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homeless snail posted:They make these kinds of games all the time, problem is they're all on the 3DS. IntSys has spent the last couple years making quirky puzzles games that ended up being massive hits, the eshop is full of clever little things like Sakura Samurai and Rolling Western, and Kid Icarus Uprising is probably one of the greatest games of all time. There is just a ton of console-quality 3DS stuff that really probably should have been Wii U games if Nintendo wanted the thing to succeed. Hell even in their core franchises, the 3DS gets the absolutely amazing Super Mario 3D Land and then they just poo poo out yet another derivative New Super Mario on the Wii U. Oh yeah, how can I forget about the 3DS and its games? Silly me :P But whilst its great that Nintendo are putting massive emphasis on their handheld and for good reason, some of their game design thinking could aid them greatly on their newest home console. Not ports of the same stuff per se, but the same kind of logic. As for Beyonetta 2, not really much of a chance appearing on other systems as Nintendo is the publisher this time.
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May 16, 2013 20:45
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Oh, thanks for the info, goons. I remember being incredibly psyched initially then crushed. I guess I'll hold out until the possibility of a new Metroid game. I'm just going to go ahead in chime in on my initial and ongoing thought about the Wii U. "Why? Why is the Wii U this?"
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May 16, 2013 20:47
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Since I own both a Wii-U and a Dreamcast I have to say the comparison isn't accurate. The Dreamcast had a large library of games at the 6 month mark and towards the end built it up to a large extent. Was the dreamcast misrepresented in marketing? Yeah probably, because it certainly had the software to compete with the best of them. The Wii-U has like only 2-3 exclusive games worth owning.
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May 16, 2013 20:49
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Acquire Currency! posted:Serious question, it's going to sound like I'm just needlessly making GBS threads on the Wii U but; if sells remain poor for it will there be a chance that Bayonetta 2 won't remain a Wii U exclusive? I was slightly disappointed when I found that out.
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May 16, 2013 20:50
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Of course, with the Wii, Nintendo famously quit the technological arms race, and to a certain degree they deserve commendation for that - but now I'm curious, is there any information on if there was some sort of brain drain post-Gamecube? Now granted, Sony had experience making computers and Microsoft had experience with Windows obviously, but some of the engineering and UI/UX decisions Nintendo has made in the past and present are just baffling. Stuff like this:Billa posted:Not long ago the 'gamertag' was a 93489384 number string which was retarded to share among friends. I mean, seriously? It's almost like they hold in contempt the idea that anyone would want to have a network of online friends to play games with instead of sitting on a couch with a couple buddies. Anyway, back to the arms race thing, I think Nintendo was able to get away with it last generation since the Wiimote was so obviously different and interesting to everyone, gamers and non-gamers alike. Sure, it was barely more powerful than the Gamecube, but everyone remembers their first Wii bowling experience and how unique it was compared to everything else - to the point you even had loving nursing homes buying them for elderly residents to play with. Now, years later, that was pretty obviously a gimmick to a large degree, as I'd argue most of the 100 million Wiis that were sold are collecting dust, but selling a hundred million of the damned things is still pretty successful, gimmick or not. However, with the Wii U, they're again attempting to get by on a 'just enough' hardware upgrade and a gimmicky control input solution - only this time no one gives a poo poo about the gimmick, partly because everyone already has one or more touchscreen devices in their possession anyway. Ellen and Oprah aren't going to feature NintendoLand, nursing homes aren't going to buy them so the elderly can play Mario Chase, and pediatricians aren't going to consider Wii U play 'light exercise' so that parents can feel good about buying them for their kids/themselves. In short, it's all going to come down to the games for this system, and they've shot themselves in the foot with their limited hardware spec. Developers aren't going to want devote resources to creating separate, pared-down versions of their big AAA franchises, especially now that the other two big platforms are finally on a easy, x86-based architecture. Game development is now too expensive to create a new range of IPs for one single system, and even if developers did make pared-down versions for Wii U, the audience that buys big AAA titles aren't going to be attracted to playing them on Wii U when the 'real experience' will be on PS4/Xbox. Basically, not playing the arms race game is fine as long as you offer compelling experiences that can't be had elsewhere. I think it's safe to say at this point the Wii U Gamepad hasn't really done much of anything in that department, even in Nintendo's first party offerings.
