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Bobnumerotres posted:They're plenty doable on the console. There's just no reason to invest into the WiiU at the moment. Its sales are abysmal. UE3 barely runs acceptably on the WiiU. UE4 won't run on it, Crytek "will" run on it (poorly) but they're not bothering, and Frostbite would run like garbage on it so they're not bothering. The WiiU is at a point where they are expecting people to build their own engines specifically for a single underperforming platform who's predecessors haven't really sold 3rd party software well.
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May 17, 2013 02:04
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C-Euro posted:What about the mid-level publishers like THQ and Square-Enix & Eidos? Square Enix's problem isn't HD, its that they're Japanese. As much as Japanophiles like to plug their ears, the Japanese marketshare has been on a downward slope for years - SE is just one of the biggest, and thus takes the most hits. There was nothing wrong with Tomb Raider and Sleeping Dog's performance in a vacuum, its just that they were intended to do so well to cover the failures of Square Enix's Japanese games. They couldn't.
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May 17, 2013 02:07
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Quest For Glory II posted:Yeah but what about people who buy video games but don't post on an internet forum? You have to be able to get news out to people who don't run in these very insular circles. And even inside those circles, there's sub-circles. Like, people who don't own a Wii U don't read the Wii U thread. There's a poster on the first page of this thread that said "Wait a minute, it's out already?" They don't know because they wouldn't ever check. You have to put it in front of them and force them to see it. Wait a minute so Nintendo Direct doesn't get watched by the average gamer so they are useless but what, E3 is watched by the average gamer? And don't say that because it's on Spike loving TV that makes a difference. Spike TV is still going to discuss whatever Nintendo reveals in their Directs and private conferences during E3. Games on the floor will still be discussed.
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May 17, 2013 02:07
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:E3 is watched by the average gamer? E3 gets a 2-3 minute rundown on the national news even here in New Zealand. It's kind of a big deal.
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May 17, 2013 02:10
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C-Euro posted:What about the mid-level publishers like THQ and Square-Enix & Eidos? People are beginning to talk about the budgets of video games as being on the same scale as Hollywood blockbusters, and while a company of EA's size will be fine it's the group between the mega-publishers and indie teams that will be ruined by increasing development costs. What value that those companies have, however, is up to you. It's not surprising to me that there will be projects with costs on the level of Hollywood films as games become a primary form of entertainment in the modern era, but there will also be the usual small-scale independent darlings. Companies come and go, and the failures of some don't suggest to me an impending collapse of the entire industry. As for EA, I don't know how much money they're investing in their games, though it doesn't seem like much given their quality lately.
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May 17, 2013 02:13
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Toady posted:As for EA, I don't know how much money they're investing in their games, though it doesn't seem like much given their quality lately. SWTOR cost them aprox. 180-200 million to make, and they spent 250 million or so marketing it. They'd rather up-sell a lovely product than make a good one.
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May 17, 2013 02:16
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:Smaller developers license and use middleware so they don't have to spend tens to hundreds of millions creating their own engines. In the months and weeks before the Wii U actually released, any talk about about how the system's questionable power affecting what third parties would do on the hardware was shouted down and laughed at because clearly the Wii won the last generation and the Wii U was going to repeat that. And now all of these major engines are passing on the Wii U for now and focus is being placed on the upcoming competing systems, and one of the reasons being cited that isn't just the lack of a market to sell to is that the system isn't very powerful compared to the upcoming systems. C-Euro posted:Nintendo is still going to have an E3 presence, they're just opting to do a Nintendo Direct in place of a big presentation at the site. I have to imagine journalists at E3 will still seek that presence out, if only because the name Nintendo has been tied to video games for so long. They are essentially expecting gaming journalists to do the marketing footwork for them (a fair course of action considering their own marketing department doesn't seem to know what the gently caress they are doing). Most people don't pay attention to gaming journalism in general, even among gamers, and the people of that profession are generally considered untrustworthy when it comes to fair and detailed impressions of the things they are being paid to cover. The solution again isn't to wait for people to come to them, it's for Nintendo to get out there and shove the drat thing into people's faces and educate them about the system. quote:What about the mid-level publishers like THQ and Square-Enix & Eidos? People are beginning to talk about the budgets of video games as being on the same scale as Hollywood blockbusters, and while a