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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:
Sure. If the 'In on it' is referring to the murders and not something else that's going on in the background. And given that this is a nonary game, who KNOWS what's going on in the background. I mean it's still stupid as all get out for the same reasons, but just consider that Clover may not be referring to murder as the thing they are in on.
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Aug 1, 2013 22:03
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This is here to get us to doubt Luna, she's helped us twice in the past with an Ally vote, she could have killed us easily through a Betray. Even if she did know about the old womans corpse she may have not wanted to make herself suspicious. We should still ally with Luna, this is the part of every story where we are made to doubt a trusted ally, and like in those stories actual doubt will only cause pain for everyone involved.
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Aug 6, 2013 02:05
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So lets go over it. An unknown old woman is dead, She is not part of the ambidex game but Tenmyouji, who we know cut a deal with Zero, did recognize her, or at least her death brought him shock. Does that make the Old Woman Zero Sr.? If a Zero was murdered, I would think the murderer would be immediately killed by Zero Jr. Alice is dead, she was supposedly murdered, and I say supposedly because we don't know the circumstances behind her death, she could have asked to be killed for some reason. Let's assume she was murdered however because that makes the most sense. She supposedly noticed that Luna's room had been moved implicating her as the murderer of the old woman. She knows Clover personally, but otherwise seemed as lost as we were as to what's going on. Quark is missing. The last time we saw him he started ranting about how everyone was going to die, and then vanished before the AB game could begin. If Quark doesn't make it back, Tenmyouji, Alice AND Quark are all going to die here. It is incredibly unlikely that Quark is Zero Sr., as Tenmyouji seemed hellbent on getting him out of the game as quickly as possible. And there conversations seem to hint that they've got a familiar relationship before this whole incident. Luna is dead. Luna was the closest we had to a "Zero" Candidate before the last update, and now she is dead though oddly, as noted, with no blood. Beyond that she seemed entirely helpful, with no desire to ever hurt anyone let alone us. However lets assume that Clover believed that Luna was Alice's murderer. We can draw the conclusion that Clover, who if we are being honest is kind of completely loving bonkers in a dangerous situation, could very easily be the killer here. That being said, we don't know that Luna is dead, frankly it reduces all tension for the final AB game if it means allying or betraying gives us the same result. Lets go over our survivors though Tenmyouji: Recognized the Old Woman. Said SOMETHING to Clover that earned her trust, is utterly devoted to Quarks safety over even his own, to the point he would open up the No.9 door simply to get Quark out and doom himself. Clover: Knew Alice, and that was it, third time playing through a Nonary game so she's got to be feeling the pressure. In an alternate future went on to murder the cast of 999. Could be involved with Luna's murder. OR at the same time our preconceived notions of her personality from 999 could be clouding the truth Dio: A prick. Most likely the one to vote Betray against Tenmyouji, would lively have voted Betray against Quark. Seems utterly callous and prickish. Which could be a mask for ulterior motives. After all who would assume that the biggest rear end in a top hat around had redeeming qualities? Too soon to label him a murderer but personality-wise Dio is just a complete rear end in a top hat. No one knows Dio. K: A complete and utter enigma, potentially a GAU-LEM if that one cockney folk was trying to tell us that a participant is a GAU-LEM, in which case it would be easy to have one participate by wiping its memory and leaving only the instructions necessary to participate. Doesn't seem to know anyone though we haven't really gotten a chance to know K. Phi: Girl with super powers, in case anyones forgotten her crazy leaps, seemingly random with her personality, at one moment telling us to Betray Luna, and at the other moment saying her goal is to get everyone out of the Nonary Game alive, a feat that's looking less and less likely as time goes on. She seems to know Sigma, though at the same time doesn't. So the question becomes "How much about Phi is the truth, and how much is a lie?" So in summation 1 player at LEAST is Zero. 1 player POTENTIALLY is a robot. 1 player has gone missing. 2 players and an unknown person has been murdered. There are 2 Zeros, Zero Jr. and Zero Sr. We can assume that the bracelets do contain a lethal injection, since as revealed in 999 the threat of danger has to be REAL for a Nonary game to actually work. We can also assume from that, that if the bracelets do not in fact inject with poison, there is a murderer among the players. It should also be noted in regards to a bracelet, that what it's actually sensing is your heartbeat, if there was a tool to fool the sensor into assuming you were no longer alive, the bracelet would open. So Luna could very much be faking her death right now, potentially through a drug. I guess we have to see what happens.
