Lettuce Play Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward

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maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Twiddy posted:

In any case, easy mode dialogue is amazing. I'm kind of annoyed I missed it in my own playthrough.

Agreed. I thought I was being all smart and mighty doing everything on hard first but now I realise there's gold in them there snarky hints.

# ¿ May 24, 2013 16:00

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:09

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Luna/Magenta. I want to see how quickly Luna goes from "Quick, Sigma! Solve the puzzle! If one person does it, everyone gets to escape!" to whatever it is she says to our intellectually-impaired beeping protagonist.

# ¿ May 28, 2013 15:44

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

That is true, but if that's the case, the obvious answer is "K and/or Clover did it", and that seems a little too obvious to be right. If K did it, I imagine that he'd try to take the left-most elevator, if only so people don't ask him, "hey, did you see a body in the elevator you came out of?"

When would he get to surreptitiously knock out Clover so that she wouldn't think to ask him that?

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 03:54

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Between the presence of a murderer and that of the real Zero hidden among them, why would you count on there even being a third round?

# ¿ Jun 3, 2013 02:57

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

xxlicious posted:

Dio's version of the story doesn't really add up: if he's really telling the truth about Quark being a backstabbing little bastard, it would be in his interests to keep quiet about it and act the villain to make other people trust Quark in order to expedite future betrayals. As it is, telling that story about Quark only serves to create reasonable doubt about his own trustworthiness by making Quark seem like the villain. He still needs other people to ally with him if he wants to gain anything from betrayals, after all.

Dio could simply physically overpower Quark in later voting stages. Even with the assumption that pairings stay the same, there's still two others to join with. Even with the actual results, there's still Luna. His goal isn't to convince Tenmyouji but everyone else.

Besides, if he really wanted Tenmyouji to vote ally again, there's are large periods of time where he and Quark are necessarily separated. It'd be a shame if something happened to Quark during AB voting round three...

# ¿ Jun 6, 2013 03:21

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Super Jay Mann posted:

I don't even think there *was* a note for Junpei to read in the japanese version, if memory serves.

Well, the japanese version did have a perfectly good homophone to abuse.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2013 20:14

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Pierzak posted:

Which means there's a 95% chance of her being actually creepy/murderous/entirely different from what we've seen.

Is it really so improbable that the characters are exactly as they seem? Dio's a prick, Clover and Alice are the worst not-so-secret-now-Clover's-gone-and-said-it agents, Tenmyouji is just a grumpy old man who appears to have known an old woman important enough to get murdered in this place, Quark's just a kid who is also somehow related to Tenmyouji, Phi has precognitive powers, K is some unoriginal amnesiac deal with armour, Luna's inhumanly innocent and places too much faith in Sigma and he just can't get anything right without outside assistance.

GeneralYeti posted:

I think Luna's going to end up being some sort of neuroscientist. One who worked for Cradle Pharamceuticals and developed the soporific that's going to kill anyone who loses the Nonary Game.

You're conflating Soporil (anaesthetic) with Tubocurarine (muscle relaxant). Considering Tubocurarine's something that saw real-world clinical use more than 70 years before Sigma was kindnapped, I think Luna didn't have much input on the substance Zero is going to kill everyone with.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2013 19:47

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

The Chinese Room's scope for context-sensitivity is strictly limited to the most recent input. What if instead of twice-cooked pork, the girl received rice? It doesn't only need a complete list of all possible input phrases and output phrases, it also needs a pre-programmed or highly unimaginative writer for the input in order for those outputs to always make sense.

It does not understand the language as it does not emulate the intermediate steps of parsing the input, determining its meaning given what has already been said or happened, choosing an idea to convey in response and writing it in some form that the reader could potentially comprehend, correctness of grammar and spelling partially optional.

maswastaken fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jun 21, 2013

# ¿ Jun 21, 2013 00:34

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Benly posted:

Because the pork is also an input, it's legitimate for the Chinese Room to have somewhere in its index a bit that says "use this book if you got a plate of pork, use that book if you got a bowl of rice" or whatever.

My problem with the Chinese Room as I've always seen it used is that it always seems to be aimed at the point of "..and therefore AIs can't really be conscious, because if so you're saying that a room full of books is conscious and that's just silly." Which is pretty point-missing because what's conscious would actually be a system including a room full of books as its ruleset, not the physical books themselves.

It if can handle all of that, then doesn't just have every phrase in Chinese but every conversation to be had in Chinese. At that point, the Chinese Room might just as well be an incinerator with a sudoku puzzle.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2013 02:09

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Male Man posted:

Guys, the Chinese Room is not supposed to be a practical implementation of AI. It's a simple thought-experiment, and any logistical impossibilities are supposed to be hand-waved away by the word "suppose".