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May 16, 2013 20:52
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All this talk about the Wii U being rushed out makes me wonder why they chose to do that. My best guess is that they saw the 360 being the first new console of its generation and the PS2 being the first new console of its generation, saw the success that those two consoles had, and tried to emulate it without realizing that "first out of the gate" wasn't all that made them successful. I could be talked into buying a Wii U if the right software comes out, especially since all these year-old ports are of games I never actually played (and I want to build a gaming PC in the near future, which will take care of the "current" gen when it's built), but this is the worst I've ever heard of the "Nintendo is hosed" narrative so that does make me uneasy. I wonder if a similar narrative will pop up for the PS4 and Durango during their first few months, and if such a narrative will take some heat off of the Wii U's problems. The first year or so of every console is rough but that doesn't excuse Nintendo's approach to the Wii U's first year. Mordiceius posted:When you create your Nintendo gamertag or whatever they call it, it is locked to the system you created it on. No creating a gamertag and logging into it on your friend's WiiU. It is locked to yours. I've never fully understood this criticism though I'll be transparent and admit that I don't own a 360 and haven't used my PS3 for any sort of online gaming. If those systems have such robust online services, why would you need to cart your profile to another friend's machine except for couch multiplayer? Which, mind you, is a proud tradition that needs to make a comeback  Or is it a concern that if the system bricks, your ID is lost and you need to go through Nintendo to get it back?E: Harlock posted:I just don't see what point the Wii U has in the current market. It's for weird people like me who mostly skipped the last console cycle and plan on getting their fill of it through PC gaming, and while most of the good stuff from Microsoft and Sony can be gotten on PC that's not the case for Nintendo. Then again I know I'm in a very small minority and am not even sure if my plan will come to fruition 
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May 16, 2013 20:57
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I don't think the DC is a fair comparison, the Dreamcast was horribly mis-managed sure but it was a console ahead of its time in many ways, and I doubt the Wii U is going to get quirky and amazing poo poo like Illbleed or Rent a Hero. Really I feel there's 2 issues holding the Wii U back. The first being a big lack of educating the consumer, I've seen signs at game stores or game sections pointing out that the Wii U is another console, the other I feel is the tablet controller, Nintendo wants to bring in the casual market because that's what gave such a massive success on the last cycle, but the tablet controller is the complete antithesis of the Wiimote, the Wiimote was small, simple to hold, looked like something a non gamer could get into due its simplicity, in the case of the Wii U you have the tablet which looks a hell of a lot more intimidating to your average non gamer. In a similar manner, they might say why would I bother with that the Wii U tablet when I can just use my own which has more features. I also wish Nintendo would embrace the future already, the online systems they use are a complete joke, just give me some kind of an account system, that's all I ask.
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May 16, 2013 20:59
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C-Euro posted:I've never fully understood this criticism though I'll be transparent and admit that I don't own a 360 and haven't used my PS3 for any sort of online gaming. If those systems have such robust online services, why would you need to cart your profile to another friend's machine except for couch multiplayer? Which, mind you, is a proud tradition that needs to make a comeback You have DLC for a game? Or maybe even a full game? You can login to your account and download on your friend's system. Want to play somewhere else and still get achievements? Watch Netflix? Have all the characters unlocked in a game and want to play it over your friend's house? Etc, etc. It's a lot of little things that add up. It's more damning that Nintendo is just actively ignoring all this, stuff that's now considered standard for a console.
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May 16, 2013 21:03
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C-Euro posted:I've never fully understood this criticism though I'll be transparent and admit that I don't own a 360 and haven't used my PS3 for any sort of online gaming. If those systems have such robust online services, why would you need to cart your profile to another friend's machine except for couch multiplayer? Which, mind you, is a proud tradition that needs to make a comeback Say you want to show off a new downloadable title to your friend that they don't own, or a new DLC for a game you own that haven't purchased yet. Easy, sign into your gamertag on system, download title/DLC, and play away. This was a pretty big deal among my friends during our Rock Band craze. Plus, I kinda hate to say it, but... achievements.
