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Boonoo
Nov 4, 2009

ASHRAKAN!
Take your Thralls and dive back into the depths! Give us the meat and GO!


Grimey Drawer

Dr Subterfuge posted:

One place that simultaneously holds a depiction of Amok and El, complete with priestly language and sandwiches-style metal curtains, is weird.

Well, maybe not that weird? Certainly, this place was in use before Labras's climb up, and now, we see, after he came down. So calling this the First Temple makes some sense, then. This was the first place they put a shrine for El. Maybe the blue orb was scarier in the past? You wouldn't put those Presence-blocking curtains up unless you had a reason to.

I guess what's more weird is Amok being a known entity here. His city would have had to rise and fell before the shrine to El was put in this temple. Unless El's presence wasn't an off/on reveal and it appreciably grew as people devoted themselves to him? Amok not recognizing El's presence is still one of the most interesting things we learned from him.

Wasnít there a depiction of the Blue Orb in Amokís tomb? I thought that was where we first saw it.

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Dr Subterfuge
Aug 31, 2005


TK-42-1 posted:

Dude. The curtains were there because 7birb was actually there. The other shrines donít have the same poo poo and there isnít a big presence from them the same way. What if this is the actual El?

At the very least, it suggests a barrier erected to dampen an otherwise overwhelming presence.


Boonoo posted:

Wasn't there a depiction of the Blue Orb in Amok's tomb? I thought that was where we first saw it.

Pretty sure there was. Which says to me that the blue orb was known iconography of the creator that Amok says abandoned him.

E: Which does mean that the shrine could predate Labras's climb. But then, why install Presence protection for a god that you think has abandoned you?

E2: The Kadmonim belief that El is actually their trickster god aping the iconography of the creator is such a tantalizing explanation. It would be hilarious if we ever proved it was true, and I'd still be on board team El. Maybe even more on board.

Dr Subterfuge fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 03:07

Task Manager
Sep 5, 2008

A weird time in which we are alive. We can travel anywhere we want, even to other planets. And for what? To sit day after day, declining in morale and hope.


Blue Orb shrine is a shrine for the one being everyone at that time KNEW was a God, and not a "god". Hence being the only one with barriers. As Amok told us the Creator had abandoned them - but it was accepted He existed. This shrine likely depicted a place those who worshipped him could congregate - but I imagine it didn't get much use as most likely believed He had left. Hence all the other gods depicted here.

Dunno if this shrine is therefore for our El, or El-El (aka Creator) - who, if Baitel is to be believed is one in the same.

We could always sacrifice to it and see if our El pimp-smacks us.

Task Manager fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 03:26

Polgas
Sep 2, 2018


Blue orb is how everyone back then depicted GOD. Amos' temple was like that too and even a self proclaimed god Amok used similar imagery when depicting GOD.

Why is there no statue of the great queen for the bugs though. Were they formed after Amok's time? Is the great queen depicted as not a bug? Maybe this is only for the gods humans worshiped so none for the great queen who I think OC said actually denies divinity.

Also no fish type gods aside from the weird dolphin.

Polgas fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 03:40

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

Tanz mit laibach

Im der Pfunderdome!



Mr. Nemo posted:

Weird how Amok is here but not Amos

Dr Subterfuge posted:

It's interesting that Amok is in there but Amos is not. Amos seems comparably low key, though, so maybe it's just one of them claimed godhood and the other didn't.

My running theory is that Amok is first-generation nephilim (or possibly a son of Labaras and hence second-generation, if Labaras turns out to be the only line of nephilim). Amos is just too high-generation to matter (but still low enough generation to have wings).

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007



B

This is very neat. This whole place may be pre-abandonment by the creator. There are clearly loads of things in here that might have been worshipped by men at some point, but also the god-ball. I don't find it surprising that there are presence damping curtains bythe sphere. Even with only Amos to tend to the sphere in Efrat the presence was blinding once we got inside the magic walls. With no one here it seems to have degraded a bit but this thing was probably similarly overwhelming back in the day.

Waci
May 30, 2011

Let me axe you just one question.

Dr Subterfuge posted:

E2: The Kadmonim belief that El is actually their trickster god aping the iconography of the creator is such a tantalizing explanation. It would be hilarious if we ever proved it was true, and I'd still be on board team El. Maybe even more on board.

Same, that would rule and I'd be so on board with the boss having stolen the bigger boss' chair while it was left unattended.

Diogines
Dec 22, 2007


.