company of EA's size will be fine it's the group between the mega-publishers and indie teams that will be ruined by increasing development costs. What value that those companies have, however, is up to you. Not every game has to be at those levels of cost, and in most games don't even reach the budgets of Hollywood blockbusters. It's up to developers and publishers alike to work within their means. Just because they can reach for AAA budgets as systems get more powerful does not mean they HAVE to. I don't know why people assume this is the case, but this was the whole arguement against HD gaming in general when people were saying that it was going to be the death of the industry that is still here today. quote:Plus, do you think having to sink so much money into making games might be slowing down the recovery of someone like EA? Needing to sink more money into each year's iteration of Battlefield to make it appealing to consumers, and needing more people to purchase it in order to turn the same profits on each iteration? What is slowing EA's recovery down is the fact that they AREN'T releasing games that enough people are excited about to cover the expenses. If they were releasing games that were good enough to cover those costs, it wouldn't be an issue. If they weren't making very boneheaded errors like SimCity and SWTOR, they might not be in the stink they find themselves in, but here we are. If anything, Battlefield isn't a problem for EA. It's the closest thing to CoD the company has got, and despite the bitching people do around here, BF3 did pretty alright across all platforms it appeared on. There's no way to know if that is sustainable for certain, but for now BF isn't a source of concern for them.
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May 17, 2013 02:20
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Wait a minute so Nintendo Direct doesn't get watched by the average gamer so they are useless but what, E3 is watched by the average gamer? And I'm talking about their marketing in general. They're literally, right at this very second, doing nothing to promote. I don't care if the system has a small library, they should be promoting it and they aren't. fivegears4reverse posted:They are essentially expecting gaming journalists to do the marketing footwork for them (a fair course of action considering their own marketing department doesn't seem to know what the gently caress they are doing). Most people don't pay attention to gaming journalism in general, even among gamers, and the people of that profession are generally considered untrustworthy when it comes to fair and detailed impressions of the things they are being paid to cover. The solution again isn't to wait for people to come to them, it's for Nintendo to get out there and shove the drat thing into people's faces and educate them about the system. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 02:24 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 02:21
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What I don't get is the recent decision to take all the ad revenue from any YouTube videos showing their games. That is a guaranteed way to make sure no one with any actual audience will bother playing your games, because they can't make any money from it. It's hardly as big as deciding not to do a big E3 show, but regardless it's still shooting themselves in the foot marketing-wise for the sake of a minuscule return from that ad revenue which won't exist anymore.
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May 17, 2013 02:27
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:E3 is watched by the average gamer? More people worldwide give more of a poo poo about E3 than they do about Nintendo directs. Not just in terms of gamers watching the event, newspapers and network television news programs often mention the event. At any point in time during the year for gaming news, E3 is generally when there is the fastest and most furious coverage of anything these gaming companies actually are doing. The lead up to E3 itself has seen a bigger build up, with companies now doing their own presentations before E3 proper in order to start molding specific messages before the actual days of the show itself. Like it or not, and whether or not you want to admit this to yourself, but E3 is kinda important. By contrast, the Nintendo Directs are an attempt to undo literally years of terrible messaging from Nintendo's own marketing department. Focused primarily at people who are already drinking the kool-aid and think that it's AMAZING when Miyamoto stumbles out in front of the camera with a fake vacuum cleaner while Iwata stares at the camera with a lifeless expression on his face, proudly(???) sporting his best business suit and a Luigi hat. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 02:34 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 02:27
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fivegears4reverse posted:More people worldwide give more of a poo poo about E3 than they do about Nintendo directs. That's not the point. It's about how people get their news. They will still get their news about Nintendo because "game journalists" will just rip their news from the Nintendo Direct. They are still going to get it. Also, Wii U games will still be on the floor to discuss. All Nintendo is doing is preventing an embarrassing or boring conference. That's it. All news they want to get out will still get out.
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May 17, 2013 02:37
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The Wii U sold between 33,000 and 40,000 units in the US in the month of April, breaking its own record for worst selling month for a home console  I know they're saving releases and advertising budget for the holidays, but I don't see how they can let the thing just languish like this until then.