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May 16, 2013 21:04
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The thing is I don't get why they can't run their consoles like they can with their handhelds. The DS and 3DS had a ton more interesting and exclusive titles than the Gamecube, Wii, and Wii-U combined. And there's still games worth playing on the GBA. And the Wii-U falling short after launch was the same thing that happened to the 3DS. Only they bothered to fix the 3Ds's issues and release more titles for it.
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May 16, 2013 21:05
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The cost to develop for an actual home console is getting more and more astronomical these days. It's no surprise that the handheld market still has a wide variety of genres and games that may not be represented on home consoles because of the sheer cost of development. Not to mention a lot of the great games coming out of the East are on handheld systems because that's what sells over there.
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May 16, 2013 21:13
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There is a big problem with the Wii U's place in the current console market--it being once again the under-powered performer, reliant on some gimmick to diffientiate it from Sony and Microsoft. This worked really really well with the Wii, but sort of fizzled with the 3DS. They did a price-drop on that and a big marketing push with a string of strong releases, like Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, Luigi's Mansion, and Monster Hunter and the system seems to have bounced back, or is in the process. Who isn't to say the same won't happen here?
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May 16, 2013 21:20
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RentCavalier posted:There is a big problem with the Wii U's place in the current console market--it being once again the under-powered performer, reliant on some gimmick to diffientiate it from Sony and Microsoft. This worked really really well with the Wii, but sort of fizzled with the 3DS. They did a price-drop on that and a big marketing push with a string of strong releases, like Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, Luigi's Mansion, and Monster Hunter and the system seems to have bounced back, or is in the process. Who isn't to say the same won't happen here? I'm put off by the Wii U, but I'm afraid of what I'm going to do when the Zelda game inevitably hits. Hopefully it's bad because otherwise I'm buying a console I otherwise don't really want.
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May 16, 2013 21:29
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Winks posted:I'm put off by the Wii U, but I'm afraid of what I'm going to do when the Zelda game inevitably hits. Hopefully it's bad because otherwise I'm buying a console I otherwise don't really want. It will get perfect 10s, but actually be a bad game everyone hates, but five years later we'll be like "why can't the new Zelda be like that one? It wasn't really that bad in retrospect. In fact it's the best one ever!"
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May 16, 2013 21:32
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It's been brought up in this thread, and it's a really good point. Why is Nintendo still in the console business? Why not just pull out, and then start selling their titles on other consoles. They won't have to sink millions of dollars into R&D, and could still make a great profit. I guess the only problem with that for them is 100% of the profits don't go to them. I've really been disappointed in Nintendo after the N64, they've always played by their own rules and did whatever they wanted, but now the chickens are coming home to roost and the lack of respect they've had for third party developers is starting to kill them.
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May 16, 2013 21:34
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greatn posted:It will get perfect 10s, but actually be a bad game everyone hates, but five years later we'll be like "why can't the new Zelda be like that one? It wasn't really that bad in retrospect. In fact it's the best one ever!" To be fair I don't think anyone said this about Twilight Princess.
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May 16, 2013 21:34
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It hasn't been a year yet so ill enjoy this time next year asking the same question of ps4 and Xbox Doritos. Those two have a real issue with the rising cost of game development for their third party developers. Frankly if the next generation of AAA smells more like Assassins Creed 3 and less of Mario Galaxy I'm out.
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May 16, 2013 21:35
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Things that will fix the Wii U 1. Good God get more games out. Seriously even shovelware at this point would help just get boxes on loving shelves its a goddamned wasteland out there. 2. A price drop. Look I know you aren't making money per unit but you need to get this thing in homes or your hosed. 3. An ad campaign that say "hey you a new nintendo system is out, gently caress no it isn't just a controller" 4. Suck it up and ask EA and Activision to put poo poo on here, pay them if you have to because crap like Call of Duty and Madden sell no matter the console they are on. 5. Fund development yourselves of promising 3rd party titles. If you see something cool that would work on the Wii U pay the drat cost to port it yourself if a 3rd party has less to lose they would be more willing to put poo poo on your console. 6. Fill up the drat virtual console. Why the gently caress are there only 12 titles on the virtual console on this thing. What in the ever living gently caress are you doing. You have 30 years worth of software and a working emulator for 2 systems get your rear end in gear. 7. Inform the people {goes along with 3 but hey}, get demo kiosk at every mall and every game store in the country get the name out there. 8. Make getting poo poo on your digital download platform easier. They seem to be doing this but good lord the E-shop on the Wii U is a loving embarrassment. Ok I'm done.
