Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«26 »
  • Locked thread
MonotoneMorgan
Nov 20, 2013

The saddest day in Octavian's life was the day he was asked to shave his mustache.


I think Frank needs his time in the sun, however that time is not now.
Bench him.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Serifina
Oct 30, 2011

So... dizzy...


Meh. Frank can sit his fuzzy rear end down.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


ChrisAsmadi posted:

Hey, Gerhalt was pretty good.

Only if you weren't expecting him to be Zylo 2.0 The first time I got Gerhalt I was excited to use him, considering how much of a God Zylo was, and he let me down hard. His attack is pretty good, but that's it. His defense is poo poo and he doesn't have the godly movement or cool promoted attack animations Zylo did. He even looks doofy.

Of course, Peter kind of took over that role, it's not like SF2 didn't have god units or anything. Just that Gerhalt has always disappointed me.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me


alcharagia posted:

Bench Dantares for Frank.

This was going to be my suggestion. I mean "7 MOV without the crazy penalties that centaurs get" sounds great, so what's the down side!? Dan deserves a break; he's constantly stealing Synbios's spotlight with the fans and needs to be shown who's boss.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Zurai posted:

Only if you weren't expecting him to be Zylo 2.0 The first time I got Gerhalt I was excited to use him, considering how much of a God Zylo was, and he let me down hard. His attack is pretty good, but that's it. His defense is poo poo and he doesn't have the godly movement or cool promoted attack animations Zylo did. He even looks doofy.

Of course, Peter kind of took over that role, it's not like SF2 didn't have god units or anything. Just that Gerhalt has always disappointed me.

Gerhalt actually has the second best attack stat after Peter! Even with the gisarme, Slade is still third, and the way Attack works gives Peter and Gerhalt an incredibly unfair advantage on top of that. He absolutely does need a running pimento to be in the top tier of units, though.

Lotish posted:

This was going to be my suggestion. I mean "7 MOV without the crazy penalties that centaurs get" sounds great, so what's the down side!? Dan deserves a break; he's constantly stealing Synbios's spotlight with the fans and needs to be shown who's boss.

For shits and giggles, I decided to try a solo Dantares run. I got to the fourth fight before rampant status effects and monsters randomly retargetting Synbios became a problem.

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

inthesto posted:

Gerhalt actually has the second best attack stat after Peter! Even with the gisarme, Slade is still third, and the way Attack works gives Peter and Gerhalt an incredibly unfair advantage on top of that. He absolutely does need a running pimento to be in the top tier of units, though.


For shits and giggles, I decided to try a solo Dantares run. I got to the fourth fight before rampant status effects and monsters randomly retargetting Synbios became a problem.

I've heard of solo Grace runs, but it'd take a lot of grinding to get Dantares to survive a hostile spellcaster living for more than one action.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Part 24: Homecoming

Since we voted Frank out, all there is to do is round up a few goodies and figure out the priest's puzzle.









At the northwest side of town, there's a little Republican emblem. Search it, and it pops open a secret passage. There's several throughout the place, but this is the one that opens up. It's easy to figure out, since it's the only anomaly that's particularly prevalent.




A long hallway that exits through a fireplace into a side room. When we exit through that door...




You made a promise to General Fafhard. There's no better time than now to look into the rumors about Lord Conrad.

We shall all wait here. Please, Lord Synbios, you alone should go and talk to Lord Conrad.

Makes sense. If there's anything fishy going on, is should be kept within the family.





Synbios doesn't care. He will walk headfirst into an obvious trap and make his ambushers regret it.

Oh blast. If it's revealed, what can I do? I had hoped you'd come a lot closer.

Fiale! What the hell are you doing!?



I see. It's love, isn't it? Even if you are facing death, you still think of your child. Touching.

That line would be a little more interesting if Fafhard said anything about Braff before dying.

What did you say Fiale!? You bastard! What have you done to Lord Conrad?!

Conrad was always getting in our way, by doing things like stopping us from sending spies to the holy land. So I came here to negotiate with him. But the negotiations failed, so I felt it was time for Conrad to 'retire.' You're just in time for the party.

Let him go, or I'll make you regret it!

If you intend to save his life, you'd better hurry up.

I... cannot be saved... Go... it is a... trap...

How could you do such a hideous thing?

Synbios is trying to do you a favor. Be thankful and accept it Conrad. He's willing to risk his life for you! Isn't that right, Lord Synbios?

Trying? I'm not going to try, I'm going to succeed!

Let's hurry and team with Synbios, and help him save Lord Conrad!



The map this time is a bit funny. Synbios is sandwiched between a buttload of enemies, and Fiale is right in front of him. Once again, the AI shows us mercy, and the only enemy who's programmed to attack Synbios is Fiale, and that's only if we send Synbios at him.

Which we're going to do, of course.



The enemy groups are identical on each side. Bunch of old stuff, but the masked monks got a bit of an upgrade.




Fiale himself, on the other hand, is unchanged except for the fact that he's actually sporting slightly less defense than before. At least the plot justifies this one: With the destruction of the Elbesem Statue, the masked monks are more powerful than before. Even if they're just swinging around scimitars.




Everyone presses full steam ahead.




All Fiale does is repeatedly cast Spark 2. It's not terrible on a single target, but it has a gigantic area of effect. Synbios can survive two of them, but there's a slight problem.




The problem isn't that Synbios is angry as gently caress.




It's not important anyway. You can have it.

The problem is that after we yank that item off of Fiale, I forgot a little something.



