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OneEightHundred posted:If they do, then it'll take a lot more than one poorly-selling system. Sega only did it after the Sega CD sold poorly, the 32X bombed hilariously, the Saturn bombed only somewhat less hilariously, the Nomad failed, and the Dreamcast had pretty flaccid sales. Nintendo by comparison is still huge in the handheld space and probably has enough cash in the bank that they could bury every unsold Wii U next to an ET cartridge and still stay in the hardware market. Exactly this. This can't be Nintendo's Dreamcast. The Dreamcast followed up a long string of financial failures and Sega was already in dire straits when the thing launched. The Dreamcast wasn't even a super massive failure, it probably did better than the Saturn. Sega was in just such a bad position that they couldn't take another blow and had to bow out of the hardware market completely. Nintendo is in a completely different position. They've only had one unprofitable year since the Wii launched and if the Wii U fails to turn things around, they can make another attempt at a home console. Now, granted, I think this will actually happen. I just can't really see the Wii U turning things around. If it's selling this bad now, it's hardly going to be able to compete with the next generation of consoles. The one parallel to the DC I'll draw is the PS2 being its deathknell. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I don't see the Wii U selling any better in its second year. If this happens, I expect Nintendo to actually cut it off early and develop another console. Fulchrum posted:Yeah, thats why its such a bad decision to pull out of E3. Nintendo needed a platform where actual major news sources were watching, so they could speak to the masses and tell them exactly what they wanted them to hear. Instead, they've decided to eschew major news source coverage in exchange for preaching to the choir. They're still going to E3. They won't have a major press conference, but they're going to be there, showing new games to the press. The games press still reports on every Nintendo Direct so saying that those only the diehard fans is wrong, and the mainstream press will be able to play the next Mario at E3.
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May 17, 2013 00:18
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Every new console has an attach rate lower than the consoles that have been out for several years. The attach rate is so low it's being outsold by the "abject failure" Vita. stuff like this: quote:Just Cause 2 developer's Wii U dev kits are 'collecting dust' Both of those things are huge, huge problems.
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May 17, 2013 00:20
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Every new console has an attach rate lower than the consoles that have been out for several years. You know there are degrees of "low" right? The Wii U doesn't have the typical low attach rate of new consoles, it's way worse than Nintendo expected. Handwaving the really low sales with "well every console starts slow!" is foolish, because not every console sells two million fewer units than initially projected. The Wii U is in an abnormal position for sure and its very low attach rate is most definitely causing developers to balk.
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May 17, 2013 00:25
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Attach rates absolutely do have an impact on developer support, but Nintendo's really not helping themselves when it comes to third party relations. At E3 2011, former EA CEO John Riccitello got on stage to announce support for the Wii U, resulting in games like Mass Effect 3 and Madden being launch titles. Now, two years later, when EA is making official statements that they don't have any Wii U titles in development, and that their next-gen game engine isn't going to support Wii U, that's a pretty damning sign. Nintendo's developer relations weren't any better during the original Wii years, but the insane sales numbers for that system meant third parties would be silly to not have a presence there. Of course, that dried up a few years later when the only major third party successes on the Wii were games like Just Dance, but that gets back to Nintendo's lovely relations issues.
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May 17, 2013 00:25
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Fulchrum posted:Yeah, thats why its such a bad decision to pull out of E3. Nintendo needed a platform where actual major news sources were watching, so they could speak to the masses and tell them exactly what they wanted them to hear. Instead, they've decided to eschew major news source coverage in exchange for preaching to the choir. They aren't pulling out of E3 though. They're just not doing the big stage conference that we've come to expect out of The Big Three. They're still going to be at E3. However, that relaxed approach to the biggest show in the gaming west doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Scaling down their marketing to focus on fans primarily doesn't make them look strong, it makes them look desperate (which they have NO REASON TO). Things look bad for the Wii U now, but the only reason they keep looking WORSE is because Nintendo is all but purposefully trying to avoid addressing the reasons why this is even happening to begin with. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:They're still going to E3. They won't have a major press conference, but they're going to be there, showing new games to the press. The games press still reports on every Nintendo Direct so saying that those only the diehard fans is wrong, and the mainstream press will be able to play the next Mario at E3. The Nintendo Directs by themselves are a very poor replacement for actual marketing. Even counting attention from the mainstream gaming press, Nintendo is struggling to get the word out about how this new console exists and potentially might be very exciting to own. If the Directs were as important and influential to their bottom line as everyone wants to pretend they are, then we wouldn't be having people post in this thread about how they didn't know the system wasn't actually an add-on to the original Wii.
