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We are apparently getting a flashback to Jonas Jr investigating the Gargantua I crash site, might be some secrets there.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:36
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I really want more flashbacks to stuff in the past. Everything will be very anticlimactic. like Jonas Sr died doing the funky spider-man, and that's why no one wants to talk about it. Nothing would destroy the Great Mans myth if everyone found out he died doing the stroke and choke. At least in my headcanon.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:17
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Ironically, Jonas Venture died with a Rusty Venture.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:05
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Honestly I would just be happy with continued focus on the Blue Morpho storyline from Season 6. I made a joking post about it, but I'm honestly a little afraid they're just gonna quietly drop it in favor of whatever new thing they came up with for this season. Also, just got to the Dr. Quymn episode and man. That bit that the end where Quymn's bodyguard yells "She's not a wereodile, she's epileptic!" and Doc just instantly goes "EW!" with this disgusted look on his face. Just holy poo poo, what a complete and utter rear end in a top hat. I never did understand why he was crying at the end of that episode.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:09
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Phenotype posted:Honestly I would just be happy with continued focus on the Blue Morpho storyline from Season 6. I made a joking post about it, but I'm honestly a little afraid they're just gonna quietly drop it in favor of whatever new thing they came up with for this season. That episode was terrible, thankfully it can be pretty easily ignored considering it only gets referred to twice later on, and in both cases pretty minor ones that you don't really need any context to
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Jul 12, 2018 04:16
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It has the Blue Morpho in it though.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:27
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If you want the other side of that coin, there's the book MASH. I'd rather see someone grossed out by a medical condition than aroused. Either way, when somebody lacks the basic human decency to have simple empathy for a fellow human being, it ain't gonna be pretty.
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Jul 12, 2018 05:08
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drrockso20 posted:That episode was terrible, thankfully it can be pretty easily ignored considering it only gets referred to twice later on, and in both cases pretty minor ones that you don't really need any context to I've never understood the hate for it. It's not my favorite episode by any stretch but it's still a ton of fun and well made.
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Jul 12, 2018 09:20
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feedmyleg posted:I've never understood the hate for it. It's not my favorite episode by any stretch but it's still a ton of fun and well made. Among many other reasons the biggest is that it's simply an incredibly unpleasant episode, and it just isn't funny enough to make up for that
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Jul 12, 2018 09:49
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Unpleasant in what way? Its worldview and attitudes, or its watchability? I disagree with the latter personally because I find it to be a fun-if-lesser episode, and with the former I get it but it doesn't strike me as significantly more cynical or distasteful than returning the blank-brained clone slug of a child you got killed to his parents as if nothing happened, or using the soul of a tortured orphan to power a masturbation machine.
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Jul 12, 2018 10:21
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Ehh, the episode's kind of weird all over the place sexually, with Brock and his female counterpart, and it hits a bit close to home to see even a deliberately unpleasant character be outright disgusted by someone having a medical condition. Then again, on retrospect kind of the entire theme of that episode is how messed up sexually pretty much all the characters are (see the childhood flashback, and the twins getting rapey on Dean, likely not helping his developing views on sexuality) and not surprising it strays into some uncomfortable territory.
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Jul 12, 2018 10:24
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I mean, the whole premise of the episode is that these two people got a super hosed up view of sexuality from their swinging parents bringing them to key parties to play with each other (and may be half siblings because of their parents lifestyle) and how they passed their hosed up views on sexuality down to their children in really unfortunate and distorted ways. I get that there's an icky quality to it, but I don't think that was handled carelessly. Though I admit, Brock and the other body guard was much better handled with Warriana.
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Jul 12, 2018 10:33
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It certainly hasn't aged well.
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Jul 12, 2018 14:35
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That episode has my favorite physical comedy gag of the entire series: when Doc flies off the top of the land rover and rolls down the hood. Theres a ton of really good jokes in there between all the hosed upness. 'Now you're all... Go Team B-B-BOOBIES'
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Jul 12, 2018 15:09
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Without the Dr. Quymn episode we would get the line "well, the quymn sisters told us to stop calling" from Operation PROM and Col. Gentleman popping Rusty in Now Museum Now You Don't yelling "That's for breaking my step-daughter's heart."
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Jul 12, 2018 15:27
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It's definitely not a great episode but I don't hate it. Doc flying out of the jeep is great, the "love at first site" with hank and both girls, and then both girls and dean is funny even if the followups aren't great. "and gave him a circumcision!" is funny too.
