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The thing is Hartnell is the First Doctor. Like how Sean IS his version of James Bond. Or Val Kilmer Batman and George Clooney Batman are not the same kind of Batman. With the Doctor, that's important, because that's why they're recast as new characters. It's not ghoulish, it just misses the point. Bradely plays his Doctor very differently than Hartnell, but he's supposed to be the same Doctor. But you can't expect him to just play Hartnell's Doctor that would be unfair to him as an actor. It's almost like the role of the Doctor is a unique thing in acting and history, and shouldn't be devalued by replacing the actors once the original has passed away. Instead, just retire the character and don't loving touch them again unless you can spin something like Day of the Doctor with the old footage. If Bradely was some future regeneration of the Doctor like Tom Baker as the Curator, I would be 100% on board with this. But no, he's being a character that he shouldn't be. The First Doctor is William Hartnell.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:07
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What if David Bradley will actually be playing the Abbot of Amboise
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Jul 24, 2017 17:11
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thexerox123 posted:Hey, guess what, Doctor Who is fictional no matter what context people are performing him in. My god you've opened my eyes (The Doctor is explicitly not fictional in universe in The Mind Robber, by the way)
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Jul 24, 2017 18:49
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Riptor posted:holy christ Just to add, bloody hellfire.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:57
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HERAK posted:Just to add, bloody hellfire. Oh, my sainted aunt!
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Jul 24, 2017 18:59
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Counterpoint: hey why not. Seems like they're going well out of their way to highlight that this is a different actor. Not like they're Crispin Glovering it.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:28
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Especially after fifty years, with the actor dead for forty-ish of them. I think it's okay for the First Doctor to enter Sherlock Holmes/Miss Marple territory at this point, with multiple portrayals, each unique to the actor. It gets much fuzzier when the actors are still around and could play the role with little/no dissonance (as much for labor equity reasons as anything), but there are precedents for changing actors for contract reasons, say, and it working fine. I'd love to know the various ex-Doctor actors' opinions on someone else David Bradley-ing "their" Doctor. They probably have a much more interesting perspective on this than I do.
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Jul 25, 2017 13:20
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Can't wait for The Fourteen Doctors
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Jul 25, 2017 15:20
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Burkion posted:It's almost like the role of the Doctor is a unique thing in acting and history, and shouldn't be devalued by replacing the actors once the original has passed away. I know Doctor Who fandom is kinda the lowest rung on the slimy, diseased ladder that is fandom, but that's some crazy crap right there. Unique? Shouldn't be? Doctor Who is not sacrosanct and certainly not unique.
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Jul 25, 2017 15:32
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Mortanis posted:I know Doctor Who fandom is kinda the lowest rung on the slimy, diseased ladder that is fandom Let me tell you about Supernatural…
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Jul 25, 2017 15:34
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Mortanis posted:I know Doctor Who fandom is kinda the lowest rung on the slimy, diseased ladder that is fandom, but that's some crazy crap right there. Unique? Shouldn't be? So you're just going to miss the point of what I was trying to say entirely in favor of insults, good to know. Let me put it this way, not that you'll care. If some one was going to play Adam West Batman, that wasn't Adam West, in some big movie- I'd have just as much of a problem with that.
