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Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands


Cornuto posted:

For example the abundance of roaming monsters that can party-wipe bands of mighty men seem to have been a pretty recent invention, and make zero sense given the story this far.

Why? The Balls have always been successful from the start primarily because they moved fast to avoid attracting bigger trouble and relied on Snarls to avoid any really dangerous threats, and the whole reason why there aren't a bunch of villages or lesser towns everywhere around Zepath is because they relied on a king-level protector like Tudiya to beat up anything REALLY bad and the safety of a settlement protected by anything weaker wasn't as guaranteed. Heck, Tudiya had his doubts about Kavodel's viability, and Kavodel only exists as a town because the people are confident that they have a protector capable of beating up anything and everything (because everyone assumes we're stronger than we are).

Edit: I mean, information overload is a valid complaint and there really is too much stuff to keep track of, but as officially certified King Sperg of this thread and someone who pays way too much attention to detail I can't say I've noticed many inconsistencies or signs of crap made up on the spot, beyond minor characters and some of the REALLY early stuff in Athar - presumably the Atharian stuff is because he was still hammering down some of the finer points of the world at that period.

Tomn fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2016 around 17:14

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Mr Apollo
Jan 1, 2013


Poldarn posted:

Does anyone have a link to the post where Judah gets conceived or mentioned after that?

Where the king makes his offer
Where Uriah wholeheartedly accepts
Where we travel back through those lands

Cornuto
Jun 26, 2012

For the pack!


TheCog posted:

The fact that the wilderness is super dangerous is something we've known since like our manhood trial. Remember eyesceam?

This wasn't news to me at least.

It is, but the way that the world is built is:
The wild is super dangerous.
Mighty men protect the cities from that danger by patrolling the wild. We saw this as a kid, we helped Aaron do it.
The problem is that mighty-men are in very short supply, and are growing weaker

At some point on our last adventure 'world is dangerous' went from "there's grove scorpions and poo poo out there that makes it impossible to settle" to being "wandering dooms-of-tanaach every mile or so."

How do the mighty-man patrols deal with the thing that amputated our mighty-man's arm, or the flying, immune to all damage, and kills mighty-men with the flick of a wing, donkey-mimic?

They don't because they didn't exist until recently. Monsters and demons that strong have always been stationary things like the Orm or conjured for city-sieges, or living in the taboo-as-gently caress ocean -- until suddenly they weren't.

Cornuto fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2016 around 17:26

Arkanomen
May 6, 2007

All he wants is a hug


quote:

Uriah's face becomes a large grin. Well no. Uriah has been grinning during most of this conversation, so it is more accurate to say his face remains a big grin. He says "Noble King. What you ask for is great, but I shall not shirk in my duty, I shall give it my all."

quote:

You remain in Jehoram for four days


Uriah may be a tool but what a tool he is!

FoxTerrier
Feb 15, 2012

Perfectly logical poster who uses the tools available to him to come to solid conclusions



I think we may not have a choice but to use soft power, because we have to remember that every rival mighty man we destroy it is another line of defense we eventually won't have against demons.

Holy crap, I wonder if that king that wild himself inside his palace is operating with a similar logic. I bet that canny fucker is also saving his well for ragnarok, goddamn

FoxTerrier fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2016 around 17:21

Task Manager
Sep 5, 2008

A weird time in which we are alive. We can travel anywhere we want, even to other planets. And for what? To sit day after day, declining in morale and hope.


hollylolly posted:

In the Donut people really have no concept of so-called "demon armies"....right? Zepath is in the part of the map where they draw monsters and say "here be dragyns" but a demon army attack in the Donut?

Things are not yet so dire, surely.

If memory recalls, most cities and people were shocked to see us with one minotaur, let alone them having had to deal with a demon army. Demon discussion is pretty much going to be non-existent in a Judah game. They are the boogeyman, or the monster in your closet, as far as most of the civilized world is concerned.