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May 17, 2013 00:26
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WendigoJohnson posted:But Nintendo did at least publish a few things way long ago on other platforms: Interplay I couldn't say. But for Phillips, you could say it was a.... leftover. Phillips was the company that Hiroshi Yamauchi went to after they already had a standing deal with Sony to develop a CD addon for the SNES back then.
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May 17, 2013 00:28
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fivegears4reverse posted:The Nintendo Directs by themselves are a very poor replacement for actual marketing. Even counting attention from the mainstream gaming press, Nintendo is struggling to get the word out about how this new console exists and potentially might be very exciting to own. If the Directs were as important and influential to their bottom line as everyone wants to pretend they are, then we wouldn't be having people post in this thread about how they didn't know the system wasn't actually an add-on to the original Wii. No one can deny that Nintendo's marketing has been poor and they've done a really bad job at explaining what the Wii U is. I don't think Nintendo Direct is responsible for that, and I don't think another E3 press conference would have solved that issue unless they changed their rhetoric and how they present the system. After all, they went through two E3s leaving everyone befuddled. It's the content of the message that is at fault, not how it's delivered.
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May 17, 2013 00:30
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Fulchrum posted:Yeah, thats why its such a bad decision to pull out of E3. Nintendo needed a platform where actual major news sources were watching, so they could speak to the masses and tell them exactly what they wanted them to hear. Instead, they've decided to eschew major news source coverage in exchange for preaching to the choir. Considering that major news sources like CNN were initially reporting that the Wii U was an add-on for the Wii, I could see them wanting to circumvent those sources. I know that Nintendo themselves didn't communicate the nature of the Wii U very well, but the fewer steps the message has to take when going from Nintendo to the consumer, the better.
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May 17, 2013 00:50
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:No one can deny that Nintendo's marketing has been poor and they've done a really bad job at explaining what the Wii U is. I don't think Nintendo Direct is responsible for that, and I don't think another E3 press conference would have solved that issue unless they changed their rhetoric and how they present the system. After all, they went through the last E3 leaving everyone befuddled. It's the content of the message that is at fault, not how it's delivered. I definitely agree that they have a serious problem with messaging, but I can't see the Directs as the answer they're looking for. I think it's a combination of both things: their marketing is bad, worse than the PSP Squirrels bad (which had the, uh, benefit of being...amusing I guess?), and the Directs don't actually fix that. The Directs get Nintendo fans excited. The Directs being reported on by the press still only gets Nintendo fans excited. They still are failing to convince consumers and developers that the system has enough merit to justify buying it or developing for it. E3 is an excellent opportunity to present stuff in general. For all the stupid poo poo that goes on at E3, you can't deny that it holds a very important place in gaming as a whole. It's the big show. It's where "stuff" gets revealed. Its where we get Ravi Drums and the really bad Kinect Star Wars presentation and Giant Enemy Crabs. It's also where people are literally crying in their seats and at home in front of their monitors when Miyamoto walks out and talks about the new Zelda, where people cheer at the new Metal Gear trailer, or gush about the new visual targets for upcoming racing games. I get why they're doing this, which boils back to one of the core issues the Wii U suffers: both it and Nintendo were not ready to release in 2012. They don't have the dev muscle for it, evidenced by games being pushed back well outside of launch window, hasty announcements for a new Mario Kart and 3D Mario. They don't have third-party support to show off to people. I get why they don't want to confront the competition on open ground if they don't feel confident about what they have. At the same time, I don't think they were entirely ignorant to the problems that were around the corner. I just think that in typical Nintendo fashion, they believed these issues weren't anything to be concerned with. Welp.
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May 17, 2013 00:51
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Junkie Disease posted:It hasn't been a year yet so ill enjoy this time next year asking the same question of ps4 and Xbox Doritos. Those two have a real issue with the rising cost of game development for their third party developers. Frankly if the next generation of AAA smells more like Assassins Creed 3 and less of Mario Galaxy I'm out. People said this in 2006. HD was supposed to kill the industry.
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May 17, 2013 00:52
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Who Gotch Ya fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 00:54
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I don't have a Wii U because it doesn't support dual output so I can't hook it up to my monitor and my speakers :/
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May 17, 2013 00:56
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WendigoJohnson posted:But Nintendo did at least publish a few things way long ago on other platforms: C'mooooon, you guys know what's meant: Nintendo will never publish their streamlined, Nintendo-only console games on competitor's machines, they'd rather go down in flames. Even bringing it up now, especially this generation, is dumb to talk about.