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Aug 6, 2013 14:54
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NextTime000 posted:but the rabbit referred to itself as "Zero the Third" You're right, I was thinking Zero Jr. since the Zero participating in the game is Zero Sr. Which is weird, there should, over the course of knowledge be 4 Zeroes. The one who hosted the Nonary game where Akane, Snake and Clover participated, Akane, the one participating, and Zero the Third. So can we assume that either Akane or the one who hosted the Nonary game before hers is "Zero the First"? Or are there actually 3 Zeroes right now, we've only been introduced to The Third and been told Sr. is around. maswastaken posted:Does anyone in the group even look like Akane "Zero the First" Kurashiki? Luna has a similar style around her, this is if we're assuming that Akane is considered the first. Of course now Luna is dead.
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Aug 6, 2013 16:50
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Aumanor posted:Hmmm... Y'know, before this update I was wondering if the dead old woman might have been the original participant and if Luna could just be wearing her bracelet. Do we even know if the bracelets can be worn after they've been taken off a dead participant's body? And if yes, are they still dangerous if one's BP go down to zero? I don't know if they can be attached, but the dose would be all injected into the person who originally dropped to lethal BP, So unless the old woman was murdered through dropping her BP (And that seems unlikely if you're going to stab her) then yes, the Bracelet would still kill at Lethal BP.
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Aug 6, 2013 17:06
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Shei-kun posted:Welp. Also it's just really a dick move "Even though there's no possible way that Luna could vote Betray, and my decision of Ally/Betray is entirely meaningless to my overall BP this game, I'm going to vote Betray. Because gently caress the dead." Before doing anything ask yourself "Would Dio approve of this" doesn't matter which Dio you're thinking of in that situation they both work. And if your answer is "Yes" then you probably shouldn't do it.
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Aug 6, 2013 19:35
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Looks like Tenmyouji and Clover are about to join Alice, the old lady and Luna. No answers, only questions.
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Aug 7, 2013 18:59
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Dio is an absolute rear end in a top hat. I would have withheld Alice's bracelet if it didn't mean that K would die too, and K seems to be a remarkably up and up guy.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:11
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Bruceski posted:That depends, are the Three Laws active in this universe? I'm going to say yes, but that brings up the question of how a Robot can even function in a Nonary game where someone dying, at least in alternate timelines is a fact.
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Aug 10, 2013 05:49
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"I was you. You will be me. She knows everything" Well that's foreshadowing if I ever saw it.
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Aug 13, 2013 05:51
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miguelito posted:It's interesting how Phi's snark seems to make her more tolerable in the English version. Or at least that's my impression. Or Luna could be a Gaulem, and thus have known everything about the game. Or the Old Woman, you know the woman, the one that's dead? She probably knows everything.
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Aug 15, 2013 16:29
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Skunkrocker posted:You are mistaken. They could all be Gaulems. All of them. Including Sigma. Ever seen that episode of Sliders with Robert Englund, where everyone is a robot, except one guy but then you find out at the end he's a robot too, and he didn't know? Yeah, it's a bit like that. I think we can safely say that the old woman and Alice are human, seeing as they both pretty openly bled. Nothing says that we can only have one Gaulem though.
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Aug 17, 2013 05:17
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I see two scenario's that are likely to be the case. 1. Luna is secretly the mastermind behind it all, Clover went to confront her about it, Luna either frightened her off or told her who the Mastermind really was (causing her to run away) was then confronted by Dio and probably killed because Dio is just a dick. Then K comes and discovers it. 2. Luna is completely innocent, Clover wouldn't believe her because hey we know when Clover gets emotional she throws her all into it. Clover kills Luna immediately realizes "Oh my god I just killed Luna" and immediately runs away. Dio enters, see's the dead body and goes "Oh gently caress I do NOT want to be caught with this" and the K comes and discovers it. I highly doubt K is involved, it's not fit his character at all to want to murder Luna, if he wanted to kill people, he could simply have taken Luna's bracelet and killed Sigma and Phi that way. Instead he assured they would live, which is completely against the idea of a murderer, especially since if he was pulling an Ace, he could simply have entered the door with Dio, leaving Sigma and Phi to die, and then murder Dio. I actually lean towards scenario B. but don't rule out a as a possibility.
