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John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Random Idiot posted:

I hate this king more and more every update. Reading peoples minds all willy nilly and now he can't even be bothered to hunt like a man, has to use jedi mind tricks on deer.

What, you don't like getting all Ford Prefect in your hunting style?

Anyways, my votes are for and . We almost certainly can't be of help, but maybe a pointy stick will keep enemies at bay!

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John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

1-A, 2-K

We tried to shoot lightning, and it failed; now Asherah is swallowing us up! We're sorry, El!

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Jewcoon posted:

E: Danal, Enkidel. Lets start our own adventures and stories!

Voting for this, myself. We've already seen awesome stuff, we can totally parley this into being future famous heroes!

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

1: D. We gotta represent.

2: A. Stick with the big man, we'll go far.

4: B. Lovelorn, loveworn, love lost.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

1: D

2: M

We don't NEED to take Snarls, guys, he's a dog. Wake up Snarls, and then take whatever item we desire (I vote for knife here, but the other leading options are good, too). He's a good dog, he'll follow without us having to do anything.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

1: A, C, D, F

2: O

3: R

4: T

5: E

Man, we aren't supposed to talk about the events of the test. This is pretty certain.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Re: the minivote, what exactly are we intending to say to Aaron? "Uh, yeah, about Bareen's thing she said, I was... wrong. Yeah, we have to go now."

"Okay, man, she TOTALLY didn't say that, I was wrong, let's get out of here."



I mean, I personally vote for something along the lines of "Aaron, she spoke of the city being destroyed, but it is by no means certain that the danger is coming from down here; it was caution that drove us down here, and whatever is behind here doesn't seem like a trap set by her at all."

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

F, so that we come across as a badass who cares about the King's Justice.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

C
Guy's cool, let's help him stay cool.

G
Let's stay safe for a while. Things have been too dangerous.

O, P, S
Get a nice spread going here.

U
What I said about staying safe goes double here. Triple. We've been warned by multiple people not to gently caress around in even benign-seeming supernatural abilities, let's take their word on it.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Man, if I had arrived in time to vote, I would have voted with Tomn's plan.

Sogol, you're saying there's strawmen being tossed about, and that people's arguments are lessened by a hostile tone. A perfectly acceptable view, and one I agree with.

Sogol posted:

I am even more persuaded by arguments given about Potting that we are completely and thoroughly getting ready to be a dick.

The arguments given have predicted what then happens as if it were a good thing.

The upside is that if we are really successful and put the other potters out of business we can snap them up when they go into debt and hit the slave market.

Soon we will have cornered the market on clay and pots, enslaving all the other potters. . .

Sogol posted:

Once we have won the competitive model and own all the clay and all the potting labor, I feel quite certain we will then do some really nice, good things for people.


I feel your tone is far more aggressive and unreasonable than anybody else on either side of the argument. You're saying that by arguing that This Guy doesn't have to change, that we're going to have a complete monopoly on pots. And we're directly on the path to doing SO WELL, we put all the other potters out of business, and then enslave them.

These are terribly illogical arguments; you're giving a classic slippery slope argument, and taking it a step further by judging other people's moral character based on a thing you're saying they'd do after doing another thing you're saying they'd do after doing another thing you're saying they'd do. It's just not tenable. Echoing Tomn, I totally agree that all that stuff would be a dick move, and that's why I'd vote against it if the issue came up.

Sogol, you're in the top three best posters in this thread, and all this seems out of character for you, if I can judge based on some Internet posts about made up places. You usually present a point logically and concisely. You had a similar negative reaction about commercial interests back when it was first brought up, and I think you might be letting some strong personal opinions get the better of your arguments. I don't mean any offense here, just unfounded speculation.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

F: Ask Tudiya what he thinks my chances of survival are in various options. I imagine he wants us to succeed, he may be willing to give us a few friendly nudges.

What with all this talk of pottery, I noticed that our share of the pottery business came to four pounds of silver. We got 40% of his ten pounds, leaving him with six... which is the amount an average potter makes. I mean, he's still ahead of the game by a bit since he doesn't have to do as much rote manual labor, but I think we should renegotiate our contract to be a bit more fair. Down to twenty or thirty percent, most likely. Remember, Lefkandi wasn't an 'average' potter, he was pretty high class.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Tomn posted:

obvious stuff about elapsed time


I completely missed that! In that case, nevermind about renegotiation. He's making bank, and relaxing more. I'd still be more comfortable if we weren't using slaves to accomplish this, but I may be sticking my own ethics into a society where they don't belong.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

7: D

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

1. C, let's give back some of this cash we're earning. We're flooding the market with monster parts, so we're making more off of kills than other people (usually) have in the past. I personally feel better being generous when wealthy, and at the least it's good PR.

2. H. Those guys deserve to be recognized, and we're a Known Figure of Coolness and Bravery. Give them some semi-public props.

3. A. Sure; the guy may be an rear end in a top hat, but he's probably not up to anything evil. Tudiya almost certainly would have warned us if he was.

4. S. Sure, I guess. No big deal.

5. V, duuuuuuuuuhpotato

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Voting A here.