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May 17, 2013 00:56
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Louisgod posted:Good discussion so far but before it gets there (and it will), let's avoid saying Nintendo should go third party or start making games for other platforms, because they never will. A change of leadership is all it would take.
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May 17, 2013 00:57
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The controller looks like a gimmick and it has no good games. This is essentially what I said about the Wii except my friends convinced me that Wii sports and stuff would be sweet as hell. As of right now, you've got that mindset plus the fact that the PS4 and Xbox 1024*768 are right around the corner promising better graphics and all the AAA titles. Why the gently caress would I buy a Wii U?
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May 17, 2013 01:00
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If anything I feel like the Wii U may end up being another Gamecube. Always last place, decent library, a handful of classics. Keep in mind, we don't know anything about the next X-Box OR what the PS4 is going to cost, both of which could go a long way to help the Wii U gain traction it doesn't have right now. It's hard to say it's The Worst, or going to be dead last, or the last Nintendo system ever when we do not know full details on either of it's major competitors.
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May 17, 2013 01:01
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abigserve posted:The controller looks like a gimmick and it has no good games. This is essentially what I said about the Wii except my friends convinced me that Wii sports and stuff would be sweet as hell. To play Nintendo games. The same reason as it always has been.
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May 17, 2013 01:02
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Make it $99 and port over every NES/SNES/N64/Gamecube Zelda/Mario/AAA title and I'll give Nintendo a fuckload of money. Until then I'll stick to my 360 and in November my 720.punchdaily posted:If anything I feel like the Wii U may end up being another Gamecube. Always last place, decent library, a handful of classics. Keep in mind, we don't know anything about the next X-Box OR what the PS4 is going to cost, both of which could go a long way to help the Wii U gain traction it doesn't have right now. It's hard to say it's The Worst, or going to be dead last, or the last Nintendo system ever when we do not know full details on either of it's major competitors. Microsoft has no problem losing money on a console. If the Wii U is doing poorly when the 720 comes out, you can bet your rear end they will beat it's price just to kill this generation of Nintendo console.
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May 17, 2013 01:03
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8-bit Miniboss posted:To play Nintendo games. The same reason as it always has been. That reason only applied when Nintendo made the best games. They don't anymore.
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May 17, 2013 01:03
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TaurusOxford posted:That reason only applied when Nintendo made the best games. They don't anymore. Stating opinions like a fact is a sure-fire way to get everyone under your banner. First party/exclusive games on other systems have certainly improved immensely over the years, but many still think that Nintendo is where you go for top-of-the-line first-party.
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May 17, 2013 01:09
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Maybe Nintendo games just aren't enough anymore.
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May 17, 2013 01:10
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I think it's important to distinguish the issues with messaging: sure, there's parts of the market that know exactly what the console is and aren't interested (or aren't yet interested), but there are also massive segments of the market that straight-up know zero about it. I think the latter issue poses an even larger threat to the console than the tumbleweedy library. You can't even begin making an attractive value proposition to the consumer if they literally don't know your product exists. I keep seeing comments to the effect that the Wii's non-gamer userbase is declining to buy for [REASON X], but the reality is that they're not even getting that far. These aren't people saying "oh, I see, no thanks" in droves, these are people saying "what's a Wii U?" Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 01:14 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 01:10
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And these are people who don't watch Nintendo Directs, and they don't go to IGN or Gamespot either, because who the gently caress goes to IGN or Gamespot anymore other than complete sychophants who live in comments sections and believe that 'console wars' are a real battle to be won. And they don't read magazines because who reads print anything now. The most they might hear about video games is from their friends, family, and maybe the cashier at the Gamestop, where the Wii U section is pushed all the way back towards the back door next to used PS2 discs at 75% off and lovely used third-party peripherals for the Game.com or whatever.
The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 01:14 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 01:12
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Quest For Glory II posted:And these are people who don't watch Nintendo Directs, and they don't go to IGN or Gamespot either, because who the gently caress goes to IGN or Gamespot anymore other than complete sychophants who live in comments sections and believe that 'console wars' are a real battle to be won. And they don't read magazines because who reads print anything now. The most they might hear about video games is from their friends, family, and maybe the cashier at the Gamestop. I go for the latest gaming news when I don't have time to read through here. poo poo, look at the WiiU thread, I saw like a hundred posts pop up overnight and I thought some big news was unveiled. Nope some poo poo about LPs.
