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Ensign_Ricky posted:Well, at least Tennant knows a good photobomb opportunity when he sees one! Drythe posted:^^^ That photo is a few years old and the original had no Tennant sadly. That's not to say Tennant would never photobomb a shot like that. He probably would. So would Matt for that matter. Oh god, that's how the special's going to start, isn't it? Ten and Rose step out of the Tardis like any episode in Season Two, talk and wander around for a bit, maybe you'll notice a second blue phone box when you rewatch the scene, and then we'll see Eleven pointing and gurning in the background like he's wont to do. Kevos Setzer fucked around with this message at 00:14 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 00:12
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 00:58 |
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I also hadn't noticed that the Great Intelligence was voiced by Ian McKellan so thanks for pointing that out! Do we actually know that John Hurt is the time war Doctor, or is that just the leading fan theory at the moment? It's just that Eccleston's Doctor used to talk about the Time War quite a lot, including his role in ending it. That could still mean it was a previous incarnation but it wasn't a secret or something he disowned. The ending of Name of the Doctor doesn't seem to fit. Or maybe Matt Smith's Doctor just has a different attitude to Eccelston's  I'm going to love watching John Hurt though, whatever story they give him.
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May 22, 2013 01:09
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00Kevin posted:That's not to say Tennant would never photobomb a shot like that. He probably would. So would Matt for that matter. I can certainly think of worse ways for the special to start. *cough*tardiscoral*cough*
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May 22, 2013 01:47
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The mark of good Doctor Who to me, is that I've been thinking about the finale for 3 solid days. Specifically the John Hurt doctor. I don't know if its been suggested yet, but what if Hurt had nothing to do with the time war? What if he was forced to sacrifice/kill his companions? What would make the Doctor (all of him) so sick to his gut, that he'd basically banish an entire incarnation? I think Time War shannanigans is way too obvious.
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May 22, 2013 03:03
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Oh hey, Spoiler Thread, wazzup?  Classtoise posted:Although if the "McGann regeneration" scene is true, that won't mesh and maybe the "He was stripped of his title so there are only 11 DOCTORS, but 11 regenerations total", but this makes Matt the Valeyard, because it's his penultimate regeneration. Pretty much. The idea is that Smith is the 11th one of this being to hold the title/name of "Doctor," but the 12th incarnation. One of them isn't considered "The/A Doctor" by his successors. This changes nothing then, about 9's guilt or the things 9/10 said about "I made it happen" and "I was there." One correction though:  the Valeyard was either the 13th Doctor or an incarnation between the Doctor's 12th and final incarnation.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EznNXZqWFXA So Smith would next regenerate into The Valeyard. The "between" stuff was always a little vague, and it seemed like The Valeyard would be some other odd being like The Watcher or The Dream Lord, an idea made manifest. However this concept that there can be incarnations not known as "The Doctor" as well as the fact that the Great Intelligence said The Valeyard was a name by which The Doctor would someday be known suggests different. I'd say at this point it's very straightforward that when Smith regenerates he will regenerate into a darker being. He might still call himself The Doctor at first. But he'll still be doing the morally ambiguous stuff we've seen over the past 2 regenerations and eventually start doing horrible things to justify the ends, and come to call himself The Valeyard.
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May 22, 2013 03:41
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Burkion posted:I've heard from the Colin Baker Fan Twitter that all of the living Doctors have filmed parts for the 50th. https://twitter.com/ColinBakerFans God drat I hope Colin Baker films something for next season, that would be loving fantastic.
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May 22, 2013 03:56
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Astroman posted:Oh hey, Spoiler Thread, wazzup? I dunno. I still hold to the classic Who idea that the Valeyard comes between the 12th and final Doctor, as a manifestation of his darker impulses. The Valeyard is inseparable from the Doctor because he is the Doctor - he's a vital component of him. All of our darker impulses are vital components of us. And further, I do believe that the inclusion of the Dream Lord may even be a hint toward how things will go when Matt regenerates. If Moffat wasn't planning this whole 'forgotten Doctor' thing back then (and I think it's really possible that he was), there's certainly the set-up for the Dream Lord to reassert it/himself during Matt's regeneration and force a physical entity that is the Valeyard. Hell, if Moffat decides to have the Valeyard as a future villain, maybe he'll get Toby Jones to play him! It'd certainly fit, I think.
