medion army. We wanted to flee to the Republic by ship.

Stella, who was the last person left on the pier, surely would have been the Medion army's victim, but Prince Medion spared her.

That's not all... We were even granted the use of a ship that we needed. We were saved.

Is that so... That child... did such a noble thing...

What a wonderful story. I commend your son Prince Medion for his actions!

Is it true you plan to escort Prince Medion's mother back to his side? The battle with the Julian army is over. I also plan to head toward Aspinia. Please, allow the two of us to join the Julian army.



I'm sorry, Produn... When this Saraband expedition ended, I was hoping to wash my hands of the military.

What are you saying, Stella? You planned to abandon me?

That's not it. My body...

After returning to the Republic, you stayed in bed, but... I didn't realize your body was that weak.

Stella, you... Could it be that you're...?




Maybe it's just me, but I find this entire sequence extremely cringeworthy.

What...? You two... seem to know what's going on... but I don't understand at all.

You don't get it because you're a man. Don't be so dense...




Men: Too stupid to know how pregnancy works, I guess. Takes the brains of the outfit to figure it out!

Lady Melinda, perhaps... in Stella's womb is General Produn's...?

Stella... don't tell me... Could it be... our child?



I don't know what this is supposed to indicate, but there you go. Produn: A goof who falls in love with his subordinates and impregnates them while on active duty. Good work.

They are always together... Why didn't Stella tell him?

It's not the kind of thing a woman finds easy to share.

Congratulations, General Produn.

Y-yes, thank you. It's all so sudden. I don't know what to say.

Fighting in such a condition, wouldn't it be horrible if the time came and no one in the force knew?

That's why I revealed it to the rest of the Produn army.

Stella, then... you... I was the only one who didn't know...

Jesus, she told everyone except the father?

They're both teetering on too dumb to live. They're meant for each other.

It would be better for you to remain here, General.

Wh-why is that, Gracia?

After Aspia, we, the Julian army, are going over the Great Wall. We will be battling evil enemies on our way to Remotest. General, for the sake of your unborn child, I do not want to lead you into danger.

The expedition being led by Gracia. I didn't expect the path to be smooth and I still ask that you bring me along.

So let's get this straight: Because Medion spared his pregnant not-wife, Produn is now willing to abandon his country's war effort, effectively deserting them, and run off with the enemy army to the far corner of the world?

Donhort and Edmund both have sparse but reasonable motivations for joining Gracia, but Produn's is just awful. He doesn't even acknowledge the fact that the monk revealed it was working with Arrawnt in the monk's dying breath.

If Gracia is caught in a battle, it is a battle that concerns the peace of the entire world, right? It's something he personally wants. So our child can live in peace... he will be the hardest working soldier.

The Julian army is fortunate to have your assistance. Now then, Aspia is just a little further. After a short respite in the town, let's hurry onward!



NEXT TIME: That other hanging plot thread!

Raitzeno
Nov 24, 2007

What? It seemed like
a good idea at the time.


That's a "pop" sound effect, usually used to indicate a sudden, heavy blush. This scene is entirely too anime.

Alacron
Feb 15, 2007

-->Have tearful reunion with your son
-->Eh

It's not just you, that scene was really cringey.

Hoss Corncave
Feb 13, 2012


inthesto posted:

Donhort and Edmund both have sparse but reasonable motivations for joining Gracia, but Produn's is just awful. He doesn't even acknowledge the fact that the monk revealed it was working with Arrawnt in the monk's dying breath.

Not just Arrawnt, but the monk also mentions Brutus as well. Considering that he's not been linked with Bulzome this whole time, it is somewhat suspicious that he would be named now.

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

I got luck's ability to make you immune to status effects and succumb's ability to lower crits mixed up because 99% of the time the only thing you're worried about with a crit is the effect.

Also, as creepy as their relationship and the reveal in this chapter is, imagine how much worse it would be in the other timeline where we didn't spare Stella and he knew.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.


Fun Shoe

Why is anyone trusting these monks?

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

Glazius posted:

Why is anyone trusting these monks?

Because not only do they promise money, power, and steamtech, they can deliver. Just ask Gavin how that floating city of his is working out.

Hoss Corncave
Feb 13, 2012


Ardeem posted:

Because not only do they promise money, power, and steamtech, they can deliver.

Plus they have a habit of brainwashing anyone who doesn't follow them.

Ardeem posted:

Just ask Gavin how that floating city of his is working out.

