Pet Nutrition Thread: I see no problem with my cat's vegan diet.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Pet Island > Pet Nutrition Thread: I see no problem with my cat's vegan diet.

Kiri koli: Jun 20, 2005; Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Is anyone familiar with the different protein contents of dog foods?

I just came across a study by Dr. Dodman (a vet behaviorist) at Tufts which suggested that a high protein diet (30+%) can exacerbate certain types of aggression in dogs because it makes tryptophan (a seratonin precursor) harder to utilize and that a low protein diet (17%) and/or a tryptophan supplement may be appropriate in some cases. Only one study is available as far as I can tell (and it has issues like smallish sample sizes), but it seems like something I should just go ahead and rule out.

I am waiting for my vet to call me back about whether there would be health issues with a low protein diet/tryptophan trial run with Psyche, but in the meantime, I am wondering if anyone here is careful about how rich in protein their dog's diet is. A low protein diet for a dog seems counter-intuitive to me in the first place (what do you replace it with, carbs? which carbs are good for dogs in larger amounts?) unless the dog has kidney problems. Also how can you tell how protein-rich a commercial dog food is? They only have to list a minimum correct?

We currently feed Blue Buffalo, which is listed as high protein on their website, though I can't find an actual percentage. I also use chicken as a training food a lot. Are there options out there for say a more medium protein based diet? Is it possible to feed a lower protein diet without increasing grains and other things that are probably not all that healthy for the dog either?

Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jun 7, 2013

# ¿ Jun 7, 2013 15:14

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Kiri koli: Jun 20, 2005; Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Crooked Booty posted:

I haven't read that study, don't know much about this, and only have a minute, but a few things:

17% protein is very, very low. It's in fact lower than what AAFCO requires of dog food, so you're not going to find an over-the-counter diet with protein that low. The only way to get protein that low is to dilute it with fat or carbohydrates, and high-fat diets give dogs horrible diarrhea at best, so that only leaves carbs. If you go looking for dog foods with more like 18-20% protein, you're unfortunately going to find that there aren't many options other than a few pretty yucky, grocery store-quality foods that are 90% corn or whatever. The lowest protein OTC diets with good ingredients will probably be those labeled for "seniors" but they'll still probably be around 25% protein.

The protein "minimum" listed on Blue Buffalo is probably pretty accurate. Protein is the most expensive part of the diet, so it would be very unusual for a pet food to have significantly more protein than what's listed on the bag.

Royal Canin has a prescription diet called Calm which I believe came out in the US about a year ago. I don't know much about it other than that it's relatively low in protein, has lots of added tryptophan, and has some other added peptides and amino acids that are thought to be calming (alpha cazosepine and something else too IIRC). I think it's a lot of the stuff found in various "calming" chews and treats. The ingredient list probably isn't pretty, but it might be worth a try. I haven't heard much in the way of anecdotes, but it seems like worst case scenario is the dog doesn't like it (in which case RC would probably give you a refund) or it does nothing. If your vet doesn't carry it, they should be able to write you a script to get it online or elsewhere.

Edit: Oh hey, when you google Royal Canin Calm a $15 rebate comes up, good through the end of this month.

Thanks, that was really helpful to give me a point of reference. I figured 17% was really low and not really sustainable long term. The study suggests that, for a dog that is sensitive to high protein, results should be obvious in a week or two. So a short trial run may be enough to rule this out. I'll see what my vet says. I think they also carry Royal Canin, so I'll ask about that as well.

Edit: The Blue Buffalo we feed her has a min 34%.

vvvvv Yeah, at a minimum I figure it can't hurt to try her on a 20-25% food for a while. She doesn't seem to have any obvious problems with BB, but we've been feeding it for so long that we may not have a good baseline anymore when it comes to her behavior.

Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jun 7, 2013

# ¿ Jun 7, 2013 16:23

Kiri koli: Jun 20, 2005; Also, I can kill you with my brain.

ButWhatIf posted:

This. I have read the study, and the conclusion that is made by it is absolutely not supported by the data. There are a lot of "may" and "can" in the conclusion and abstract, and there is just no evidence that supports what they took away from it.

To be honest, I think the behavior world doesn't really have too much of an opinion of Dodman's work. He's primarily a vet, not a behaviorist, and the many of the conclusions he makes are just not supported by modern ethology.

Well that sucks considering he's listed as a vet behaviorist at tufts and that's the closest one to us. We are reconsidering seeing a vet behaviorist since she now has confirmed medical issues that may be related to her behavior.

Edit: actually he's the head of the tufts animal behavior department and seems to have a long history of working on animal behavior. I don't think he's mostly a vet but maybe he's not highly regarded as a behaviorist?

Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 7, 2013

# ¿ Jun 7, 2013 18:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Pet Island > Pet Nutrition Thread: I see no problem with my cat's vegan diet.