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Aug 19, 2013 06:46
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PlaceholderPigeon posted:Are the characters aware of the cameras? If they know about them and are actively considering avoiding incriminating exposure, then the fact that K checks his bracelet so obviously on camera makes me wonder. Again, if K is the killer, and we assume the killer wants to kill everyone, why would he not pocket the bracelet? or break it? Why would he risk his life to make it so Sigma and Phi survived? And if there's not more than one killer, why would he kill Luna? He's had nothing to do with her, wasn't her partner, and if he got a memory back that gave him a reason to kill Luna, K's personality isn't one to just hide that it seems. There's just so little evidence for K. And, no. They aren't really aware of the cameras. Unless he's Zero.
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Aug 19, 2013 14:43
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The more I think about it the more I'm convinced it's Clover, since she has motive, she believed Luna had killed Alice. I can't think of anything that would make her freak out and leave the room without Luna also leaving it, she could have potentially knocked her out, but that also seems unlikely. The thing about previous murders in 999 was that they all had a motive behind it. And the logic of that motive could be traced. I can't trace a logic for the other two but Clover is a perfect fit. EDIT: Also the Dio taking the knife under Zero's orders seems odd... Zero doesn't want the players murdered, the point of a Nonary game is for everyone to survive. There just has to be the element of real danger, and I certainly doubt that Zero would introduce that in the form of a player ORDERED to murder players, after all, how does said player know that everything's going right and not to kill the other players anymore? This is why Zero is always an observer in the game itself, to make sure it's running as smooth as possible, Of the players left alive we have K, Dio, Sigma and Phi. Let's assume that Clover, Tenmyouji and Quark are dead since they didn't enter the chromatic door. Dio being Zero himself? unlikely. If you assume it's the case it means that Zero both murdered a player (something Akane never did) and took the murder weapon. He could be like Aoi, but Aoi never directly killed anyone, he just helped move the scenario in a way that lead to Akane's true victory. K? More likely, he's very mysterious, he held up his bracelet for the camera like people pointed out, He threw Phi and Sigma into a chromatic door, which lead to the security room which would give them answers to the killer mystery. Above all he wants to keep the players alive, which is in-line with the Zero methods, which is to achieve a perfect victory. Phi could potentially be Zero, but in that case she either purposefully made it so she wouldn't remember all details, or she's faking it. Her stated goal is to get all the players out alive, which is the entire point of a Nonary game. Sigma being Zero seems to have been foreshadowed by the computer "I was you, you will be me." but unless he's a time traveler I don't see how the message could make sense. And hell this could just be conjecture, nobody forced them through that white door, they were thrown in there by K. Could K be future Sigma? Who wanted to show his younger self a message. Could K be Zero? COULD THERE BE MORE THAN ONE ZERO IN THE GAME? COULD EVERYONE BE ZERO?! I love this game... I haven't even played it but I love this game. Onmi fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Aug 19, 2013 |
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Aug 19, 2013 16:56
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Eleanore posted:You're not the first one to say this, but it keeps confusing me where people are getting the whole "The Nonary Game is for everyone to survive" thing from. The idea that a Nonary Game is designed so that everyone lives is to remember that the Nonary games purpose isn't to put a bunch of people into a contrived deathtrap, a bullet to the head does the job just as well and there's no risk of the problem surviving. Nonary Games are done for a purpose. The first was to test Morphogenetic Fields, so they had two running simultaneously. The second was run to make sure that Akane would survive the first one. But here's the kicker to a Nonary game. They don't work unless there's a REAL danger to the participants. If you just stuck 9 people into a game and told them to play, they wouldn't get anywhere, because they were never going to die in the first place. That's the entire point of Ace even being a participant in the first game and not just executed. He was the legitimate threat that ensured that a Nonary Game would work. The Death Traps being the second legitimate threat. Now make note of the current Nonary Game. There seems to be no time-limit regarding the puzzles and none of them seem lethal. That means we have to locate the real danger. We've not seen anyone killed by tubocurarine (and none of the people save for the Number 9 man had a bomb inside them in 999) now lets assume that the bracelets are actually filled with tubocurarine this time, because we can't show this off like we did with the Number 9 man to put the fear