Oops! No healing items! All I'd need is two healing drops, and I'd be able to do this map with an aggressive Synbios easily, but I forgot.



Yoink! We'll redo this properly.



Nice thing is that we get to keep the key, so if we really wanted, I could pull Synbios back and do the map more conservatively. But hey, Synbios is built like a house this time, so why not take some risks?




The party deals with some major congestions. I'm having Eldar and Ratchet sit off to the side so I can farm a support between them. Masqurin and Noon continue to do their thing, and Dantares and Cybel charge right down the center.




Synbios uses a healing drop to stay alive.




This +10 DEF ring on Noon is loving hilarious.




Rank 2 wand critical. Not something we're going to see often.



In two turns, we've cleaned up enough of the chaff that our quadruped allies can hoof it up to help Synbios. Interestingly, those masked monks who move up towards Fiale never actually attack Synbios unless he strikes first. Also, notice how the masked monk on the lower-right doesn't mirror the opposite formation. It gives Synbios a chance to escape.

Man, how much of a bitch would it have been if those four monks just pinned Synbios in there?



Spark 2's area of effect. Since it's circular and the grid isn't, just imagine a spear or Ratchet's range. Yes, centered on Ratchet and hitting every square he could possibly target. Not pretty, and very easy to hit three or more enemies. When the enemy has it, don't even try to position your formations around it. Just accept that you're getting hit and hope Grace has enough MP for Aura.



Synbios chugs a needed potion. Good thing we have a bunch of these stocked up in the deals section of the shop.



I would love to stay and entertain you but please accept these fine fellows in my stead.

drat your eyes, you intend to escape! Where do you plan to slink off next?!

To visit yet another annoyance that must be dealt with... Palsis and I need to talk.

Pal... Palsis...?

After another turn of healing due to Fiale's Spark 2, he peaces out. If Synbios runs away from Fiale, Fiale will do this after a few turns, and we don't get the ship key. What does the ship key do? Significantly slow down the pace of scenario 2.



These guys are gonna hide in a corner now. Eldar and Ratchet have the last of the clustered enemies locked down, and those two masked monks on the other side don't aggro until you walk right up to them. Which means I'm using Eldar and Ratchet to kill them too.



They deserve a support, and Eldar can always use some extra damage. Ratchet is better for her since Eldar is melee and Ratchet is ranged, which makes it far easier for them to support each other while hitting the same target.



After that, we just clean up these guys who aren't much of a threat. That's it! Quite an anti-climatic last fight for a chapter. Honestly, it would have been much more fun and not impossibly difficult if we actually had to fight Fiale to completion.



Lord Conrad...

Please, hold on Lord Conrad...

What about... Bulzome...

Fiale ran before I could finish him.

Palsis is.... in... danger... Cough.. Ugh.. Dantares... Go with Synbios.... to Lookover...

I understand... We shall go there, my Lord... But before that we must take you to...

No.. no you cannot... I.. can no longer help you. Cooperate with... Palsis...

No... this cannot be....

You can't go... Please stay with us! I'm begging you, please... Please hold on...

Twenty years... It went so very quickly... Finally, I can rest.. Finally...

What...! Please do not say that... Please come back! We still need you!

It's time.. for me... to go... farewell... my son...



Lord Conrad dies. Synbios is now the lord of Flagard.




Masqurin... Grace... and Sir Dantares... what were you all doing...?

We did... the best we could... but even then... we were not able to save him.

I already... know all that... but... but... this is...

That's okay... I understand... You wanted to protect Lord Conrad. We all feel your loss.









Synbios and his allies returned to the Republic, where they were greeted by both citizens and high officials happy to see that they were safe. However, not everyone welcomed them, and they received some cold stares. The financial crisis of the Republic caused internal turmoil in Barrand. This severed the strong sense of unity among the Republican regions, as some lords resorted to radical activities. General Fafhard, whom they reluctantly fought because of a minsunderstanding, was defeated. With Synbios losing his father Conrad, he now stands along with everything resting on his shoulders...



NEXT TIME: Finally, a use for all this drat metal

Nephrite
Aug 18, 2006
[img]https://forumimages.somethingawful.com/images/newbie.gif[/img]



Lipstick Apathy

Oh man, you're about to get a great weapon for Synbios too, if I remember right. It also has one of the best (BEST) voice-acted lines in this game.

Rise... Phoenix.

vibratingsheep
Nov 2, 2013

Fudou, Gunzou. The Face of the Franchise Killer. 2004.


Nephrite posted:

Oh man, you're about to get a great weapon for Synbios too, if I remember right. It also has one of the best (BEST) voice-acted lines in this game.

Rise... Phoenix.

That's a spectacularly goodbad one, but the one that sticks out in my head is Can you withstand my ninja technique?

Cornwind Evil
Dec 14, 2004


Nothing will ever beat Now bear my arctic blast.

Though Spirits lend me your powers! comes close. It's not just badly done, but the tone is so horrendously WRONG that it completely alters the speaker's already limited characterization.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Part 25: I refuse to pronounce it “meeth-ril”



I know I've been updating at the speed of light these past two days, but these handful of fights are pushovers and there's something extremely important that we've all been waiting for.



Eldar forks over the ship key. Why does Zero need it?

Thank you, sister! I can now rescue Rogan.

Do you really have to go, again? Since Lord Synbios has lost his father, he needs more support than ever.

I understand that, my sister. It hurts me to see Lord Synbios in such pain, but...