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Jul 25, 2017 15:50
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Burkion posted:So you're just going to miss the point of what I was trying to say entirely in favor of insults, good to know. This is kind of what I'm saying, like this isn't recasting James Bond, it's recasting "Sean Connery as James Bond." It's not recasting Batman, it's recasting "Val Kilmer as Batman." It'd be like if they'd asked Chris Pine to "do William Shatner." What Burkion means, I think, when he says "unique" is that, really, the "First Doctor" is not a character, even though we like to think of him as one, something we don't really do with other media. Nobody calls Sean Connery "the First Bond," so nobody would ever think of recasting "Connery Bond." The Doctor is a character; the "First Doctor" is our shorthand for saying it's William Hartnell's portrayal of that character.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:02
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Let's see how many different ways Bicyclops can repeat the same dumb thing in different phrasings. Edit: I do apologize for this in retrospect, I got frustrated with the argument as a whole and took it out on Bicyclops. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 16:05
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thexerox123 posted:Let's see how many different ways Bicyclops can repeat the same dumb thing in different phrasings. Let's see how many times you can remind us all that you're so incredibly superior for having a different opinion
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Jul 25, 2017 16:16
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"Let us remind ourselves that David Bradley is the First Doctor whether we like it or not." Proceeds to choke you.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:18
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Let's see how many times you can remind us all that you're so incredibly superior for having a different opinion No, I'm just tired of an argument that comes back to the exact same point over and over and over again. Yes, we get it, it's Hartnell's Doctor. Other people just don't care. As Gaz-L expressed a page ago. It's no different from people complaining about the Doctor changing to a woman because he's always been a man. Saying the same point in different ways won't make a difference.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:24
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Bicyclops posted:This is kind of what I'm saying, like this isn't recasting James Bond, it's recasting "Sean Connery as James Bond." It's not recasting Batman, it's recasting "Val Kilmer as Batman." It'd be like if they'd asked Chris Pine to "do William Shatner." Here's why none of those comparisons work, though.... Sean Connery as James Bond never had a crossover episode with the other James Bonds. He is not established in-universe as a separate character who could show up at any time via time travel. Same with Batman. (It probably could work in Star Trek, and all of those characters already ARE playing those original portrayals, despite many of the cast still being alive. Chris Pine IS doing William Shatner just as much as David Bradley is doing Hartnell. And if you don't think that Karl Urban is doing a DeForrest Kelley portrayal, I don't know what to say.)
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Jul 25, 2017 16:29
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There's actually an argument about someone playing a Doctor Who and it isn't about Jodie Whittaker? I'm so mad I've put my foot through my iPhone screen and sent Lowtax the bill!
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Jul 25, 2017 16:32
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Now that I think about it, if someone made a movie that was a crossover between the different James Bonds and tried to explain the different versions... I would be so down to watch that.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:34
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thexerox123 posted:Here's why none of those comparisons work, though.... Sean Connery as James Bond never had a crossover episode with the other James Bonds. He is not established in-universe as a separate character who could show up at any time via time travel. Same with Batman. I'd actually disagree about Pine (until Beyond, it felt like he was doing the caricature that cultural osmosis would have you BELIEVE Kirk was as played by Shatner), but Urban is absolutely doing Kelley. And I think Quinto thinks he's doing Nimoy, but it doesn't always read. But Bond or Batman are probably the closest analogues we have where the actor's portrayal makes the character substantially different enough to be distinct. Roger Moore Bond and Timothy Dalton Bond and Pierce Brosnan Bond are so different as to be nigh unrecognisable from one another and if the franchise was more compatible with the notion of doing that kind of crossover, you can bet it would've happened by now. Hell, I swear they intended the groundskeeper from Skyfall to be Connery. (And if WB could get away with it, they absolutely would do Affleck and Bale in Batman Vs Batman) Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 16:38
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Gaz-L posted:I'd actually disagree about Pine (until Beyond, it felt like he was doing the caricature that cultural osmosis would have you BELIEVE Kirk was as played by Shatner), but Urban is absolutely doing Kelley. And I think Quinto thinks he's doing Nimoy, but it doesn't always read. Oh no, I agree that they're not, like, impersonations of the roles, but neither is David Bradley's portrayal, from what we've seen. In both cases they seem to be taking the source material and making it somewhat their own. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 16:39