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May 22, 2013 03:57
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Renzian posted:I dunno. I still hold to the classic Who idea that the Valeyard comes between the 12th and final Doctor, as a manifestation of his darker impulses. The Valeyard is inseparable from the Doctor because he is the Doctor - he's a vital component of him. All of our darker impulses are vital components of us. And further, I do believe that the inclusion of the Dream Lord may even be a hint toward how things will go when Matt regenerates. If Moffat wasn't planning this whole 'forgotten Doctor' thing back then (and I think it's really possible that he was), there's certainly the set-up for the Dream Lord to reassert it/himself during Matt's regeneration and force a physical entity that is the Valeyard. Hell, if Moffat decides to have the Valeyard as a future villain, maybe he'll get Toby Jones to play him! It'd certainly fit, I think. Man they aren't gonna hold true to the 13 regeneration a thing, it was a throwaway line in the original story, if the ratings are still strong they will go past 13 for sure.
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May 22, 2013 04:01
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Porkchop Express posted:Man they aren't gonna hold true to the 13 regeneration a thing, it was a throwaway line in the original story, if the ratings are still strong they will go past 13 for sure. Oh I'm totally with you. I don't doubt for a second that the show will continue on past 13 incarnations of the Doctor - but I think the dramatic potential for the Valeyard as a villain is there, and I really think I recall the Master saying in Trial of a Time Lord that the Valeyard shows/showed up between the 12th and final regeneration of the Doctor. But, I haven't seen it in a while, so I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
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May 22, 2013 04:09
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Porkchop Express posted:Man they aren't gonna hold true to the 13 regeneration a thing, it was a throwaway line in the original story, if the ratings are still strong they will go past 13 for sure. They'll find a way around it, but it's a bit more than a throw-away line at this point - it's the reason that the Master has to keep stealing people's bodies in Old Who. They'll use it to give the Doctor a little mortality for a season or so once we hear that whoever plays Thirteen is leaving, assuming the show runs that long. edit: Renzian posted:Oh I'm totally with you. I don't doubt for a second that the show will continue on past 13 incarnations of the Doctor - but I think the dramatic potential for the Valeyard as a villain is there, and I really think I recall the Master saying in Trial of a Time Lord that the Valeyard shows/showed up between the 12th and final regeneration of the Doctor. But, I haven't seen it in a while, so I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Yeah, he says it's somewhere between the two incarnations (mostly because the writers made them change it from simply being the Thirteenth Doctor, probably.)
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May 22, 2013 04:12
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Renzian posted:Oh I'm totally with you. I don't doubt for a second that the show will continue on past 13 incarnations of the Doctor - but I think the dramatic potential for the Valeyard as a villain is there, and I really think I recall the Master saying in Trial of a Time Lord that the Valeyard shows/showed up between the 12th and final regeneration of the Doctor. But, I haven't seen it in a while, so I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Yeah, the Valeyard as an enemy would be pretty good, a lot better than trudging the master out again if you ask me.
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May 22, 2013 04:15
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Porkchop Express posted:Man they aren't gonna hold true to the 13 regeneration a thing, it was a throwaway line in the original story, if the ratings are still strong they will go past 13 for sure. They certainly will, the same way the 12th Doctor won't turn into The Valeyard and be evil forever. It's just plot points for them to get some stories on. And before someone comes in and says:  "I hope they will just regenerate him and not say a THING about it or acknowledge it at all!" or  "But you see, in episode 43 of the Sarah Jane Adventures he said he had 570 regenerations, therefore..." I think it's safe to say that Moffat dropping the Valeyard and every other nerdy thing he's thrown in shows that Moffat would more than likely keep with the 12 regeneration limit and give the Doctor a new cycle explicitly.
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May 22, 2013 04:17
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Astroman posted:They certainly will, the same way the 12th Doctor won't turn into The Valeyard and be evil forever. It's just plot points for them to get some stories on. Moffat is unlikely to be the showrunner by then, I think, but yes, I think they'll acknowledge that it's his last regeneration, and probably with more than a "well, I took all of River's" throwaway.
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May 22, 2013 04:21
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Porkchop Express posted:Yeah, the Valeyard as an enemy would be pretty good, a lot better than trudging the master out again if you ask me. Unless they get Cumberbatch to play the Master. 
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May 22, 2013 04:31
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Royal W posted:Unless they get Cumberbatch to play the Master. SOLD
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May 22, 2013 04:32
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So any reason why series 2 seems to be currently out of print? Series one is as well, but that got re-released (and is only ~$20 on amazon), while series 2 hasn't been on there for nearly a year, except for non-amazon sellers.