of death into the participants. There's a killer going around, and they are a player. So instead lets put this into a new statement. Someone was put into the Nonary game with the INTENT that they would kill the other players. It is THEY who are taking the roll that Ace did in the first game. Now to answer the question "Why do I say a Nonary Game is designed so that everyone will live?" I want you to look at the system this one uses. the Prisoners Dilemma. There was a lot of talk earlier in the thread that the optimal way to end the scenario is for everyone to simply Ally 3 times in a row, thus ensuring everyone would survive. Well... that's the only outcome that makes sense. Zero has again inserted themselves into the game to make sure that it is run correctly. It's designed to achieve a goal, we don't know what that goal is. And that goal can only be achieved by one means. Achieving a perfect victory. Remember, it's not good enough that the players get to the number 9 door in 999, they have to have Junpei solve the Sudoku puzzle so Akane will survive. I mean, in the "Safe" ending of 999, they make it to the furnace room, Light, Ace and Clover all die... and Akane determines that the game has failed. Even though Junpei could still solve the Furnace puzzle. Lets assume Sigma is the one being trained for something. Or that he's got to help someone, somewhen. Sigma didn't want to enter the bloody white door because Clover and Tenmyouji weren't there, despite that resulting in his own death. He's not going to accept that someone has to DIE for this game to be over. There's still the Radical-6 thing we don't know about. And the murdered old woman that Tenmyouji recognized. In fact the old woman is murdered before we have a chance to stop it. She's the Number 9 man. proof that they are in real danger. So in short, past evidence (every Nonary Game has been designed so that the participants would survive, even ACE was meant to survive 999.) lack of proof that this game is any different. And most of all, the end goal is an obvious one. In 999 the fear was that only 3-5 people could leave through the 9 door. As it turns out the door was designed so that everyone could escape. The scenario set up so that everyone can escape. Now we don't know everything about this Nonary game, even where it's set. But the ultimate victory of this game is that everyone reaches 9 points and leaves together. There's no thoughts of sacrifice, only everyone's personal desire to be free (or in Tenmyouji's case, getting Quark free and drat everyone including himself). And I see no evidence to the contrary.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:53
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Bruceski posted:The first Nonary games were for sport and definitely killing people. The only reason Ace got the idea to use it to test morphogenic fields is because he was captured and won one of those original games. Those weren't really Nonary games, those were a bunch of Nobles creating prototype Saw movies. None of those Nonary Games had a Zero.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:29
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Glazius posted:My money's on Tenmyouji taking Clover down with him. Unless we find evidence that they were drugged or something, it's a lot trickier for one person to force two people to get handcuffed to a thing than it is for one person to force one other person. Unless of course that person was a Gaulem, though in that case they would have to subvert the three laws. Or they were taken by surprise. There's blood on the scene after all.
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Aug 22, 2013 10:33
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Kay Kessler posted:I stand corrected, then. However, the fact that the bracelet's needles are still retracted leads me to believe that Quark is either still alive, or was killed by some method other than being penalized. . It could be possible to remove the bracelet. All you have to do is stop your heart beating, and the Bracelet will let go... Or really what you have to do is block your pulse, since that's probably what it's reading.
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Aug 24, 2013 11:38
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From the look of the scene, it seems like K killed Dio, since the way he's fallen he would have been in a perfect position to grasp the lance. Potentially, Dio killed him in revenge with the axe, or visa versa. I'm just going to assume that Clover wrote Dio on her leg and that the line of events is. 1. Dio corners Clover and Tenmyouji, attacks them with the knife (Hey remember when everone noticed that Dio had pocketed the Knife in the Security footage. 2. Dio handcuffs Clover and Tenmyouji together, then returns to the hall, is confronted by Sigma and Phi, and claims to have never gone anywhere. 3. Dio and K complete their room, and go to the Rec Room together afterwards, K potentially suspects Dio of killing Luna, or Dio decides he's going to continue his murders by offing K when he's alone. The first one makes the move and murders the former, but before the former dies they kill their opposite. Of course the question to me is. Is Zero Dead? Because in 999 the death of Akane lead to the route being over. Or... not in the Coffin "ending".