Are psyche-shards still allowed to express actions? I feel this is unclear. If we are, I want to try and calm everybody down in the name of considered action.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

A sounds like the best bet to me, but I ain't gonna complain if we get off-track.


(almost a pun)

(but not quite)

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

A, because breathing is for suckers.

Well, not really. SOme of my best friends are breathers. But we, personally don't need to, as we've proven through experiment. All the rest is willpower.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Sogol posted:

EL HA MELECH KOL HA OLAM!

Gotta go with D on this one.

El, I am really sorry about eating during the fast time; I didn't want it to happen. I want to do good and I want to be good and a big part of this is very definitely not wanting to eat either Billy or Snarls. I will give up silver, prestige, many things. I don't want to lose the company of either of them, and in that sense it's a selfish desire. But hurting people badly for my own gain is straight up Bad Stuff. Please help us not to do this.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

I totally want the secrets of the universe as well, but if that's truly what you want from this CYOA, I think the best option is to take it easy rather than questioning Ishamal all the time. I mean, we're doing slow training over the course of years, right? And we already know we can plan to live for a looong time. Fewer actions and more simplification means more timeskips, which means more [???] skill and probably more info from Ishamal eventually.

FOr those who are ticked at Ishamal not telling us a lot, remember he is thinking on a very different timescale from human-normal. He's on Mighty level, and we don't have to get answers now while we still have youth and strength; we can wait for decades and still be a beefy mancake of awesome Might and magic.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Throwing my vote at good old A H Q as well.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Wait, why are we considering accepting the rubies on the basis that we saved the city? We did jack and poo poo to save it. We should tell him about the mission, and then see if he still wants to give us some rubies for being such swell guys.


1. E. Leave the question of the rubies in abeyance until after we tell him about the divine message.

2. I.

3. L.

4. N. If Dala really needs our help on this one, uh, sure, go ahead man.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Voting for Plan Sogol, viz. O. I ask to learn of a new skill from El himself.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Have to vote for H here, ham sandwiches are pretty effective at sustaining life.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

1. E

2. J

Like, this is a legit complicated and messy business as far as honor goes. We will spread the word about Jesbaam later, make it an Important Thing, but for now, we need to GTFO.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Lanky Coconut Tree posted:

all penetrative sex is rape anyway so it's not like we haven't been committing war crimes against femininity ingame so far

Please, be accurate when quoting terrible things.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Who I am, I do not, cannot know. It is clear there is more to my being than I know, but cannot that be said of all men? Who I would become if I knew who I am now is equally opaque to me. I will answer as best I can: I am Enkidel, son of Tudiya. I am one who strives.

From life? I wish a glorious life, of battle and acclaim, and of a quiet life, with the love of my family and the teaching of children my only reward. I desire to protect the innocents from the storm, and to fight whatever comes with all of my strength. I want the cities to grow, to change in ways I cannot yet imagine, and I want them to be stable and free from turmoil.

What I would make of the world, I could not answer without knowing a great deal more of the world than I do now. I know that there are those wiser than me in great supply, yet I have my own beliefs, and grip them with all my Mighty strength. If I were to give an answer now, it would be: Nothing. Let the world do as it likes to me, and we will change each other, as any two people might.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Daned posted:

I agree with the statements above.

Whoa, you're also Tomn? Heavy.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Throwing my vote in the B pile. I feel like legit doing this may cause some of the people who were in the for a Clash of the Heavens to leave the thread and never return, but poo poo, I like the characters we're around. Besides, fewer intense decisions means faster time, which means advancing in knowledge and power faster. Remember when we spent a long time training with Ish and just got cooler and better at Powers? Clearly what we're doing is a bad plan, and I'm totally up for years of Not loving Things Up and also family times.


John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Arkanomen posted:

B

But one day take him and him alone out to hunt. Do not say anything but enjoy the time together and then at night fall speak around the campfire. Open up a dialogue. The goal being to connect as a brother and to speak. Don't ever mention that we are out shining him or have more glory or even that we will be king. Let Danal speak and encourage him to realize that the only person that can get him out of our shadow is himself. He has been following us since childhood and we have been pushing him since. It's time he spread his own wings and took responsibility for his own success. I love Danal but wallowing in selfpity is toxic and only will grow into resentment and hostility over time. This is something serious and we need to keep communication open and encourage Danal to reach for his own glory.

Voting for B, and specifically this plan.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Tomn posted:

if we shadow her where we see no real reason to shadow anyone else, we're essentially declaring that she is lesser than the weakest weakling who ever weaked.

I see the logic here, but I don't agree. There can be all sorts of reasons not to infer that from those actions; maybe we just care about Ruth more than anyone else, so it'd be so much more of a pain to lose her we decide to hedge our bets.

I think the only really relevant one, though, is that she's a Woman out on a MANhood trial. Public opinion is against it, people thinks it's reckless and irresponsible, etc. Her dying brutally in the wilderness could set these 'gender equality' ideas back generations or more; it could well be worth it to somebody to send out somebody to watch over her just in case; not as an insult to her, but as a safety net in case both Enkidel and Ruth are wrong about her skills. It's not so much to ensure her safety as indirectly making sure future efforts in this regard don't get shouted down by crowds going "REMEMBER YOUR DAUGHTER ENKIDEL, WHEN WILL YOU LEARN"

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Just noticed that, according to the first post, this is a "Chose Your Own Adventure style game."