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May 17, 2013 01:15
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Bobnumerotres posted:I go for the latest gaming news when I don't have time to read through here. poo poo, look at the WiiU thread, I saw like a hundred posts pop up overnight and I thought some big news was unveiled. Nope some poo poo about LPs. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 01:21 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 01:18
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abigserve posted:The controller looks like a gimmick and it has no good games. This is essentially what I said about the Wii except my friends convinced me that Wii sports and stuff would be sweet as hell. I'm going to need one eventually because of Bayonetta and whatever crazy 3D Mario thing they come up with, but I agree with your sentiment. Nintendo thought they could release a "last gen" console this time because it worked for the Wii. Trouble is, people bought the Wii despite the awful hardware, because the gimmick (and it was a gimmick) was genuinely novel. Now you have a console that is going to be obsolete tech in roughly 6 months, and a new gimmick that amounts to "iPads sure are swell, aren't they?" Well, yes, they are. And your "blue ocean" has largely moved over to them and other iOS devices, because that market has nothing invested in $50-60 video games, not really. The people who thought the Wii was a $250 fitness/minigame appliance are all cutting fruit and swiping birds now, and the demographic invested in video games are all going to be focused in on Sony/Microsoft's new toy, because Nintendo has made it more than painfully clear they do not care about that demographic. It would also be great if every time Iwata spoke about the Wii U's problems, he didn't talk about video games as if he were about to perform a medical procedure. For a company supposedly focused on "fun," Nintendo PR has a way of making video games seem clinical and sterile. Wii U's marketing campaign should be Iwata sitting in his office and answering fanmail -- "Dear Iwata, why should I buy a Wii U? Thanks." And the reply could be something along the lines of "You should buy a Wii U entertainment device because of the opportunities it will give us at Nintendo to monetize on your investment in our content delivery platform and thus ensure a healthy profit for our shareholders in the coming fiscal year." Don't even let Iwata in on the joke - just film him talking about profit margins and markets and consumers, then pretend it's some ironic take on the Kevin Butler stuff.
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May 17, 2013 01:21
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Quest For Glory II posted:Yeah but what about people who buy video games but don't post on an internet forum? You have to be able to get news out to people who don't run in these very insular circles. Should they be announcing new games with a megaphone in Times Square or something? I get that they need to step up their marketing but there's little wrong with using Nintendo Directs to tell people about games that they're making.
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May 17, 2013 01:22
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Toady posted:People said this in 2006. HD was supposed to kill the industry. I dunno if you haven't noticed but since the huge increase in costs associated with visual assets needed for HD games and the newest graphics engines we've lost more developers than ever before this generation cycle and even powerhouses like EA are having some serious financial issues. I'm not saying everyone needs to go back to PS1 levels of graphics but the industry's stance when it comes to visual assets and rendering engines have gotten pretty out of hand and if it continues on the same course it did this generation it's not really sustainable. Game consoles have reached a saturation level like never before yet droves of companies can't turn a profit even though they have more of an audience then ever. That's a rather large issue
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May 17, 2013 01:22
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AlmightyBob posted:Maybe Nintendo games just aren't enough anymore. That doesn't seem to stop Call of Duty, Battlefield and other annualized titles. They're even doing it at a faster clip than Nintendo does for their titles yet people are still clamoring for more.
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May 17, 2013 01:22
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8-bit Miniboss posted:That doesn't seem to stop Call of Duty, Battlefield and other annualized titles. They're even doing it at a faster clip than Nintendo does for their titles yet people are still clamoring for more. That's kind of my point...
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May 17, 2013 01:24
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Bland posted:Should they be announcing new games with a megaphone in Times Square or something? I get that they need to step up their marketing but there's little wrong with using Nintendo Directs to tell people about games that they're making. You cannot expect people to come to you, you have to go to them. Nintendo right now is expecting people to come to them, and not putting in the work. One of their big marketing pushes this year was sending a notification to original Wii owners in their message bin. I mean, what? Seriously? Is there a more passive-aggressive way to advertise your system? Why don't you have people poke around the corner in dark alleyways and go "Psst!" while you're at it. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 01:27 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 01:24
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Dr. VooDoo posted:I dunno if you haven't noticed but since the huge increase in costs associated with visual assets needed for HD games and the newest graphics engines we've lost more developers than ever before this generation cycle and even powerhouses like EA are having some serious financial issues. EA isn't having financial issues because of HD. Their stock price tanked in 2008 like everyone else's did, and they haven't recovered due to the anemic economy combined with a series of poor-quality releases.
