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Hello goons I haven't posted on SA in forever here are pictures of a This is Nora:  Nora is a border collie with just a bit of Australian Shepherd in her. Wasn't a huge fan of the backyard breeder we got her from (all the pups were covered with fleas  ) but we fell in love with her markings. Here she is after a good bath and some flea treatment: I had a golden retriever growing up, and when she was a puppy she loved this table. I had to recreate that photo here:  She definitely has the "border collie stare"  ...but isn't a huge fan of the dog park yet. Too many big dogs that are rather intimidating:  Huh? What?  Edit I forgot one HI 
Thunder God Biden fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 12, 2015 |
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Nov 12, 2015 17:49
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So my girlfriend and I have a 10 month old Australian Shepherd who's super friendly towards other dogs. I took him to the dog park today and a dog about his size, maybe 50 to 60 pounds came in. Our dog ended up chasing him down and kinda jumping and trying to nip/bite his neck repeatedly. It didn't look like he was trying to hurt him or anything. I've never seen him do this to any other dog. It was weird because he was playing with the smaller dogs just fine until a dog his size showed up. I pretty much held on to him until he calmed down but then he did it again so I decided to call it a day. I assume it's because he's a herding dog but does this behavior become more prevalent as Aussies age or something?
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Nov 16, 2015 22:13
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You said your dog "ended up" behaving inappropriately after the other dog "showed up". Did anything else happen in between, or did yours literally just see the other dog from across the park and run over to it and start nipping at it's neck?
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Nov 16, 2015 23:21
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The dog came in and ran into the dog park. My dog chased after him and nipped his neck. The other dog was just running around not really being aggressive or anything. It didn't look like he was trying to get away from my dog and he looked pretty content while running around. He didn't seem to be worried about my dog at all.
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Nov 16, 2015 23:54
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Herding dogs can and will try to herd other dogs at the dog park. Some other owners are cool with it but some aren't. If your dog is making someone else uncomfortable you should either distract your dog in another part of the park or leave. On the flip side my local dog park used to have Saturday poodle owner meet ups and my cattledog would herd the poods around the park and all the poodle owners thought it was hilarious.
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Nov 17, 2015 00:25
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The fact that you were monitoring your dog's behaviour and decided to remove yourselves from the park when you thought it was a problem puts you ahead of a good chunk of dog park users in my eyes. While some owners may be okay with their dogs being herded like this, my dog would not be. She would ask your dog to stop by first appearing submissive. If it continued, she would start to growl, get her hackles up, then start barking, inhibited biting, lunging and try to chase your dog off. It looks really scary, and often people think she's aggressive. My dog has very little tolerance for other dogs being in her space, and her space is quite large. Other dogs might be fine with it, but you never know. Obviously yours loves to herd. Perhaps you could give him an outlet to do this in a safe way, like in herding classes or with Treibball. Skip to 3:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J23L1k7mS0 A Lone Girl Flier fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 04:11
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Dance dog dance I think you can see the Timbit I have stashed in my back pocket...
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Nov 18, 2015 17:37
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pupdate:  Also terrible (vertical) video She's ~12 weeks now and learning quickly. She's still kind of chewy/bitey, but it's nothing unexpected, especially with the breed, and she's actively trying to be better. Overall she's terrific, super cute, and is going to be a great dog as she grows up.
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Nov 29, 2015 22:56
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She's adorable  Meanwhile I visited my parents again a bit back, many pictures were taken:  SO FLUFFY     He's basically like a fluffy shadow for my mother. A fluffy shadow that occasionally ambles over to get scritchies before he returns to keep an eye on her.   Greedy little fucker will act super cute if he thinks you have food and/or rubs for him.   Outside, alert as gently caress. Everything out of the ordinary must be monitored and reported on. I tried playing fetch - he likes to run after the stick but is too lazy to bring it back! His fur is kind of slightly matty - he's shedding like mad and my mother tries to brush him but he hates that. So far the most success we've had is by her grooming him while I stuff his face with treats - he's super food motivated so me plying him with stinky bits of dried tuna (his favorite) will have him somewhat tolerate the brushing for a while.