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Jul 12, 2018 15:58
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how you holding up, broken arrow
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Jul 12, 2018 17:57
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feedmyleg posted:Unpleasant in what way? Its worldview and attitudes, or its watchability? the venture bros has big, big problems regarding women and depictions of women. the most important female character on the show doesn't even really have a name, she's just referred to via her relationship to her male partner they're changing this but the dr. quymn episode (itself a slur, quim is an old timey word for oval office and not worth it for the strength of the dr. quinn pun) is not just kind of dumb but portrays women very poorly. it is useful to show directly how jonas was a lovely dad because he was a swinger who neglected his son and sabotaged his son's masculinity (not just hinting at it with hallucinations about a giant umbilical cocked father) and how this crippled rusty's ability to connect with women. but in order to provide this exposition we get treated to extreme lesbian stereotype lady and dr. sensitive hippy sex object trope i'm not saying the episode is totally garbage but yeesh it has Problems Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 18:07
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Her name is Sheila.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:10
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Cojawfee posted:Her name is Sheila. yeah but we dont learn this until season 4? meanwhile she's dr. girlfriend right off the bat and they make a joke about how her name keeps changing, dr. mrs. my wife etc. i'm not saying she is a weak character but it is notable that she is directly used to titillate the monarch (and the audience) and her identity largely revolves around him, which is complicated in a world where Sidekick is a viable career path like if we want to talk about how the venture brothers has problems as a show the almost total absence of female characters is at the top of that list Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 18:14
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Yeah I love that they're finally having her go by Sheila more often than not. And the fact that they seem to be examining the quasi-abusive/emotionally problematic relationship Monarch has with her is very promising. It definitely seemed like in season 6 (and 5 to a degree) they're specifically trying to address their own poor history with this.luxury handset posted:the venture bros has big, big problems regarding women and depictions of women. the most important female character on the show doesn't even really have a name, she's just referred to via her relationship to her male partner Yeah, that's fair. It might be a bit rosier in my memory precisely because it is where the show starts to delve into the nature of its own sexual politics. I guess that's what happens when my own awareness of these issues is evolving at about the same pace as a show's awareness. But agreed totally on the last part, even when it aired I felt very icky about the poorly handled lesbian stereotype.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:18
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Man, Season 1 is full of toxic language.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:25
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luxury handset posted:the venture bros has big, big problems regarding women and depictions of women. the most important female character on the show doesn't even really have a name, she's just referred to via her relationship to her male partner Sheila. Her name is Sheila. I think you might be missing the joke here*. The whole thing where she's referred to using names that identify her relationship to her boyfriend/husband is a comment on how the in-universe world of she inhabits deals with women in general. They kind-of lampshade this joke when she goes from "Dr. Girlfriend" to the even more preposterous "Dr. Mrs. The Monarch." She gets that ridiculous name not because the writers of the show have that little respect for her because of her gender; she gets it because in her world, regardless of a woman's abilities, that's about all the respect they get. They played on this earlier when she was giving up her "Lady Au Pair" identity: each of the proposed new villain identities is more sexy (and sexist) than the last, and finally she just tells them that she wants to do something that plays up to her abilities instead of her obvious sex appeal. So what happens? First, Watch acknowledges this as if he'd never considered that she might want to play to her abilities instead of her looks ("Feminist type!"), and then he assumes that this means she wants to #2 for a woman, who is a bondage fetish villainess. Then, Phantom Limb shows up, takes her under his wing, and she becomes a trophy in a sexy outfit. (But she did get a name: Queen Etheria.) Of course, the only one who agrees with her that she's being wasted is Monarch, who she almost immediately falls in love with. I don't see the lack of women in general, or even the near total lack of strong, competent women, as a weakness or an example of sexism from the writers in the case of the Venture Bros. I think it's a deliberate decision that makes sense for this show, and for two reasons. First, the show did start as a parody of Johnny Quest and morphed into a deconstruction of it, and the source was virtually free of females. And second, I tend to infer that one big reason why Doc's world is so hosed up is specifically because of the lack of women. He's the latest generation produced by the guys who said "Be quiet, dear; the boys are talking!" in the 50s and 60s. They got to create their own culture based purely on old-fashioned masculinity, and look at how it ended up. There's a good essay out there on this subject, let me see if I can find it... OK: click here! * to be fair, I might be assuming this is all on purpose in error. But, I don't think so.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:35
