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Demon_Corsair
Mar 22, 2004

Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

Has anyone ever tried carna4? The rep was at the pet store and handed me a few sample packs. Since I'm hunting for a new food I figured I would give it a shot.

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HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


Demon_Corsair posted:

Has anyone ever tried carna4? The rep was at the pet store and handed me a few sample packs. Since I'm hunting for a new food I figured I would give it a shot.

The website hits all the highs of the current fads. I'm glad their AAFCO profile is at least good, but I don't like that they say that giant breed dogs won't overgrow on their food because it's "natural."

The obsession with "sprouted grains" is also odd. If it helps them to get the nutrient levels they need, great. As far as people are concerned that's still a questionable benefit.

I could nitpick for awhile on the science claims, but it looks like a fine food. However, if you need to add things to get your dog to tolerate it, it's not the right food.

oddeye
Jul 24, 2005



We sell Carna4 at my shop and it is extremely expensive. $149.95 for a 26lb? Bag I think.

Curtis of Nigeria
Jan 9, 2009


I just read that Del Monte Foods bought Natural Balance. NB is what I feed to my dog... possibility of major changes to ingredients?

oddeye
Jul 24, 2005



Curtis of Nigeria posted:

I just read that Del Monte Foods bought Natural Balance. NB is what I feed to my dog... possibility of major changes to ingredients?

I'd be surprised if they made any changes to the food. Especially after what Mars did to the Nutro brand a couple years back after they bought them. They reduced the amount of lamb in the product, making it a rice first ingredient panel as opposed to the lamb first it had been. They had a lot of backlash and they ended up putting it back in months later.

That being said, I just read that Nutro has the best selling L&R I'm the states, so who knows.

oddeye fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 18, 2013

oddeye
Jul 24, 2005



So remember when I said Natura would probably come out of this latest recall with higher standards and a greater diligence towards making sure their foods are safe?

Yeah well they made me look like an rear end in a top hat.

Another recall was just issued on all food and treats with expiration dates prior to June 10, 2014.

Again, salmonella found in the food by the FDA, which would require them to only withdraw a couple of days worth of food, but they are recalling everything manufactured after the previous recall.

My boss is livid and is thinking about not carrying Natura anymore.

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


RECALL ALERT!

Good Ol' Natura is at it again! Still only dry foods, still for more salmonella:

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm357630.htm

Whelp looks like they suck at dry food. No wet foods affected.

Malalol
Apr 4, 2007

I spent $1,000 on my computer but I'm too "poor" to take my dog or any of my animals to the vet for vet care. My neglect caused 1 of my birds to die prematurely! My dog pisses everywhere! I don't care! I'm a piece of shit! Don't believe me? Check my post history in Pet Island!


NB as assured folks that they wont be making any changes..theyre still in charge, but DM will be handling marketing and blahblahblah. Thats what they say anyway.


I got the email about the natura recall..and thought, Huh? Werent they JUST recalled? Maybe its a late email.... oh boy.

Demon_Corsair
Mar 22, 2004

Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

HelloSailorSign posted:

The website hits all the highs of the current fads. I'm glad their AAFCO profile is at least good, but I don't like that they say that giant breed dogs won't overgrow on their food because it's "natural."

The obsession with "sprouted grains" is also odd. If it helps them to get the nutrient levels they need, great. As far as people are concerned that's still a questionable benefit.

I could nitpick for awhile on the science claims, but it looks like a fine food. However, if you need to add things to get your dog to tolerate it, it's not the right food.

Hilariously, their stuff is also kosher as well as organic.

There was apparently a price drop on all their stuff, but even at new prices its still $3-4 dollars more for a 3lb bag vs a 4lb bag of Fromms.

Fromm has such ridiculous names that I almost want to not buy them because it seems ridiculous. Beef fritatta? Really?

Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 18, 2013

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


Malalol posted:

NB as assured folks that they wont be making any changes..theyre still in charge, but DM will be handling marketing and blahblahblah. Thats what they say anyway.


I got the email about the natura recall..and thought, Huh? Werent they JUST recalled? Maybe its a late email.... oh boy.

No, not a late e-mail, they just apparently suck. Looks like the P&G might be right after all. I'll go visit the vet site to see if Natura reps are trying to spin as best they can.