You're needed by the Medion army. I understand. You do have consent from Lord Synbios, and it is important.

Benetram said your aiding the Medion army may lead to a peaceful future with the Empire.

If that is your decision, then you must hurry. I'm sure Prince Medion awaits you.

Kahn, I must return this to you.

Return something to me?



Yep, we're going to need that thing.

You're giving me this. With this, we should be able to destroy the barrier of the Bulzome high priest.

Once the Bulzome high priest headed out this way, I knew a clash with the Synbios army was inevitable. I intended to give this to you before that happened, but...

The Elbesem Orb will be a great help to us. We appreciate you giving it to us very much.

But you're giving this to us. Don't you need this when you go to the Medion army?

Kahn, it was yours in the first place.

Please do not worry. I got it at Elbesem, so feel free to take it with you. Well then, I'll be taking off now. Please take care of Lord Synbios for me.



Umm, the others have many things to deal with. We're not the only ones with heavy burdens.

That is certainly true, but I cannot believe what happened to Lord Conrad.

It must weigh on Lord Synbios's mind. Qe must go, despite the difficulty, to Lookover in north Aspinia.

I'm surprised to hear that Duke Palsis, who resigned his position in the Republic, is now in such a remote place.

I don't know much about Duke Palsis, but I've heard about Lookover. There's supposed to be a giant tower ruin there.

We of Flagard have gone to Lookover many times to transfer messages between Lord Conrad and Duke Palsis.

If Bulzome is heading for Duke Palsis, we should be chasing them, but everyone is grieving Lord Conrad's death. What are we to do?

Editing note, I erased 29 ellipses in that little scene. What the hell was it with translators thinking that it was an acceptable substitute for every piece of punctuation in the English language?



Please give me a few more moments.

I know, Masqurin. I, too, want to remain and take my time in saying goodbye to Lord Conrad.

Lord Conrad's last words, he told us to protect Palsis. You seem concerned, Sir Dantares,

Grace, I cannot lie to you. You are right. I worry with that high priest already ahead of us.

Even so, let's wait a little longer. Synbios knows the situation well. He's probably organizing his thoughts.




The words Synbios leaves to his father's coffin are known only to him.

Personally, I like to think he's promising to wring Fiale's neck.



Are we heading to Lookover?

To see Duke Palsis?

Correct. Dad gave us his last order. If Fiale has a head start on us, then that means...

Let's go to Lookover and defeat Fiale, the high priest of Bulzome, to avenge Lord Conrad's death!

Getting revenge for dad ghost will be great, but we have a few things to do in Flagard first. Now that people aren't locked up in the church, there's plenty of stuff for us to nab.






That's in Flagard castle alone. Oh, that last item we picked up?



A fourteen point attack jump! Hell yes! But don't think Synbios is getting away with all the prizes. By the time we're out of here, most of our army is going to be getting similar boosts.







Finally got our Running Pepper Pimento. Not sure who to use it on yet, but it's probably going to be Ratchet. Also, we're getting a lot of mithrils here. It's like the game is trying to tell us...



To go here.



Well, not because of that.



Because of this dude. Welcome to the blacksmith. Remember how I've been nabbing all these large and small mithrils during the game? Here's where we cash them in for fabulous prizes. The way it works is that we pick either a large mithril (for a weapon) or a small mithril (for an accessory), and then pick a character, and the blacksmith will create an item that the character can use. If it's a weapon, it'll choose their highest rank weapon; if it's an accessory it just picks any random accessory, since most of them are shared between classes anyway.

Here's the nice thing about mithril weapons in Shining Force 3: Unlike its prequel, there is no strict hierarchy of mithril weapons. Each weapon type only has three mithril weapons tops, and the attack spread between them is usually 2 or 3 points. The differences lie in the assorted bonuses they confer, from extra counter chance to magic boosting to entirely new critical attacks. While some mithril weapons are clearly better than others for certain classes (monk weapons are especially guilty of this), it's not a huge deal to get stuck with the wrong weapon. And none of them are so great that you need to savescum to get a gisarme or some giant knuckles.

That said, we don't need a mithril weapon for everyone, and thank god for it, because they typically come with a 5 digit price tag. Obright and Horst have been rocking mithril weapons for a few fights now, and Synbios' new sword can't actually be made from mithril but its power is on par. Dantares, Irene, Noon, and Eldar will all be finding mithril-tier weapons by the end of the chapter. Masqurin and Grace don't particularly need mithril weapons and will be finding equivalents in chapter 6 anyway. That leaves us with Hayward, Cybel, and Ratchet. With some good money management, we can actually swing this.



One of the problems with picking Ratchet is that anchors are the most expensive mithril weapons to forge. If we had kept Kahn or Frank, their weapons would have been half that price (though the tradeoff is that mithril fist weapons are underwhelming). 60% of our current funds are going to Ratchet, but this is where the 75% sellback value comes in handy.



A 9 point attack boost. Not quite as impressive as Synbios', but it's still something. The crash anchor also comes with a new critical attack and critical +10. Not bad at all.



Now we head to the item shop and huck some of the stuff we won't be using anymore, including Synbios' and Ratchet's old weapons. This is also convenient because it only takes leaving the blacksmith shop and reentering in order to finish the order. Place an order, sell some stuff, grab your item, place a new order, and repeat.