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tarlibone posted:Sheila. Her name is Sheila. I think you might be missing the joke here*. The whole thing where she's referred to using names that identify her relationship to her boyfriend/husband is a comment on how the in-universe world of she inhabits deals with women in general. They kind-of lampshade this joke when she goes from "Dr. Girlfriend" to the even more preposterous "Dr. Mrs. The Monarch." She gets that ridiculous name not because the writers of the show have that little respect for her because of her gender; she gets it because in her world, regardless of a woman's abilities, that's about all the respect they get. "haha, isn't it funny that in this world we created and have total control over women are mostly just eye candy? isn't that just very insightful social criticism" feedmyleg posted:Yeah I love that they're finally having her go by Sheila more often than not. And the fact that they seem to be examining the quasi-abusive/emotionally problematic relationship Monarch has with her is very promising. It definitely seemed like in season 6 (and 5 to a degree) they're specifically trying to address their own poor history with this. they're making progress. i dont think they're raging misogynists. but part of being such Deep Nerds immersed in nerd poo poo is historically alienation from women and an overly bro culture (thinking here about when i was playing d&d in the late 80s with my other little male nerdlinger friends) and while i appreciate they are trying to change this it doesn't mean we can't criticize the way the show was done in the past imo brocks relationship with warriana is indicative of this shift. he's getting totally topped by an extremely butch wonder woman type who isn't played as a lesbian. that's a funnier way to explore gender roles in sex as compared that to molotov cocktease who, yeah. yeesh and how shore leave has gone from over the top camp stereotype to basically just homosexual brock Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 18:40
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luxury handset posted:i'm not saying she is a weak character but it is notable that she is directly used to titillate the monarch (and the audience) and her identity largely revolves around him, which is complicated in a world where Sidekick is a viable career path Her titillation of the Monarch gets a pass from me because she's his wife, and she seems to enjoy it. She loves her outfit and the attention it gets from Monarch. And it's not like Monarch made her wear that; in fact, he didn't know what her new outfit was going to look like until she showed it off for him. Also, she's not a sidekick. That was the whole point of the episode "Shadowman 9 in the Cradle of Destiny." She and Monarch are a duo: equal partners in their crime... uh, team? Really, her identity only revolves around Monarch in two areas: her villain name, and her butterfly-themed outfit that she wore for a few seasons. It seems to me that you're offering common feminist criticisms with no regard to whether or not there is a valid, in-universe reason for the things you're criticizing to be the way they are. It reminds me of the people who complained that the film Dunkirk focused way too much on white men: yes, there were no major female characters, and none of color, either; taken in a vacuum, that's an issue. But then when you look deeper into what the evacuation of Dunkirk was like, you realize that 99.99% of those involved were, for obvious reasons, white men. So it doesn't pass the Bechdel Test, but then again, why should it? Now... all of that being said, it's entirely possible that I'm giving Doc and Jackson too much credit, and that their treatment of females in the show isn't a comment on the hyper-masculine, female-free culture that Rusty grew up in, but is in fact just a side effect of their own apathy or ambivalence toward female characters in this type of show. I personally think it's the former, but I will admit, I'm biased.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:50
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tarlibone posted:Her titillation of the Monarch gets a pass from me because she's his wife, and she seems to enjoy it. i'm talking more about how we are shown the monarch and dr. mrs. the monarch's sex life multiple times, often for comedic effect, but still "yer a bum, rock" tarlibone posted:Now... all of that being said, it's entirely possible that I'm giving Doc and Jackson too much credit, and that their treatment of females in the show isn't a comment on the hyper-masculine, female-free culture that Rusty grew up in, but is in fact just a side effect of their own apathy or ambivalence toward female characters in this type of show. I personally think it's the former, but I will admit, I'm biased. it can be commentary on that universe while also being kind of one-handed they did say they had to get rid of kim, trianna's friend because of all the creepy questions they were getting (and also because her character was a dead end). which, good for you for doing that, but also what purpose did she serve in the first place really? i think the strongest piece of evidence in my favor is if you contrast the show then versus the show now and how they have matured, so to speak, in their depictions of race, class etc.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:56
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I love Venture Bros but even up to Operation PROM the writing was not always great about women, even when the show itself seems aware of that. The Spanish Brundlefly gag is great, but the Spanish Fly joke itself, while arguably in character for Rusty, is also uncomfortable to watch
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Jul 12, 2018 19:07