I'm kinda sad now

waah
Jun 20, 2011

I AM THE WORST FANTASY FOOTBALL PLAYER IN TFFNFCS.





Well explains why I still can't find any EVO on the shelves. I found it in one store about 2 weeks ago with a pretty good markdown and I resisted buying multiple bags. Glad I did, ugh. Looks like I am gonna have to switch brands permanently.

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."



Really bummed about Natura- it was working well for Bailey. Guess its back to blue buffalo and massive dumps.

Menstrual Show
Jun 3, 2004



Biscuit Hider

mesc posted:

So, in my ark we currently have 3 male cats, aged 11, 11 and 12. Both of the 11 year old cats are DSH tabbies that have had previous urinary blockage issues. One of them, Apollo, had a blockage issue so severe that he had to spend the weekend with a catheter at the hospital. He's also terrified of everything, and the other cats (and dog) bully him constantly. We have a baby gate set up at the stairs so that the dog can't get near him, so he lives in relative quiet an comfort.

Our big problem right now, however, is that while his vet-recommended specialty food has kept him blockage-free for the past 4.5 years since his incident, he poops water. Everywhere. We've tried probiotics, feliway, we constantly change his litter, etc. Still water pooping, and many times half out of the box.

Our vet recommended that his nerves might be so bad that he needs to be removed from the other animals altogether and just have his own room, but he gets really lonely. So we're looking at changing up his food:

Current: http://www.petfooddirect.com/Produc...Canned-Cat-Food

Proposed: http://www.petfooddirect.com/Produc...Canned-Cat-Food

Any ideas here or other suggestions?

Apollo says thank you:



Might've gotten lost on the last page, but does anyone have advice here?

Masey
Aug 22, 2006
Pancakes.

ugh dumb. I can't read.

Masey fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jun 19, 2013

mune
Sep 23, 2006


Quick question here: I've got a shelter kitten, ~10 weeks old, who's free-feeding on dry Science Diet as well as getting fed wet Science Diet. I would like to change his diet to preferably the Solid Gold Indigo Moon and maybe a better canned food.

I also have another kitten coming in (tomorrow) who's on a completely different diet (Life's Abundance? I don't know, it's what the breeder has him on) and I'm sure he'll be stressed out enough with the move as it is. The problem is, how do I feed kittens who are two different diets? The aim is to get them both on the same food. Should I just feed them wet food at first and then after a few days just move on with the new dry food? Please help!

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


mesc posted:

Might've gotten lost on the last page, but does anyone have advice here?

Unfortunately urinary issues can be difficult to manage depending on the crystal type. The thing to be careful of when looking at urinary foods is that there are two main crystals cats like to form (struvite or calcium oxalate) that can cause problems, but treating for one makes the other one more likely to happen. With normal treatment, that doesn't usually entail actually getting the other kind of crystal, but if you choose a urinary food which is made for, say, calcium oxalate and your kitty is a struvite former, then even though you purchased a urinary crystal prevention diet, the diet is trying to prevent the wrong crystal and thus may make the problem worse.

Bottom line, I would recommend asking your vet for next diets to try to make sure you're not going to run into crystal problems. As far as what you're using now, RC SO works on both types of crystals by making a middle ground pH (among other things) whereas Iams S is going for a low pH to prevent struvite crystals, but not calcium oxalate (because calcium oxalate like to form in acid urine).

mune posted:

Quick question here: I've got a shelter kitten, ~10 weeks old, who's free-feeding on dry Science Diet as well as getting fed wet Science Diet. I would like to change his diet to preferably the Solid Gold Indigo Moon and maybe a better canned food.

I also have another kitten coming in (tomorrow) who's on a completely different diet (Life's Abundance? I don't know, it's what the breeder has him on) and I'm sure he'll be stressed out enough with the move as it is. The problem is, how do I feed kittens who are two different diets? The aim is to get them both on the same food. Should I just feed them wet food at first and then after a few days just move on with the new dry food? Please help!

The best bet would try to feed them as separately as possible. Kittens will be tough because of how often they eat. You could try faster transitions, but understanding that you may run into kitten diarrhea. If you have the time, you could try meal feeding 4x a day while they're on separate diets to try and keep them separate, but when transitioned (and if you really want to free feed) then just jump into free feeding.

grapey
Oct 10, 2012


mesc posted:

Might've gotten lost on the last page, but does anyone have advice here?