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May 17, 2013 02:44
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:That's not the point. I think the point they're making is that news sources outside of gaming circles aren't as likely to pick up on these pieces of news as if they had conventional E3 presentations, which is an issue since Nintendo needs that extended audience to even know it exists. Though to be fair, I at least read what was shown on Direct streams afterwards, and I don't even own a Wii U. I'm still waiting on something appealing enough to justify the purchase (which might be Wind Waker HD).
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May 17, 2013 02:47
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Crowbear posted:I know they're saving releases and advertising budget for the holidays Why would they be loving stupid enough to do that? "Ah, yes, let's let our poorly selling home console with no games languish until it's almost time for both Microsoft and Sony to launch their brand new consoles. This is thing that we should do."
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May 17, 2013 02:48
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So much anger for a toy company. Why does no one get, nothing is changing about E3? The only thing that has changed is they have divided and boosted the info between three seperate simultaneous events. In the next-gen attachment rates will matter. Everything cost so much now, nothing is viable unless it's GTA8 sales wise. Exclusives will be crucial, and Nintendo is trying to ease the cost of switching to next-gen. MiiVerse is the key to Nintendo's strategy, it's so genius. It's the biggest ad in game, and it's free and it's the first loving thing you see when you turn on the system. I think Nintendo is trying to leverage their Wii-BC fanbase, with the ability for nextgen with a few more jaggies. Only reason I own a Wii U is I got it as a gift, otherwise I would just have the Xbox/ps3. I don't even really play it anymore, just use it to read, but that's more a me thing, as I don't play any games anymore unless it's local co-op. I can stand to wait, like I waited for a year for Smash to come out on my launch day Gamecube. The person who game me his Wii U, did so after looking at my steam list, went and built a PC instead. I'm going to build a new one as well, and I plan on buying PS4 and Xbox8 just for Titan, if I have to. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 02:52 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 02:50
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:Why would they be loving stupid enough to do that? I dunno, but supposedly Wii Fit U and something else I'm not remembering off the top of my head are done but they're being held until the holidays.
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May 17, 2013 02:50
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So it seems like a lot of this debate boils down to "consoles are dying out". This can't be entirely true, but if this is the key issue, then maybe we should discuss potential solutions? Why are consoles dying out and what can they do to save themselves? Where is the future of gaming going?
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May 17, 2013 02:53
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:Why would they be loving stupid enough to do that? I remember reading something about Nintendo wanting to try a "re-launch" marketing blitz or whatever, damned if I can find the article now though.
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May 17, 2013 02:54
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It's silly to argue about E3 and Nintendo Direct as if they're opposed when in actuality Nintendo can and should be doing both to the extreme. The whole point of the current media climate is that nobody is going to the same sources; you can't reasonably expect everybody to watch the One Channel or One News Program or go to the One Website and hear about the Wii U, because there's ten billion of everything and none of them are used by a majority of the people. They shouldn't be dialing back Nintendo Direct OR E3. And on the subject of the Udraw sinking THQ and FFXIV undoing all the profit S-E should've made off the success of games like Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider... that situation where you need five successes to undo one failure because the profit margins on a success are so marginal is really common in both Hollywood and the games industry and it's indicative of a bigger problem than one or two mismanaged companies.
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May 17, 2013 02:55
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There is an element of spectacle Nintendo loses by not doing a traditional stage presentation with a cheering crowd. It's hard to argue that companies like Apple haven't benefited from it in their media coverage.
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May 17, 2013 03:03
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:Why would they be loving stupid enough to do that? The secret to making a console without games successful is to wait as long as humanly possible to announce those games. That way, people in the intervening 9 months just snap up consoles in a fever of anticipation!
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May 17, 2013 03:05
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miscellaneous14 posted:What I don't get is the recent decision to take all the ad revenue from any YouTube videos showing their games. That is a guaranteed way to make sure no one with any actual audience will bother playing your games, because they can't make any money from it. It's hardly as big as deciding not to do a big E3 show, but regardless it's still shooting themselves in the foot marketing-wise for the sake of a minuscule return from that ad revenue which won't exist anymore. On the one hand, I can see why Nintendo would be entitled to getting a cut. But on the other hand, just because you're entitled to something, doesn't mean it's the smartest decision to take it. If people are playing your game and having fun in a video, other people are going to want to play it to. I can't even begin to count the number of games I've picked up because of Giant Bomb Quick Looks or NerdCubed Let's Plays or (even) TotalBiscuit's quick reviews. They do gaming a drat good service, and as such I feel the very tiny kickback they get from ad revenue from YouTube is a fine payment for this service. Disincentivizing people on YouTube from posting videos of your game is a great way to get everyone to, holy poo poo, stop making videos of people playing your game, effectively killing a completely free, legal, Fair Use approved stream of advertising for the poo poo you're having such a hard time selling. Their decisions just baffle me.