Better ask him quick. He's not going to be alive for much longer in the timeline.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


BONUS: Alternate Universes

So it shouldn't come across as any surprise that this fight has quite a few alternate outcomes. As I've pointed out before, if Medion kills Stella in scenario 2, we would receive Edmund at the start of scenario 3. In terms of gameplay, this makes the beginning of scenario 3 quite a bit harder as we don't receive Isabella until the opening of chapter 3. As far as the characters themselves go, Produn is a beatstick whereas Edmund is far more versatile, but it's hard to say that one is better than the other.

But that's all academic. Let's see the opening to Produn's fight if Stella is dead:

You must be tired, Lady Melinda, since we traveled throughout the night.
However, feel at ease, Lady Melinda. We are almost at Baersol village, where we will be able to rest.
I've heard the Republic is poor, but Baersol village doesn't look as bad as I've heard...
This is Brutus' territory... There are many rumours circulating about him. Where did he get the gold to build this village...?
I recognize that ship... Isn't that the Seagate?
Wait, that certainly is the Seagate. If it's docked there...
The gate bridge defense... You must have broken through, Julian army!
Since we didn't see the Great Lighthouse explode, we assumed we had eradicated the Julian army. However, the Great Lighthouse garrison has apparently been defeated instead.
It's been a while, General Produn.
You must be Edmund... You have survived many difficult battles. Why are you with the Julian army?
I sinned in my betrayal of the Republic of Aspinia... by cooperating with the Bulzome Sect... After I fell into Barrand Falls from the bridge, I was miraculously rescued. Then I headed to Barrand where I was able to get on the Imperial General Rogan's ship.
General Rogan... Imperial... He's the commander of the Barrand invasion army, isn't he? So, that's how you were able to join the Imperials?
That evil sect has even betrayed Elbesem. To prevent Elbesem village from being invaded by that evil sect, I chose to take the Seagate!
Heheh. That is a very interesting story... Let me ask you. Then why are you with the Julian army?
I'll tell you why. Because I want to defeat you. I have abandoned the Republic and I've chosen to protect and serve Gracia!
Gracia... He is... You mean the Godchild of Elbesem?

How the hell does Produn know who Gracia is but not realize the Bulzome monks are evil?

That's right... I am Gracia... Open your eyes, General Produn. You mustn't be deceived by the Bulzome Sect!
After hearing from Gracia, it seems you intend to betray both us and Lord Brutus...You do realize this is the Julian army... Don't you? If I recall correctly... your beloved was killed by the Medion army. Am I right?
. . .
Do you know who that dignified lady is over there? She is the biological mother of Prince Medion, Lady Melinda!
That is the prince's birth mother... I see. The mother of Medion!
Wait, General Produn. We don't know what happened with the Medion army. Please stay level headed... for the sake of peace...
That's impossible, isn't it... General Edmund... People die in war. I understand that. No matter how nicely you say it, war still means killing people. I may also die in the war, but I will hold no grudges. But Stella was different... I desperately wanted her to survive... but the Medion army killed her. Even now, when I think of her my heart grows heavy. The time has come for Prince Medion, who I hold responsible, to feel the pain he put her through! Enemy of me and my country, the Julian army... All soldiers begin an all out attack at once! You have taught me well with your treatment of Stella. Kill everyone in the Julian army...
Since the battle order has been given... we must fight...
All because Medion killed General Produn's dearest loved one... That child... how could he...
I understand how General Produn feels, but that's what war is about. Please don't let it bother you...
But General Produn's personal grudge is the reason for this attack...
This... in a way... is the most difficult battle we have fought... Not only are we fighting General Produn, but also our sympathy for General Produn.
Such thoughts must not be allowed to interfere in battle. If we do not act, they will attack us! For the sake of the Legendary Expedition, we must not lose. We will fight and win!

So to recap, Produn is so distraught that his subordinate is dead that he's willing to murder a civilian over it. Who the hell put this guy in charge of anything?

We're also treated to some extra dialogue during the fight:

Quite strong... quite strong, Julian army.
What are you going to do, General?... The Julian army's invasion has not been stopped. Rather, it seems they are making progress.
Huh. Leave it to me, Bulzome monk. I will stop the Julian army or die trying!
So, you're serious... General Produn battling to the death... This should be something to see!

Later still:

Tough... The Julian army is tough.
What will you do, General Produn...? The Julian army's invasion is building momentum.
Heh. Leave it to me, Bulzome monk. Even if it costs me my life, I will stop the Julian army!
I see. So it's all or nothing is it? Show me your desperate struggle, General Produn!

And then when we do kill Produn:

Ugh.. Wah... This is my defeat... How can I allow... S... Stella's enemy to pass through Baersol... I have finally realized, after Stella was defeated... My child's soul... with Stella... If I were to go to the other world... would I meet them? The gears of destiny... began to go mad after the emperor's abduction... Julian... Gracia... If your mission is to find answers... Please solve this...