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Dec 3, 2015 12:07
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This dog is finally beginning to earn her keep! We did a commercial shoot yesterday. Day off work? Playing with dog? Getting paid for it? Sure why not?  
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Dec 9, 2015 14:25
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This thread needs a bump because these are the best drat dogs. 
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Feb 8, 2016 18:05
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Breaking dispatch from the dog park:
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Feb 8, 2016 18:16
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I don't know why I didn't know there was a herding dog thread until right now.
Beet Wagon fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 23:15
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So majestic E: eventually he was actually able to see  Edit #2: oh my goodness I took Sterling to the beach today and it was so hot and the water looked so nice I waded in and he not only followed me in, but deep enough that he was actually swimming. So proud of my dumb dog. Of course his breeder (who I cannot seem to shake off for the life of me) doesn't want him ever swimming in the sea because aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh his COAT it might DAMAGE it. Get lost, lady. My dog is ACTION DOG. Tamarillo fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 10, 2016 03:15
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I guess if beet wagon is posting here I need to post his crazy eyed aussie's brother from another mother
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Apr 18, 2016 17:42
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Jymmybob posted:pupdate: I don't think either of my ACDs will ever be completely over being mouthy, but they definitely don't hurt me anymore. Playing hands-on games with them (goofing around like 'got your leg'), as soon as they cross the mouthing line to pain, I yip LOUD and stop playing. It's how they play with each other and I like being able to be goofy with them. I've noticed such a change in demeanor from 1 to 2 years old. They're still sharky toddlers, but they've definitely become more sweet and we're able to walk by some dogs without barking like maniacs.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:40
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I have a 9ish year old ACD and his favorite way to play is wrasslin' wherein we try to flip him on his back while he bites the crap out of our arms.
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Apr 19, 2016 23:14
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WRASSLIN'! Sometimes we'll be playing rough and starling will bite my arm and then realize like "Warning! Human skin! Human skin!" and stop in her tracks. The other one will just "apologize" after she definitely nips so hard she leaves marks on your skin.
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Apr 19, 2016 23:17
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Pistol has spotted all of his agility gear in my car's trunk and he's now amped. So now tomorrow morning I get to do a three hour drive with a dog squeaking in excitement in the back seat. I'll be surprised if I make it to the venue without dropping him on the side of the road somewhere.
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Apr 22, 2016 03:39
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Hello from Savitskaya (and Bob) 15 weeks old today and I haven't gotten more than 6 hours sleep in weeks  .
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Jun 5, 2016 00:18
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Just out of hospital?
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Jun 5, 2016 02:53
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She broke her radius a few weeks ago and had a plate put in. However she's about to have her stitches out and has hardly a limp anymore when I take her to the yard to use the restroom.
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Jun 7, 2016 16:21
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Hey this thread is a little dead, but anyone have insight into running with herding dogs. I just started a few weeks ago with some varying results (two ACDs, both two years old and healthy).
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Jul 9, 2016 03:21
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Mine did C25K with me, then I hurt my foot and my doctor was like "no more running" so now I bike with him. Even if you're an experienced runner, if your dog has just started he isn't. Even if you don't need it I would suggest going through C25K with the dog(s) to get them in shape to run longer distances with you. Make your dog poop before you go for a run, running with a poop bag is the literal worst. Also invest in a hands-free running leash.