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May 22, 2013 06:26
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What if that's not the Doctors actual grave and is instead the Valeyards grave. Cause that would be a instant get out of jail free card for the "Doctors" death. Remember the Doctor is known as the Beast as well ,but it's still the same person. IE everyone in the universe attacks him because he's the loving Valeyard and that makes perfect sense. Also, if that's the Doctors grave then he can see future inclininations but we only see 12 total. So there is some timey whimey poo poo the Valeyard is killed and the 13th Doctor steps out of the rift. This is going with the theory that the Valeyard isn't a "offshoot" and is just another regeneration that's not called the "Doctor" which makes perfect sense if Dr. Hurt isn't referred to or thought of as the Doctor, but instead something else but regenerates into a Doctor. So yeah, I say that's the Doctor's Valeyard incarnation's grave.
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May 22, 2013 07:44
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There's no "graves" for any incarnations though, because the entire body moves on. That blue light was The Doctor's thirteenth body.
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May 22, 2013 13:05
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Porkchop Express posted:Man they aren't gonna hold true to the 13 regeneration a thing, it was a throwaway line in the original story, if the ratings are still strong they will go past 13 for sure. It's specifically mentioned near the start of the McGann movie as well but after saying that they only get 13 regenerations his very next line is that The Master was never very good at following rules. That leaves it open to be interpeted as it being a rule or a guideline NOT a physical body regeneration limit or whatever. Though where that leaves the River "Here's all my lives, enjoy!" I dunno. Edit: VVV Bicyclops has another take on it, probably more accurate than mine! Fazana fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 14:39
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Fazana posted:It's specifically mentioned near the start of the McGann movie as well but after saying that they only get 13 regenerations his very next line is that The Master was never very good at following rules. I think the end of river is just a convenient way to ( hopefully) kill off a side character. Because if there are no more appearances by River, I for one would be totally ok with that.
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May 22, 2013 15:10
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Fazana posted:It's specifically mentioned near the start of the McGann movie as well but after saying that they only get 13 regenerations his very next line is that The Master was never very good at following rules. To be fair, what the Master means is "I used up all my thirteen lives and since then I've been stealing other people's bodies" as both the Anthony Ainley and Eric Robert incarnations are actually Traken/human people he hijacks, so for him it it may still be a physical body regeneration limit. He never actually regenerates after his thirteenth incarnation (until New Who); he just cheats.
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May 22, 2013 15:32
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The Great Intelligence also refers to the Valeyard as a name for the Doctor in the past tense. So, the grave on Trenzalore is likely post-Valeyard, whenever he existed (exists, will exist?). Also, considering that Trenzalore is one of the Doctor's more blood-soaked encounters, as opposed to his dealings with the Daleks, Cybermen, Timelords, etc, I think that it's more likely that Hurt's Doctor has something to do with what happened there. I don't think he is the Valeyard, especially since they made a point of introducing him as The Doctor, but I really think that them showing him staring out on Trenzalore while it is an active battlefield is significant. I think the rumor that he is "the Time War Doctor" is misleading. EDIT: Oh, and I guess Moffat did get confirmed for the 8th series at the official BBC page. So if Matt's already confirmed himself and Jenna Louise Coleman was confirmed a while back, it looks like next year is shaping up to be pretty good. I hope they'll add another companion, though. Clara on her own doesn't really add much.
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May 22, 2013 15:39
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Emerson Cod posted:Clara on her own doesn't really add much. I just think the writing hasn't given her much to do. Now that her mystery is solved I hope we see more of an "Oswin" side to her.
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May 22, 2013 15:57
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Emerson Cod posted:
Yeah, I vastly prefer two or three companions to just one. For one thing, it makes it easier for the Doctor to be Space Gandalf because if the show just has to have romantic tension, it can be between the companions. Plus, it just adds a little variety, and when one companion leaves there's a little more continuity of mood instead of creating grumpy, lonely Doctor every time somebody leaves the cast.
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May 22, 2013 17:01
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You know, I wish the tardis navigation system would go on the fritz again.
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May 22, 2013 18:39
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ProfessorLoomis posted:You know, I wish the tardis navigation system would go on the fritz again. It was never on the fritz. She always takes the Doctor where he needs to go. :moffat:
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May 22, 2013 19:20
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Bicyclops posted:To be fair, what the Master means is "I used up all my thirteen lives and since then I've been stealing other people's bodies" as both the Anthony Ainley and Eric Robert incarnations are actually Traken/human people he hijacks, so for him it it may still be a physical body regeneration limit. He never actually regenerates after his thirteenth incarnation (until New Who); he just cheats. Exactly. But, what we have from the Old series (including the TV Movie) indicates that the regeneration limit is imposed by the Time Lords. This would explain why the Time Lords were able to give the Master a new cycle of regenerations in exchange for his service in the Time War. The whole thing about the Master stealing bodies is that given all the horrible things the Master had done, would continue to do for as long as he could hold onto life, and how he had absolutely nothing to bargain with during the Old series, the Time Lords had every reason to not give him a damned thing regarding regenerations. But that changed when the Time War rolled along and they got desperate for experienced and - here's the kicker - ruthless soldiers.