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May 16, 2013 21:35
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Games. That's all we really need.
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May 16, 2013 21:35
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Nelson Mandingo posted:It's been brought up in this thread, and it's a really good point. I don't see Nintendo pulling out the console business entirely since their handhelds are selling extremely well.
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May 16, 2013 21:36
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ZTeamIsDead posted:I don't see Nintendo pulling out the console business entirely since their handhelds are selling extremely well. Wait until the 3ds successor. By that point smart phones will have almost completely killed the market I have no doubt. Yodzilla posted:To be fair I don't think anyone said this about Twilight Princess. *Raises hand* Favorite 3d Zelda (the Gamecube version not the gently caress off motion controlled mess of the Wii version)
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May 16, 2013 21:37
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Yodzilla posted:To be fair I don't think anyone said this about Twilight Princess. Give it time, it's still too fresh.
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May 16, 2013 21:37
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I own a Wii U and the only game myself and the wife enjoied playing was Little Inferno. The only other games I was even a little interested in was the new Scribblenauts (but since it came out on Steam with Steamworks support I got that version instead), Lego City Undercover (but after watching the Giant Bomb quick look for it and seeing the major load times and just how bad it looked I decided not to get it) and Zombie U (still havent gotten it because I been busy with work and other games.) The main reason I think Wii U is failing is like what OP said, marketing. All the first commmercials for the Wii U only showed the tablet, no system shots or anything. So of couse the people who bought the original Wii who are not game/tech savy (older people and maybe casual gamers) will not think its a new system or they will pass it up because why should they buy that thing when I got the only game i want for it, Wii Sports? Plus the name, Wii U. From day one I said that was a stupid name. I mean almost every gameing site said that the name was rather poor when it was announced at E3. Also I have to say that Nintendo's attatude towards the "hard core gamers". Reggie's explation of the Wii U game: "It's called the Wii U. The U is for all "u" hardcore gamers!" Just how he sounded when he said it. It had a condescending tone to it, as if he was pissed he had to say it. The problem with that, hardcore gamers already feel that Nintendo is a "children" game company. Their attatude from the Wii that hardcore gamers dont matter, blew up in their faces and now it's really biting them in the rear end. Will the Wii U kill Nintendo? No not really. They will string it along for I think another year or two. I think with the new PS4 and New Xbox comeing out the Wii U will be crippled in sales. The worse I think could happen is that Nintendo could get out of the home console market but stay with the hand held since the 3ds is ,for the moment, their money maker.
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May 16, 2013 21:38
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Nelson Mandingo posted:It's been brought up in this thread, and it's a really good point. Wiimote, duel screens, analog, rumble, gameboy, 3ds, the fact that third place GameCube made them boatloads of cash and let them make some sweet, sweet games. Not to mention competition breeds innovation.
