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Voting for whatever comes closest to give him the finger and leave edit: oh el, top of the page, one moment  Link to VotesParadise Lost Table of Contents | Wiki | Judah Thread | Recap | The Museum of Enkidel | World Map | Come join us in IRC! #madgod on irc.synirc.net Mibbit IRC Link - Just click to join us! We have a discord too, somewhere!
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Feb 19, 2019 21:28
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L
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Feb 19, 2019 21:32
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L.
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Feb 19, 2019 21:32
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A
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Feb 19, 2019 21:33
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A
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Feb 19, 2019 21:50
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Man a lot of these votes could end really badly for us, huh. Good thing team boring is out to vote for A or L and keep us safe. J
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Feb 19, 2019 21:56
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If I can no longer tell cities of the threat to come, will the House of El send a more appropriate messenger to the border cities at risk? Likewise, if I can no longer share what I know in hope of receiving aid, do you have suggestions for how I might find tools to aid in my cities fight against the demons?
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Feb 19, 2019 22:15
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A
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Feb 19, 2019 22:22
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+1 in support of Zodiacs questions.
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Feb 19, 2019 22:26
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Just to be clear. You're telling me I'm forbidden from telling men what happened to other men, but those same men aren't forbidden from telling other men what happened to men? I'm forbidden from talking about things I see? Or am I forbidden from telling men to do something about the things that men saw happen to other men? Because it sounds like you just don't want men to know what happens to other men. Is it my message or the truth that is the problem?
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Feb 19, 2019 22:30
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Outrail posted:Just to be clear. You're telling me I'm forbidden from telling men what happened to other men, but those same men aren't forbidden from telling other men what happened to men? I'm forbidden from talking about things I see? Or am I forbidden from telling men to do something about the things that men saw happen to other men? Because it sounds like you just don't want men to know what happens to other men. Is it my message or the truth that is the problem?
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Feb 19, 2019 22:31
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A
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Feb 19, 2019 22:31
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The problem is that people think we are telling them the will of El. That's the issue all of this springs from. Even if we did not mean to, its happened, and that's an issue. I don't think they have an objection with warning people, just that us doing it has caused problems, so we are being ordered to stop doing it. If we found a more suitable person to warn people, we could go hog wild. edit - reminder, this is what the priest actually said: Diogines posted:The kindly old priest says "Many reasons. They are numerous. But among them, one of them, is this. Men of great power are rare. You stand in an uncommon and privilege position, both of you, you Enkidel especially more than most because of your odd appearance. Other men, seeing great power become awed by it and being awed mistake this great power for our Creator. Even if you did not intend such and even if many did not believe you, it is not fitting Enkidel that you speak words to cause men to think you speak with His voice, which you have done. Men of great power must take the greatest of care when speaking with others lest their power be mistaken for the Divine Voice and if the message is such that such confusion is inevitable, then they should not speak the message at all. You will not spread this message further in Carine and you will not spread it among the cities you pass on your return. From what you describe your people have faced great struggles, struggles enough for one people I would expect, let the men of Zepath worry for Zepath and not trouble themselves with foreign cities." The bolded parts are the actual issues at hand. The priest has not commented on whether the message was good or bad, or whether we were right or wrong to spread warnings. Nobody is telling folks that we just need to let the donut burn, or can't warn people ever. The House of El is telling us that we are not suitable messengers, and that we can't continue doing what we were doing. Zodiac5000 fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 22:33
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If it means anything when I suggested L I meant it sorta like this:Diogines posted:You ask the priest if you should make an offering. The kindly old man says "If you wish to make thanksgiving for the gift of another day, your health, the innumerable blessings we receive daily and to thank that your journey has been successful thus far? If you would make an offering for those reasons Zepathans, surely." and not like this: quote:The old priest then says "Things won through great hardship and adversity and trials, things which are truly meaningful and struggled for are fine offerings and surely the flesh of the detestable and profane most of all. And lesser offerings, often, to remind you that all you possess He made and you are greatful, which you have certainly never neglected. No offering will correct what you have done and if that is your concern, instead, act wiser and do not compound the error. You have fought courageously for God and prevailed in many great trials, but be mindful that hand in hand with such deedz is the constant risk that your words are mistaken for the Divine Will, ensure such does not occur." not to try to correct it but to be like "d'oh remember El & try to be more mindful in the future"
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Feb 19, 2019 22:47
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And a reminder that the High Priest isn’t racist. It’s a matter of Enkidel being an aberration and oddity to many people. Something different that is walking around possibly telling the word of god. He says Uriah is a more appropriate messenger (not a good one. just somewhat more appropriate) because of his orthodoxy in appearance. A random schmoe would be even more appropriate which honestly is probably why the melachim are always wearing burlap sacks and not appearing in 10 ft tall shining bronze ebony giants. Unless they’re Smattas being a dick at our trial.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:12
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add to my A, make an offering for the usual reasons
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Feb 19, 2019 23:13
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I like that Azz showed up in full regalia almost immediately. He correctly figured out we didn't give a poo poo that he was a melachim beyond his ability to help or answer questions, so he didn' bother with the time-wasting hiding. "This kid would't worship me if I appeared as a giant pillar of gold, I'm not going to waste time with this burlap sack nonsense."
