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Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Given the timeline in the OP, I don't think A is going to result in us RPing an angel, angels are from the first day. We would be some sort of cosmic horror hurtling through the endless void.

No idea what B would be.

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Algid
Oct 9, 2007


All the people voting for H do know that we're beginning our life by inciting fratricide right? And that's only if we save Jalitha. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, since dad seems to be an rear end in a top hat, but beginning the game by killing our dad seems a bit...mad.

I'm going for F to divert dad's attention (watch how this causes us to suffer some sort of permanent debilitating injury).

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

Uh what in any of that implied the high priest of the village was going to get killed by his brother (-in-law?) over a slave girl? Stopping a fight doesn't mean 'murdering one or both of the participants'.
Why would he help at all?

I'm saying if he does challenge his older brother on this, it's not something dad can just let go. He's the priest and has to able to assert his authority.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


H

Pretty sure the is going to make this unintelligible though.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


I think if we cut her hair instead of killing her, it would show that we're also basically a heretic, and we're going to be exiled along with Jalitha.

Basically, we're about to become Ishmael.

C

We can start when we're about to die of dehydration in the desert.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


1. B, E, F, H, A, C, D, G

2. E

What have the sky giants or big fish done for me lately

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Ixtlilton posted:

edit: Also, at you guys who don't trust Jalitha.
Did you already forget all the people who kept on trying to kill Narod?

I mean, who else would you kill rather than your loyal champion/nursemaid?

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Flame112 posted:

Jalitha is the reason we're an outcast. It's pretty reasonable that we wouldn't want to be seen with her.
It has nothing at all to do with the fact our dad is a religious fanatic who seems to creep everyone out. Nope. It's all the fault of the foreign slave girl who just happened to be integral to keeping us alive for 4 years while we weren't even in full control of our faculties.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Give her a hug.

Eating corpses is only unsanitary, but the eugenics is pretty

As for the main vote, I never had the impression that belief in Asherah or El actually corresponded to worship of either. Yeah, they're real, that doesn't mean I really see any reason Og would be attached to long hair or whatever. We're already an outcast and the only person who really cared about that stuff was our dad, and we didn't even like him.

A

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


This really is getting biblical though, what with the prohibition against eating long pig.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


A_Bug_That_Thinks posted:

I really don't know how you people can hug this woman.
With our arms presumably

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Talk to the king and try to learn how to speak in tongues like he apparently can.

1. A
2. A B

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Name our puppy The Gate so we can

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


B and J

Belief doesn't have to result in worship. We have no idea if El still exists as a single coherent being, it's supposed to have crafted at least some of reality using its own flesh. Even then, we don't know if it wants worship, or deserves it.

Asherah is just an rear end in a top hat and specifically offers "not going to eat you right now" as the only type of reward. If the angels failed to kill it, that just leaves more delicious shark meat for us later.

Making friends is pretty cool too, even if it never really worked out last time unless you count Narod.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Theglavwen posted:

Because we believe Asherah will drown the world/eat us/destroy all we know if we don't follow his whatever. Maybe we'll be able to put together that, hey, all these other people worship Not-Asherah, and they haven't been drowned, so what gives? But completely stripping ourselves of all our deeply ingrained beliefs, built up over a decade of our most formative years, this quickly? Nah.
Belief in supernatural entities doesn't equate with worship.

The most powerful being we knew in our day to day lives was Shushem, and we hated him.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Theglavwen posted:

So? We believe that if he's not worshipped (or whatever was involved in attending to him, I'm assuming praying is part of that, otherwise why would it ever have been a part of our activities, seeing as he doesn't reward it) then he'll destroy everything.
We obviously don't believe that if we ever did, we just ran away after all.

We believed that Asherah is real and is a source of power, which is why we asked all those questions about magic powers and predicting the weather and stuff. No one was asking how we should worship Asherah, just the why of it, and the reason given only drove us to want to learn more and gain more power. Prayers were mentioned only in the context of something we did with Jalitha, and we were explicitly told that praying to Asherah for protection doesn't work, and the rituals that were part of worship (leaving to the forest, getting a shark once a year) was hidden from us.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Not A

What sort of adventures are we going to be having in a dark forest at night as an eleven year old?

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Random Idiot posted:

It's definitely not a coincidence that a goddamn king shows up at Og's doorstep with the right combination of magical doodads to resist fish-lightning either, so they're probably lying about 'Wanderlust' too.
We crushed Kranberry when we showed up in chuckling because he was a chump. He had extensive preparations and he had knowledge of us, he was just several magnitudes weaker.

It's pretty obvious that whatever powers fishdad had was just plain weaker than the king.

There also isn't a dichotomy between El and Asherah. We can always withhold judgement until we have more information. Frankly I think we have more than enough information Asherah (rear end in a top hat cannibal fish), but that doesn't mean we need to automatically worship El.


CAH, this probably won't get us killed I guess.

Algid fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2013 around 15:13

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


I don't get why people seem to think Asherah or El even want worship, especially in the case of El. Nothing in the OP suggests that the creator god required that from humans, and Asherah seems to be some sort of elemental force like Otac except more of an rear end in a top hat.