And upon returning, we get the loving ark halberd for Cybel! This thing not only has the highest attack of all the mithril halberds (but as previously mentioned, it's only 2 points higher than the weakest mithril halberd), but it comes with a critical attack and casts Spark 3 when used as an item! Holy poo poo! Not that the Spark 3 Cybel casts will be nearly as powerful as Masqurin or Noon throwing it around with their base affinities and mirrored supports, but more area damage is never bad.



Huck a few more items, and we get the strongest arrow for Hayward. It also grants +7 defense and comes with a critical attack. I swear, I didn't savescum at all and the RNG was just cracked when I was playing. The same time I capped this update, both shops gave me their deals immediately: A white ring (+10 DEF) and a rune tomahawk (same ranged axe that I'm never going to use). I turned them down, since we're going to be forging much better stuff.







Shuffling around accounts and balances some more, and we pick up replacements for all the mediocre accessories we've been wearing since chapter 2. Not pictured is the master ring that Ratchet is rocking. Now all we need are for Dantares and Eldar to pick up their weapons (Irene's is nice but entirely unnecessary) and we are ready to steamroll the rest of this game.




They are going to do everything they can to prevent us from reaching Lookver.

That vile sect is planning to pin us down here, while they kill Palsis.

Then we kill them where they stand!

There could be traps along the way, but we cannot turn back. Once more, into the fire noble warriors!

Traps, right. Because we all know how effective those are in Shining Force.




That's the entirety of the enemy that we can see right now.




New enemies. The boss is a caster type and therefore has lower defense. However, the lizardmen are only a 1 point upgrade on defense and HP each. Meanwhile, a third of my characters just jumped up in attack by double digit margins.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that this is going to be a brutal massacre.



Last fight, Hayward picked up his third and final rank in arrows.








I mean, we could attack with Cybel, but that's too easy.



For perspective, this is a screenshot of a centaur using a halberd to shoot lightning at a skeleton. If that's not metal, I don't know what is.



The damage isn't too bad either.



Meanwhile, this is the best the new masked monks can do in response.



Irene also sniffs out a small mithril to the side.



The masked monks also get poison as a critical now! With weapon advantage over Obright, they can do non-trivial damage, and if the entire lump of enemies attacked all at once, there might have been a problem. Might.



The critical attached to Hayward's new arrow.



It shoots rainbows.







This is how much damage Hayward does without a critical. He's not one-shotting enemies, but he's putting them into two-hit kill territory.



You know what? Screw it, let's just finish this map nice and fast.



Or they could try ambushing me with old enemies. Yawn.






Basically the real enemies retreat while all this junk spawns. The blood borns are repeating spawns, though I think there's a finite number. The pair of wyverns only pop up once. There's a third blood born spawn, but what the hell do I care at this point? My weak characters are the only ones incapable of killing them in one hit.



Eldar zips on in and picks this up on Irene's behalf.



Oh my god, Irene's going to start destroying enemies en masse too.



Oh yeah, let's get Hayward to deal with that wyvern problem.







From here on out, it's really just hammering on the respawning enemies, building up supports, and asking, “Hey, how much damage does Tornado 4 actually do?”





All those Ratchet supports I was farming up.



Well, why not give Irene's new duds a spin?



Not stellar, but not bad at all!



I'd say the absence of Fiale helped matters greatly.

Oh come on, we just got all these shiny new weapons. His 120 hit points are going to vanish like a magic trick.

Perhaps Fiale was absent because he is pursuing Palsis. That would be the logical guess.



Okay, so when I said I was really burning through these updates? It's also because these past few fights have been very fast and easy. The next two are doozies, almost as if Camelot designed them to not be brute forced with mithril weapons.

NEXT TIME: Comeuppance!

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."




The Ark Halberd is amazing and is a really good reason for any Halberdiers to get friendly with your wizards. When I tried replaying this about a year ago on my lovely laptop, I actually made both Dantares and Cybel use halberds, just so I could poo poo out more lightning.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

The Ark Halberd is amazing and is a really good reason for any Halberdiers to get friendly with your wizards. When I tried replaying this about a year ago on my lovely laptop, I actually made both Dantares and Cybel use halberds, just so I could poo poo out more lightning.

You know, I didn't even consider that as a possibility. I just assumed that item-based spells were flat in the way that previous Shining Forces were. I don't know why I thought that, when magic received such a major overhaul in this game.

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."




Oh yeah, I forgot the other reason that having infinite free Spark 3 is awesome: it lets you build tons of friendships fast with the characters that can use them.

Losem
Jun 17, 2003

Practicing shooting fundamentals.

You kind of glossed over the thing with the cut flower you get at the very start of the game. Basically the only purpose it serves is to have it in Synbios inventory and he leaves it on his dads coffin.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.


Dinosaur Gum

So how much mithril did you actually trade in, and how much do you have left?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



The ellipses thing is a common problem in amateur or rushed japanese-to-english translations. Here's an interesting post about it by a professional translator.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Losem posted:

You kind of glossed over the thing with the cut flower you get at the very start of the game. Basically the only purpose it serves is to have it in Synbios inventory and he leaves it on his dads coffin.

While this is actually a nice theory, I sold the cut flowers to the item shop a long time ago, and they're still sitting there in the deals section. The item does have a use, but it doesn't pop up until scenario 2.

Glazius posted:

So how much mithril did you actually trade in, and how much do you have left?

I used three large mithrils and six small ones. While that was all the small mithril I had, there's still 15 large mithrils left over. The game gives you way too many of them and I have no idea why.

Endorph posted:

The ellipses thing is a common problem in amateur or rushed japanese-to-english translations. Here's an interesting post about it by a professional translator.