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Feb 19, 2019 23:15
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A I support Zodiac's questions also.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:18
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TheCog posted:The problem is the messenger. I know. I'm just trying to muddy the waters and maybe make the priest doubt what he's saying. Why should we be the only ones in the unsure box of confusion. Also, there's always a chance we could find another high priest who has a different outlook, or hears our words differently and we can silver tounge him into thinking it's his idea to tell us we are doing the right thing, and that we have a duty to spread the word. I honestly don't see anything wrong with that.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:18
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A + ask Zodiac's questions Want to get back to exploring. Checking out the giant tower would be cool, I'm really curious if it really is unstable or if it's actually the home of a powerful being and the instability is misdirection by the homeowner. Ala Amo's tree singing preserve.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:20
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TK-42-1 posted:And a reminder that the High Priest isn’t racist. It’s a matter of Enkidel being an aberration and oddity to many people. Something different that is walking around possibly telling the word of god. He says Uriah is a more appropriate messenger (not a good one. just somewhat more appropriate) because of his orthodoxy in appearance. A random schmoe would be even more appropriate which honestly is probably why the melachim are always wearing burlap sacks and not appearing in 10 ft tall shining bronze ebony giants. Unless they’re Smattas being a dick at our trial. But noone will listen to a shmoe in a sack. You need to appear to have authority to have authority. Basically he's saying noone should be spreading the word. Great example of the perfect being the enemy of the good.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:21
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Outrail posted:I know. I'm just trying to muddy the waters and maybe make the priest doubt what he's saying. Why should we be the only ones in the unsure box of confusion. Well, part of the problem was that nobody knew your actual goal was to use Enkidel's power of persuasion to find cracks in the priests statements/intent. I would suggest saying/voting for that, because I'm way more sympathetic to that goal than I am to really leading and accusatory questions that seem like they would just piss people off and not accomplish anything. Outrail posted:But noone will listen to a shmoe in a sack. You need to appear to have authority to have authority. Basically he's saying noone should be spreading the word. Great example of the perfect being the enemy of the good. We can send somebody like Paebel, or some of the balls? They have authority and status, but nobody would confuse them for messengers of the divine (I hope).
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Feb 19, 2019 23:35
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Zodiac5000 posted:Well, part of the problem was that nobody knew your actual goal was to use Enkidel's power of persuasion to find cracks in the priests statements/intent. I would suggest saying that, because I'm way more sympathetic to that goal than I am to really leading and accusatory questions that seem like they would just piss people off. Well, I also want to piss these people off as well so consider it a multi pronged objective. Hey priest, what are you doing to prepare Ur for the coming swarms of demons that assault our borders every 50 years or so? I mean it looks like you're doing nothing and that's pretty helpful, really! But aside from doing nothing what are you doing? Outrail fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 23:38
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Wouldn't that be counter to muddying the waters? If we get the priest angry at us, why would he be more willing to value our perspective more? I would think that would just lead him to be even more sure that Enkidel is unwise and unable to responsibly speak?
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Feb 19, 2019 23:41
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Zodiac5000 posted:Wouldn't that be counter to muddying the waters? If we get the priest angry at us, why would he be more willing to value our perspective more? I would think that would just lead him to be even more sure that Enkidel is unwise and unable to responsibly speak? I've written this guy off, it really doesn't matter what he thinks about us. But if we leave him angry and hopefully a little confused I'm happy enough.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:43
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Zodiac5000 posted:I like that Azz showed up in full regalia almost immediately. He correctly figured out we didn't give a poo poo that he was a melachim beyond his ability to help or answer questions, so he didn' bother with the time-wasting hiding. "This kid would't worship me if I appeared as a giant pillar of gold, I'm not going to waste time with this burlap sack nonsense." The regalia wasn't a display of trust. It was a temptation to test our character. Kind of hard to tempt someone by offering them riches while wearing a burlap sack.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:50
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A whatever gets us out of the Walls of Text ASAP.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:58
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I don't think it was a display of trust, more of an acknowledgement that even as a kid we weren't going to bow down and worship somebody just because they have wings and look cool. Did he try to tempt us with riches at all in our first meeting? I don't remember that. I remember him pretending to be a man dying of thirst and then trying to cut a deal for our dog and I thought that was it, outside of his suggestion that we join him in partytown I suppose.
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Feb 20, 2019 00:02
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Zodiac5000 posted:The problem is that people think we are telling them the will of El. That's the issue all of this springs from. Even if we did not mean to, its happened, and that's an issue. I don't think they have an objection with warning people, just that us doing it has caused problems, so we are being ordered to stop doing it. If we found a more suitable person to warn people, we could go hog wild.