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May 17, 2013 01:25
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Dr. VooDoo posted:I dunno if you haven't noticed but since the huge increase in costs associated with visual assets needed for HD games and the newest graphics engines we've lost more developers than ever before this generation cycle and even powerhouses like EA are having some serious financial issues. I'm not saying everyone needs to go back to PS1 levels of graphics but the industry's stance when it comes to visual assets and rendering engines have gotten pretty out of hand and if it continues on the same course it did this generation it's not really sustainable. Game consoles have reached a saturation level like never before yet droves of companies can't turn a profit even though they have more of an audience then ever. That's a rather large issue A lot of this has to do with expectations. A game can be profitable and still be considered a failure because it didn't line up with the wet dreams of bean counters who think every game with a gun in it can reach CoD numbers. Resident Evil 6, a truly awful game, sold just under 5 million copies. That's 300 million dollars before PC versions, digital sales, the inevitable gold editions and any DLC. Similarly, Tomb Raider sold ~3.5 million and turned a dead franchise that had become a punchline for video games as a whole into a pretty serious contender for GOTY Somehow, these are "failures." I get you can't sell a million copies anymore and be a blockbuster, but these are healthy numbers. The problem is with executives who have no realistic expectations for their products.
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May 17, 2013 01:29
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:They're still going to E3. They won't have a major press conference, but they're going to be there, showing new games to the press. The games press still reports on every Nintendo Direct so saying that those only the diehard fans is wrong, and the mainstream press will be able to play the next Mario at E3. The people Nintendo want to speak to don't read Kotaku, they read Cnn.com. And CNN don't give two flying shits about Nintendo Direct. They care about E3. They actually pay attention to E3. E3 is the one opportunity Nintendo have to use CNN to speak to these people. And they're giving it up. And don't bring up floor presence, floor presence doesn't allow you to impart a very clear message that you want people to take away. Above all, thats what Nintendo need to do. C-Euro posted:Considering that major news sources like CNN were initially reporting that the Wii U was an add-on for the Wii, I could see them wanting to circumvent those sources. I know that Nintendo themselves didn't communicate the nature of the Wii U very well, but the fewer steps the message has to take when going from Nintendo to the consumer, the better. I repeat, Nintendo Directs are preaching to the choir.
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May 17, 2013 01:30
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Toady posted:A change of leadership is all it would take. I'm baffled they gave Iwata more power since he bungled 3 releases so far.
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May 17, 2013 01:48
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Space Racist posted:Pithy "rules" like this drive me crazy as there's no real basis in reality. Unless you count the Neo Geo, which at its price was arguably never going for giant mainstream success, then the SNES was the most powerful of its generation and also the top seller. That loving Sned posted:If Sony could turn round the PS3 from a distant last place to a successful console with developers eager to make games for its successor, then there's no reason why Nintendo can't do the same. If they didn't just focus on what their Japanese audience wanted all the time, then they wouldn't be in this situation. Nothing the Wii U is currently suffering from is really a storm to be weathered the way that was. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 01:56 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 01:52
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Fulchrum posted:Yes, and with the Nintendo Directs, the message doesn't even reach the consumer. Absolutely no chance of misinterpretation. Nintendo is still going to have an E3 presence, they're just opting to do a Nintendo Direct in place of a big presentation at the site. I have to imagine journalists at E3 will still seek that presence out, if only because the name Nintendo has been tied to video games for so long. Toady posted:EA isn't having financial issues because of HD. Their stock price tanked in 2008 like everyone else's did, and they haven't recovered due to the anemic economy combined with a series of poor-quality releases. What about the mid-level publishers like THQ and Square-Enix & Eidos? People are beginning to talk about the budgets of video games as being on the same scale as Hollywood blockbusters, and while a company of EA's size will be fine it's the group between the mega-publishers and indie teams that will be ruined by increasing development costs. What value that those companies have, however, is up to you. Plus, do you think having to sink so much money into making games might be slowing down the recovery of someone like EA? Needing to sink more money into each year's iteration of Battlefield to make it appealing to consumers, and needing more people to purchase it in order to turn the same profits on each iteration?
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May 17, 2013 01:55
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Smaller developers license and use middleware so they don't have to spend tens to hundreds of millions creating their own engines. This is why Frostbite/UE4/Crytek not being on the WiiU is such a big deal.
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May 17, 2013 01:58
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:This is why Frostbite/UE4/Crytek not being on the WiiU is such a big deal. They're plenty doable on the console. There's just no reason to invest into the WiiU at the moment. Its sales are abysmal.
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May 17, 2013 01:59
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C-Euro posted:What about the mid-level publishers like THQ and Square-Enix & Eidos? Both were run by morons. The Udraw almost single-handedly sunk THQ, and Square Enix is still trying to recover from the FFXIV debacle. Mid-level publishers can still exist if they don't budget their games like blockbusters and aren't expecting them to sell like blockbusters.
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May 17, 2013 01:59
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