Japanese has single period ellipses.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

I know it was two updates ago, but I'm just catching up on this LP and

inthesto posted:



The map this time is a bit funny. Synbios is sandwiched between a buttload of enemies, and Fiale is right in front of him. Once again, the AI shows us mercy, and the only enemy who's programmed to attack Synbios is Fiale, and that's only if we send Synbios at him.

Which we're going to do, of course.

So Shining Force 3 made us literally relive Shade Abbey, one of the least noteworthy maps from one of the worst chapters of the first game. The only real difference is magic and the fact that all the numbers are bigger.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Part 26: A hard bonus dungeon!

I told you guys the next few updates were doozies. I really wasn't kidding.

Synbios and company speed to Lookover. New town, which means first things first:







Time to loot some stuff! Unfortunately, we can't head back to Flagard, so any mithril we find for a while is going to stew in our inventory until we find another blacksmith.



The Evil Ring we found is cursed, and therefore mostly useless. Curse will randomly render turns useless, something I really don't like dealing with. There's a way to negate curses, but it also requires an accessory slot. This makes cursed weapons potentially viable, but cursed accessories just get hocked for cash.




One of the special deals in this town is another cursed ring. +10 ATK and +10 crit is so tempting and delicious, but I just spent all kinds of money making new accessories for everyone. Outside of this, nobody really says anything of interest. Also, the weapons shop is closed, but I don't really need those anymore.

All there really is for us to do here is to walk down that columned path where we found the Evil Ring.



Fiale seems to have just gone up the tower. If we hurry, we can still save Duke Palsis.

You got here a lot quicker than I expected, Synbios.



I was beginning to like you, Synbios, so it saddens me to end your life. Perhaps I'll keep your soul in a jar!

We have managed to catch up to High Priest Fiale. In Conrad's memory, we must protect Palsis. Now we shall avenge your father, Lord Synbios!



It's hard to tell, but the ring is actually a big tower that spirals counterclockwise. If we had a flying unit that could actually fight well, we could shortcut this entire thing by making a beeline for Fiale. However, since we're not playing Shining Force 2, we're going to have to take the long way around.



The other interesting thing about this map? You'll see those thieves at the lower-right. Yes, there's a bonus dungeon here, but Shining Force 3 doesn't wait for you to look at the ruins in order for the thieves to spawn. We have to run at that dungeon entrance from the very start, or we're going to lose all the loot in there. And believe me, there's some good stuff that we want at all costs.





New enemies. Harpies and cerberi have a modest bump in defense to (sort of) account for mithril weapons, and feature some annoying special attacks. Fiale got his original stats back – they were slightly lower when we tackled him in Flagard, but are nearly identical to when he was pretending to be Benetram. Still, we're not very concerned with his stats. It's his magic we have to worry about. More on that later.



Getting up stairs actually consumes extra movement. This causes a lot of congestion and slows us down when chasing the thieves. That's really the primary concern right now, since there's no time limit and Fiale is perfectly content to sit on his rear end rather than actually assassinating Duke Palsis.



The dungeon entrance is right around the corner, and the thieves jump in first thing. I'm going to be sending most of the army in there while keeping a few people outside to deal with the easy enemies and to protect Synbios.





Eldar and Cybel are annoyingly one square of movement short of getting in there, but at least Dantares catches them. Remember, the turn you enter the bonus dungeon, you don't get to move, so it's important to enter at the edge of your movement, if possible. The impetus is now on Dantares to rush and block off one of the exits.





The next turn, we get a bunch of people inside. You can see the centaurs and Eldar for mobility, Irene for healing, and Noon so we can beat on the thieves without killing them. If you squint closely at the minimap or at the last screenshot, there's two hollow spaces at the far right, one towards the middle and one towards the top. Those are the exits we need to block.



Unfortunately, the thief who breaks for the exit near the top has a much shorter route, and it's hard to catch him. Luckily, he only steals off with a small and a large mithril, neither of which are particularly important.




Then again, a few monsters spawn to block our path. This is really annoying. It's a good thing the thief we need to catch takes a very, very long route.




Hayward continues to assert dominance outdoors. Even without a critical, he comes very close to killing a wyvern in one hit.



I also send Horst and Obright into the dungeon to help mop up the random enemies scattered around inside.




Cybel helps clear a path for Dantares. While he could have hit the thief there, that would have done way too much damage and been potentially lethal.



Nothern thief loots this and makes a break for it. I let him go.



You can just imagine everyone outside just whistling and tapping their feet, waiting for the party inside to end.



Dantares takes a bit of a beating from all the monsters he had to break through in order to get to the exit. I didn't manage my inventory, so the potion is the only thing he's got. Not great to waste it here, but potions are still less important than the items I need to grab off the thief.



Thief go down the hole.



This +7 DEF weapon on Hayward is pretty loving unfair.



There we go! That's one of the goodies we want, a mithril lance for Dantares!



And that thief isn't leaving until Dantares gets it.



And that's the other thing. Noon will be beating this thief in the face until we shake all of it free from him.



At this point I save state, in case Noon somehow prematurely kills the thief with critical hits.



And Noon does pull of his rank 2 critical, but it doesn't do too much damage, so it's not an issue.



A lizardman creeps up on the outside party. Otherwise uninteresting, but Synbios did pick up his rank 3 critical, Mirage Dance.



And you know what makes Mirage Dance so awesome?