Well, I'm not an expert by any means, but the new food looks much better than the Royal Canin--the fourth or fifth ingredient was corn flour. I would run it by the vet tho.

edit: Uh, you should definitely listen to HelloSailorSign--sounds like he/she knows just a tad bit more than me

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


grapey posted:

Well, I'm not an expert by any means, but the new food looks much better than the Royal Canin--the fourth or fifth ingredient was corn flour. I would run it by the vet tho.

edit: Uh, you should definitely listen to HelloSailorSign--sounds like he/she knows just a tad bit more than me

That's the hard part with urinary foods. Going by ingredients alone can be a recipe for disaster, as percentages of mineral contents, amino acid profiles, other nutrient compounds, and overall diet effect on pH is all extremely important, but even looking at the listed percents won't give the full answer (let alone just judging on ingredients lists). The good urinary diets will have gone through clinical research to find out what exactly they do to urine compositions and pH - the right effects sometimes need crummy ingredients listings, but they work.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Demon_Corsair posted:

Hilariously, their stuff is also kosher as well as organic.

Wait, what? I suppose it's possible to make kosher dog food, but I have no idea why someone would go to the expense of doing that, since dogs aren't subject to Jewish dietary law.

Malalol
Apr 4, 2007

I spent $1,000 on my computer but I'm too "poor" to take my dog or any of my animals to the vet for vet care. My neglect caused 1 of my birds to die prematurely! My dog pisses everywhere! I don't care! I'm a piece of shit! Don't believe me? Check my post history in Pet Island!


I get a lot of people asking for it on holiday because otherwise they can't touch it.

same with cat, fish, etc

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


Konstantin posted:

Wait, what? I suppose it's possible to make kosher dog food, but I have no idea why someone would go to the expense of doing that, since dogs aren't subject to Jewish dietary law.

There is a not insignificant portion of the population that feels that their pet should have the same diet as they do.

In some, that means the overweight dog that I told the client to stop feeding McDonald's cheeseburgers.

In others, it's religious based, either because they themselves don't want to touch the food, or they want their dog to follow those same ideologies.

And finally, some that feel their dog or cat should also be vegan.

Gothmog1065
May 14, 2009


I'm trying to get my cats more of a wet food diet than they have been. I have 4 of them. The boy is having pee problems and the vet is worried about blockage.

Is it okay to alternate dry and wet food? Is there a way to "mix" it?

Right now my cats are on the Blue Buffalo Indoor Health dry food (and have been since Innova went up $10 a bag). Petsmart had a really awesome sale on Innova canned food, so I bought a lot of that. I tried being clever and mixing the food, but the cats refused to eat the dry food bits at all, then it got gross and I had to dump it out. Should I just go with my plan of a can of food every other day or so (It's one of the large cans), and letting them graze on dry food inbetween? Will that cause problems?

grapey
Oct 10, 2012


Do you want to mix because they're grazers? If so, cats can graze on wet--mine do.

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


Gothmog1065 posted:

I'm trying to get my cats more of a wet food diet than they have been. I have 4 of them. The boy is having pee problems and the vet is worried about blockage.

Is it okay to alternate dry and wet food? Is there a way to "mix" it?

Right now my cats are on the Blue Buffalo Indoor Health dry food (and have been since Innova went up $10 a bag). Petsmart had a really awesome sale on Innova canned food, so I bought a lot of that. I tried being clever and mixing the food, but the cats refused to eat the dry food bits at all, then it got gross and I had to dump it out. Should I just go with my plan of a can of food every other day or so (It's one of the large cans), and letting them graze on dry food inbetween? Will that cause problems?

Unlikely to cause problems, as they're both well balanced.

Are you continuing to use the dry for money reasons or...?

Otherwise full wet food is great, it's what I prefer in cats.

four lean hounds
Feb 16, 2012


Thanks for the fresh version of this thread! I'm in the process of switching my cats from Blue Buffalo Longevity to the Wilderness type to bump their dry food quality up, even if it is just a little.

I also altered their feeding so they get less dry food, which forces them to actually eat their wet food. I'd been frustrated for a long time because they'd snub their wet food, and now I find empty plates! Of course they love their dry food more just to spite me, but I figure that's just because they are cats.

obnoxious
Aug 11, 2005

booty butt
booty butt
cheeks

Hi guys.