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May 16, 2013 21:39
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I guess I'll try to consider every possible issue. Was Nintendo unprepared for the costs and production of next generation titles? I'd say this is a resounding yes as it has been admitted by Iwata. Nintendo used to make classics with teams of 30 people maximum. They had huge teams and brought in second and third parties to help make games in the past but now it feels like every major Nintendo title has someone working with Nintendo to get it done. Nintendo deserves blame for themselves in not researching. Are third parties skipping the Wii U due to attachment rate? No. I hear this brought up all of the time but any time a new console comes out, third party publishers do whatever they can to design games so people buy the console. They want consoles to have high attachment rates and the only way to have that happen is if your games are coming out for it. I doubt Enix expected to make money on Actraiser at launch. It was all about getting people to play it so once ActRaiser 2 came out, it was a recognizable game. The concept of skipping a new console because the numbers are low is just crazy based on history. Does Nintendo have to get better online? This is obvious. The idea of Nintendo adopting Origin would have been a big loving mistake but somebody at Nintendo should have looked at Steam and said, "This is what we are copying." I have always suspected Nintendo's higher ups being doubtful on online is because Nintendo tried it before pretty much anyone else with the Famicom and the Super Famicom Satelliview. To Nintendo it was just a novelty for consoles they didn't want to spend much on, ignoring how much people have adopted online play. It's also likely a philosophy thing. Nintendo is one of the only game publishers that still considers local multiplayer. Videogames used to rule local multiplayer and now things have shied away from it. This has lead to the growth of independent board games, which are selling better now than ever before. This is because online multiplayer and local multiplayer are two completely different beasts. Nintendo needs to hire someone who knows why it's important. They are getting better but there is huge room for improvement. Did Nintendo launch with the wrong games? Oh gently caress yes. NES had Super Mario Bros. included. SNES had Super Mario World. N64 you could purchase Super Mario 64. Gamecube had Luigi's Mansion but if you waited a month or so for Christmas you had Super Smash Bros. Melee one of the greatest Gamecube games out soon after. Wii had Wii Sports which is what some people still think that's all the console was good for. Wii U has... New Super Mario Bros. U? Nintendoland? Not good enough. NSMBWii sold like hotcakes on the Wii but that was when people already had Wii's. It is not a game that makes people run out and want a Wii U. They needed a killer app and didn't have one. Mario Kart could wait because Sega had filled the void with Sonic. Nobody is filling the void for a great 3D platformer which people come to expect from Nintendo. And Nintendoland, while I hear it's a great local multiplayer game, it isn't replacing what Wii Sports provided. There also seems to be a real lack of casual titles for the Wii U coming out, as well as a lack of fitness games, which makes no bloody sense. Why aren't you bringing the old Wii casual base over to the Wii U? Is the console strong enough? So far, it seems like Nintendo thought by going with a strong GPU they didn't have to work with a strong CPU. It seems like this has made it hard for modern game engines to wrap around the Wii U. That said, this wasn't really the narrative back before the Wii U came out. Everything was supposed to work fine with it. The Darksiders II developers stated it only took them a few weeks to get the game up and running (that used the Phoenix engine). It feels like Nintendo didn't consult with any of the modern game engine developers to see what they would need for easy game conversion. That said, it raises serious suspicion from me when game engine developers say, "No it doesn't work" and then a day later backtracks their statements with, "Oh no it totally works, we just don't suggest you try." Makes you wonder. Can Lateral Thinking with Withered Technology still work in today's industry? I personally go with yes. Nintendo decided to design a console better suited for the 360/PS3 era when those consoles were on their way out to be replaced with more expensive, more hardware intense consoles. They do this every time really but Wii and Wii U were the first times it was the industry leaders doing it. SNES was weaker than what the Neo Geo could do but people wanted to be able to buy the console. It's more obvious than ever that gaming is getting too expensive for the average consumer and creating AAA titles and not having a middle class/middle ground is leading to companies going under for taking too many gambles with titles breaking the bank all of the time. The Wii provided a middle ground for developers to create games that don't cost AAA but they can make their money back on it. It wasn't even utilized properly in this way. The Wii U now is going after indie developers to bring their titles to the Wii U to fill in the void of AAA publishers. What eventually needs to happen is Nintendo encouraging developers to create limited budget games, games they can comfortably sell at $39.99 and will still give people a lot of fun. This is why the lack of casual titles bewilders me. Nintendo could provide an alternative to the murky first person bro-reality that 360 and PS3 relies on and convince companies that they could make more money releasing a $20M title on Nintendo than making a $250M title on PS4/Infinity. It isn't being done yet and Nintendo needs to do better. Is the marketing for the Wii U a failure? A resounding yes. Is the development of the console bizarre and behind schedule? Absolutely. Can Nintendo afford the Wii U to fail? Unquestionably. Pokémon alone makes Nintendo more money than some major publishers make every year. While some people might lose their jobs with Nintendo being a publicly traded company, that doesn't mean Nintendo has to leave the hardware industry with this flopping. That said, it's far too loving early to decide. Is the Wii U Nintendo's Dreamcast? Dreamcast sold 300,000 units in North