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Feb 20, 2019 00:19
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A
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Feb 20, 2019 00:19
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Just had a thought. Did the priest say he was speaking on behalf of El? On behalf of the church, or just what he thinks? Because it seems he's telling us not to tell people what to do because they might think it's coming down from on high when it's not, just because of who we are. And that's exactly what the priest is doing. Would we be listening to him if he was a random barkeep? It seems he's either relating Els voice (doubtful), putting words in Els mouth, or using his position to impose an authority he shouldn't.
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Feb 20, 2019 00:21
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The problem with sending more suitable messengers is that no one is going to believe them. Or at least will be far less likely to believe them, which is effectively the same as not even sending a warning. We only met with several Kings through sheer force of Blooded strength, or our reputation proceeding us. We send a Houseman or someone like Paebel, those doors aren't getting opened. Chastising us and telling us that the issue isn't the message, but the messenger, effectively kills the chance the message ever actually gets listened to. So let's just nod, accept our foul tasting medicine like adults, and leave.
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Feb 20, 2019 00:47
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Outrail posted:Just had a thought. Did the priest say he was speaking on behalf of El? On behalf of the church, or just what he thinks? I mean a big part of the church's whole deal is that they ARE the only ones who speak on behalf of El
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Feb 20, 2019 00:48
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FoxTerrier posted:If I can no longer tell cities of the threat to come, will the House of El send a more appropriate messenger to the border cities at risk? FoxTerrier posted:Do you have suggestions for how I might find tools to aid in my cities fight against the demons? Zodiac5000 posted:Question for the priest, paraphrase as needed: Zodiac5000 posted:2. only if question time's 'this will not cause real problems' field is in effect Has the priest heard anything of the city of Chorazin? You suddenly realize that asking him about the status of a random Donut city would from his perspective either (i)be meaningless today (ii)be meaningless today but maybe raise flags if he later learns things occured there or (iii)invite a response if he somehow knew. Realizing that asking is almost certain to ONLY at BEST do nothing and possibly have very bad outcomes, you decide to not slam your dick in a door on the 33% chance the hinges break. Zodiac5000 posted:3. Does the priest have a map of the area east of Carine that we could copy or see? Zodiac5000 posted:4. Does the priest know of any particularly pious and blooded merchants or traders in town[/b] - (idea is to try to find the Carine-equivalent to Agammemnon - it would be smart to find some blooded and well respected merchant or trader for grasslands info) Zodiac5000 posted:5. Ask if the priest remembers ever meeting our Uncle Aaron? He was here a while ago, after all. Zodiac5000 posted:6. Ask if the priest has any knowledge of some of the more common dangers of the grasslands? i.e. are there goblin equivalents, is the problem mostly bandits? are there a bunch of one-off supermonsters just lazing about in caves, etc? [...] You try to gain more clarification from the priest about what you can and can't say and David, High Priest of Carine repeats what he said prior... quote:"I do not say if it is wise or not to send other messengers, I would imagine that is a question for your father, but you are not an appropriate messenger for such." Then adding "Be especially cautious when speaking of fantastical deeds, the extraordinary and the shocking, things tremendously uncommon to men who were not aware of them, or things of a like or kind with them." [...] You can either get the update tonight or I can spend the next two hours answering what will be more and more questions for David, High Priest of Carine. Under the theory that most people would rather have the update, we are going to focus on finishing the update instead.
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Feb 20, 2019 00:52
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Update's fine. I'd have a followup to the merchant thing but I bet we can find a good un - or have our intent and access to David folded in without needing you to explicitly have him answer us.
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Feb 20, 2019 00:57
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Crazycryodude posted:I mean a big part of the church's whole deal is that they ARE the only ones who speak on behalf of El Well yes. That's my point. Is this guy actually relaying a message from on high or relaying a message from elsewhere in the organization or telling us what he wants us to do. Because unless it's the first one he's guilty of the same poo poo he's accusing us of. E: update. We're not getting anything useful from this guy.
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Feb 20, 2019 00:58
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Outrail posted:Well yes. That's my point. Is this guy actually relaying a message from on high or relaying a message from elsewhere in the organization or telling us what he wants us to do. Because unless it's the first one he's guilty of the same poo poo he's accusing us of. You're basically asking if the spokesperson for the president, who is at the podium in the white house press room, is speaking for the president. Yes, he's. Contractions are weird and ending sentences with them is weirder. E: to clarify, according to church doctrine the first two are the same and the third is unlikely based on what he's saying and what others in and out of the church have said. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 01:04
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K
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Feb 20, 2019 01:16
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Olothreutes posted:Yes, he's. This is the second time today i’ve seen this abomination of language and it’s bugging me. I’d never even thought of it before now.
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Feb 20, 2019 01:30
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TK-42-1 posted:This is the second time today i’ve seen this abomination of language and it’s bugging me. I’d never even thought of it before now. I'm not the first person to butcher the English language and I won't be the last. Sorry! E: Whoops, though I was being criticized for using a preposition. Nevermind  But yeah, the church has held very different stances to El on topics before. We know they interpret doctrine. It's a fair question. Outrail fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 01:41
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