Because it's a loving sword rave. For reference, the rank 1 and 2 criticals were Synbios just shooting waves of nothing at the enemy. Sword rave is so much better and it owns.



Oh yeah, it one-shots the lizardman too.



The thief is going to fight for his life to get out, but only does 13 HP a pop to Dantares. That's little enough that Irene has enough time to take care of any medical concerns.




Meanwhile,




Noon actually has higher defense than Dantares. This is all thanks to the +10 DEF from the life ring.



Cybel spots a clue!



Clever... You saw through my ruse. If you are from the Momochi, I'll see to it that you will never turn me in. I am a ninja, rogue from the Momochi clan! Many have tried to bring me back. ...Are you not bounty hunters? Help me remain free, and in return I, Hagane, will use my skills as a ninja to help your cause.




And just like that, we have a ninja. Too bad ninjas are at their worst in Shining Force 3.





One more club to the thief's face and we pick up a new wand for Noon. This not only boosts defense but also will confer Wendigo as Noon's extra spell, which we absolutely want on him. I'll talk about what it does when we get the chance to see it.



Dantares finishes the thief off, and we scoot on out with all the stuff we wanted. The missing mithrils will not be particularly missed.




You can, however, accidentally still enter the ruins after it's “done”. While you can't recover any of the treasures, the purpose for this is to recruit Hagane if you haven't yet.



There's also a sharp slope right outside the dungeon entrance. It shortcuts a good portion of the map, but also creates even more congestion that the first stairway we dealt with. I generally choose to split my army between the shortcut and the long path, because who ever wants to give up killing enemies for experience and money?




The special critical granted by the ark halberd, appropriately titled “lightning”. I'm not sure if it scales off of attack power or magical affinity, but it sure does do a lot of damage!




If we use the slope to bypass half the map, then an ambush on the other side triggers. It screws with the flags, but it's not like the enemies here are a big deal.




A big picture overview of what's going on.




Cybel and the dwarves get the party started up top while everyone else takes the scenic route.




Believe it or not, Cybel's stats are more or less equivalent to Dantares' this playthrough. Not that Dantares has been a slouch, but one level puts him 2 points behind, and the weapon difference makes it another 2 points. This is an incredibly good run for Cybel, is what I'm saying. And that centaurs in this game are incredibly good.



Grace finally picks up Aura! Not that we've ever really needed it, but it will make life quite a bit easier.

When we pass the next staircase on the long path, a new face shows up.



Finally you show your face, Palsis!

If you are here, that must mean... Oh my, Lord Conrad! Tell me, is he all right?

My father's assassin stands before us, Palsis!

Since the Walcuray headed south, heralding the awakening of Bulzome, I feared this would happen. Now, your presence confirms my predictions.

Before Lord Conrad passed away, he told us to come to you, Duke Palsis, and protect you from Bulzome.

I made a promise to Conrad that if anything should ever happen to him, I would mentor Synbios. I prayed this day would never come.

“Mentor” is a pretty poor choice of words here. Synbios has been commanding the Republic's most dangerous army for quite some time now.

Unfortunately, that promise can't be kept now that I'm here!

And you went to the trouble of coming all the way out here to kill me. Fiale, high priest of Bulzome, how thoughtful of you.

But... you know my name? Your knowledge is indeed vast. All the more reason for our little chat.

I'm afraid your chatting requires blind obedience or brainwashing. Either way, I'd rather not, thank you.

Actually, Blind Obedience is pretty useful both in defending against aggro decks and getting the edge in aggro mirrors becau-

Oh wait, wrong game again.

If that's the case, join Synbios in the grave, my intellectual Duke Palsis!



Palsis shows up on the map. His stats are crap, but I don't think anyone actually bothers trying to hit him.



And after all that talking goes down, a few fliers descend on Synbios' head. While it may look careless to have Synbios sitting at half HP like this, I was intentionally conserving Irene's MP for reasons we'll see soon.




Not as bad as charm, since there's a chance that Synbios will hit an enemy, but it's still Muddle 2 levels of bullshit.



Well, that's fine. There's one more wyvern, but if all they do is love tap Synbios, we'll get throu-



Oh, come on. I believe this is the third time Synbios has died in the LP. The first time was off-camera during the very first fight. gently caress me if I can remember the second. Downgrading all those Synbios supports really does suck, though.

Also, in case you're wondering, no we cannot put Hagane in the army now. Even though he “joined”, we have to clear this fight before we can make use of him.



Well, we're back at the start. At least there's no nonsense about chasing thieves around, though the dungeon is still open if we want to chill in an empty cave for a bit. Eldar immediately flies up to lure down the harpy and wyverns that just ambushed Synbios. Strangely enough, Duke Palsis won't reappear on the map.




As we climb our way up again, I can't help but reflect how much more convenient things are with Aura. Irene barely has to spend MP now!



And good thing too, because Fiale is packing heat. It took us quite some time of tedious punching through enemies to get up here, so I've cut it straight to the boss. We've already seen Fiale's Spark 2 in action, but we're not too worried about that. Now that Grace has Aura, we can patch up that spell pretty easily, especially if Masqurin is there to boost Grace's magic power.





However, Grace can't get to Ratchet in time and we lose yet more support levels from him.



Here's the real reason why Irene is so much better than Kahn. All other stats are pretty irrelevant when faced with the prospect of Resist. It boosts your magic resist stats across the board. While most magic isn't so powerful that we're terrified of being one-shot by magic, Fiale brings the first counterexample to the board.




Comparing Masqurin's resists to Noon's. Guess which one got hit by Resist.