So I'm in super paranoid are-you-motherfuckers-getting-enough-water-mode with my cats after losing my boy to CRF a few weeks ago (his creatinine level was 17 and only dropped to 11 after 3 days of fluids). After feeding a primarily kibble diet (solid gold indigo moon) supplemented with a can of wet food here and there, I've reversed this and I am now feeding canned food while free-feeding kibble (that they don't touch because they're bitches).

Now, I've been feeding this because it's pretty cheap and they love it, and it has a high moisture content which helps me sleep better at night. I feel like this is a good food, but I just wanted to hear what PI has to say about it, and I was also wondering if anyone else feeds this food?

Gothmog1065
May 14, 2009


HelloSailorSign posted:

Unlikely to cause problems, as they're both well balanced.

Are you continuing to use the dry for money reasons or...?

Otherwise full wet food is great, it's what I prefer in cats.

Right now it's money reasons as I try to transition into full wet food. I know it's better but goddamn it's expensive for 4 cats. What I was looking at was using the dry food as filler for the wet food so it would last longer, but last time I actually mixed it they refused to eat the normally dry bits.

Right now they seem content with alternating.

e: Really stupid secondary question. Does it matter if their foodbowl is metal or plastic? I got a good heavy metal one because it fits their 4 fat little heads at the same time.

Gothmog1065 fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jun 21, 2013

Buff Skeleton
Oct 24, 2005



Metal is better (i.e. stainless steel) since plastic can apparently cause acne for some cats.

Martello
Apr 29, 2012

by XyloJW


HelloSailorSign posted:

And finally, some that feel their dog or cat should also be vegan.



oddeye
Jul 24, 2005



We have the vegan customers who think their pets should be vegan as well. Annoys me to no end. Especially when I explain various reasons why that is a bad idea, or give them options that have meat ingredients that come from free range farms, or fresh caught fish.

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011



A least dogs can live (reasonably well) on vegan diets. Those diets are more difficult to make, but still possible. Vegetarian diets for dogs are easier to comeby.

Cats, though, for most vegan diets, will get sick and die, usually of heart disease.

hhgtrillian
Jan 23, 2004

DOGS IN SPACE

obnoxious posted:

Hi guys.

So I'm in super paranoid are-you-motherfuckers-getting-enough-water-mode with my cats after losing my boy to CRF a few weeks ago (his creatinine level was 17 and only dropped to 11 after 3 days of fluids). After feeding a primarily kibble diet (solid gold indigo moon) supplemented with a can of wet food here and there, I've reversed this and I am now feeding canned food while free-feeding kibble (that they don't touch because they're bitches).

Now, I've been feeding this because it's pretty cheap and they love it, and it has a high moisture content which helps me sleep better at night. I feel like this is a good food, but I just wanted to hear what PI has to say about it, and I was also wondering if anyone else feeds this food?

I've been feeding some of my cats Soulistic for some time and have been happy with it. It's from the same makers of the more expensive brand Weruva and they make BFF too. I have 6 cats and three of them get this, two get EVO 95% Turkey and Chicken, and one gets Fancy Feast because he's picky and won't eat any other canned food...he really only even licks the juice of the FF. I also like to add a little bit of additional water to their canned food too, because hey, more water.

Malalol
Apr 4, 2007

I spent $1,000 on my computer but I'm too "poor" to take my dog or any of my animals to the vet for vet care. My neglect caused 1 of my birds to die prematurely! My dog pisses everywhere! I don't care! I'm a piece of shit! Don't believe me? Check my post history in Pet Island!


HelloSailorSign posted:

A least dogs can live (reasonably well) on vegan diets. Those diets are more difficult to make, but still possible. Vegetarian diets for dogs are easier to comeby.

Cats, though, for most vegan diets, will get sick and die, usually of heart disease.

Why not?
I know theyre obligate carnivores but with making a diet, can't you make something that makes up a cats needs? Combining whatever plants to make up the needed proteins, and dietary needs plus taurine added in. What is it exactly that makes it not work?

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


Malalol posted:

Why not?
I know theyre obligate carnivores but with making a diet, can't you make something that makes up a cats needs? Combining whatever plants to make up the needed proteins, and dietary needs plus taurine added in. What is it exactly that makes it not work?