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May 17, 2013 03:15
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People should not be making money for playing video games on the internet, nor expect to.
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May 17, 2013 03:20
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RentCavalier posted:So it seems like a lot of this debate boils down to "consoles are dying out". This can't be entirely true, but if this is the key issue, then maybe we should discuss potential solutions? Why are consoles dying out and what can they do to save themselves? Where is the future of gaming going? Eh, even though I think the PS4 and Durango will have their own launch issues I don't think there's enough evidence right now to suggest that console gaming is dying out. If we have "Is the PS4/Durango Sony's/Microsoft's Dreamcast?" threads this time next year, then maybe it's time to sit down and think this whole thing through. Maybe there are trends suggesting that the industry is in trouble, but until these two are released it's not something that can be said for certain.
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May 17, 2013 03:26
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I find stuff like this thread kinda strange, I have two friends both working to get a wii-u because while the launch sucked rear end Q3/Q4 is sounding really good. We're all psyched for pikmin, wonderful 101, mario, smash bros and other assorted games and things just sound like they're taking awhile to pick up
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May 17, 2013 03:28
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Chic Trombone posted:I remember reading something about Nintendo wanting to try a "re-launch" marketing blitz or whatever, damned if I can find the article now though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GSt9n_UPa8 (I don't think this actually aired on TV) e: They keep making the mistake of having someone say "Look at the new Wii U" and then showing only the tablet, creating the perception that the Wii U is specifically a tablet rather than a game console. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 03:39 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 03:29
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In my opinion, the 3DS at launch was in EXACTLY the same position. Cut to now, and everyone's lauding it because of all the good games coming out for it. I seriously doubt any new hardware release is actually going to go smoothly due to the sheer increase in complexity of games nowadays. 
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May 17, 2013 03:33
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I think Nintendo is safe to take the advertising from Youtube LP's, because even if they're not earning money from it, a lot of LPer's are still gonna play Nintendo games because people love watching Nintendo games. Sure, this'll dissuade them from going out and playing things like the NES or SNES catalogs; but when a new Zelda game comes out, a lot of LPer's are gonna jump on that hype train just to get more subscribers.
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May 17, 2013 03:35
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Quest For Glory II posted:Hopefully its better than this poo poo:
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May 17, 2013 03:36
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Black Baby Goku posted:People should not be making money for playing video games on the internet, nor expect to. It's not just playing the games, it's the commentary, humor, and effort put in. Hell, the best reviews for gaming nowadays are YouTube videos. You need some incentive to bring quality to these things, or else every video would be a lovely camcorder pointed at a monitor. Quality videos bring huge subscriber numbers, which mean more eyes on the actual game. The amount paid out is paltry in comparison to that level of advertising, and what little is paid out is really more to pay for the effort than the actual game playing. You could argue all day long about the merit of these things, but the reality is that these types of videos have directly helped developers, and ANY kind of disincentive to making them just doesn't make sound business sense. The amount paid out is just so incredibly tiny that it just isn't worth it compared to the free advertising.
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May 17, 2013 03:38
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RentCavalier posted:So it seems like a lot of this debate boils down to "consoles are dying out". This can't be entirely true, but if this is the key issue, then maybe we should discuss potential solutions? Why are consoles dying out and what can they do to save themselves? Where is the future of gaming going? They've done pretty much all they could really. Assuming Valve has it's poo poo together and not find some way to mess it up. Once they get their steam box concept up and running, it would just be a matter of time before the big 3 will end up becoming storefronts under one unified open standard. However Sony and Microsoft at the very least, bought themselves considerable amount of time by adopting x86 architecture for their new consoles, reducing developer costs, and Sony in particular by trying to cater to independent developers, which would help them as those indie's become bigger and prefer to develop for their console.