The Onegod certainly didn't require worship, prayer can work, but I think dedicating action towards a particular end makes a lot more sense.

Just try to do whatever you think is right, and if some supernatural entity out there is cool with that, they'll naturally help out. So far all the supernatural revelation we've personally received is a vague message about some storm, I need better than that before I commit to anything, especially when I don't even know who the message came from.



Does C and D require B?

I'm going to try for Z: protect the tree after we've stashed some people on it.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


OhYo posted:

That's a huge assumption the Creator has any limitation from Enkidel's perspective. It's a bigger leap to that than it is to the Creator's omnipotence. I feel comfortable bringing endless supplications than to shy from bothering the Creator.
That brings along a lot of assumptions of your own. You're assuming El is very similar to the Abrahamic god when it's possible that its a creator god along the lines of a primordial giant like Ymir or Pangu. There's repeated references to angels and humans being crafted from its flesh after all.

God might very well be dead, or left in a state where its not cognizant of anything trivial like prayers. That might even be why there's apparently some sort of schism among the angels.

I wouldn't trust anything without cause, we've been told that Asherah straight up doesn't answer prayers (might respond to blood sacrifice, but I'm against that since it sets a bad precedent), and we haven't been told that El responds to prayers either. We might be weak, but getting out mom and Danal up a tree and then holding on to some sort of weapon is something we're capable of with our own two hands. It might not be effective in that the final results might not work out, but the actions themselves are fundamentally more sound than "pray to rear end in a top hat fish god (in the middle of a forest) for help" or "pray to possibly dead god, when there's no indication from his own worshipers that it does anything".

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Bularin posted:

And since out of the supernatural options, going all Sith lord is far more cool than trying to go Catholic exorcist on them, I'm rather surprised it isn't even more popular.
Everyone knows that going Sith Lord will just kill you in another 20 updates though, narrative causality demands it.

I mean, in the last game our future selves tried to kill ourselves twice via time travel (even if it was just an accident once). That's what happens when you rp an evil rear end in a top hat.

Algid fucked around with this message at Jun 13, 2013 around 17:55

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Tudiya might very well be some sort of Nephalim, it's probably atavistic angel powers he's using, not god intervening on his behalf. Given our name, we might also have angel blood somewhere along the line, but begging for lightening powers just seem so uncool, it'll come if the situation is right, we don't have to just give up at the first sign of trouble and pray for a miracle.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Bularin posted:

Yea, let's start this again. It worked really well last time.
It did work out pretty well since it's just the simplest way to metagame votes. If there were more S votes, I would vote not-S too.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Changing to triple not-S.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


tarepanda posted:

I yell a prayer to Asheras, asking him to bite the hell out of the monsters. Asheras and his prayers have been drilled into me since I was little, so it's basically a reflex at this point.
We've literally been told by a priest of Asherah that he doesn't answer prayers. If you want to get results, you have to at least provide worship beyond just some quality rear end-kissing, something like a blood sacrifice (which I'm voting against, but at least that could do something).

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Diogines posted:

OPTION S Cut your palm with the giant tooth and try imitate what your father did to shoot lightning.

Diogines posted:

Don't take this as any indication that it won't work, it very well could, and I really mean that, it could, you have no idea how it worked, but I am scratching my head and a bit surprised at the quick popularity of S Lightning, insofar as you seem confident it WILL work.

The extent of the practical knowledge you learned from Shushem was how to make a few powders and identify certain plants, animals and rocks he used. You know 0 "magical" rituals or spells and have no useful hints on how he did them, or don't realize if you do. You had no idea he could toss lightning till you saw him do it and have no hint as to how.

If S fails, what do you plan to do about the monsters charging at you, Jalitha and Danal?

What do you plan to do about a serious cut when you have no medical supplies in the middle of a battle?

I really mean this when I say that it could work and don't take this post to hint otherwise, but my the point is, you have no idea HOW it worked.

You want it to work. I would like a pony and you probably want to be strong enough to rip it's leg off Tudiya style. You may want to consider the distinction between simply wanting something to work and the odds of it actually working. I would place the odds at "unknown".

Voting just started and S is a strong winner so far.
Can we at least have the S voters amend things to cutting somewhere aside from our palm? I'd rather have a stupid self inflicted scar that at least won't possibly result in permanent loss of function in one of my hands.

Back of forearm maybe? I hope accidentally severing our extensors is less bad than severing our flexors.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


I really don't understand how people just didn't get what sort of thing Asherah is when it was spelled out very clearly.

It's like people trying to kill Narod, but this time we're somehow trying to win the favor of a supernatural entity that's pretty much just offering to eat us first.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Theglavwen posted:

So you're trying to avoiding it by ... what, exactly? Downvoting S is only upvoting any and every other alternative, none of which seem to offer any better chance, and, as of right now, most of the winning alternatives seem to offer standing around and hoping.
There are different ways to fail and a particular action establishes precedent for future decisions.

For example, a number of people on team Narod died last game, but we were still very much responsible in large part for things turning out like they were. We lost in that in we failed to reach the obvious end goal of becoming a god, but we succeeded in not giving in to our insane future self and birthed the Onegod.