Now, Synbios has to bring back an old buddy. It's a good thing I remembered this, otherwise fighting Fiale would be much harder.







Where's your god now?

If we didn't do this, Fiale would be taking drastically reduced damage. Or none at all. I can't remember.





Noon softens up the mooks for Eldar and Hayward to clean up. Without healing or poison, now it's just an unrestrained beatdown on Fiale.






Fiale answers by casting Wendigo 2 on Synbios. This is what I was worried about, and without Resist, that would have killed Synbios outright. Why is it so powerful? Well, up until this point, all the magic we've seen does a base amount of damage applied to all enemies in the area, regardless of how many there are. Noon's Spark 2 hit everyone for ~25 damage, and would have done so if it only hit one or eight targets. Wendigo, on the other hand, is a summon. Summons have a single pool of damage, and spreads it evenly against all targets in its area. Synbios would have been hit for about 50 points of damage if he didn't have resist, but two targets would have taken half of that each, three targets would have divided it further, etc.

Needless to say, summons are incredibly powerful. If you can isolate a single target, a summon will more often than not wipe them out in one hit. If it's a boss, expect it to do up to a third of their total life. Oh, and remember how Fiale's summon is Wendigo?





It especially helps that Wendigo is an ice spell, and that's Noon's highest base affinity. I can't wait to see the kind of destruction this unleashes once he's got full ranks in wands and full support with Masqurin.




Without fearing getting one-shot by Fiale's Wendigo, it's just a matter of popping the Elbesem Orb on his head and hitting him a few times. With the mithril weapons and a little help from Irene, Fiale is quite the chump.




A little more insurance from Irene. Hell, even Obright has some decent resists after getting buffed. If you'll recall, a few of his base resists are negative.



Hey, let's have Noon respond in kind! He can only cast Wendigo 1, since he's yet to get his third rank in wands. Also, this is without support from Masqurin.



Not great, considering he only hit a single target, but I believe Fiale has some pretty serious resists himself.



Anyways, I think it's time for Synbios to get his revenge. And there's only one proper way for him to get his revenge. With a...





I did not foresee... that Synbios' forces would be so powerful...



That laugh! Basanda!

Basanda? Oh, I remember! The one who made Spiriel destroy the statue. It's that terrible woman high priest.

Hurry up and finish him off, Dantares!

Duke Palsis, did you say finish him off?

If you want to defeat the Bulzome priest, now is the time! Bulzome has almost awakened! It won't be this easy next time!

It is not in my nature to kill an enemy who is down... But, I see your point. So be it.

I knew you wouldn't wimp out at a critical time, Dantares.

Quickly, Dantares! Do it now! Another priest of Bulzome is coming to save him!



Not captured: Basanda summons a lightning bolt and Palsis dodges it.

That was just my way of saying hello. I applaud you for dodging the attack.

Don't let my age fool you, priest. I'm a veteran of many struggles, I like to think I've learned a trick or two.

Palsis of Aspinia... What an interesting man. I like you. Synbios' forces have just fought Fiale, and haven't the strength to face me. Isn't that right, little Synbios?



That was just a warning shot. She could have easily destroyed us. We have no choice but to sit and watch.

Clever boy. Palsis gets a star. if you want to save your pitiful lives, don't even blink.

You know Basanda, you might want to think twice before you do that because...




We ran out of luck this time.... Two Bulzome High Priests are a bit much for us to handle.

Dammit, Fiale got away! What's all of this about, Palsis?

I understand, Synbios. I will explain those things your father was hiding. Come follow me...

NEXT TIME:

Now that we have another member of our party, get voting on who you want to sit out!

Raitzeno
Nov 24, 2007

What? It seemed like
a good idea at the time.


Ratchet, you can't stay alive to save your life. Hagane, let's see what you've got!

Shitenshi
Mar 12, 2013


Yeah, I didn't even know the Elbesem Orb was relevant past that Chapter 3 zombie battle until I found the internet. Bulzome priests aren't invincible without it, they're just a pain in the rear end.

gently caress off Ratchet, let's see Hagane.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

If summons exist in this game, does that mean eventually we'll be getting Sorcerors of our own, or are they stuck as just weapon-granted spells here?

Also, we can't get rid of Ratchet this quickly after we dropped 15k on his flimsy rear end. Let's get rid of Dorf #2 instead. I can't even remember his name.

ChrisAsmadi
Apr 19, 2007
:D

Let's be rid of Horst.

vibratingsheep
Nov 2, 2013

Fudou, Gunzou. The Face of the Franchise Killer. 2004.


Hagane in for his ninja technique.

Ratchet out because it's not like anyone in the Force would miss him.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

and then we'll have pancakes to celebrate and I'll be like EURGNOMEHREUGN.



Well you already said that Ninjas kinda suck in this game so I guess I was too hopeful in thinking we'd have just been gifted Slade 2.0

OH well, I say we kick out Horst and see if Hagane can pull his weight

Khisanth Magus
Mar 30, 2011

Vae Victus

KataraniSword posted:

If summons exist in this game, does that mean eventually we'll be getting Sorcerors of our own, or are they stuck as just weapon-granted spells here?

Also, we can't get rid of Ratchet this quickly after we dropped 15k on his flimsy rear end. Let's get rid of Dorf #2 instead. I can't even remember his name.

