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I would have liked to ask more questions to clear things up, but well, it looks like we'll have to work with what we have. Long-range flaming arrows aren't an option. There's not enough exposed stuff that's easily flammable, and even if we ignite something we'd only get like one or two piles of stuff before being forced off. Charging in with our Balls could potentially cause a lot of havoc. If we stay as quiet and stealthy as possible until the last minute when we smash into their ammo supplies, we could break a few of the pots open, set the whole thing on fire, toss a few torches in the direction of the trebuchets and ammo piles and bug out. This would be EXTREMELY risky, though. Alternatively, we try to snipe with regular arrows but go for maximum effect. Watch the trebuchets, and wait until they've ignited the logs on the slings. Then, at that critical moment, shoot the rope holding up the sling - this will drop the flaming log to the ground, causing havoc and potentially setting the whole drat thing alight. Best part is, if we do it right they won't even know what caused it, allowing us to try and do the same to more trebuchets until they catch on. The question is feasibility - how confident do we feel of hitting the ropes, and of severing them with our shot? Ultimately, there is one real question to ask: How badly do we want Ibleam to win, and how much are we willing to risk to see it happen?
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Aug 19, 2014 06:12
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Looking it up, trebuchet range seems to be well under 3/4 of a mile, so the city itself should stay out of range considering that's how far it is from the city. Unless they are Mighty Trebuchet's (entirely possible). The defenders might also be out of that range, I don't know? I think the demons are what they plan to employ here. A because gently caress this noise. We've seen what we need to see.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:13
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I'm not sure if Zepath reinforcements are even coming. I mean, unless Gareb is hella-persuading, or Tudiya thinks that we're (Enkidel and Danal) in serious inescapable danger, he's going to let Ibleam burn, since it's El's will. At best, he'd be willing to take in refugees and set them up as slaves and servants. Hopefully, we manage another Power Word El that DOESN'T gently caress our poo poo seven ways to Sunday, and maybe get a meeting with Dream Jorah or Dream Azz after so many years.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:14
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Whoa now, A voters, are you saying we should just abandon our new Ball to the battle?
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Aug 19, 2014 06:17
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Going to sleep. Final statement. As said in this map:  Nothing in the map is drawn to scale. It is intended to show the rough positions of things to each other.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:21
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If the bridges are in range, the defenders lined up along the bridges are in range. Sure, the city will be out of range - but the King of Ibleam doesn't know THAT, does he? And sure, he could sit there waiting for the Norcs to run out of ammo, but that will play merry hell on morale and cause untold casualties - how likely is it that a proud man of Ur is going to sit there quietly getting hit from range? No, I think I can tell you what's going to happen if we do nothing - the King of Ibleam is going to get a few flaming logs to the army before he decides "gently caress this poo poo!" and fords the river to get at the Norcs. That's when they'll attack, letting the demons out for extra shock, and in the middle of all this Mr. Darkness is going to come out at the worst time and pop the King's rear end, demoralizing the defenders and causing a mass rout. Now this all looks bad, but I want you all to notice something. Despite having a massive numerical advantage, despite having Blighty Men, and despite having a magical Darkness Lord? The demon army is still using extremely cautious tactics to ensure maximum advantage for their side. Now, they COULD just be a careful lot, but I don't think this battle is as lopsided as we think it is. If we can make some kind of difference, Ibleam could still win this. Sabotaging the trebuchets is our most direct option, but there is another one - RUN straight to the King, swim across the river, and convince him to pull back to the city and come out to attack again when they're trying to cross the river or when day has come. If we can convince him to do that, the demon trebuchet advantage won't come into play, and they'll be forced to operate at a disadvantage themselves. Tomn fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 06:22
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Final word of the night. In response to various IRC questions about the position of the of the trebuchets and the city. You have seen a trebuchet in action for the first time just now. You have no idea if the city is in range of not. Your knowledge about real world trebuchets may or may not apply here.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:29
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Diogines posted:Final word of the night. In response to various IRC questions about the position of the of the trebuchets and the city. Stop invalidating my trebuchet lore. I must metagame!