The absurdity of the situation is really, really hard to ignore. You either have something that clearly doesn't understand Chinese because it just isn't good enough at holding a conversation or something that could lead a conversation literally anywhere it liked, having a sufficient breadth and depth of pre-written conversations to properly handle any input and context, except how it would do that is always completely arbitrary because the driving force inside it still doesn't understand Chinese. I'd grant the latter example is convincing enough that you might as well say the system understands Chinese but it's a system with incredible wasted potential because in truth it still no more understands Chinese than an encyclopedia knows things.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2013 10:11

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

I'm saying it's dumb because it's an actual comprehension of Chinese short of being something much more incredible.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2013 13:42

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Just assume Luna will choose to betray and attach the bracelet to someone else. Even better, don't assume anything, tell her you're doing it and hope the RNG gods put you in a different group from the poor sap wearing two bracelets when Luna chooses ally anyway.

maswastaken fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 1, 2013

# ¿ Jul 1, 2013 18:41

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Consider this: What kind of door would you open in each situation?

# ¿ Aug 1, 2013 21:35

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Does anyone in the group even look like Akane "Zero the First" Kurashiki?

# ¿ Aug 6, 2013 16:37

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Kay Kessler posted:

That's odd, because I remember seeing a poll that showed that this route is the first one most people do. Apparently Luna has a very winning personality.

That's because it's first option, first option, first option and finally first option. It's just being methodical.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 00:46

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Pidmon posted:

Wait, who said you have to start the game over?

It's a fairly reasonable assumption seeing how everything's gone completely to poo poo so far and the previous game was all about playing it from the start over and over again until the major plot twist happens.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2013 17:42

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Speedball posted:

This game and 999 might break almost every single one of Knox's rules, but only in letter. In spirit they uphold it. That's because they do involve the paranormal, but explain it so that it is internally consistent and almost every reveal is properly foreshadowed so there's no "cheating."

Rule 9 is the fun one when you consider everything is viewed from a specific character's perspective, as it's them who have to be the stupid friend who vocalises everything. See also: Phoenix Wright.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2013 12:13

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

quote:

GTF-FM-L-1ST - Apparently a Pony.
GTF-FM-A-PL3 - "
GTF-FM-K-1ND - "
GTF-FM-P-RTY - "
GTF-FM-G-3M5 - "
GTM-FM-D-AGN - "

In order: Twilight Sparkle, Applejack, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, Rarity and - how is that last one Rainbow Dash?

I assume they're all Friendship Models.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2013 00:10

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

It's Clover. She panicked first and there were no other marks found on Luna to indicate what else Clover did to both necessitate running away and have Luna immobilised. Furthermore, you can't see Clover's left hand in any of the footage, whereas Dio's hands are definitely empty coming into the room.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2013 13:37

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Poulpe posted:

Eesh, that's dark. It looks like Ten's hand was cut after he'd died, as there's no attempt to patch up the wound. (While there is a clear attempt to scrape the bracelet off.) But why would anybody need to get at the blood of a dead man's corpse at this point?

Clover's right hand might have the answer there. Specifically, the index finger.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2013 21:10

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

There's no way we're getting in. Whose deaths are we supposed to remember? How do we even derive login details from it/them?

# ¿ Aug 28, 2013 22:18

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

GeneralYeti posted:

Why on earth wouldn't Sigma and Phi go into an AB room and vote ally? That way, even if they get themselves stuck, they won't die and will have 9 BP and get the gently caress out of dodge when they finally find Quark's dead corpse*. The password had better be something ridiculous, because I have no clue what it could be.

Because being locked in an AB room means the killer knows where to find you.

Bifauxnen posted:

Yeah, now that you point that out it is pretty silly of them not to. Might as well get the voting out of the way so they're safe. If it was Quark, he doesn't even have any reason to play the AB game since his bracelet is off and if he finds his own bracelet it's already got 9. The only reason for him to swipe that card is to gently caress with anyone else still alive.

If Quark's the killer and he wanted his bracelet he would already have it; it's his ticket out of the complex, after all. At this point, it's either forcing them into a location where they can be found at an exact moment or just moving the damned game along.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2013 22:46

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Onmi posted:

On this note, and one earlier in the thread about being desensitized to death, Do you think Akane is like that? She lived through 5 scenario's in which she was murdered in various ways. Does she even see death like it is anymore?

Why would Akane stop using her crazy super powers after using them to save herself?

# ¿ Aug 29, 2013 21:38

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

TheOneAndOnlyT posted:

I was a bit confused as to why Fedule mentioned that he needed a "failsafe" for some situations in voting, and it seems like I wasn't the only one. I just realized what he was talking about.