How long must we endure this shame?

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Mexican Deathgasm posted:

But the problem with Ishmael is that, in his head, he would think "this exercise is good for this for these reasons." To Enkidel, he would say "DO THIS BOY WHAT DON'T QUESTION YOU DUMB gently caress JUST DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD", which is the issue that makes life more dangerous for us. He's either so disconnected from humanity because he's so old that he doesn't understand that humans need to know things in order to trust advice and orders, or he's a giant dick that thinks everyone is lesser than him and should instinctively obey his every word. Either way, he is hard to deal with and it's understandable people get pissed at him.


I think this in itself isn't inherently a problem. People have different standards or thresholds for how much information they need before they feel okay with something; just look at the thread for an easy illustration of this. A lot of people give Ishamal flak for not being super forthcoming with information, which is understandable and possibly desirable. I sure as heck wish he was telling us more, but he looks to be on that road, and that's heartening. But he also gets the whole "We're not a CHILD, tell us everything you know about us and the cosmic situation," which doesn't make a whole ton of sense to me. Being a child isn't the only reason you don't give somebody all the information at your disposal, even if it's an issue of making things easy or safe for them. When I'm fixing my grandma's computer, I just tell her not to download things from sketchy websites anymore, and maybe we'll get to why later; I don't want to go into a two-hour discussion about basic computer facts -> how filesystems work -> what malware does -> why that's bad. If I'm working at the drugstore and they tell me I need to go and get some boxes and move them around in the storeroom, I just do it and don't ask for the entire reasoning behind it, because I've accepted the manager's authority on that particular aspect of my behavior.

You can accept somebody's being in charge, or the boss, of SOMETHING, without saying they are the ultimate boss of you forever. I think this is where a lot of the disagreements about Ishamal come from. Some people are like "I'll do what that guy says, sure, seems okay," and others are like "Oh, so you think Ishamal is smarter than us and better and should be in charge of us for a couple thousand years, huh?" I think from reading the thread that the former group is closer to thinking that Ishamal knows more about our magic powers and the dangers they present, so we should generally listen to him about this stuff and take it on faith that he will tell us stuff later. If I recall, and I admit I could be wrong on this, Ishamal wasn't too hot on us being interested in Naomi, but we ignored him, which is good. (In my opinion, we're a grandma with a computer right now, and the situation is complicated by the fact that we know stuff in this universe is affected by knowledge and belief.) The second group thinks Ishamal should treat as as an equal, but I think he basically is, except for the parts that are currently important to us. You can make the argument that if she shared more information, we'd be closer to knowing more about what was safe and dangerous, which is a sound argument on the face of it. Possible issues are the fact that, as stated, belief affects the universe strongly, and it might affect us or the world negatively in ways we can't know about, and the fact that Ishamal knows what the more... extreme posters are posting in this very thread, and he finds it hard to trust our ability to act nicely and rationally when often there's a small part of us that really wants to beat the priests to death with our wife's corpse, then eat all the bodies.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

H. Various questions/statements echoing other sentiments in the thread along the lines of "Tell me what you are doing and why," "who are you," and the question leading the pack whatever happened to free will you twats.

Seriously, I am PISSED now.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

A vote is cast for C

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

1.

A x2

B x1

L x1

O x1, but I also want to pay a bit of special attention to Ruth. How is he viewed among the people? Make sure there's not a group of haters out there. Take Ruth drinking, make sure people know he's my Son, etc.

(Saved in the spreadsheet)

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:

Our lame excuse now.

Yes. Absolutely, yes. We need to train a bit more in clubbing, and then claim we have after much training learned Enkidu's secret technique for club-flying.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Theglavwen posted:

Also, Tomn, while your new avatar may be silly, I think you should keep the text. It's funny, and let's face it, probably pretty apt. And not just for you.

I disagree; I think it gives too much away for new readers who wouldn't know the direction the story and Enkidel are headed. I know it's a small demographic, but avoiding spoilers seems like a polite thing to do.

In other news, I've just bought a friend who likes epic stories and CYOAs a forums account.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

I'm voting for B. We could have done great things, but the risk was immense. And when you gently caress up bad, you take responsibility and try and make things not-lovely for other people. We aren't tough (thought we ARE badass) and part of that is that we're less tough than usual. Because if it ever looks like dying is exceptionally likely, I think we're morally obligated to NOT gamble between very probably turn into a certainly murderous monster vs. a low chance at survival. Obviously, people may calculate the odds differently than i do, and that's fine. I don't vote often because I don't want to steer Enkidel 'wrong,' but this is one occcasion where I'm certain I can steer him towards... the path that is, at minimum, not the MOST wrong.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

1. E

2.

Ghostwoods posted:

L. "I'm already dead. I love you all. Run like the wind."

Or some such variation on the themes of love and running.

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John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

I would also like to strongly encourage Hunger voters to eat other Hunger voters. It's not an invalid vote, and the consequences probably won't be bad!

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