Diogines fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 13:22

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Random question

Does the blue orb actually fir through the door we came into the room?

Fully on board with team "Loot the giant blue orb and try (and fail) to hide it from Uriah".

We are going to be inside this tower until May at the very least, I cannot feel it.

Blasphemaster
Jul 10, 2008



So we've got a room full of punch cards for a primitive computer, a library, possibly some vacuum tubes. Room full of statues of what seems to be major powers and such from waaaay back when. Some chill as hell zones full of kick-rear end nature scenes.

Yup. Melachim/Nephilim Diplomacy Zone/Knowledge depository.

G.

Diogines
Dec 22, 2007


Mr. Nemo posted:

Random question

Does the blue orb actually fir through the door we came into the room?
It narrower than the door. Also, as a reminder, any representation of El in any format whatsoever is utterly forbidden. So, you can't use this thing at your temple back home.

Dr Subterfuge
Aug 31, 2005


Task Manager posted:

Blue Orb shrine is a shrine for the one being everyone at that time KNEW was a God, and not a "god". Hence being the only one with barriers. As Amok told us the Creator had abandoned them - but it was accepted He existed. This shrine likely depicted a place those who worshipped him could congregate - but I imagine it didn't get much use as most likely believed He had left. Hence all the other gods depicted here.

Dunno if this shrine is therefore for our El, or El-El (aka Creator) - who, if Baitel is to be believed is one in the same.

We could always sacrifice to it and see if our El pimp-smacks us.

It being for the Creator and therefore needing the barriers doesn't really follow unless they actually needed protection against something. Putting them up just in case he came back seems odd to me, especially when this place is thought of locally as the First Temple (to El).


Olothreutes posted:

This is very neat. This whole place may be pre-abandonment by the creator. There are clearly loads of things in here that might have been worshipped by men at some point, but also the god-ball. I don't find it surprising that there are presence damping curtains bythe sphere. Even with only Amos to tend to the sphere in Efrat the presence was blinding once we got inside the magic walls. With no one here it seems to have degraded a bit but this thing was probably similarly overwhelming back in the day.

Do we have any evidence of a Presence ever fading though? I don't think that's a thing.

The way I imagine it is, back in the day, when El focused attention on his one shrine, it was something like being in the physical presence of something like 7bird.

Dr Subterfuge fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 04:16

A Terrible Person
Jan 8, 2012

The Dance of Friendship


Dr Subterfuge posted:

Do we have any evidence of a Presence ever fading though? I don't think that's a thing.

The blood of Labaras grows weaker with every subsequent generation. Less blue stuff makes it up the mountain as time marches on.

*edit* I had an idea that the blue orb represented the Urth after the creation of angels but before they were set to work on creating plants and animals. Sort of a Gaia spirit representing the Second Day from the OP. Almost definitely wrong.

A Terrible Person fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 04:27

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012



Grimey Drawer

So it looks like worship of El may have taken place under another name back in the day, and he occupied a King/Father/Creator of the Gods kind of role rather than monotheistic creator of the world. His orb room is notably larger than all the others, is shielded from view by the curtains, and he gets two altars to everyone else's one. This explains what Amok says as well as his blue orb depictions, what Amos says, and what we've found here.

I wonder if the curtains are there to protect normalish folks from crazy sacrifices that bring El's attention and would kill them, like what happened in Gebeb. Be pretty annoying if you were, like, making a routine sacrifice a room over and you glance in and suddenly your eyes are aflame because bad timing.

I'm guessing when poo poo went bad (probably due to the HUNGER) the allowance of other gods was changed, as well as interaction with men. Most probably went along with it, but not everyone.

Diogines
Dec 22, 2007


SerSpook posted:

So it looks like worship of El may have taken place under another name back in the day, and he occupied a King/Father/Creator of the Gods kind of role rather than monotheistic creator of the world. His orb room is notably larger than all the others, is shielded from view by the curtains, and he gets two altars to everyone else's one. This explains what Amok says as well as his blue orb depictions, what Amos says, and what we've found here.
Two benches, the other shrines did not have any other furniture.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Diogines posted:

Two benches, the other shrines did not have any other furniture.

Okay well, he gets furniture. Still, suggestive that it was seen as more significant than the rest.

On that note, our Nephilim bros were reduced to a single room for all of them, feels bad man.