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Aug 19, 2014 06:35
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Unless, of course, the trebuchets can move forward and hit the city from this side of the river, sending flaming rocks and logs into all that dry, densely packed housing after the king has been told by us to ignore them. The king is almost certainly going to try a berserker charge, if there's anything that the blooded kings have, it's pride. And an army just marched up, refused his divine command to send a champion, and is now playing silly tactical games with him. Right now he's going to be apoplectic with rage at the insolence of these intruders, and the best way to punish them is to swim across the river and tear them limb from limb.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:37
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Aug 19, 2014 06:40
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Tomn posted:
Yes. I take this as a very good sign. I am more optimistic than I was. Though it's also troubling. They don't seem to be following the rules and have planned for a long time with that in mind. Any ideas on how we can break the rules they are now following? Survivable commando actions would be right up there with the unexpected for them. We can't really get help from across the river though. If Tudiya comes he will probably be on our side of the river, but even if he does that is some days off. They must have a plan for how they eventually cross the river. If we can figure that out sabotaging it would also be good. Might just be that they force Ibleam to retreat so they can cross without being attacked? Sogol fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 06:42
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If Ibleam doesn't retreat and maneuver, this is over. Those engines don't have the range to attack the city without first crossing the river, which would be the only realistic time to counter-attack. If Ibleam falls back, and if the monsters attempt to cross with the engines, and if Ibleam attacks at that time, we stand a chance of getting the successful hit and run you all have been salivating over. The more likely flow of events will be Ibleam falls back, the Norcs order their irregulars to assault and sit back with their leader and their engines in reserve. A minotaur kills a man 1v1, no contest. 13,000 squishes 5,000 like a grape. The presence of 1 superman isn't going to stop this city from burning tonight. I'd strongly recommend, yet again, sending the men and the dog home right the gently caress now. Maybe try some Snarls-esque telepathy to tell Nahari to get the gently caress out too, but he was probably dead the moment we sent him out with no instructions on how to rejoin us. F - Send the men and the dog home. Think really hard at Nahari that he should get out too, and meet the rest of the men at a landmark a day or two closer to Zepath. Stay very hidden and observe everything.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:55
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Hmm. Well, let's think about this. What are the demon advantages, and how can we negate them? Trebuchets: Dangerous and frightening. Bad for morale. However, their primary use is going to be goading the King of Ibleam into crossing the river, I think. As such, sabotaging the trebuchets is only really going to be decisive if we can get all or most of them - otherwise there's still going to be enough damage being done to push King Azah into fording the river. River: This is a big one. With the bridges out, the King of Ibleam and his troops are going to be forced to ford the river to do battle, which they most likely will do. They will be very vulnerable during and after the crossing - if the Norcs charge as they're midway across the river, they'll be able to fight as a block while the Ibleamites are straggling up, tired, wet and disorganized. Further, it's possible those demons are amphibious - if they're released and allowed to make their way into the river, they could cause a lot of havoc amongst the crossers. How to counter? loving with the demons might work - a premature release could prevent them from doing anything in the river, or from contributing to the battle in general. However, a very useful and important point here seems to be this: The Norcs are organized and disciplined. This suggest a hierarchy - a chain of command. It is likely then that they have someone to give the order to charge. If we can identify the guy giving the orders and give him an arrow to the face before he can give the orders, we could throw the army into temporary confusion and paralysis - long enough perhaps for the Ibleamites to form up a beachhead. Demons: Even if the demons aren't water-going, they're still nasty shock troops. Released into the Ibleamite midst during the thick of the fighting, they can cause a great deal of damage before they're put down. Not sure how much we can do about them besides engineering an early release, though. Blighty Men: Counterparts to Ibleam's Mighty Men. If anywhere near as effective, they could gently caress poo poo up bad. Counter: Shoot them in the head when they aren't looking, maybe? Boss Shadow: Who the gently caress knows, really, but wouldn't it have been nice to face him during daytime?