Assuming that the first door choice is off the top of the screen, take a look at the flowchart and count how many different divergences we could have made from our chosen path.

Now, how many choices did we have in the vote?

Isn't it really freaking obvious that one of the round 2 door options are invalid and it's the one K explicitly stated wasn't acceptable?

# ¿ Aug 30, 2013 21:55

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Not quite. He corrected himself immediately - everyone has to die.

The only rulebreakers are Clover, Tenmyouji and Quark. Two of these have been confirmed as punished accordingly, Phi alone really hopes Quark has not been.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2013 00:43

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Looks like suicide's going to be a very valid possibility for just about every death ever now. What are the symptoms? Anything to do with that episode Sigma has maybe 5 hours from now in a different timeline?

# ¿ Oct 8, 2013 22:38

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

CottonWolf posted:

Oh my God, she's some kind of unholy crossbreed!

Clearly, all the Zeroes made her and is testing her abilities through multiple timelines before remaking humanity in her ditzy, axe-murdering image. How else could she be the common element of THREE Nonary Games?

# ¿ Oct 14, 2013 20:29

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

suddenly cats posted:

Dio might be the only one who drops the f-bomb, though; I don't remember.

Sigma does too. For example, right here:

Fedule posted:

As if I'd cry over you dummies...

# ¿ Oct 15, 2013 19:25

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Spatula City posted:

Why the hell are people picking Ally?

Because the game is seriously hammering the point that it is, absolutely, the right thing to do.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2013 22:57

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Guess K's not as altruistic as we thought.

Or smart enough to know that when 50% of all possible outcomes lead to someone else walking out, you should make sure you can go with them.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2013 22:26

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

"Virtue's Last Reward" fits this scenario equally well.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2013 22:36

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Aumanor posted:

Other possible candidates for suicide are the old lady and Alice, though there might have been some prof to the contrary I'm just not remembering right now.

Regarding the old lady: the blade was already taken out of her and hidden between the AB booths, wrapped up in a handkerchief. Old lady probably didn't do that herself.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2013 23:53

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Podima posted:

Everyone freaking out about this route - imagine playing this as your first route.

Don't have to. First I get that spoiler dump (or so it felt at the time) and then when I'm finished doing stuff on that branch I venture to the other secondary-colour doors and suddenly there's a dead woman in my AB room out of loving nowhere.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2013 22:20

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

GilliamYaeger posted:

...we get time travel. Probably. Bets on Zero being one of the characters from the future?

If Zero travelled backwards, how would they have set everything up? How would there be a true AI running on a quantum computer in this desert/moon complex? How the hell is there a moon complex? Why do we have an AI's subconscious wirelessly controlling Cockney androids? How has Radical-6 completely kicked humanity's rear end so resoundingly? Why does it sound like someone's put a lot of time in researching a cure, and that they succeeded?

Clearly, Zero's in the right time, everyone else is from the past. :tinfoil:

# ¿ Jan 5, 2014 16:16

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Alice doesn't have to explain anything; quasi-immortal Egyptian princesses should never be expected to explain things. How Tenmyouji knows about that, on the other hand, warrants query.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2014 22:48

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

That makes some sense, unfortunately. But on the other hand, if they literally do the exact same "your obvious love interest is Zero" twist in this game as they did in the first, I'd probably throw things at my monitor.

Woah, woah, woah. Phi, obvious love interest? That's K's job and you know it.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2014 16:19

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

You know, Zero III never said anything about the auto-ally rule other than that you can't have all three people in a group do it. If it's a lie, then it's the public announcements that are lying.

Unfortunately, it seems like Alice did it herself.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2014 10:23

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Kgummy posted:

A bad end that is identical to the plot lock bracelet death end. The only difference is -

- that Sigma was blackmailed into doing it and therefore narrative is on his side.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2014 18:40

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Quiet Python posted:

I dunno, this game seems set up to punch you in the nuts no matter what you do. You might as well flip a coin when it's time to vote because every choice leads to something unpleasant. Sigma can't win, he can't break even, and he can't leave the game.

Poor bastard.

Considering the first game is about a little girl brute forcing future timelines until she gets out of a death trap and live on to do all the horrible poo poo to set up said miracle, you were expecting there to be more than one good end and for us to be anywhere near stumbling into it? We haven't even found the little girl yet or really identified what's going to kill her, let alone gone back in time to beat the Death Sudoku.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2014 21:13

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:09

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

I'd like to make a crazy prediction that we'll get two within three.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2014 15:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Lettuce Play Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward

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