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Gaz-L posted:I'd actually disagree about Pine (until Beyond, it felt like he was doing the caricature that cultural osmosis would have you BELIEVE Kirk was as played by Shatner), but Urban is absolutely doing Kelley. And I think Quinto thinks he's doing Nimoy, but it doesn't always read. Yeah, as much as I like Skyfall, it would have been such an awesome ending to have Skyfall (the place) not be his childhood home, but a kind of retirement home for ex spies. And go loving crazy, have Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan all be there. Instead they went the other direction, killing the "many Bonds" theory. Note this would have actually been a pretty bad idea for the franchise. But I like watching crazy poo poo go down.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:57
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that would have been a really bad ending for skyfall
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Jul 25, 2017 17:04
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Looke posted:that would have been a really bad ending for skyfall I know, it's good no one lets me write movies.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:07
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New portrayals of past Doctors onscreen makes for a tricky subject but I tend to come down in favor of the idea - it's only a question of execution. The idea of the Twelfth Doctor and the First meeting one another on the brink of their respective regenerations (at the hands of the Cybermen) is incredibly strong. It's a fantastic hook. But to say "we can never recast Hartnell's Doctor" is to confine that story concept to print mediums - to deny it textual primacy, relegate it to spin-off material like Circular Time - Winter, and in doing so grossly reduce its potential audience. Also David Bradley rules, so I have a good feeling about the execution side of things. Now maybe when I'm old and graying and Cbakes is long beyond this world and some rando half my age is cast to wear the Coat for Season 87, I might feel differently. Who knows? Who Nose.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:13
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the 13th doctor shouldve been an ood and no one can convince me otherwise but a lady ood
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Jul 25, 2017 17:37
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Riptor posted:the 13th doctor shouldve been an ood and no one can convince me otherwise See, now this is an opinion! Why can't you all be more like Riptor?
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Jul 25, 2017 17:41
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I have other thoughts too. For example the tardis should also be an ood.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:44
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Ood companion. A sonic Ood. All Ood soundtrack. Oodles of Oods, all the way down.thexerox123 posted:Now that I think about it, if someone made a movie that was a crossover between the different James Bonds and tried to explain the different versions... I would be so down to watch that. I think it would be pretty bad, if only because Roger Moore is dead and Sean Connery is retired. They could get people to do facsimiles, but so much of the appeal is the charisma those actors had with their suave disdain. It might be worth it just to have a scene where George Lazenby opens his mouth to try to argue that he wasn't that bad, and history has been kinder to him than the other Bonds, only for him to get immediately interrupted and never be in the movie again.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:09
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So, would it be more controversial if the new Doctor was Irish? I mean, not just an Irish actor, but a Catholic one using his native accent.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:10
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Just don't recast the Ood-voicebox. That would be ghastly and disrespectful.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:16
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Bicyclops posted:Ood companion. A sonic Ood. All Ood soundtrack. Oodles of Oods, all the way down. Check your lease man! Because you're living in Ood City
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Jul 25, 2017 18:22
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Crossover movie revealing that James Bond is a series of future regenerations for the Doctor. Pierce Brosnan plays Roger Moore Bond. John Barrowman plays Jack Harkness playing Pierce Brosnan Bond. Capaldi and Smith play Smith and Capaldi. Maggie Smith plays Sean Connery.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:28
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Y'know, I withdraw my comment. The more I think about it, it's pretty silly to play "what about x" with regards to the Doctor. If the new one is a woman, whatever. They should just get someone appropriate for the role.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:32
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Sean Connery in full ood prosthesis as another Sean Connery.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:33
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Squizzle posted:Sean Connery in full ood prosthesis as another Sean Connery. It's just Sean Connery's all the way down. Or Anthony Hopkins as Michael Caine as the Doctor.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:34
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Anthony Hopkins as Richard Nixon as Patrick Troughton as the Second Doctor as Ramón Salamander
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Jul 25, 2017 18:39
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SimonCat posted:So, would it be more controversial if the new Doctor was Irish?
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Jul 25, 2017 18:42
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Gorn Myson posted:Only if the Master is a Protestant from Northern Ireland. "Welcome to the new leader of the Northern Ireland Assembly, Miss Saxon of the DUP."
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Jul 25, 2017 18:54
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Gorn Myson posted:Only if the Master is a Protestant from Northern Ireland. So that's Colm Meaney as the Doctor and Kenneth Branagh as the Master.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:54
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