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Aug 19, 2014 06:55
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Question: Who among our Balls would have the best memory? (Enkidel excluded) Regardless of what we do, someone needs to remember what went down, so they can tell Zeb and Tudiya (in that order.)
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Aug 19, 2014 06:56
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A reminder, by the way!Diogines posted:Wide enough, near Ibleam, that crossing it away from one of the wooden bridges would be problematic for the men of Ibleam or the invaders, if a force waited for them on the other side. It is not IMPOSSIBLE to cross the river without a bridge. It is simply DANGEROUS to do so while there's troops on the other side waiting to gently caress you up - but if you feel like you don't have a choice (say, because you're getting pounded by flaming trebuchets), you can still try it anyways.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:58
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Hmm. Hmmmmm. dyzzy posted:F. I have a plan. Good. A plan would be a good idea, because this situation is... not going according to the Mighty Man Script, where monsters stupidly show up, dual a king of greatly superior power, lose and then panic and flee. If you have a plan, this would be an excellent time to share it with! Please do so! Voting this, because the only other plan I like is "wait and see," and that'll probably just get people killed. Diog, stop making things more and more dire. You can only go so far.
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Aug 19, 2014 07:05
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Maybe they plan on flinging the chained demons across the river with the trebuchets, and burnt the bridges so the things they chained couldn't easily turn back and attack them?
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Aug 19, 2014 07:06
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Tomn posted:Now this all looks bad, but I want you all to notice something. This is not a good thing. This is a very, very bad thing. This is military professionalism in action, taking every advantage and applying it to the maximum. It speaks to intelligence, prudence, and worst of all, patience.
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Aug 19, 2014 07:11
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Diog:are the demons actually demons aside from how they look? Can we or Snarls feel them for being demons the same way the ziv or demon nest under Zepath felt?
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Aug 19, 2014 07:14
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E. Wait and respect the kings lead. Not only because this isn't our city, but because we're better off striking at the most unexpected time. Also we didn't receive the message to come here only to go home when things start getting real. Numeron fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 07:17
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Tomn posted:I would have liked to ask more questions to clear things up No kidding.  ... Maybe this is all part of some giant, millenia-spanning plan. Demons were the big poo poo, Labaras came along, suddenly humans were the big poo poo. Demons went, hm, this new blood sucks, but maybe we can wait it out. They pull back, they let people breed, for a long time, let the BLOOD mix with blood, thin out, weaken. Every now and again they send out raiding parties, to test the cities, see how much the men of Ur have weakened. Finally they've gotten the idea that we may be weak enough, and so they're starting to up the game again, sending out real forces, protecting their champions from compulsion, etc. If this goes well, it's their sign that humans can no longer defend themselves effectively, in general. It's the start of a whole new war, this fight right here is the start of the coming storm. Of course, maybe there's a counter play involved. Maybe some higher ups, Ishamal and those he works for, have been trying to out-maneuver the demons. Let the men of Ur, generally, spread out, do their thing, breed, dilute their strength. Meanwhile we've got covert agents ensuring things don't get too bad, too out of place, keeping an eye on poo poo. Small cells of BLOOD are kept potent, those possessed of such strength learn to hide their power, even going so far as to lack the characteristic height and musculature. Waiting for the demons to show their hand, so that they can show theirs. Maybe why it bugs them so much when somebody like us pops up, a visible, massive, blooded strength that isn't under their control. *shrug* Anyway. No vote yet. We'd help best by taking out the trebuchets or, I imagine, disrupting their leader. Maybe despoiling their altars or whatever is letting them, presumably, claim the land around them and resist El's compulsion. Hm. Maybe we could set up a counter offer. Anything we could sacrifice really loving hard, so as to set up a counter-claim on this area and allow El's influence to exert once more? Maybe we could sneak a sacrifice into the middle of their camp or something. Alright, here we go. We sneak in as close as we can, our Balls and we. Choosing our moment, we charge into the middle of the foe, laying waste as best we can. One of us, ourself perhaps, or Jobe, takes the highest profile enemy we can slaughter, a Norc or maybe even a 'Demon', and sacrifices it on a hastily erected altar in the middle of their camp, atop a pile of minotaur bodies, while our Balls surround us/Jobe, valiantly sacrificing themselves to stave off the horde of monsters trying to interrupt us. They thin, they fall, they die, but they do not waver. Finally, Danal himself keels over, the last to stand, shielding us with his own body, but it was enough! The ritual is complete, we call out to El as flames enfulf the body of our sacrificial lamb! And then we get eaten or something.