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May 17, 2013 03:39
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Jetamo posted:In my opinion, the 3DS at launch was in EXACTLY the same position. Cut to now, and everyone's lauding it because of all the good games coming out for it. I seriously doubt any new hardware release is actually going to go smoothly due to the sheer increase in complexity of games nowadays. Nintendo could afford to price cut the 3DS, they weren't completely unprepared to make games for the 3DS, the 3DS had no competition other than the stillborn Vita, and the 3DS never sold remotely as badly as the Wii U is right now. Their positions are not exactly the same at all!
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May 17, 2013 03:40
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Quest For Glory II posted:Hopefully its better than this poo poo: Not only is that a kinda terrible commercial, but I don't think the term upgrade is one Nintendo necessarily wants in this situation. Technically, it's correct that families would be upgrading from one console to a newer one, but factoring the misconception the tablet controller gave many people about being an add-on to the Wii, and that sounds like a bad marketing idea to me... Edit: It doesn't help that the Wii and Wii U boxes look similar enough that hiding it behind the tablet controller doesn't give enough clear distinction that yes, this is something completely different from the Wii you already own. Desfore fucked around with this message at 03:45 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 03:41
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I find stuff like this thread kinda strange, I have two friends both working to get a wii-u because while the launch sucked rear end Q3/Q4 is sounding really good. We're all psyched for pikmin, wonderful 101, mario, smash bros and other assorted games and things just sound like they're taking awhile to pick up Pikmin could be good, maybe it's just me but I'm over Mario games. Galaxy was good, but not worth the price of admission and smash brothers is getting long in the tooth. Again, good games that would probably entice me otherwise but then I remember that I have to buy a whole new console just to play them and I think gently caress that, I'd rather spend that 300-400 bucks on 10 great PC games instead
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May 17, 2013 03:41
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Jetamo posted:In my opinion, the 3DS at launch was in EXACTLY the same position. Cut to now, and everyone's lauding it because of all the good games coming out for it. I seriously doubt any new hardware release is actually going to go smoothly due to the sheer increase in complexity of games nowadays. A portable isn't even remotely the same thing as a console release.
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May 17, 2013 03:41
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Jetamo posted:I seriously doubt any new hardware release is actually going to go smoothly due to the sheer increase in complexity of games nowadays. The increase in complexity... to the level of PC hardware a year ago? That increase?
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May 17, 2013 03:59
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I find stuff like this thread kinda strange, I have two friends both working to get a wii-u because while the launch sucked rear end Q3/Q4 is sounding really good. We're all psyched for pikmin, wonderful 101, mario, smash bros and other assorted games and things just sound like they're taking awhile to pick up I mean, this is also a product of our times. People are so saturated with information and "news" and outlets constantly try to turn non-stories into stories, so instead of waiting a year from the Sony/MS launches to start making serious judgments about this generation of consoles people have already decided that either console gaming is dead or Nintendo is dead in the water or alternately that Nintendo will be fine and everything will be fine based on several months of sales during the early-adopter period. I mean speculation is fine and even I've participated here but you're absolutely right that it has no bearing on how the majority of people actually think or spend their money. It's all just jerking each other off or clubbing each other over the head for "informed opinions" at the moment.
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May 17, 2013 04:04
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I don't understand how there is a market for a dedicated video game console any more. Most casual gamers prefer to play games on their smartphones or their iPads, while Steam has made PC gaming an increasingly dominant force amongst gaming hobbyists. As far as I can tell, the only thing that keeps gaming hobbyists buying consoles is beloved old franchises not being available on the PC. Also, now Steam, an HDMI cable and some Xbox 360 controllers provide the exact same experience as a console game.
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May 17, 2013 04:15
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NewtGoongrich posted:I don't understand how there is a market for a dedicated video game console any more. Most casual gamers prefer to play games on their smartphones or their iPads, while Steam has made PC gaming an increasingly dominant force amongst gaming hobbyists. As far as I can tell, the only thing that keeps gaming hobbyists buying consoles is beloved old franchises not being available on the PC. Because there is no middle ground between a guy who is willing to spend $1500 a year on a gaming PC, and people who only play smartphone games. None at all.
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May 17, 2013 04:21
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Fulchrum posted:Because there is no middle ground between a guy who is willing to spend $1500 a year on a gaming PC, and people who only play smartphone games. None at all. You really don't know what people spend on PCs do you?
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May 17, 2013 04:23
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