Just weapon spells until Chapter 2, when we get a Spirit Magician/Summoner character

Bye Ratchet, hello Hagane

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

KataraniSword posted:

If summons exist in this game, does that mean eventually we'll be getting Sorcerors of our own, or are they stuck as just weapon-granted spells here?

Also, we can't get rid of Ratchet this quickly after we dropped 15k on his flimsy rear end. Let's get rid of Dorf #2 instead. I can't even remember his name.

I don't think this counts as a spoiler maybe it does!, but we don't pick up a summoner until disk 2, but there's no shortage of item with summoning spells on them.

Also, I think I've mentioned this before, but keeping level 1 spears around for Dantares and Cyble to use against thieves is a pretty good idea, as without supports they arn't going to get oneshotted.

Also, also, this got pointed out in TBs LP but there are some interesting things to be learned if you go back and talk to the citizens of Lookover after the fight.

Also, also, also you don't have to keep an item equiped to use its magic ability, so the spells on the cursed rings can be cast without getting your characters cursed. Of course most of your physical attackers have lovely affinities, but since you arn't keeping secondary weapons on people, sometimes you just need to reach out and touch somebody.

Also^4 bench Horst for a map so people can how terrible the far east character types are in this game.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


Khisanth Magus posted:

Just weapon spells until Chapter 2, when we get a Spirit Magician/Summoner character

Ardeem posted:

I don't think this counts as a spoiler maybe it does!, but we don't pick up a summoner until disk 2, but there's no shortage of item with summoning spells on them.

Not a huge deal, but I do believe some people would like everything possible in the following discs to be completely new, so thanks for hiding the pretty-much-not-spoilers.

Also, I shouldn't say that ninjas are that bad, as they're decent utility characters in the game where utility characters are at their best. It's mostly that their predecessors are Hanzou, Slade, and Ruburan, who are some of the most unfair characters of all time.

legoman727
Mar 13, 2010

by exmarx


Okay, Palsis is too competent to be a good guy. I'm waiting for the inevitable betrayal.

Serifina
Oct 30, 2011

So... dizzy...


Bench Horst.

Mountaineer
Aug 29, 2008

Imagine a rod breaking on a robot face - forever

Might as well get rid of Ratchet.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.


Dinosaur Gum

I do like that the Elbesem Orb is still useful. ...I don't like that they don't tell you, you just start doing poo poo damage to Fiale and figure it's just because he's a boss.

Khisanth Magus
Mar 30, 2011

Vae Victus

Glazius posted:

I do like that the Elbesem Orb is still useful. ...I don't like that they don't tell you, you just start doing poo poo damage to Fiale and figure it's just because he's a boss.

A couple updates ago posted:

Kahn: You're giving me this. With this, we should be able to destroy the barrier of the Bulzome high priest.

They do say to use it to get rid of his barrier.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Khisanth Magus posted:

They do say to use it to get rid of his barrier.

It's surprising how few people can mentally associate "this will help us pierce his barrier" with "use this as an item to do more damage" unless the boss is either invincible otherwise, or unless the game blatantly spells it out.

Like, this is a common trend, spanning multiple RPGs.

It doesn't help that this wouldn't be the first time the Shining Force series demanded that you cart around a useless item solely for the sake of plot. (Hello, Orb of Light!)

inthesto
May 12, 2010

There is a point where we needed to stop, and we have clearly passed it.

BUT LET'S KEEP GOING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


KataraniSword posted:

It doesn't help that this wouldn't be the first time the Shining Force series demanded that you cart around a useless item solely for the sake of plot. (Hello, Orb of Light!)

Explain please, because I am a total Shining Force nerd, and I can't figure out what you're talking about.

Joey McChrist
Aug 8, 2005

I'M VINCENT KENNEDY MCMAHONDROID DAMMIT


Guntz looks upon you with shame, bench the gently caress out of Ratchet and pull in Hagane

inthesto posted:

Explain please, because I am a total Shining Force nerd, and I can't figure out what you're talking about.

From the first one, you pick up the Orb of Light in the catacombs underneath the magic town in the 2nd Chapter and cart that useless thing around until I think the 6th/7th chapter?

Joey McChrist fucked around with this message at Mar 8, 2014 around 00:02

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Joey McChrist posted:

From the first one, you pick up the Orb of Light in the catacombs underneath the magic town in the 2nd Chapter and cart that useless thing around until I think the 6th/7th chapter?

To clarify, you get it in the second battle of the 2nd chapter in the first game. It is used in exactly two places to trigger an Exposition Ghost: Right after the aforementioned battle, and near the end of the 7th chapter. It continues to sit in your inventory, unremovable, for the entire game. The best you can do is shunt it off onto someone who's permabenched, but on certain minimalist runs that becomes impossible since you don't get more than your minimal 12-member force.

The Dry Stone in Shining Force 2 is similarly bad, but at least you have the Caravan in that game.

And then there's the titular Sword of Hajya, which sits useless in your protagonist's inventory from near the beginning of the game all the way to the very final battle in said game, just so that you can foist it off onto your one-battle party member.

KataraniSword fucked around with this message at Mar 8, 2014 around 00:21

Stanfield
Feb 2, 2008

...Can we have the radio?


Ninjas in Shining Force games are always so disappointing. Ruburan and Hanzou in the GBA remake are the good ones, to the point of being broken. Not Slade though, Slade sucks and is bad.

Anyway bench Ratchet for being slow and boring and bad at living and stick in Hagane for being not those things.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

alcharagia
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


Bench Dantares, stick in Hagane.

I'm never going to stop trying.

  • Locked thread
«26 »