Polgas
Sep 2, 2018


Barriers would be a good sign of divinity but I doubt its exclusive for capital G god. From the experience with seven bird, curtains and such are just for the sake of their mortal followers that would die if their god actually appeared in divine glory like those people at the Gebek sacrifice that just died.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007



It's going to be real awkward if we ever get to that point and have to dispense justice from behind a mobile veil.

Also since there's already Amos and Amok we should clearly just change our name to Amog.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Polgas posted:

Barriers would be a good sign of divinity but I doubt its exclusive for capital G god. From the experience with seven bird, curtains and such are just for the sake of their mortal followers that would die if their god actually appeared in divine glory like those people at the Gebek sacrifice that just died.

The idea is that this is the only shrine with them, setting it further apart from the rest, alongsize size and presence of benches.

Besides, blue orb has a way more intense presence than 7 bird, we could gaze upon 7 bird and stuff. Blue orb almost destroyed us looking at it out of the corner of our eye or something.

Dr Subterfuge
Aug 31, 2005


Lead out in cuffs posted:

My running theory is that Amok is first-generation nephilim (or possibly a son of Labaras and hence second-generation, if Labaras turns out to be the only line of nephilim). Amos is just too high-generation to matter (but still low enough generation to have wings).

Amok has to predate Labras by a lot. He hosed off from the Kadmonim lands, built a city, and watched it crumble, all before knowing about the presence atop Mt. Har.

E: vv Good point vv

Dr Subterfuge fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 04:38

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007



Dr Subterfuge posted:

Amok has to predate Labras by a lot. He hosed off from the Kadmonim lands, built a city, and watched it crumble, all before knowing about the presence atop Mt. Har.

Nothing says he hosed off from here. He may have just come to visit in order to broker some peace deal or something. He may not have ever come up this way, he's just known to whoever was making busts to put in a room.

Diogines posted:


Several statues are very obviously Melachim. In one room you find a statue of a winged serpent...

Oh wait, is that 7-bird or HER?

Olothreutes fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 04:40

Numeron
Mar 23, 2012

A whole new world in
the palm of my hand.

Dr Subterfuge posted:

Amok has to predate Labras by a lot. He hosed off from the Kadmonim lands, built a city, and watched it crumble, all before knowing about the presence atop Mt. Har.

Amok is most definitely pre- or at least timeof- Labaras. When he woke up he didn't know anything about Mt Har, and wanted to know what the deal was with the El beacon on top.

Lanky Coconut Tree
Apr 7, 2011

An angry tree.

The angriest tree


I'm buying that theory about El being a pretender god who stepped up into the place of Blueorb more and more.

Labaras being the Kadmonim trickster god would be the icing on the cake.

A Terrible Person
Jan 8, 2012

The Dance of Friendship


SerSpook posted:

Okay well, he gets furniture. Still, suggestive that it was seen as more significant than the rest.

On that note, our Nephilim bros were reduced to a single room for all of them, feels bad man.

It's actually kind of significant if the offspring between the Divine and human were given a place elevated above animals yet below gods.

Consider that this structure may have been built by lowercase-g gods for gods and their mundane human servants. The various altars may have glowed with presence and the blue orb may have been a distraction without some sort of protection, if not deadly to the random servants wandering by. The benches might have been there so the various ophanim could go and sit in on group meetings as to what their next tasks were in refining creation.

Also, Baitel teaches that barkstone is holy and rare yet this entire tower is constructed of it despite being a quasi-pagan landmark. The outer portion of it is plastered with stone to hide its true nature. This may have directly resulted in Shienar trying to copy it and the church of El being somewhat responsible for a major tragedy when their tower collapsed.

I'm really curious what other folks' pet theories are since I can barely recall much of the fine details after... what? Six years of gameplay?

alpaca diseases
May 19, 2009



Diogines posted:

There are twenty six and they are packed in fairly tightly.

Do any of the busts in the Amok-room look, for lack of a better word, Zepathian?

Do any of the humanoid statues resemble traditional depictions of Damat?


What about this one?


also fyi guys the flame shrine might actually be a shrine to Ishat, not Nusku

Blasphemaster
Jul 10, 2008



Did we ever mention Labaras to Amok?

alpaca diseases
May 19, 2009



Also changing vote to F

A Terrible Person
Jan 8, 2012

The Dance of Friendship


Blasphemaster posted:

Did we ever mention Labaras to Amok?

Diogines posted:

"The priests say that El is the omnipotent, omniscient creator of the sea, sky, land and all things upon it, including mankind and the Melachim. He is said to dwell in Paradise atop Mount Har and passed laws to mankind through his prophet, Labaras. So the priests say. I have my doubts." To which Amok says "As well you should. And this irritation? Tell me of it."