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Aug 19, 2014 07:19
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E Wait a few more moments. See what the men of Ibleam do next. Honestly, I think Ibleam is lost. They got out maneuvered. We should see what they do next so we can warn Zepath.
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Aug 19, 2014 07:33
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G.- Eat the Olives. How many? ALL OF THE OLIVES. EAT ALL OF THE OLIVES. AND THE DATES AND THE TREES AND OUR BALLS (sans snarls and Paebro who can join us in the feast) AND THE MINOTAURS AND THE NORCS AND THE DEMONS AND THE DARKNESS AND THE IBLEAM AND THE
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Aug 19, 2014 07:59
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D I just can't help myself. And it won't win anyway.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:00
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ColonelMuttonchops posted:Hmm. This I hadn't counted on them blowing the bridges themselves, no, but I set up here expecting they'd bring the siege engines up to the river, so I could gently caress their poo poo up. Let's do this! Give the boys time to put a bridge out or sommat.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:37
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D - Embrace Asherah or this is the end.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:52
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Sneak forward alone. Light the machines on fire and flee before the enemy notices us. This is a sneaking mission Enkidel! All materials are procure on site.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:55
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I'm just putting it out there, maybe we misunderstood a little bit? The king IS going to fight a champion. The champion is in the water. Oh God. The flaming lip fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 08:56
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paragon1 posted:Sneak forward alone. Light the machines on fire and flee before the enemy notices us. This could work. If we had a cardboard box.
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Aug 19, 2014 09:10
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G- If they wish to make this a fight of distance and ignore the rules of men. Let us attempt a boon for our shooting and do the same to them. Invite your men to pray. Lock eyes on that tent. Gaze past it at your enemy. Know that many will die this day if he is not stopped. Recall the Roc you slew with your errant shot. Remember the day thunder was beat into your chest. Think onto Smythos's sword of law that would crack the world and slays the wicked. The distance is irrelevant it will get there. The power will raze. The shot will be true. Bid of your bow not to break. Ask the string not to snap. Care not for the burning of your soul for you are righteous. Raise your bolt to the mountain and the sky.  Cast off this instrument in his name. EEEEEELLLLL!
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Aug 19, 2014 09:18
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GloriousDemon posted:G- If they wish to make this a fight of distance and ignore the rules of men. Let us attempt a boon for our shooting and do the same to them. Your name is glorious demon, jesus.
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Aug 19, 2014 09:25
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Tsyni posted:Your name is glorious demon, jesus. Hah, I'm just named after a Tekken move dude. I was an original Asherah follower till we went sailing to his mouth. But the more I look at my post the further it looks like that crappy footprints motivational plaque. Vote stands cause we don't have a lot of good options and we got ??? meter to burn. I couldn't think of a better way to force a god shot then make it look little like a prayer.
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Aug 19, 2014 09:51
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Ibleamites are going to do the only thing they know how to do. Charge. Across the river, in the darkness, into a waiting army. They'll be butchered. That Lord of Shadows dude is probably lurking right now, unseen. We should have taken that shot and exposed his pansy rear end to the bright daylight. No matter. We can sneak down and free the demons before the Norcs load the demons into the trebuchets and send them deepstriking.  Sneak down, open fire with arrows, free the demons, then leg it!