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Aug 25, 2013 06:55
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Eeepies posted:Sigma and Phi should place their backs to each other right now. And walk like that to the exit and get to the voting room ASAP, vote, and get out. Ah but we still have one last question. Do we vote Ally or Betray?
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Aug 25, 2013 08:02
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Also with that much blood I think we can safely say that K isn't a robot.
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Aug 25, 2013 08:52
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Overflight posted:...OK, if it turns out Dio had used the silly "blade tucked underneath the arm trick" and suddenly gets up and kills them, I will dub this the Greatest Game of All Time. Ace already pulled that nonsense in the submarine ending.
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Aug 25, 2013 10:04
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namesake posted:Lots of people assuming that K and Dio killed each other; since we're definitely missing something(s) really, really, REALLY important about what's going on here isn't it just as logical to assume that someone else is still breathing and axed K after he speared Dio? The reason I'm expecting K killed Dio is specifically because he's fallen in a position that would indicate he stabbed Dio. With no handcuffs I don't expect that Dio and K were killed so close together, yet by a single person. K was clearly attacked from behind, so unless he killed Dio, and then someone killed him, in which case we have someone we haven't ever seen in the facility. It's hard to believe that is the case. Even if Quark is alive, the killer and walking around without his bracelet AND a Gaulem to be able to use a huge axe like that, he's too physically small to reach that height. Also, Clover's hint very clearly points to Dio being the killer of her and Tenmyouji. It's probably written 016 to make it seem like a serial number, hinting to a Gaulem. That's my belief anyway. EDIT: Also, if the person's thoughtset was simply on escape, that would be easy, just voting Ally at the next Ambidex game. Someone doesn't just want to leave they want the others to die.
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Aug 25, 2013 11:31
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whitehelm posted:Don't forget to explain why Clover decided to write Dio's name backwards if you're going with that. In Dangan Ronpa the name was upside down because of Maizono's position against the wall, while Clover just wrote on her leg. I don't know, but 016 could be an ID number. I don't know what for, but there's probably been something in the script that would explain it and I'm just not remembering it.
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Aug 25, 2013 15:46
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So the way I see this, K found Tenmyouji and Clover, because he also wanted to go looking for them on the off chance of seeing if they survived. he found them handcuffed to the sink and searched the bodies, found the luminol on Tenmyouji and narrowed it down to Dio. So he called Dio to the Rec room, at which point, assuming that Dio was checked by Tenmyouji in the past, he would have figured why K was calling him. Dio attempts to murder K, K uses the last of his strength to take Dio with him. As for Quark. I think Phi both hopes he's alive because he's so young. She does have a little bit of leeway with only finding the bracelet and no body, but it looks very grim for him. Even if he got the bracelet off, he was very grim when he ran away. As for the Ambidex game beginning... I forget Zero's rules, is it set to activate on a timer? or did someone HAVE to trigger the gate?
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Aug 27, 2013 15:20
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Battle Pigeon posted:Also, from what I remember of 999, it's impossible to get the true ending the first time even if you knew the choices to make. It would be the same here. I wonder just how bad this route is in comparison to the others, and any of the information in it will be of use in other paths. This is correct. You have to see the Safe ending (in order to get the code for the Coffin) to get the true ending. This is I believe the only ending you're actually required to get.
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Aug 27, 2013 22:01
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I AM YOU YOU WILL BE ME SHE KNOWS EVERYTHING. Yeah, that pretty much sums up my thoughts that time travel of some sort is involved. Except since it's a Zero Escape game I doubt it will be as simple as time travel.
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Aug 29, 2013 15:26
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Poland Spring posted:For some reason I think this and MEMENTO MORI are intertwined in meaning, especially considering how linked the morphogenic field is with death, or the threat/fear of it. Maybe in each of these endings in which people die and things get all messed up, we find part of a code, and the fear of death transmits it to alternate pathways of possibility somehow to put in a full password. WE are the transmitters AND the receivers. And Zero, apparently Yup, of course who in-story is the receiver is still up for debate. The thing that's sticking in my mind is the final line "She knows everything." See it could be Luna, or Alice, or Clover or even Phi. Or it could be the one person who's death we currently don't know if we can influence. The old woman. We don't know why she's in this facility, why Dio (it was Dio. Let's not even pretend anyone else makes sense) killed her, or who she is. This is one of two things, it's a Number 9 Man scenario. Or it's an Akane scenario. Either she will die every time, or the end-goal is making it so she doesn't die.