That's it, he doesn't even acknowledge the name although there's an amusing back-and-forth about the term "El."

Everything Amok says is contained within pages 141 and 142 of Diog's posts, by the way.

Captainicus
Feb 22, 2013



A, I'm all good for the people who want to come back again, just think that we shouldn't vanish one night, we kind of stand out.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009



Lipstick Apathy

Pray to El, use the orb as a focus

Swedish Thaumocracy
Jul 11, 2006

Strength of >800 Men
Honor of 0


Grimey Drawer

Guys, Urccams Razor here. If the Strange Secluded Orb is in a room shielded by many curtains, it is obviously a room for the purveying of fine sandwiches, such as we saw on our trip to giant mosquito mountain. We know sandwiches need to be left alone, so let's just leave this alone.

Diogines: With our stupendous memory for faces and features, would you say one of the 26 busts looks about how we could have expected Amos to look like several thousand years ago? Or what Ishamal would look like if he shaved?

--

Anyway, this all but confirms my theory from earlier. This is the Urian version of the original Kaba; eg a gathering place of worship for ALL the gods the Kadmonin and other tribes may or may not have worshipped before the One True Faith of El swept in and replaced them all. This Arcology is the the capital of the Pre-Labarabas world.

--

Reach out and touch the Bust of Amok. Say Hello in Truespeech.

--

Voting A: Lets get some rest and speak with Uriah of what we found when he wakes up. Also Call Ish.

Victis
Mar 26, 2008


Swedish Thaumocracy posted:

Guys, Urccams Razor here. If the Strange Secluded Orb is in a room shielded by many curtains, it is obviously a room for the purveying of fine sandwiches, such as we saw on our trip to giant mosquito mountain. We know sandwiches need to be left alone, so let's just leave this alone.

Whatever it was, it isn't now. There's no 7-bird presence.

Swedish Thaumocracy posted:


Anyway, this all but confirms my theory from earlier. This is the Urian version of the original Kaba; eg a gathering place of worship for ALL the gods the Kadmonin and other tribes may or may not have worshipped before the One True Faith of El swept in and replaced them all. This Arcology is the the capital of the Pre-Labarabas world

Blue Orb was obviously more powerful than it's contemporaries back then though, the only one requiring shielding curtains.


Also, read through 455 pages of main posts over the past week and a half. I was aware of this thread when it first started but just happened back on it. Biggest highlights for me: Completely loving up outside of Acco, wasting Esau's arrow (over multiple votes) and breaking Chait's heart. Also the thread losing it's poo poo when Aaron died. Both of those made my breath catch a bit (Chait and Aaron, before the 'retcon') so praise to the writer.

Voting A, get Uriah some rest. Also don't smash anything in here.

Victis fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2019 around 06:39

Lord Zedd-Repulsa
Jul 21, 2007

Devour a good book.



Victis posted:

Whatever it was, it isn't now. There's no 7-bird presence.


Blue Orb was obviously more powerful than it's contemporaries back then though, the only one requiring shielding curtains.


Also, read through 455 pages of main posts over the past week and a half. I was aware of this thread when it first started but just happened back on it. Biggest highlights for me: Completely loving up outside of Acco, wasting Esau's arrow (over multiple votes) and breaking Chait's heart. Also the thread losing it's poo poo when Aaron died. Both of those made my breath catch a bit (Chait and Aaron, before the 'retcon') so praise to the writer.

Voting A, get Uriah some rest. Also don't smash anything in here.

This poster deserves a new avatar and gang tag for such an achievement.

Polgas
Sep 2, 2018


H

Copy some of those writings for Uriah to read when he wakes up.

Diogines
Dec 22, 2007




This screenshot has nothing whatsoever to do with Enkidel's adventure, except that people who skim usually stop when they see them. The next paragraph is random text from a random book from Project Gutenberg, don't read anything into it, we didn't even read it, it was random. The actual thing to read is after the fake voting options.