Granted, maybe that has changed sicne Tanaach, as our pilgrimage came before that and information from the interior was very scarce - they may have had an attack or two since.

I imagine the most we'll hear unless there was a major attack was reports of those "backwoods hicks being attacked by a few monsters". Only the siege warfare dude from Baitel took our reports of deadly invasions seriously - and he ded.

Task Manager fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2016 around 17:48

Poldarn
Feb 18, 2011



Arkanomen posted:

Enkidel was off getting trapped by a princess after getting krunk all night and then waking up next to a strange Melachim. It was right at the start of the Baitel trip where the king was like "Please knock up all of my daughters, mighty men." And Uriah was like "don't mind if I dooooooooo" and then had sex for easily a day and a half.


Awesome, thanks guys.

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

Alcohol...
It's the water of life.



Grimey Drawer

Cornuto posted:

It is, but the way that the world is built is:
The wild is super dangerous.
Mighty men protect the cities from that danger by patrolling the wild. We saw this as a kid, we helped Aaron do it.
The problem is that mighty-men are in very short supply, and are growing weaker

At some point on our last adventure 'world is dangerous' went from "there's grove scorpions and poo poo out there that makes it impossible to settle" to being "wandering dooms-of-tenaach every mile or so."

How do the mighty-man patrols deal with the thing that amputated our mighty-man's arm, or the flying, immune to all damage, and kills mighty-men with the flick of a wing, donkey-mimic?

They don't because they didn't exist until recently. Monsters and demons that strong have always been stationary things like the Orm or conjured for city-sieges, or living in the taboo-as-gently caress ocean -- until suddenly they weren't.

It seems to me that those extra powerful entities generally did not encroach on "owned" land. During our manhood trial we were in Zepa's lands for most of it and the worst we saw was that jackal beast. Up until we got over to the ocean and started loving around in it.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Cornuto posted:

How to the mighty-man patrols deal with the thing that amputated our mighty-man's arm, or the flying 'immune to all damage and kills mighty-men with the flick of wing' donkey-mimic?

They don't because they didn't exist until recently. Monsters and demons that strong have always been stationary things like the Orm or conjured for city-sieges, or living in the taboo-as-gently caress ocean -- until suddenly they weren't.

They don't? Because they don't go that far away from cities as we are now, and if they do they don't take 500 civilians with htem. And monsters don't go that close because it's owned land.

Grognan
Jan 23, 2007

Money And Power Through Homicide!



TheCog posted:

The fact that the wilderness is super dangerous is something we've known since like our manhood trial. Remember eyesceam?

This wasn't news to me at least.

This, so much this.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands


Cornuto posted:

It is, but the way that the world is built is:
The wild is super dangerous.
Mighty men protect the cities from that danger by patrolling the wild. We saw this as a kid, we helped Aaron do it.
The problem is that mighty-men are in very short supply, and are growing weaker

At some point on our last adventure 'world is dangerous' went from "there's grove scorpions and poo poo out there that makes it impossible to settle" to being "wandering dooms-of-tenaach every mile or so."

How to the mighty-man patrols deal with the thing that amputated our mighty-man's arm, or the flying 'immune to all damage and kills mighty-men with the flick of wing' donkey-mimic?

They don'tm because they didn't exist until recently. Monsters and demons that strong have always been stationary things like the Orm or conjured for city-sieges, or living in the taboo-as-gently caress ocean -- until suddenly they weren't.

That's...kind of a bold assertion that last bit, and I don't think a true one.

Mighty Men only patrol a relatively limited area around the city of Zepath - a city that is protected by a King who can wrestle down a dragon. Anything REALLY dangerous gets taken care of by the king, and anything smart enough to pull the whole donkey-mimic trick knows better than to gently caress with Tudiya and the divine assistance Zepath gets sometimes, at least when there's easier prey elsewhere. And remember - until we settled Kavodel, NOBODY wanted to spend their nights outside Zepath's walls, everyone wanted to live close enough that they could shelter within town at night. Remember too how Ishamal and Zeb often advised Tudiya not to leave the city for too long because it NEEDED his protection. King-level Bloodedness is the only reason why cities like Zepath, Tanaach and Ibleam can exist. And yeah, Mighty Men becoming weaker and being in less supply WAS something that caused Tudiya a pretty fair amount of concern, you'll recall.