So somehow if Stella's dead, Produn suddenly knows about his dead child?

Anyways, it should be pretty obvious that there's no chance of leaving Produn alive and that with Stella dead, Produn's fight doesn't end until you kill him too. Let's check out what happens after the fight and Stella is dead:

It's all over... Prince Arrawnt, Lord Brutus... Governor Garvin... please forgive me!
General Produn. That's why... That was why you were so stubborn...
He lost his beloved, Stella, along with the child she was bearing... Anyone would seek revenge if such a terrible thing happened to them.
The Medion army defeated that woman. That child... has done such a terrible...
Lady Melinda. Please don't blame Prince Medion.
War is vicious... and that will never change. The prince has endured a lot during the war and has survived. He has fought so that these terrible things never happen again...
I agree. I was saved by Prince Medion. There may be some casualties, but there are many that were rescued as well.
Lady Melinda, the general's last words... I believe he was speaking the truth. The emperor's abduction was at the root of it all. It was the beginning of this dreadful event.
In other words, the Bulzome Sect is responsible. We are doing this to defeat them... We have no choice but to fight...
Everyone... Thank you so much... Medion is very fortunate... I worry about that child... to know he has companions who will protect him puts my mind at ease.
We will be in Aspia shortly... Let's rest in the village before we continue! We must catch Brutus... That fellow must be incredibly fast. We must hurry if we hope to catch up with him!

There is, however, one more outcome. You can be a complete goofus and kill Produn while Stella is spared. This obviously prevents you from recruiting him, and leads to the following death dialogue during combat:

I've been blown down, Julian army... If Stella wouldn't have been taken hostage... I'd have fought alongside Gracia in honour of the prince's kindness... Stella... Stella... at least, you must live.

Then we're treated to this little bittersweet scene after this fight:

It's all over... Prince Arrawnt, Lord Brutus... Governor Garvin... please forgive me!
I'm relieved the prince's mother and Gracia are safe... but the general lost his life during the battle...
Why did General Produn decide to cooperate with that masked monk...? We were in danger. We had no choice.
After the abduction during the peace conference, our army... was being pursued by the Imperials and was forced to flee to a remote village. There we met the Medion army. We battled... I could've been killed, but Prince Medion spared my life.
Is that so... that child... has become such a wonderful man...
Ah, Stella...
After the Bulzome monk was defeated, the magical power dissipated and I... was able to live... but the general... Produn... -sob-
Stella, it seems you are not well. You've been like that throughout the battle.
To let a woman continue to fight who is suffering so... Is the Republic really that short of soldiers?
It's not that... I...
Poor Stella... Kate doesn't know, but... Stella carries the general's child in her womb...

You know, it's really weird that Melinda can figure this out so easily. Not weird on Melinda's part, but weird on the part of the writer who wrote this.

I see... What an unfortunate situation.
He didn't know... I... never told him...
Without knowing about his child, we... killed General Produn...
No. The ones who killed him... The Bulzome monk and Brutus... are to blame...
Brutus is the lord of Barrand and second in command of Aspinia, correct?
He ordered the Julian army not to advance any further. He also used a Bulzome monk for surveillance, so perhaps there is some cooperation going on with the Bulzome Sect.
Is there a connection between Gracia's expedition and the Bulzome Sect?
Since the emperor's abduction, many incidents on this continent can be traced to the Bulzome Sect.
We, the Julian army, will cross the Great Wall and head for Remotest after delivering Lady Melinda safely to Aspia.
Hmm... The other side of the wall... We'll be heading into a dangerous, uncivilized region.
It's safe to say my blood relatives existed solely for this battle. That's why it's a pity the general couldn't join us...
The grief of the general's death will not disappear, but we know everything was caused by the Bulzome Sect! The success of this expedition... It has also become about revenge for the general's fate. Please, let's hurry...
We are very sorry about the general's fate, Stella, but we can't delay. Aspia is just a little further... After a short respite in the town, let's hurry onward!

Yeah, sorry about your dead baby daddy Stella, but he was kind of a moron anyway.

Anyways, another fight with more alternate timelines next time!

MonotoneMorgan
Nov 20, 2013

The saddest day in Octavian's life was the day he was asked to shave his mustache.


Glazius posted:

Why is anyone trusting these monks?

They have a really good PR team.
Stuff like: "Who do YOU trust?
A "god"child and his cult of personality or a mature organized religion?
You know which one will bring salvation for the downtrodden and peace to the masses.

Join the sect of Bulzome today! We have cool masks!"

Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.

I hope other choices made in the past won't be as awkward as this one.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

and then we'll have pancakes to celebrate and I'll be like EURGNOMEHREUGN.



I seem to keep forgetting, why did the full game never make it outside of Japan again? I mean is it more just a product of the time the game came out, since Fire Emblem didn't actually get popular and get real releases in North America until the GC era.

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

Sega Saturn was discontinued the year the game got its NA and EU releases and the next year the Dreamcast launched.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Oh huh, I knew I had forgotten about something.

Anyways, what I've heard from the grapevine is that 1. Sega had terrible marketing outside of Japan in the 90s, 2. the Sega Saturn was a commercial flop, and 3. Shining Force 3 had its budget axed in favor of developing the Dreamcast (hence why scenario 2 doesn't even have different portraits on promotion, and there's a very noticeable art shift in scenario 3). As we start wrapping up the game, it'll become more and more obvious that the devs had a lot more in mind for the story, but most of it had to be retooled or thrown away all together.

And now that I remember that this thread exists, I'll have an update out by the end of the week. Unfortunately, there's a big city coming up, and god drat do I hate trimming down all those talky bits.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

and then we'll have pancakes to celebrate and I'll be like EURGNOMEHREUGN.



oh, well I guess that explains why Scenario 2 was a lot rougher looking than 1. I've always liked the Shining series so it sucks that that is what ended up happening to it, although I guess after the Genesis Sega just wasn't good at asset management or, really any kind of management

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Part 83: Everyone is a moron



Twenty years ago in the War of Independence, Baersol became Republican territory but was reduced to ash in the process.



Let's be careful, Julian. Prince Arrawnt, who plotted the emperor's abduction, and Governor Garvin of Saraband coule have an ambush prepared anywhere.

Is that so... Do you think there's a good chance the Bulzome Sect's masked monks are planning to ambush us here?

Oh, it's scary... To think the Bulzome Sect who invaded Destonia, could pop out of nowhere while our guard is down...

Julian, would you like to explore Baersol while everyone rests? There could be a party pursuing us. The last thing we need is to be forced to battle two enemies on two fronts.

So, are you planning to search for any oddities in town?

Not only that, but I also would like to determine why Prince Arrawnt and his companions have left the Seagate here.

Right. That is certainly a concern. Well then, let's make haste!

Bresby, I'd like you to wait at headquarters.

Why would I wait at headquarters? Do you think this old man is a liability?!

I don't think the investigation in Baersol will be dangerous, but someone must look after Lady Melinda...

Oh, that's right. I forgot about Lady Melinda. Then I'll escort Lady Melinda...

No, don't worry about me. It's more important you go with those two and offer your assistance, Bresby. Headquarters is not far from here. I can find my way.



Good. Let's start investigating Baersol. I'l leave Brutus' mansion up to you, Julian!

So this part of the game is going to start answering some questions, kind of. A lot of random NPCs are going ot shed some light on just how far back the conspiracy reaches and just how incompetent everyone in a position of power is.



The knowledge of their success should have been shared with the other cities...

Donhort is the only character who says anything of interest in HQ. Baersol has had a rapid economic boom in recent years, and it probably doesn't have to do with all that food and money Benetram and Conrad hid away in scenario 1. Now what ally could Brutus possibly have who could funnel a ton of money into his city?





I mean, these three NPCs in the church alone pretty much spell out everything we need to know. Brutus (remember him?) has been acting funny since the peace conference, which if you remember is the very beginning of scenario 1. Now his son has gone missing. No, that's not suspicious at all.



One time, I saw his reflection, and... he had a horn in his reflection.

You don't say.



They were exhausted because Braff, General Fafhard's son, held a demonstration to incite rebellion!



I'm glad we have a powerful army, but... When were they assembled?



The defeated Baersol army fills us in on a few details, namely that they were a reserve force left behind, because Brutus took the main army somewhere else entirely. Also, the guys we just beat were the broken pieces of the army that Synbios beat up a while ago. A lot of this also serves to place us in the timeline for scenarios 1 and 2.



There's no possible weapon or strategy to battle something that massive!

Basically, we're between chapters 5 and 6 of both Synbios' and Medion's timelines.



Well, I guess that explains where Harold is.



We've been ordered to guard this wine cellar and not let anyone through except Lord Brutus. Is it worth risking our lives for?

They are the Julian army, who defeated the baersol army. We two are no match anyway.



Well, that was easy.



Now that the plan at the gate bridge has failed, father abandoned the village and is heading to the capital. Only the Julian army has any reason to come here.

Why were you imprisoned in this wine cellar... by your father?