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Aug 29, 2013 15:50
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Confused Llama posted:Yeah, this is a time-travel problem. As soon as you postulate someone who is able to receive information from the future, not just the past and present, you either have to say a) the future is entirely deterministic (often not a very fun story) or b) the person MUST be able to acquire information from all possible futures, not just the "real" future, because what do you mean by "real" future? On this note, and one earlier in the thread about being desensitized to death, Do you think Akane is like that? She lived through 5 scenario's in which she was murdered in various ways. Does she even see death like it is anymore?
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Aug 29, 2013 19:28
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Wouldn't that be Zero II? Zero III is the rabbit A.I. Wait I thought it was Zero Sr. not Zero II
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Aug 30, 2013 15:03
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Kay Kessler posted:Someone early in the thread speculated that since in Japan the rabbit is usually thematic for the moon, that we're in fact currently on the moon. That's... certainly a theory. It... explains Phi's jumping? But I mean how could you not notice the shift in gravity. And how would we even GET to the moon, I know the Zero Escape series is a little further into the future but launching a god drat rocket is still a task that requires a dedicated facility. It's not like there are just commercial space ship flights to the loving moon.
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Sep 26, 2013 01:26
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Shieldhill posted:I was about to point out they haven't aged, and then I remembered Ice-9. I guess it's plausible they were frozen, like the mummy. We don't even know if the Mummy is a thing. Alice may just be a girl who happens to look like the mummy. Besides, REGULAR Cryogenics would be able to preserve them probably.
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Sep 26, 2013 02:03
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Stick with the Ten route in my opinion. After all while Good People Die... I wanna be a good person.
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Sep 29, 2013 18:01
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So we're picking Betray at Dio right? I mean... really?
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Oct 13, 2013 06:40
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SingerOfW posted:Quark had a scalpel, while Alice was stabbed with a "Myrmidons" knife. Also, whoever killed Alice killed the old lady.
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Oct 13, 2013 15:48
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Bruceski posted:The knife that killed Alice probably killed the old lady, but it doesn't have to be the same person. So we have two murderers running about? Or are you going to up that to 3 since someone cuffed Tenmyouji and Clover. And here's why I suspect Dio, not only because it's cliche to think "Well he can't just be a dick bag." K called him to the Rec Room to see if he was the murderer, we found K and Dio dead, and we analyzed that scene. The way K was killed he was attacked from behind. And then had to basically step over K to stab Dio in the gut so hard he got pinned to the wall. Also, is everyone forgetting that Sigma went loving crazy on Luna's route too, where Phi started talking really fast and he passed out and - Okay. New theory. Alice has Radical 6, she killed herself. We already saw that Quark tried to take his own life due to Radical-6, if she had the knife it's entirely possible.
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Oct 13, 2013 16:27
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Well I can think of a pretty radical way to make it so we don't die. unfortunately the Axe is in the rec-room. Otherwise, you know... we could just chop our arm off before the second injection. Bleed like a stuck pig, but at least we would only probably die instead of definitely die. EDIT: Maybe K could pull a Fezzik and rip our arm off.
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Nov 3, 2013 08:58
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asymmetrical posted:It's us, we're Zero. Everyone is Zero. Also can we now put it to rest that Dio was the one who killed Luna, Tenmyouji, Clover and probably K in the last route?
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Nov 6, 2013 10:26
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I thought it was proven that he murdered at least one person, given the blood on his bracelet. I don't think we actually saw the blood on the bracelet, that's just why K dragged him to the Rec Room. Then we had Clover and/or Tenmyouji writing "Dio" backwards. As for Luna, it COULD potentially still be Clover, but Dio is the one who seems obviously malicious. And he probably killed the Old Lady too. No proof but seriously gently caress Dio.
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Nov 7, 2013 09:26
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