On top of that, where we were trying to drag the Gebans was the deep wilds - a place where nobody patrolled on a regular basis and which was rarely visited anyways. This was the part of the map where people wrote down "Here be dragons" and never went out to unless they were adventuring or looking to die. Mighty Men handled the dangers of these areas by not being there, or by moving fast, and even when they moved fast there was a chance of getting bushwhacked.

So, no, claiming that monsters suddenly sprouted from the wild just doesn't fit the information we had before.

e;f,b

Edit: It's also worth pointing out that the stuff we faced WASN'T on the level of the Doom of Tanaach - more like that demon thing that Elihaba was wrestling with during the siege. Unquestionably dangerous, but a strong enough Mighty Men could trade blows with one for a good long while.

Tomn fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2016 around 17:39

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Diogines posted:

Crudus, I read everything you said and I can appreciate your frustration. The point of the game is for everyone to have fun, though our game also has rules and I am going to stick to them. I would hope that consistency is part of what made the game fun.

It certainly is, for me. Someone on IRC made derisive comments about detractors just wanting a masturbatory power fantasy, but something I've recognized, something which your GMing has helped me to articulate, is this: While I often, in playing some RPG or tabletop game, at heart just want a well-detailed power fantasy, it only feels valid to me if there is a set of consistent rules dictating how the world behaves. This provides a basis for saying "That was an awesome or powerful thing the character just did," as a mark of some surrogate action or accomplishment of my own. When a game is narratively driven, or simply run by an inconsistent GM, the success or failure of a risky venture, whether it's a long-term plan or a combat move, becomes dependent more on whether or not the GM thinks it's cool, or appropriate for the narrative. This means that to be successful, to engage in the power fantasy, what matters isn't a sense for how the world of my character works, but for what my GM happens to enjoy, or desire for the story being crafted. Instead of playing entirely within a toy world, engaging in a toy form of life (learning how the world operates, acquiring power to accomplish goals), I must assess my character's plans and actions against people around the table. To me, it seems like a character's actions ought to be assessed only against the character's world.



BoneMonkey posted:

Oh no, I love the Sim style game. Its awesome and unique! I just wish we didn't have to roguelike it. Especially when the sim is so deadly.

I can understand the concern. There's a certain ... lack of mystery, or of tension, that starts to come when a save and reload system is introduced, which I'm concerned by, but when there are terrors unknown and the supposedly rigid and impartial rules I've just been praising have let us succeed in some risky endeavors but not in others ... You start to wonder, perhaps angrily, perhaps despondently, if there's any way to learn the limits of what we can do that's safe but not boring. The practical reason I remember coming up is that holding multiple savestates of the world is beyond Diog's ability. Making multiple passes at the same, one, continually updating, changing world, that's fine. It's not much more than if one character continued to live. But keeping backups, being able to mentally shift gears to put oneself back in the headspace of "Okay, a month ago, this is what the world was like and what had happened," is a difficult task. The one time we had a do-over, the world regressed by ... an hour or so, of gametime? Something like that? Maybe less? And this was accomplished by spending about two or three days scouring all the notes which comprise Ur, making sure certain world details were changed, so that we, as before, could not bring out of character knowledge to bear in dealing with our character's world.

Ubern00b
Nov 4, 2009


I think a game like this is so interesting because of the rules and their rigidity, but that indeed the sim-setting would be more fun with reloading or continous character switching on death.

Personally I'd run a sim like this by outsourcing the capybara's to real-world randoms, e.g. the amount of dragons in Seir is the number of seats the Bulgarian communist party scores in Varna's municipal elections. They fly out to Zepath if the temperature in Houston is above 40*C at any point in August. Bnaimokt attacks are based on the price of wheat futures, etc..