America and still sold well after the PS2 was released with terrible production shortages and only six games. It wasn't until the fall of 2000 that sales started hurting to the point where nobody really wanted to own it anymore. It had 200 games by 2001. The biggest difference is Sega ran out of money. Nintendo isn't running out of money. What Nintendo might be suffering from is a limitation of the corporate heads in knowing how to compete in the modern hardware market. The Wii U needs more games, a new marketing campaign and to figure out every possible way to appease the market. Virtual Console games are coming out too slowly and they are still priced at an unattractive point. The price of the console, while I don't believe is "high" is unattractive. There isn't enough games out yet and the games out currently are not good enough to distract on this. There are a considerable amount of issues but the truth is, we don't know how things will be for the PS4/X-Box Infinity. The market might not be able to afford to switch to those consoles as freely as they did in the past. 360's and PS3's will still probably sell for the next two years because of a drop in price and the affordability of used titles. People assuming that what's going on with Nintendo can't happen with Sony and Microsoft is a bit shortsighted. Especially since games increasing in price might happen. Games have stayed the same retail price to what they were in the early 90s despite the money conversion saying modern games should be costing gamers between $79.99 and $99.99 It's too early to call this a failure. It isn't looking good but a failure means it can't recover. It can unquestionably recover. At worst, this won't be the Dreamcast in my mind. It'll be another Gamecube.
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May 16, 2013 21:44
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WendigoJohnson posted:The thing is I don't get why they can't run their consoles like they can with their handhelds. The DS and 3DS had a ton more interesting and exclusive titles than the Gamecube, Wii, and Wii-U combined. And there's still games worth playing on the GBA. Nintendo has serious development pipeline issues going on at the moment. That's pretty much the crux of it. Look at how some games have slipped out of a reasonable launch window, while others have been hastily announced for coming out "this year". I'm curious to see how Pikmin will really turn out, and how they're going to manage a new Mario Kart and a new 3D Mario in time for the holidays. On top of their own woes, they've managed to completely fail at driving up third-party interest at developing for the system, either due to bad inter-company politics or because they haven't been willing to spend the money needed to secure the support the Wii U needs. These are things that should have been ironed out as early as 2010. They spent the entire Wii-generation essentially ignoring all of the hard lessons Sony and MS had to learn the hard way regarding modern game development. They have REPEATEDLY stated how they've "learned" that "launching a console at a poo poo price with poo poo for software is bad and makes us and our product look bad, so we won't do that", and then they did this twice in a row. They've refused to accept the openly negative feedback regarding their eShop from fans and critics alike, hence why after years of supporting the Wii's own eShop and developing the content on it and Virtual Console slowly over time, they've decided to start completely from the beginning for both the 3DS and the Wii U, complete with setting up drip-feeds of content once again. Some folks have pointed to the 3DS and have said "Well that started pretty bad, but Nintendo turned it around! Something something (some other system) is doing poo poo by comparison now!" They CONSISTENTLY ignore or completely dismiss the fact that the 3DS had to suffer a massive price cut (which contributed to Nintendo actually posting a loss for that year) while unleashing the Ambassador program (featuring emulated games they probably would have been happier to sell at ridiculous prices, as is the standard for Virtual Console releases), AND turning up production of first party games while also spending money to secure important third party support on the system. Turning the Wii U around sounds as simple as "Just do what they did with 3DS!" It's going to cost a LOT MORE to Nintendo to do this, however, and on top of all the money they have to spend they also have to hope that their upcoming competition manages to be completely incompetent at their respective launches. It doesn't help that major third parties are already throwing in their lots on supporting the new systems. It'd be a mistake to consider the Wii U Nintendo's own Dreamcast, because Nintendo is in much better shape financially. They can sustain the losses necessary to turn things around, the question really is how willing they are to do so. At this point I'd say it's a lot closer to being another Virtual Boy. If they somehow fail to turn the system around, some people are going to be out of a job, and the system will be barely discussed by anyone from Nintendo. Whether or not they actually learn something from such a disaster is anyone's guess, but its easy to be pessimistic considering how well they've learned other lessons over the last eight years. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 21:52 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 21:47
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I dunno I think a lot of this is very similar to the 3ds launch in how it flopped around for a while until Nintendo figured out what they wanted to do with it. The 3ds also didn't benefit from any distinction from the old ds other then being in 3d. There's only two outcomes to this either it gets the kind of support the ds got and a decent number of good games come out or it does become a dreamcast with no support. People are really forgetting the slow burn launch of the ds and how for a short time everyone thought the psp was looking to take over when monster hunter was onboard. The power of a console has never once made a difference in anything. It doesn't matter what gimmicks the controllers have or whatever the gently caress. The only thing that matters is the games that are made. If enough good games are being made the console will do well and if not then it will flounder.