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Aug 19, 2014 10:41
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Shooting demons with a trebuchet doesn't really make sense when they can be buffed-up on blood magic steroids and unleashed on the main levy army. The Zviv was going to slaughter our Balls wholesale, and they were experienced monster hunters focusing on one target. What could a whole pack of demons supported by elite infantry do to a bunch of panicking butchers and bakers? Of course we are dealing with demon stuff of unknown power. For all we know the next thing they do is build a bonfire, sacrifice ten thousand minotaurs on it, and summon a volcano inside Ibleam. Skellybones fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 11:18
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Hit the flammables, make sure we get close enough for a flaming arrow to be effective for this. While they're running around putting the fire out we start freeing demons.
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Aug 19, 2014 11:39
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I guaran-loving-tee you they aren't going to launch the demons with a trebuchet, they're going to keep firing the trebuchets normally into the army until the Ibleamites charge. Then they'll use the demons. It'll be interesting to see if the demons will actually attack the norc army at all.
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Aug 19, 2014 12:02
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Could we actually Vayahi Or the flammables instead of shooting them? I wonder if this would be too far of a distance. I have a feeling that those demon creatures are aquatic serpents that they'll release into the water once the King tries to cross.
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Aug 19, 2014 12:12
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GloriousDemon posted:G- If they wish to make this a fight of distance and ignore the rules of men. Let us attempt a boon for our shooting and do the same to them. This vote is so loving metal.
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Aug 19, 2014 12:14
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This is a bad situation. If the king does the king thing and has everyone charge through the river, there is no way they are going to survive. I think their safest bet is for their army to fall back to the city for now and draw the enemy army to the river. Then there will be more time to strategize and maneuver and who knows if their trebuchets will even be able to reach the city from this side? If we're suggesting daredevil plans, I vote to Write a hasty note indicating the best strategy, tie it to an arrow, and arrow time it straight to the ground before the kings feet. Use our rhetoric skills to make it as convincing as symbol language can convey. Inside let us write where we are hiding, that we intend to sneak around and sabotage their siege engines, but to buy time for now and fall back to the city walls, forcing them to move forward. We might also include something about how they are hiding their king analogue and we suspect he is stronger the darker the night. If their army is repositioning, we'll probably have a better chance to do whatever it is we want to do as they spread out/reposition. Screwing them up and slowing them down while they are fording the river might give the king the window he needs for a more advantageous charge. Crudus fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 13:29
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Man....there are pretty much no good options and only slightly suicidal options left. At least we aren't on the wrong side of the river about to get logged/demoned to death (sorry Nahari). No matter what we decide on, we need to disrupt the Army of Darkness' flow. If left as is they're going to launch lumber leisurely at the lines ahead until the men charge, and then Darkenss likely will gently caress 'em up. As much as it is going to suck for us, we need to antagonize the army. Try to give the men of Ibleam a chance to get across the river unhindered. Diog, do we sense a demonic force working its way through the minotaur army like at the 2nd battle of Zepath? How close is the minotaur army to the fields south of the river? Are those fields likely highly flammable? If they aren't demonically compelled, and the Norcs are all lined up in front of the trebuchets, if we can get the mancows to storm off all of a sudden it is 5000 vs. the Norcs and Darkness. F. Have Enkidel sneak due east of the demons and get within a good arrow shot range (reliably hit with normal arrows). Meanwhile, have the Balls try to get around behind the minotaurs far enough away that they should be able to outrun a charging minotaur army (our monster hunting of mancows should allow us to gauge that distance). Have our Balls make as loud of a racket as they can, saying derogatory things about the minotaurs mothers. Try to get some or all of them to break lines and charge - as soon as they do that unleash with the arrows and try to free up the demons.Balls and Enkidel all run like hell away from whatever starts after them. Hopefully that's enough of a distraction that the men of Ibleam ford the river and get to the other side. If they don't, and the army recovers from our diversion, they're screwed. Oh also if that demonic energy is surging through the minotaurs I'll change my vote - hopefully they are normal dumb mancows. Task Manager fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 13:40
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