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Jul 9, 2016 03:49
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:I have a 9ish year old ACD and his favorite way to play is wrasslin' wherein we try to flip him on his back while he bites the crap out of our arms. pupdate: it's always wrasslin' but she's consistently in control so it's all fun and games. Also she's pretty much a cat in a dog body
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Jul 24, 2016 04:15
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I have a question for people with collie-and-sheltie-type things regarding temperament. When I was researching shelties before I made a call to get one, I read quite a bit about temperament - generally what I read was that they are usually a bit reserved but outright nervousness is considered a fault. So when I bought my puppy Sterling home I was expecting him to be a bit hyper-aware of everything around him, and we did a lot of work trying to desensitise him to the big scary world - walking him on busy roads, exposing him to weird poo poo, standing outside of supermarkets etc. The problem is that despite the work we did and continue to do with him, he is what I would describe to be a nervous wreck. When he is hanging out with us around the house or going on walks in not hugely built up areas he's fine; but there are some areas (like for example this one busy street and outside the supermarket) he just cannot handle no matter how much desensitisation work we do, and he skitters away in a panic over a bunch of things like unfamiliar loud noises, new people getting up in his grill (tons of works on this), flags and flaglike objects (like buddhist monk robes) and it takes him about seriously about 10 visits to a new house before he is comfortable enough to chill out and stop pacing. I took him to the vet about 2 months ago - a new vet so nowhere he'd been before - and he tried to squash himself under the waiting room chair and ended up in a quivering heap on my lap. Part of me wonders how much of this is nature versus nurture though, because I feel like we've hit a wall in terms of what work we can do to help him vs just how his brain is made. I've got a generally negative view of his breeder and I know that all of his litter are similarly neurotic, especially compared with other more chill shelties I've seen. I don't know that the breeder has a good measure on the temperament of her dogs because I don't think they're walked (plot of land to run on) and don't leave the house except for shows so they never leave their comfort zone except when strangers come over (and they are very suspicious of strangers which I thought was just the whole reserved trait showing). She's also a dodgy breeder for a number of other reasons which I found out after getting him so yeah. So sorry for the slight incoherence here and this is probably a dumb question, but is it possible that some of the nervousness is just down to bad breeding? Or is this just a sheltie-collie-sort-of-dog kind of thing? I know border collies can get neurotic as well. What else can I do beside continuing the slow grind of desensitising him to each new trigger when we find them? To be clear we love him to bits and can work around his problem areas pretty easily to make sure he still gets exercised (and he looooves other dogs) but it makes me sad that he's so easily spooked and it makes it a pain in the rear end when other people look after him. E: Sterling is now nearly 2 years old, so we've been working on him for a while. We've done obedience with him and he's highly socialised with other dogs so he's really confident in that regard at least. Tamarillo fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 06:26
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Have you considered medication? A lot of nervous dogs respond well to xanax. It seems like you've tried everything so it might be time to talk to a vet about getting some meds to help calm him down.
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Jul 24, 2016 13:18
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What you're describing is pretty typically a Sheltie thing. That's not to say that it's an acceptable thing, by any means. It drives me crazy. A lot of breeders & buyers misinterpret what "reserved" means when the standard describes the breed's temperament. I think you probably hit the nail on the head when you note that your dog's sire and dam likely live a pretty sheltered life and the breeder hasn't exactly been discerning when pairing dogs. Sometimes confident dogs do throw under-confident puppies, but in Shelties I see it as a more endemic issue. They can be such cool, bold, sassy dogs, but on the other end of the spectrum they can kind of be messes. It's a shame. You can still help him learn to cope with his anxiety day to day, and you shouldn't write him off. You can still make an impact on how he deals with the world. Unfortunately it'll just be a bit more difficult for you than most. Meds may help. Chat with a veterinary behaviourist about your issues and possible solutions.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:44
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Thanks for the responses. The only suggestion even faintly medical we've had so far is an adaptil collar but I'd not got one because his winter coat is out in full and there's so much boof in his ruff at the moment I wasn't sure it would get close enough to his actual skin to wor properly. I'm definitely not writing him off but it's a relief to know that it's not necessarily just that I'm doing something wrong - shelties are not common here so I don't have a lot to compare him to. Luckily I'm studying at the one veterinary university in the country so while behaviourists aren't common generally I am sure I can find one here to have a consult with. Thanks!