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May 16, 2013 21:49
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Nelson Mandingo posted:It's been brought up in this thread, and it's a really good point. Nelson Mandingo posted:they've always played by their own rules and did whatever they wanted Nintendo has always been about doing their own thing and they probably don't think that the Nintendo games that they're best known for (your Marios, Zeldas, Metroids etc) would be the same if Microsoft or Sony was lording over them, and many people who love those games (not just Nintendo lifers) probably have the same concern. Nintendo has also been about innovating and making money on hardware, early Nintendo consoles were dirt cheap to produce and they've also been the first to use several hardware innovations that others picked up on later. Not just motion controls but rumble and touchscreens as well, plus having the same controller in a million different colors If Nintendo wanted to re-brand the Wii U, what would be feasible? Obviously a re-vamped marketing campaign, but could they push out a big OS update that eliminates people's grievances with locked-to-machine accounts and the like? Could they release a Wii U with more horsepower in a year or two without further confusing their install base (probably a pipe dream at best)? E: This is mostly for my own curiosity, but how popular is online console gaming in Japan? Whenever I think of online gaming I always think about your Call of Dutys (Calls of Duty?), your Battlefields, your Halos, basically games from western developers that are marketed more towards western audiences. Meanwhile the only Japan-centric online games I can think of off the top of my heads are the Monster Hunter games (which are huge there, admittedly). If online console gaming isn't a huge thing in Japan it could explain why Nintendo has been so slow to adopt it. Of the three console makers they're the ones with their brains most firmly rooted in Japan. I could be wrong about it though. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 22:00 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 21:53
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The most recent giant bombcast made a pretty interesting point that has really changed my thinking about the wii-u. Basically it's easy to think this is just nintendo's folly. They messed up somehow, bad marketing, the wrong games, some bad ports, whatever. But it's actually kinda equally possible that this is just the early warning that console gaming is in huge trouble. Which it kinda is, this current generation has the longest and largest install base of any set of consoles ever in history and a bunch of huge companies can't actually make profits. Almost all the giant companies are struggling, so replacing what they got with consoles with tiny new install bases and require even MORE investment to make games isn't actually a thing where the outcome is obvious, moreso in that consoles aren't the only big ticket electronics fighting for people's wallet anymore. It's actually not clear that this is some weird random "lol nintendo" snag, it's actually absolutely possible this is where consoles are right now and the ps4 and xbox are gonna come out stillborn too.
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May 16, 2013 21:54
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randombattle posted:The power of a console has never once made a difference in anything. It doesn't matter what gimmicks the controllers have or whatever the gently caress. The only thing that matters is the games that are made. If enough good games are being made the console will do well and if not then it will flounder. The dreamcast as mentioned in the op would be a counterpoint to this. It had a lot of good games and ultimately tanked in the face of competition.
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May 16, 2013 21:59
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Good discussion so far but before it gets there (and it will), let's avoid saying Nintendo should go third party or start making games for other platforms, because they never will.
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May 16, 2013 22:03
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Louisgod posted:Good discussion so far but before it gets there (and it will), let's avoid saying Nintendo should go third party or start making games for other platforms, because they never will. At the risk of sparking the ire of god, how can we be sure of that?