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Even when the show is bad, they still have some self awareness. When Sheila runs away to Phantom Limb and The Monarch comes after her, he talks about how he made her The Monarch's and she clearly gets upset about how that sounds. So it's not like they didn't realize what they were writing was misogynist and lovely. And yeah, she didn't get a real name until much later, but neither did most of the other characters. The only clue we have as a name for The Monarch is a throwaway line during that scene where Rusty blows Underbheit's jaw off.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:16
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luxury handset posted:i think the strongest piece of evidence in my favor is if you contrast the show then versus the show now and how they have matured, so to speak, in their depictions of race, class etc. This is true. Things are better. At the beginning, this show was a parody and then a deconstruction of JQ, a show largely devoid of strong female characters. As deconstructions do, it took that starting point and drew it to a logical outcome. For that to work, you have to stay close to JQ's setup, and an important part of that was the (now) notable lack of women. And we see how not even having a mother around ended up loving up Rusty (and Hank and Dean, for that matter). That's my point: they're trying to show what that kind of life would do to a person, and what that kind of world would be like. And to do that, you really do need to hold close to the source material, and part of that means NO GIRLZ ALLOWED!!!!1 In the last few seasons, though, I think VB has moved beyond a simple parody/deconstruction. The show really has taken on a life of its own, starting in Season 4 but especially in Season 5, and as this has happened, we're seeing more and better portrayals of women and gays. Also, when Rusty does something racist ("Just because he's black, that doesn't mean he has 'the shining'"), the joke is on Rusty. We're not thinking, "Yeah, you tell 'em, Rust! Make America Venture Again!!" We're thinking, "Jesus Christ, dude, what the hell?" It's like when Hank asked the Alchemist about his "dingus." The one being made a fool of wasn't Al, it was Hank, and Jefferson Twilight was incredulous: "Hank, aren't you just a little ashamed of your ignorance?" To a certain extent, I think that, in-universe, this mistreatment of women is... well, it's not good, but it just is. For that to change, there would need to be a feminist uprising of some kind in the world of costumed heroes and villains. And with Sheila around, that might not be totally out of the question in a few seasons. Some time around the year 2023 or so.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:19
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Cojawfee posted:And yeah, she didn't get a real name until much later, but neither did most of the other characters. The only clue we have as a name for The Monarch is a throwaway line during that scene where Rusty blows Underbheit's jaw off. Bit of a tangent, but I thought The Monarch was the one who blew off Underbheit's jaw (in an attempt to kill Rusty) and Rusty was wrongly accused of it.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:20
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Mraagvpeine posted:Bit of a tangent, but I thought The Monarch was the one who blew off Underbheit's jaw (in an attempt to kill Rusty) and Rusty was wrongly accused of it. Yeah, I guess it was The Monarch who did it.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:24
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Cojawfee posted:Man, Season 1 is full of toxic language. Yeah as much as I love some episodes it might sadly be time to just drop it as the introduction to people new to show.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:25
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Hope you brought your sunblock, Captain. Preferably SPF 5000, because I'm about to have a fun-time, eating sunshine, on a stick! ---- Also later Captain Sunshine asks Hank if he also lied about being in the Circus. Dick Grayson reference?
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Jul 12, 2018 19:28
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Ajaxify posted:Also later Captain Sunshine asks Hank if he also lied about being in the Circus. Dick Grayson reference? Almost certainly.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:34
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I'm doing my rewatch now (up to Butterglider) and, naw, its fine. Maybe give a content warning to someone sensitive to hearing "retard" or "gay" used as a synonym for lame, but honestly its not really hateful. You shouldn't talk like that now, sure, but the dialogue still holds up as clever and funny. Especially compared to how much other media from that time used harsher language like "human being" constantly
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Jul 12, 2018 19:37
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Yeah, it's definitely done in a way not meant to cause anyone harm, but it is shocking. Especially when I'm trying to get myself not to use these terms anymore.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:39
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I mean, I guess it depends on who you're showing it to, but I always caveat the show for new people these days with a "The show's sensitivities evolve with it".
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Jul 12, 2018 19:40
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I mean the tone written for them just blurting that stuff makes them even more comical. Sort of like how the Monarch snaps out petty cusses and slights out the blue.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:41
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"Oooh, very gener- oh, this is in pesos. All these zeros are meaningless." The show has known Rust is an rear end in a top hat from day one. RandallODim fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 19:43
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I really enjoy Dr. Orpheus' lines. The way he speaks is hilarious. "There are four pudding cups in the refrigerator, you may consume the contents of one of them."
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Jul 12, 2018 19:47
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