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May 22, 2013 19:40
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Royal W posted:It was never on the fritz. She always takes the Doctor where he needs to go. :moffat: There was also the time when the Doctor said he purposedly left it on random.
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May 22, 2013 19:54
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I think 13 regenerations is all you got in the old Time Lord society because, seriously, why would you need more? You could live thousands, maybe millions, of years in just ONE regeneration, so unless you were an extremely unlucky son of a bitch, or actively looking for danger, those 13 basically made you immortal.
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May 22, 2013 19:55
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Has there been any established criteria as to which Doctor was around the longest? For example, Eleven has been around over 200 years now, since it was established he ran around for like 200 years before going to Lake Silencio the last time.
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May 22, 2013 20:04
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TL posted:Has there been any established criteria as to which Doctor was around the longest? For example, Eleven has been around over 200 years now, since it was established he ran around for like 200 years before going to Lake Silencio the last time. RTD retconned his age. The 7th Doctor was 953 years old in his first appearance, Ten claimed to be 906 in his final outing.
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May 22, 2013 20:07
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My guess is likely the Fourth Doctor was around the longest, both due to his onscreen time and the fact that I think his age shot up from 400 something, when it was last mentioned by the Third or Second Doctor I believe, to the 700s or so.
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May 22, 2013 20:09
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I keep seeing some posters mention John Hurt looking out on Trenzalore as an "active battlefield". Was there activity in the background of that shot that I just missed somehow?
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May 22, 2013 20:14
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Royal W posted:It was never on the fritz. She always takes the Doctor where he needs to go. :moffat: That's more of a Gaiman thing.
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May 22, 2013 20:17
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Emerson Cod posted:The Great Intelligence also refers to the Valeyard as a name for the Doctor in the past tense. So, the grave on Trenzalore is likely post-Valeyard, whenever he existed (exists, will exist?). I could have sworn, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the GI said "He will be known by other names...The Storm, The Beast, The Valeyard." Rhyno posted:RTD retconned his age. The 7th Doctor was 953 years old in his first appearance, Ten claimed to be 906 in his final outing. Moffat's been retconning it back though, with mentions of 900someodd years since he left Gallifrey.
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May 22, 2013 20:26
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Burkion posted:My guess is likely the Fourth Doctor was around the longest, both due to his onscreen time and the fact that I think his age shot up from 400 something, when it was last mentioned by the Third or Second Doctor I believe, to the 700s or so. I think the earliest mention of the Doctor's age was in "The Mind Robber", when Two says he's about 450. In "Robot" (the first Tom Baker serial), he enters his TARDIS, dematerialises and rematerialises and steps back out almost straight away, having apparently spent about a century or so travelling the cosmos. In "The Pyramids Of Mars" he mentions that he'll soon be middle-aged, but I can't remember how old he said he was at the time off the top of my head (maybe 750). I bet the real reason he never went home if he could help it is because he knew his old school bullies would give him a hard time about it. You know, "There's the Doctor; he's barely been around for a millennium and he's already gone through most of his regenerations! Hahahahaha!"
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May 22, 2013 20:32
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It 'helps' that for a loooooong stretch of time Four traveled around with another Time Lord and a robot, so we have no freaking idea how long that went on for.
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May 22, 2013 21:09
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I thought that Moffat said that the Doctor lies about his age because he's not bothering to keep track.
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May 22, 2013 21:14
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Pththya-lyi posted:I thought that Moffat said that the Doctor lies about his age because he's not bothering to keep track. I think this is the best way to deal with the idea of the Doctor's age, because so many different writers have said so many different things about how old he is at so many different points throughout the series that trying to make sense of it all will just make your head hurt. But for what it's worth, back when RTD was writing the show, I worked out that in my own personal calculation the Doctor must have traveled for 200 years with Romana because he's in his 700s when Romana first meets him, but then in Trial of a Timelord he's in his 900s, and as 5 he only ever traveled with human/human-lifespan companions sooo. But that's just my own take.
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May 22, 2013 21:21
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I don't remember where it was (although I think its an 8th Doctor audio drama), but I recall a line to the effect of "When you're bouncing around between planets and galaxies like I do, it becomes a rather pointless venture to try to track your subjective age." I think the context was a companion or some guest character asking the Doctor about his birthday.
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May 22, 2013 21:28
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