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May 16, 2013 22:11
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RagnarokAngel posted:The dreamcast as mentioned in the op would be a counterpoint to this. It had a lot of good games and ultimately tanked in the face of competition. It didnt really though. It didnt have enough third party support to sustain it and keep it going. With out a decent ecosystem of support it relied on a few flagship games but ultimately it was easier to develop for the other consoles so support dried up and Sega simply couldn't sustain it with arcade ports.
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May 16, 2013 22:12
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Louisgod posted:Good discussion so far but before it gets there (and it will), let's avoid saying Nintendo should go third party or start making games for other platforms, because they never will. It's kinda already happened, sir Nelson Mandingo posted:It's been brought up in this thread, and it's a really good point. I don't think Nintendo should pull out of hardware. The 3DS proves that they CAN DO WHAT IS NECESSARY to fix a bad launch and bad first impressions. They just need to show the willingness to acknowledge their issues and confront them. The problem is that they are not showing that willingness right now. Some people in the Wii U thread have played down Nintendo's current approach to e3 and have lionized the Nintendo Directs as being the best thing since sliced bread, but all they are really doing is focusing on an echo chamber of fans who are willing to come up with any number of excuses necessary to explain why the system is having a rough go at it. By doing this with their marketing, they are not only failing to convince those "hardcore" gamers who are on the fence about the value of a Wii U, they are also failing to reach out to the market that made the Wii a success in the first place. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 22:13
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randombattle posted:The power of a console has never once made a difference in anything. It doesn't matter what gimmicks the controllers have or whatever the gently caress. The only thing that matters is the games that are made. If enough good games are being made the console will do well and if not then it will flounder. But a huge power gap can lead to an extreme drop in games, especially in the present day. Do you honestly think that Bethesda are going to make an Elder Scrolls sequel for the Ps4 and Xbox 720, then try to scale it down and fit it onto the WiiU? EA are already very clear that they won't for any of their games, so say goodbye to games from the biggest publisher of console games on the planet. Which leaves Nintendo struggling to attract smaller developers. Except their hook for that isn't any good - Sony has been agressively courting indies for some time (over four years if you count from when they started the Pub Fund), and Nintendo lacks a lot of the infrastructure in place to attract indies. Meaning they're stuck trying to attract Japanese developers. Who, for years, have been seeing their ability to sell to gamers outside of Japan diminish considerably.
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May 16, 2013 22:13
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Louisgod posted:Good discussion so far but before it gets there (and it will), let's avoid saying Nintendo should go third party or start making games for other platforms, because they never will. Will they ever start making games for Wii U? Edit: This stupid company thinks Pikmin is going to sell consoles!
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May 16, 2013 22:13
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But Nintendo did at least publish a few things way long ago on other platforms:  I'm curious how did they accomplish the deal with interplay and Phillips. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 22:15
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Space Racist posted:Of course, with the Wii, Nintendo famously quit the technological arms race, and to a certain degree they deserve commendation for that - but now I'm curious, is there any information on if there was some sort of brain drain post-Gamecube? Now granted, Sony had experience making computers and Microsoft had experience with Windows obviously, but some of the engineering and UI/UX decisions Nintendo has made in the past and present are just baffling. Stuff like this: This has been "a thing" for a while. Nintendo (long the default "game device" name for people who weren't interested in gaming) has always caught all sorts of poo poo when it comes any sort of multiplayer/online interaction, lest we forget this particular steaming pile of "news" (among others). It's the same reason Nintendo consoles have always had that annoying Health & Safety screen when you turn on the device. They homogenize the activity so nobody can be offended. I remember back when the DS first started putting out Friend Codes, then we all got Wiis and, oh look, a Wii code. There was hope! Maybe they were moving towards a system-based code! And then all of our hopes were summarily crushed by game-based FCs again. 
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May 16, 2013 22:16
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greatn posted:It will get perfect 10s, but actually be a bad game everyone hates, but five years later we'll be like "why can't the new Zelda be like that one? It wasn't really that bad in retrospect. In fact it's the best one ever!" I know a lot of Zelda fans who are saying,"I hated TP, but after playing Skyward Sword I have to admit it wasn't that bad."
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May 16, 2013 22:18
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Throwdini posted:Edit: This stupid company thinks Pikmin is going to sell consoles!
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May 16, 2013 22:19
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