He changed that night. He's possessed by a devil... and when we found out, he put us here.

Yep, so Brutus was a mole from the start. Strange that it was never even hinted at until now, but then again the writing for this game has been steadily getting sloppier since scenario 2.

Mother, we shouldn't speak to the enemies. The Julian army is here to conquer the Republic!

Us? Conquest? Nonsense. It's your father who has betrayed the Republic. He sided with Prince Arrawnt and Garvin!

The secret is already out, isn't it? Yess, that man has betrayed the Republic. He's a monster who will be handing Aspinia over to our enemies. As his son, my shame won't allow me to face the world again.

But Harold... you tried to stop him by staying close to him. Then you were imprisoned in the wine cellar. You did all you could.

Everyone began to go mad that night. The night before the peace conference. A pagaon monk paid us a sudden visit. I heard father's scream. Something must have happened at that moment.

This implies that Harold was at Saraband at the beginning of the game. Funny how he never showed up in scenario 1 or 2. It's almost as if he was just added in at the last moment without any planning!

Lord Brutus' scream... That was during the meeting with the Bulzome monk?!

When we came to his room, he was talking with the Bulzome monk as if nothing had happened.

Reminder that ever since the beginning of the game, Bulzome monks have been known as the equivalent of violent, demonic cultists. The reason why Harold and his mom saw this and didn't think to report it to anyone is because... yeah.

In that time frame, something must have happened to Lord Brutus.

We can't be certain, but from Harold's story, it sounds like the normally patriotic Lord Brutus... changed after that incident.



I don't really know what this question is implying anymore. Let's just say no and assume Brutus had some other plan in mind.

You find it strange too, Julian? Why did Brutus depart with his army when he could've let General Produn guard the village?

You mean, Lord Brutus merely used General Produn to buy them some time to prepare an ambush for us? Since the Brutus army knows the nearby area very well, they could be waiting in a favorable location.

The devil posing as my father is an enemy of the Republic. He's also an enemy of my father. I can't sit idle. I'm going to make him pay for my father's death with the skills my father taught me. Please allow me to join the Julian army.



So, if Harold acknowledges that Brutus has been dead and replaced by an impostor this entire time, why the hell did he let Produn (and another Republican general we will see in the near future) follow orders from Brutus?

Harold! It's too dangerous. Besides, you are his heir. What would happen to Baersol?

Please relax, mother. If I don't go, Baersol will suffer with a weak lord who couldn't even take revenge for his father's death.

And with that, we pick up Harold, our second archer:



Unfortunately, he's a metal gunner specializing in shells. Since we're finally in scenario 3, we can pick up a shell with A scaling, but that won't be for another chapter or so, plus his attack is always just going to be a bit behind Kate regardless.

Speaking of stats and whatnot, Baersol is kind enough to give us a blacksmith.




The mithril claw is the worst weapon Cyclops could possibly pick up, but it's not like the other claws are much better. The holy lance only trails the strongest mithril lance by one point and comes with HP regeneration, which is an acceptable substitute for a weapon-based critical. Kate also picks up a breaker arrow which gives her a beautiful +7 DEF, which is always welcome.

But now with Produn and Harold, we're over the army limit!



Since Kate and Harold occupy the same niche, vote to keep one of them. As a reminder, Kate will have better attack, and Harold will have slightly better defense (though this is currently negated by Kate's breaker arrow).

NEXT TIME: More reunions!

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

I've had a weakness for Loader/Gunners since SF2, so let's have Harold putter around for at least one fight.

Verant
Oct 20, 2012

Go on an adventure ordained by fate?
-->Okay.
-->Eh.

Calling it now, Melinda's going to get kidnapped on her stroll. I'm starting to wonder if letting the Bulzome cult win would do this world a favor, since most humans have clearly lost their survival instinct.

Also Harold because hey new character why not.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine


As fitting as it would be to let Harold finish off his old man, I'm voting Kate because Brass Gunners suck and will always suck.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.


Fun Shoe

Let's bring Kate in for this. No sense putting patricide on the menu.

AsInCoolAsA
Feb 25, 2011


Keep Kate . Because her saying chocolate while killing makes me smile.

Hoss Corncave
Feb 13, 2012


Kate, because she was an absolute murderess in my run. You deserve to have her too.

Losem
Jun 17, 2003

Practicing shooting fundamentals.

I'm going to vote for Harold because I never really used him in my games.

Jade Rider
May 11, 2007

All the pages have been censored except for "heck," and she misread that one.



Let's give Harold a brief chance to shine.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.

I think we should hold on to Kate.

  • Locked thread
«26 »