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Vavrek posted:

Someone on IRC made derisive comments about detractors just wanting a masturbatory power fantasy...

I just want to single out that line and laugh at the irony, considering the support to play Judah, who is the Muscle Wizard Prodigy Bastard of a Muscle Wizard Prodigy.
I know you're not the one making that claim, but that is some serious Pot Calling the Kettle Black right there.

BoyG
Nov 24, 2004


Muldoon

How much of a blank slate is Judah going to be? I'd imagine by 16 he'll have many opinions the players may not agree with and a preformed personality which we won't be able to influence straight away. Diog, will we have a say in this by voting during whatever character creation you have planned?

I like the idea of travelling to Baitel to learn about warfare, construction and theology. Really anything we can learn which will allow us to positively impact the donut.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005




TheCog posted:

The fact that the wilderness is super dangerous is something we've known since like our manhood trial. Remember eyesceam?

This wasn't news to me at least.

Yes, and it came up relatively frequently since, whether in general discussion like what the average Urian believes about the mountains or the sea or specific information related to our adventures. Even if you only read Diog's posts you'd have to heavily skim those to miss most of this stuff, the dangers of the deep wilderness and the tactics we used to survive them (and why those tactics were virtually impossible to apply to a village-sized caravan on the way back) were outlined pretty clearly. Likewise the general rules and operating procedure of this CYOA.

Greggster
Aug 14, 2010



I can only imagine Uriah as James Brown now, what a sex machine he was!

Task Manager
Sep 5, 2008

A weird time in which we are alive. We can travel anywhere we want, even to other planets. And for what? To sit day after day, declining in morale and hope.


BoyG posted:

How much of a blank slate is Judah going to be? I'd imagine by 16 he'll have many opinions the players may not agree with and a preformed personality which we won't be able to influence straight away. Diog, will we have a say in this by voting during whatever character creation you have planned?

Diog mentioned that we'll be getting some flashbacks to fill in the blanks.

Diogines posted:

I hope the adventure ahead will be fun for everyone and I would like to think our game thus far has been a learning experience. I am optimistic for what is coming next! We will start with his manhood trial and then do some (short) flash backs to cover the details of his life up to that point.

If I was a betting man, I'd say we'll get a vote on the manhood trial, a vote on an event from his past. Vote on the manhood trial, a vote on an event from his past.

Whatever you guys do, do NOT throw a firecracker in a neighbors' garbage can during our youth. Or stick a fork in an electrical socket. It will not end well.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Task Manager posted:

Whatever you guys do, do NOT throw a firecracker in a neighbors' garbage can during our youth. Or stick a fork in an electrical socket. It will not end well.



Hannah

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



Art time!

https://picarto.tv/GunBoatDiplomat

UppaTree
May 3, 2013



McSpanky posted:

Yes, and it came up relatively frequently since, whether in general discussion like what the average Urian believes about the mountains or the sea or specific information related to our adventures. Even if you only read Diog's posts you'd have to heavily skim those to miss most of this stuff, the dangers of the deep wilderness and the tactics we used to survive them (and why those tactics were virtually impossible to apply to a village-sized caravan on the way back) were outlined pretty clearly. Likewise the general rules and operating procedure of this CYOA.

Pretty much. There is a REASON why Ur ends here and not several miles that'a'way. It's pretty much the same reason *everyone* said we couldn't hold Kavodel, only worse.

We know of only three other journeys off the edge of the world:

Tudiya's trip to Athar, where he brought loads of blooded men AND ISHAMAL. On the way back, we saw regenerating lizard-beast things that managed to inconvenience even that band, until Tudiya grabbed them and literally tore them apart.

Danal's return trip. one guy moving with great stealth. who RAN HIS rear end OFF from Shushem's abominations, and probably only made it due to our supernatural aid.