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Jul 25, 2016 02:41
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We had a sheltie when I was a kid, and he was an exceedingly nervous dog when we got him. He was owned by a friend of my mom's who was going through a nasty divorce, and we ended up taking him because she couldn't cope with him and the kids at the same time. Anyway, he was an absolute mess when we took him, but he turned out ok. Mom never gave up on him, and we kept socializing him with both other animals and people. It took a few years, but he got better. He was a sweet guy that I still miss a lot.
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Jul 25, 2016 03:06
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I have a 1.5 year old ACD, who recently started showing random acts of aggression(?) to friends and family. She only started doing it at about the 1 year mark, and only did it to my brother, but is now doing it to pretty much anyone except my mom (her absolute favorite person in the world because she always comes with treats & toys), and myself. She does this thing where she kind of pins my brother down. She'll act totally sweet, crawl into his lap all smiles, lay on her back for belly rubs, get said belly rubs but when he stops she goes nuts, bares her teeth and nips at his hands. She never breaks the skin - it just looks scary. She's started to do it to other people as well. I had her overnight at a friend's house recently and she did the same exact thing to a friend's girlfriend, who she had only met one time before. Recently, while on vacation, she nipped at a friend's son for seemingly no apparent reason. He reached the top of a flight of stairs, and she started jumping up to nip at his hands. Then minutes later, nipped my friend's grandmother and left a pretty good bruise on her finger. When she started to do it, I'd put her in time out (the bathroom) which didn't seem to curb it much at all. She'd bark a lot while in there, scratch at the door, and chill out for a few hours, but the behavior itself didn't seem to stop. While at my friend's house, after she nipped at his girlfriend, he grabbed her by the scruff and very sternly told her "NO," after she bit him, which seemed to work only when he was in close proximity to the dog. I'm kind of at a loss at what to do. I'm leaning towards trying a shock collar, because it worked so well for teaching her the boundaries of our property, but I'm worried that she will think the stimulation is coming from the person she's being randomly aggressive to and bite harder. I've avoided this option because I think it'll be so tough for her to pair the unacceptable behavior with the shock. I'm kind of at a loss for why she just randomly snaps and goes into nippy, growl, bare teeth mode. I'm thinking that it's a social thing that she's trying to establish herself as the alpha of the pack? I love the poo poo out of this dog, and will do whatever it takes to fix the problem. However, it worries me that she is going to hurt someone, and makes it difficult to relax when I take her places with my friends/family. She only goes for hands, though, so she can be kind of disabled if you just stand up and put your arms straight up in the air. She is otherwise a very sweet dog. When meeting strangers she almost immediately barrel rolls onto her back at their feet for belly rubs, but I always worry that the threat is there for her to flip and start nipping. She gets plenty of exercise on a daily basis. When I work, I have family that visits the house to take her out and play frisbee/ball. And recently, when she bit my friend's bubby, she had played ball/frisbee, chased birds, and hosed around at the beach for almost the entire day. This is my first ACD/herding dog, so I'm looking for advice on what to do from those of you that are more experienced with this breed/type of dog. SpankyG fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 13:47
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It is absolutely not a dominance thing. ACDs are bitey dogs by nature so her behavior isn't surprising. Mine likes to play by biting the poo poo out of our arms. You're on the right track by immediately removing her biting target and putting her in timeout when she's biting you, the key here is for everyone in her life to be consistent about her consequences for biting. ACDs thrive on consistency and routine.