We'll almost certainly fail if it's just us and a spear against regenerating dinosaurs, but we can accomplish small victories like getting Jalitha and Danal out of immediate danger, rather than setting up a precedent of cutting ourselves each time we come across a small problem.

I mean if you have to worship an rear end in a top hat god, Asherah isn't even particularly strong, he's no Nem Teshet at the least.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


A Terrible Person posted:

Fight the monster from the inside!
Things got weird after we vomited up a dude last game, inverting things can only make it better.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Theglavwen posted:

Sure, there are different ways to 'fail', given different aimed-for outcomes, then again, many of those 'ways to fail' will be 'ways to succeed' from other points of view. But certainly there are ways for outcomes to not go ideally, but there's a big difference between 'setting a potentially bad precendent' and 'trying hard to get us killed'.

Besides, our current options for getting Jalitha and Danal out of danger involve running recklessly into the woods, away from the warriors who protect us, or climbing a tree where we can sit and wait helplessly to be eaten. Perhaps 'cutting ourselves' could just as easily be seen as setting a proactive precendent of trying to stand up to challenges, while the alternative could be seen as setting a precedent of running away and hiding whenever we come across a small problem. There are a whole bunch of ways these decisions can colour our character.
I specifically asked if we also had to stay in the tree if we took them up, we don't.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


tarepanda posted:

That about sums up why I didn't want to run into the woods.

I don't want to climb a tree because I figured these monsters are big/strong enough to just knock the drat thing over or make us fall out.
Tree climbing has a success rate of 1/1 while fish-lightening is at 0/1 so far, just saying.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Theglavwen posted:

Kay, so how about the 'get Danal and Jalitha up a tree, then try lightning' options bandied about earlier? I'm still not seeing how this is a 'S votes bad' argument, or how it translates to lightning voters 'trying hard to get us killed'. Maybe that's not the argument you're trying to make? But in that case I'm not sure why my comment was addressed.
You're saying that getting them up the tree leads to a precedent of running away, I'm saying that that's not the case. It's not a reason to vote for or against S, just that of the 2 choices S is not automatically the more proactive action we can take, which is what you were saying.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


SerSpook posted:

edit: On what's proactive and what's not, prayer to El or angels is pretty proactive. We've actually had that have an effect in the game, for instance, and that's what they're supposed to do.
It's hard to separate what's an effect of some outside supernatural force and what's an effect of of Tudiya and company's weird ancestry. The only incident might be the group prayer, and even then that could have been just the king.

The only supernatural power we've experienced that couldn't possibly have come from another human is the voice that we heard when we were 4.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


SerSpook posted:

The prayer in the forest calmed stuff down, unless we imagined that which is possible. My point is that we've perhaps seen more from El prayer than we have Asherah prayer.
There was a confounding variable in Danal, we don't know if our own prayer did it, or if his ancestry allowed him to tap into the same sort of power Tudiya could consciously control.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


We choose to hold the gate in this game and do the other things. Not because it is easy, but because it is hard.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


maxhush posted:

I'm under no impression that at all that Asherah is benevolent at all, I just want to do something other than being Els most loyal sycophant. All of a sudden forgetting we, as a character, believe in both Gods (therefore would want to appease both)
I'm not an El worshiper and I've repeatedly had to drop not votes because the Asherah votes are just obviously suicidal.

I mean I voted to hold the gate for quite a while last game, but I didn't ever delude myself into thinking it meant we could effectively oppose IAM by doing so.

There are god(s), angels and demons in this game, but even when choosing to rp a mortal, that doesn't mean we necessarily have to align with any of them without a good reason. We've been promised an interesting perspective, I'm much more inclined to be patient and see some more of the world before we decide (as an eleven year old) to be any sort of religious fanatic.

Anyways, A (which also happens to be not-B, finally a binary vote where people hopefully won't complain about how I'm the one ruining their game).

Algid fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2013 around 12:37

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


FoxTerrier posted:

Unless there's something I missed, I assumed as such an important figure in El stories that he was some kind of saint figure.

I'll go re-read that section though, maybe I missed something.
Spoilers from ancient Akkadian literature: he dead, he real dead.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Diogines, does the mention of Lucifer in the OP mean that a creature like that definitely exists in game, or was it meant to just outline expectations for what that vote will do?

I mean, people complaining that we've somehow been forced into El worship seem to literally have no imagination. If you really need some sort of demon worship fix, I'm sure there are cooler demons out there than cannibal fish.

Algid
Oct 9, 2007


Diogines posted:

the Great Lobster Father, Smis, has actually fought to protect people from Asherah if they were deserving. Asherah ate his claws instead. They grew back.
I'm now morbidly curious about how this could actually manifest in game.

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Algid
Oct 9, 2007


my dad posted:

Like, say, the limbs of the creatures attacking us?
I meant how intervention from Smis would look. I mean, did it even work out, or did he lose his claws and the people he was trying to protect. How would it work out if he decided to intervene (somehow, in the middle of the forest miles away from the sea)?

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