Tudiya's grandfather, who went to the Mountains of Fare to find his death, and apparently succeeded.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place




I can't figure out how to comment without creating an account there so I'll just say it here. Looking good.

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.







Sad times

Nyaa
Jan 7, 2010

Q.E.D.



"Why is everything in Hebreeeeeeew~!" -famous last words

He lives for answers, he dies to answers.

Arkanomen
May 6, 2007

All he wants is a hug


No matter what is said, Enkidel really tried hard to do his best.

I mean really, look at Ur. It's filled with injustice and slavery and savagery. Here comes this wild kid, freed from cannibals and what does he do?

Frees a childhood friend from slavery.
Loves his wife so hard he only takes her as a wife.
Adopts orphans and builds a city for the lost.
Provides a home for a sad beggar.
Treats his servants like people and frees them.
Raised a group of misfits into Heroes.
Marched into certain death to try and save hundreds of souls.
Helped dozens of elderly people visit the mountain of their God, even helping one walk up the path.
Fought into the depths of the earth to rescue children from monsters.
Raised a family of good people.
Gave a scorned businessman to freedom to become a revolutionary inventor.
Invented Coins and a pulley.
Built bridges and infrastructure for the people.

Basscop
Jun 4, 2010

Lightnin? HA! Thats a good 'un!
Now why dontcha
come o'er here and
GET

IN

MY

BELLY!!!


Arkanomen posted:

No matter what is said, Enkidel really tried hard to do his best.

I mean really, look at Ur. It's filled with injustice and slavery and savagery. Here comes this wild kid, freed from cannibals and what does he do?

Frees a childhood friend from slavery.
Loves his wife so hard he only takes her as a wife.
Adopts orphans and builds a city for the lost.
Provides a home for a sad beggar.
Treats his servants like people and frees them.
Raised a group of misfits into Heroes.
Marched into certain death to try and save hundreds of souls.
Helped dozens of elderly people visit the mountain of their God, even helping one walk up the path.
Fought into the depths of the earth to rescue children from monsters.
Raised a family of good people.
Gave a scorned businessman to freedom to become a revolutionary inventor.
Invented Coins and a pulley.
Built bridges and infrastructure for the people.

Truly the actions of an insane, power hungry, schizophrenic, troublemaking, idiot wannabe hero. We goons just seem to fail at everything.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

Arkanomen posted:

No matter what is said, Enkidel really tried hard to do his best.

I mean really, look at Ur. It's filled with injustice and slavery and savagery. Here comes this wild kid, freed from cannibals and what does he do?

Frees a childhood friend from slavery.
Loves his wife so hard he only takes her as a wife.
Adopts orphans and builds a city for the lost.
Provides a home for a sad beggar.
Treats his servants like people and frees them.
Raised a group of misfits into Heroes.
Marched into certain death to try and save hundreds of souls.
Helped dozens of elderly people visit the mountain of their God, even helping one walk up the path.
Fought into the depths of the earth to rescue children from monsters.
Raised a family of good people.
Gave a scorned businessman to freedom to become a revolutionary inventor.
Invented Coins and a pulley.
Built bridges and infrastructure for the people.

I guess Enkidel's secret stupidity behind all of his great deeds is realistic in a sense. History usually only highlights the good deeds of great individuals, and the times when they ate rocks are generally not discussed as much.

FoxTerrier
Feb 15, 2012

Perfectly logical poster who uses the tools available to him to come to solid conclusions



I have a hard time thinking of any time we've been actively malicious, really. Save breaking Lully's nose.

But frankly, I have zero regrets there.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


I'm gonna raise a drink in honour of Enkindel, he was a good guy.