The Custodian without replying led his guest up one stair and then another. The two traversed a long passage until they came to an open door. Richart standing aside, bowed low, and entreated his lordship to enter. Count Herbert passed into a large room from which a doorway led into a smaller apartment which the young man saw was fitted as a bedroom. The rooms hung high over the Rhine, but the view of the river was impeded by the numerous heavy iron bars which formed a formidable lattice-work before the windows. The Count was about to thank his conductor for providing so sumptuously for him, but, turning, he was amazed to see Richart outside with breathless eagerness draw shut the strong door that led to the passage from which he had entered, and a moment later, Herbert heard the ominous sound of stout bolts being shot into their sockets. He stood for a moment gazing blankly now at the bolted door, now at the barred window, and then slowly there came to him the knowledge which would have enlightened a more suspicious man long beforeóthat he was a prisoner in the grim fortress of Gudenfels. Casting his mind backward over the events of the morning, he now saw a dozen sinister warnings that had heretofore escaped him. If a friendly invitation had been intended, what need of the numerous guard of armed men sent to escort him?

1. This is not an update, please don't pick a letter? The actual thing to read is after the voting options.
W. Not an update.
Y. This is not either.
Z. Nor is this one.
Za. Nor this!
Zb. And finally
Zc. Not this.

[...]

And the point of all that was, to highlight that we made an error and have to fix it. We initially left an important paragraph off the floor with the statues and altars. Double checking our notes, we realize there was an issue translating the Capybara speech of what they saw looking through the Quantum Singularity they use to spy on another universe and write about it here. So, finally....


One other of the smaller rooms may stand out to your eye, perhaps. One of the shrines, open to the hallway like the rest, is larger. Not great in size, but about twice as wide and a little deeper than the others. In this shrine are very two tall benches made of common stone next to each other, well, benches fit for a larger person anyway, but not out of proportion to much of the large furniture found in this place. You see an altar like in most of the other rooms, the altar itself is no different. The object behind it however just maaaybe catches your notice? It is a blue sphere a few feet across and looks like it is made of some kind of gemstone? It rests atop a stone pillar. You Presence Sense the blue sphere, it is stronger than mere gems might be but does not stand out as an item with a tremendous Presence, you've long since learned that the strength of a Presence may not translate necessarily to "power". It does not feel like one of the "blue stones". This room is more decorated than the others which were mostly plain and barren and you see writing of a script you recognize, even if you can't read, over the walls and ceiling, writting in the priestly language.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Changes I can notice:

Weaker presence, no curtains, no floating.

So, still a place important over the rest, but less mythical elements.

What the hell goes in behind the scenes that a mistake like this can happen.

Diogines
Dec 22, 2007


The Capybaras have to translate what they see through the quantum singularity to another reality and put that into English. Sometimes they are may do so imperfectly, and or there may have been interference from a resonance cascade scenario. They thank you for your understanding.

Swedish Thaumocracy
Jul 11, 2006

Strength of >800 Men
Honor of 0


Grimey Drawer

In honour of our current visit to the Carine Arcology and its Museum of Polytheism, I present the Updated Urian Big List of Powers.



Air: Amos, Jael, Tudiya, Enkidel, Smythos
Fire: Anaki, Rakshasha, Nusku
Water: Fishman, Zviv, Searchin, Siege Turtle, Eyescream, Doom, Ashera
Earth: Once-Consort, Kherper Queen, Kherper Queen of Queens
Nature: Gophericornian Jackalope
Astral: Watcher, Slightly Bigger Watcher, Angry Watcher, Blue Orb
Death: Judah
Blood: Bnaimokt Warrior, Oldemokt, Behemoth, Tent Demon, Fare
Snakes: Orm, HER
N/A: Azzazel, Amok
Amber: Bronze Giant, Silver Giant, Gold Giant, Gebek
Air/Blood Melachim Heresy: Jesbeam, Bareen before and after transformation, Faradnu.
Sandwiches: Sandwiches.
Zepath: Trio, Obelisk, Also Obelisk
Dragoom: None seen so far.


The threat rating is just based on my own opinion and is not always representative of the individuals Strength or SPIRIT-Spirit Reserve. Missing entities might be added in time.

occluded
Oct 31, 2012

Sandals: Become the means to create A JUST SOCIETY



Fun Shoe

Olothreutes posted:


Also since there's already Amos and Amok we should clearly just change our name to Amog.

I'd love to check the sixth floor E to see if any of the strange materials in the pots match the things that Ninhursag wanted us to get? Or if they otherwise seem interesting or tasty?

(Also if this thing turns out to be an ark spaceship I vote we annex it and move Kavodel here)

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Slaan
Mar 16, 2009

I GAIN POWER FROM EATING PEOPLE, JUST ASSUME I'M ALWAYS VOTING TO EAT PEOPLE



Nap Ghost

FIND HER BRING HER HOME

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