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Aug 8, 2016 14:52
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First thought is that you need someone to come in to address your particular situation 1 on 1. This behaviour is (obviously) dangerous and inappropriate, and is (apparently) escalating. Which means that something you're doing is not working, and you may need an extra pair of trained eyes to show you how to approach it. Here are some of my thoughts in bullet form. - If she solicits attention in laps, then snarls, stop letting her on your lap. At least until you figure out what is triggering her so you can avoid her. Is it resource guarding? Is she over stimulated? Is she hurt? Is she trying to solicit play? - Shock collars are a potentially dangerous tool in this situation for the reason you mentioned. Using one could cause the situation to escalate and grow more dangerous. Plus unless you have impeccable timing and consistency, using one is sort of unfair to your dog;. Your dog should know exactly why it is being punished and know exactly what it should be doing instead. These two criteria are surprisingly difficult to attain for dog owners who are mostly just concerned with creating a happy family pet. - If the dog is out at social events, use a leash. It's all about stopping the bad behaviour before it starts. Shock collars are reactionary, and in dangerous situations, you need to be more proactive. If something is rehearsed, it gets better and more entrenched in the dog's behaviour patterns. Biting is not something you want your dog to get better at. - Work on keeping arousal low in the house. Outside is for play and excitement. Inside is for sleeping and relaxing. Set up an exercise pen or baby gate in a common area so the dog can chill with you guys, but isn't in your way. Offer plenty of chews, toys and other things she can self-entertain with. - Read a bit of the Dog Training Megathread. It's OP is a bit dated now, but it should still be useful to you. - Again, hire a professional.
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Aug 8, 2016 15:02
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You definitely need to get a professional and have someone actually see this behavior and help you work through it before the dog hurts someone. Pinning her or scruffing her is just going to make her come back harder or get more ramped up. ACDs are bred to get hit by bulls and come back harder, physical punishments just amp them up more and make it more likely for them to redirect onto you. It sounds like she's a young ACD that gets over excited and starts biting which really isn't uncommon at all. I walk away immediately when my dog rolls on his back with the crazy face on because I know when he gets over the top and starts mouthing and punching. He really needed to learn to control himself and it required a lot of time outs when he got over the top before he figured out how to keep a clear head when excited. Keep your pup on leash around people and really keep a close eye on her to remove her before she reaches the point of nipping. Really, really become observant and learn her "tells" before she goes full on crazyface. She might just not be able to handle social events right now and should stay home for everyone's safety and happiness. Or at least bring a crate with you and give her some chill out time by herself regularly. Again, talk to a trainer who can observe the behavior in person. This is just my interpretation as someone who owns a big crazy ACD mix with a bite history.
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Aug 8, 2016 17:28
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Aug 8, 2016 23:16
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What a good dog.
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Aug 8, 2016 23:30
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It is reassuring hearing that this behavior is not uncommon for her breed. I got her with a pretty good understanding of what to expect. This behavior just baffles me because it seems like she just gets really bitchy in seconds for no reason. It seems different from normal bitey play. My brother and I both wrestle with her sometimes, and she's got pretty good bite inhibition during play. She's also very good with stopping the wrestle-play on our terms, when we say "Stop." She can be a total sweetheart when she's comfortable, and is insanely smart and athletic. If she's in the right mind set, she picks up new cues in minutes. She has some weird neuroses though. Opening windows sends her into full alert for some reason, where she'll start barking, and pulls your hand away from the window if she can reach. Trash cans are also her mortal enemy. ACD's are unlike any other dog I've taken care of. She's a pain in the rear end but I love the poo poo out of her. We've worked with a few trainers and only one worked really well with her. Unfortunately, she moved to Texas  . I contacted my vet, who recommended a behaviorist that we're going to follow-up with. Thanks for the input! I'll post back with progress. I've mostly creeped in this forum, but it's been a huge help.Here's the lunatic in question (Her name is Arwen): pup  hi  goofy roofer  finally content after hours and hours of beach fun 
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Aug 18, 2016 22:29
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Mr Grumpy never had a chance.
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Aug 19, 2016 00:04
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It was about at that age that one of my ACDs figured out how to let herself out of a crate. And then let the other dog out of the crate. They're like sharp little toddlers in an elaborate Halloween costume. I have to say, the temperament change between the first and second year is huge, and very welcome.
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Aug 19, 2016 00:07
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Eponine posted:It was about at that age that one of my ACDs figured out how to let herself out of a crate. And then let the other dog out of the crate. They're like sharp little toddlers in an elaborate Halloween costume. When I got my second heeler I put him in an airline crate behind a baby gate to keep the dogs separated while I was at work. Every day I would come home to two dogs greeting me at the door. I gave up on the crating thing pretty quick. Heelers are the best
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Aug 19, 2016 01:37
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