Rahul
Dec 10, 2004



We did decide to randomly buy a terrified slave in Baitel and drag her half way across the known world pretty much just for kicks. But its okay because we said we were sorry and sent her home after decades of forced Labour

FoxTerrier
Feb 15, 2012

Perfectly logical poster who uses the tools available to him to come to solid conclusions



Rahul posted:

We did decide to randomly buy a terrified slave in Baitel and drag her half way across the known world pretty much just for kicks. But its okay because we said we were sorry and sent her home after decades of forced Labour

Yeah that's the only other 'bad' thing I could really think of. But even that wasn't so much malicious as being dumb-gently caress stupid and shocked someone didn't enjoy being dragged to the frontier away from their family to cook us treats.

We're not always the brightest bulbs.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



FoxTerrier posted:

Yeah that's the only other 'bad' thing I could really think of. But even that wasn't so much malicious as being dumb-gently caress stupid and shocked someone didn't enjoy being dragged to the frontier away from their family to cook us treats.

We're not always the brightest bulbs.

With the gifts the merchants gave us we were able to buy even more slaves to free, the suffering of slave is less important than the freedom of the many. QED it was the moral choice to do. Trust me, I checked with a manodile.

alpaca diseases
May 19, 2009



Oh god please shut the gently caress up about slavery

We get it

Arkanomen
May 6, 2007

All he wants is a hug


We can talk about the bad stuff too.

Smashed in a dudes face so hard he became a traveling merchant.
Tried to bail on saving a temple full of scared women and children.
Dragged a slave woman across the wilds to be our cook.
Was a terminally bad student. Seriously bad.
Left snarls poop in an old lady's bed.
Massacred a promote frog race for glory.
Consorted with witches behind our dads back.
Defied the edict of Smattas to Nearly his face.
Made snarls scared and sad a few times.
Knelt before another God.
Killed baby goblins in their crib.
Nearly tore our family apart re: Ruth
Alienated our brother by being #1
Ate rocks like a loon.

FoxTerrier
Feb 15, 2012

Perfectly logical poster who uses the tools available to him to come to solid conclusions



Arkanomen posted:

We can talk about the bad stuff too.

Smashed in a dudes face so hard he became a traveling merchant.
Tried to bail on saving a temple full of scared women and children.
Dragged a slave woman across the wilds to be our cook.
Was a terminally bad student. Seriously bad.
Left snarls poop in an old lady's bed.
Massacred a promote frog race for glory.
Consorted with witches behind our dads back.
Defied the edict of Smattas to Nearly his face.
Made snarls scared and sad a few times.
Knelt before another God.
Killed baby goblins in their crib.
Nearly tore our family apart re: Ruth
Alienated our brother by being #1
Ate rocks like a loon.

Excuse me, I believe you mean an old lady's ceiling.

Snuls 4 Lyfe


maxhush posted:

Oh god please shut the gently caress up about slavery

We get it

Cranky, eh? Sounds like someone needs a seaweed cake!

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012



quote:

Cranky, eh? Sounds like someone needs a seaweed cake!

That reminds me, we also basically never talked to our devoted mother, but we did help her get married to Tudiya. That balances, right?

rex monday
Jul 9, 2001

Pisk. Pisk. Piiiiiiisk!

FoxTerrier posted:


Cranky, eh? Sounds like someone needs a seaweed cake!

What the gently caress was going on with Jalitha?

She was totally a Melachim, right?

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh


Glad we don't have to be there when the survivors (if any?) get home and tell Jalitha what happened.

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

Alcohol...
It's the water of life.



Grimey Drawer

FoxTerrier posted:

Excuse me, I believe you mean an old lady's ceiling.

Snuls 4 Lyfe
We had nothing to do with that, that was all Snarls.

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Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

the_steve posted:

I just want to single out that line and laugh at the irony, considering the support to play Judah, who is the Muscle Wizard Prodigy Bastard of a Muscle Wizard Prodigy.
I know you're not the one making that claim, but that is some serious Pot Calling the Kettle Black right there.

It made a bit more sense in full, and was more directed at the idea of having a game wherein the player couldn't failI chopped it off at just the point to make it applicable to what I was talking about (how masturbatory power fantasies can be fun).

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