Until very recently, taurine wasn't from vegan sources in pet food afaik - now there are more chemically synthesized stuff. There was big drama over some vegan cat food (Ami cat I think?) that ended up giving lots of cats DCM here in the states tue to taurine deficiency but afaik they were claiming they didn't have taurine issues in their diet. Since then, I think they now definitely supplement.

Dr. Chaco
Mar 30, 2005


You can make a cat-appropriate diet vegetarian, but you have to get all the amino acids in synthetic form, which is very expensive and not very appealing to the cat. It has been done for very specific research projects. There is at least one essential compound (arachidonic acid) which I believe is not available in a truly vegan form--it is derived from animals, and cats don't make their own (as carnivores, they shouldn't have to). Other compounds may be available synthetically, but are much more likely to be derived from animals in a commercial diet, or just not present in sufficient amounts. So, a truly vegan diet for cats won't work, and a vegetarian one will be expensive (if it is nutritionally adequate) and taste bad.

Malalol
Apr 4, 2007

I spent $1,000 on my computer but I'm too "poor" to take my dog or any of my animals to the vet for vet care. My neglect caused 1 of my birds to die prematurely! My dog pisses everywhere! I don't care! I'm a piece of shit! Don't believe me? Check my post history in Pet Island!


That makes sense..Ive actually never heard of someone wanting a vegan diet so I'm not too well versed on that... for vegetarian, I figured Ok, you get these plant things with x amino acids and then this plant thing with the rest and viola, complete protein diet. Obv. its not as simple as that though.

Related to taste.. do the crappier brands put in artificial stuff to make it taste better? Just from experience, I see more dogs eating the hell outta stuff like caesers food and won't touch some of the better "natural" stuff. Or maybe its just more sugar/salt? But I don't really hear dogs who will only eat high quality stuff and wont touch pedigree. In that case, it may be that the owner wouldn't switch to a lower grade food but its caesers food every drat time.

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011


There are flavorings and palatibility enhancers that are put on food. If there's any sort of "digest" in the ingredients list, at least part of that is spray on flavors.

Dr. Chaco
Mar 30, 2005


Malalol posted:

That makes sense..Ive actually never heard of someone wanting a vegan diet so I'm not too well versed on that... for vegetarian, I figured Ok, you get these plant things with x amino acids and then this plant thing with the rest and viola, complete protein diet. Obv. its not as simple as that though.

Yeah, most people don't realize how many other nutrients there are to consider besides protein, even if they understand that not all proteins are created equal because of amino acid composition. There are also essential fatty acids, vitamins and minerals, and the food has to taste like meat (at least for cats, dogs are retarded and will sometimes eat anything).

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams


So I've got two cats, and they're both fat. I feed them Solid Gold Indigo Moon. We feed them twice a day in a single bowl that they share. In total both cats get 2/3 of a cup a day. Which, according to the instructions on the label, isn't even enough for 1 cat. I'd give them less food, but they're both assholes and become whiny jerks rattling the closet door whenever they want food.

So is there a food that's good for the cats but isn't so calorie dense? I'd like to give them a higher volume of food but decrease their calorie intake.

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LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.



FISHMANPET posted:

So I've got two cats, and they're both fat. I feed them Solid Gold Indigo Moon. We feed them twice a day in a single bowl that they share. In total both cats get 2/3 of a cup a day. Which, according to the instructions on the label, isn't even enough for 1 cat. I'd give them less food, but they're both assholes and become whiny jerks rattling the closet door whenever they want food.

So is there a food that's good for the cats but isn't so calorie dense? I'd like to give them a higher volume of food but decrease their calorie intake.
You might try a wet food diet. It definitely helped with my cats, who were very vocal beggars on dry food. You could also try attaching some Sticky Paws or contact paper (sticky-side-out) to the bottom of the closet door as a surprise the next time they paw at it.

If you want them to lose weight reliably, it would be helpful to have them eating from separate dishes, since they may have very different caloric requirements. For example, my heaviest fat cat is just over 17 pounds, and he gets 218 calories per day. My other fat cat is 13.5 pounds, and she gets around 100 calories per day. That's a huge difference in calories for not a huge difference in weight. It varies a lot for each individual.

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