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It can't be this easy. Surely something terrible is about to happen.
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Sep 28, 2014 18:01
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xeose4 posted:It can't be this easy. Surely something terrible is about to happen. I stand by my statement. It's just building up for a side of extra terrible.
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Sep 29, 2014 21:56
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Forgive my disgusting ignorance, but couldn't that be Mars, given artistic liberty on the size?
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Oct 2, 2014 23:03
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Bruceski posted:No. If you're on Earth then Mars is a red dot. If you're on the Moon then Mars is still a red dot, the difference in distance is negligible when talking about the distance to Mars. For it to look that big we'd need to be on one of Mars's moons. So the only way that's Mars is if we're in Phobos or Deimos. Got it. Also I never noticed the moon looked red during an eclipse. Must be a Southern Hemisphere thing, but it at most looked vaguely yellow.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:42
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Well, this paints Dio as a likely candidate for the Alice murder. Not sure about the others, but he definitely has the motive, means and probably opportunity to do so.
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Oct 11, 2014 00:53
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Onmi posted:Also as the person who handcuffed Clover and Tenmyouji together. People forget that since it was so long ago. And he probably tried to Axe K in the back who followed up by spearing him into the wall. I'm actually not sure if he's responsible for any other murders beyond Alice's. You can justify Luna's only if you assume she caught him in the act. If not, he has no motive. You can justify his motive for Clover's murder but not for Tenmyouji's. If he was willing (and able) to kill two people at once, why didn't he do it earlier? Why wait so long? People in this game keep splitting up at the drop of a hat! And why would he want to axe K? Where's the motive? It only makes sense if he was the killer and even then, only if K confronted him about it (then he'd have no other choice but to commit murder, which didn't seem to end well for him). And nobody knows who the Old Lady is, so why kill her? I find this all too farfetched and, well, too neat for it to be a single killer. I can definitely buy that Dio kills Alice, and maybe even Clover, but the others have to be someone else's work. Quark always disappears conveniently and he's just as blond as Dio, so he might be an indoctrinated clone as well. He might be behind some of the murders that require less strength (like Luna's), though if that's the case, then all my talk about Dio's lack of motives also goes for Quark. I think Phi committed some of the murders in that path. She's proven she's able to physically overpower Dio in this path, and willing to bash his head in with a rock. It's not unfeasible that she could impale Dio, and she has the motive. No clue about the others. K seems to be the type of person who dies because they foolishly confront the killer and think themselves safe. Whether that killer was Dio or Phi, it's unknown, but the problem is that there's a difference between overconfidence and utter stupidity. If you are accusing someone of murder, surely you don't turn your back on them? And if he was clueless and was betrayed suddenly, then where's the motive? Obviously the key is the Old Lady. She's not there by chance. She plays a part in the story and the fact that she's the 10th person in the bunker further cements that one of the main cast is not actually a victim, but Zero. But is it Dio? I don't think so at all. The fact that he went in and planted a bunch of bombs means that either he's an accomplice of the real Zero, or that he was going to bomb that bunker for other reason and Zero turned his terrorism attempt into the new Nonary Game. Ugh, sorry for the  , I just went into full-on speculation mode.
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Oct 11, 2014 10:55
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Sentient Data posted:I love how at first this seems like some little throwaway joke but then you realize in the light of what was recently revealed that being blond actually is a valid reason to suspect someone. I also suspect Tenmyouji for this exact reason. Not only is he protective of Quark, but he has gray hair. The facial features don't seem to match Dio's, but he may well have been blond in his youth. There's also the fact that he knew the Old Lady. If we tie Tenmyouji, Dio, Quark and the Old Lady together, it's entirely possible they're all part of the Myrmidons, or at least allies. It's entirely possible the Old Lady kills herself so that her bracelet comes off (we've seen plenty of shots that when people die, the bracelets get cast out of the body like they're spring-loaded or something) and Dio can take her place (which probably means HER name is Dio). This means that the Nonary Game was either infiltrated by the Myrmidons early (Tenmyouji, Old Lady and Quark) or that Zero targeted the Myrmidons specifically by kidnapping them. You might think that the Myrmidons could've set this up on their own, but if that's the case, why have Dio infiltrate it? If they have everything under their control, Dio can be inserted smoothly into the picture without him needing to infiltrate the game. This means that Zero is not part of the Myrmidons, but either has an interest in them, or the Myrmidons have an interest in him/her. RelentlessImp posted:Isn't it possible that Dio killed the Old Lady and took her bracelet after sneaking in so he could join up and set the bombs? Then it confirms he's not Zero, and I doubt Zero's plan would be so sloppy so as to require something so anticlimactic as a murder nobody saw. I guess there's the "omg a body!!!" effect that Zero seems to like, but since you don't see the Old Lady's murder in every route, it can't have been part of the original plan (the way the Ninth Man's death was at the start of 999, that WAS part of the plan, so it always happened). Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Yeah, that's something I was wondering too. Dio said he snuck in, so it's possible that everyone else was still unconscious, and he moved the Old lady from Quark to Luna's room and killed her there. (Remember that Dio was in a pair with Quark, and all the pairs stared together.) The bracelets come off when someone dies, but can you take an unfastened one and re-latch it? That does require Dio to know a lot about the workings of the game in advance. But why kill the Old Lady of all people? Let's assume that he knew Sigma, K and Phi would overpower him. Why not Alice or Clover, his hated foes? Why not Luna, Tenmyouji or Quark, who are surely just as easy to kill as an old lady? The one path where we don't find the Old Lady's corpse is quite curious. It means one of three things: 1) The Old Lady is always killed, but her body is not always discovered. 2) The Old Lady is not always killed, and therefore she is still alive in that path. 3) The Old Lady is not always there. It's entire possible that, with all the time shenanigans we get up to in this game, the Old Lady simply isn't in the bunker in that path. 1) and 3) are good for maintaining continuity (how Dio infiltrated the facility), but 2) is definitely the most dramatic route. xeose4 fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 20:57
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ApplesandOranges posted:Counterpoint: What if Zero's plan required the murder to happen, and he/she planned for the old lady to die all along? She might have been the most tempting target for Dio to murder for whatever reason, and that might have been the very reason she was there in the first place. The thing is: How do you infiltrate the game without murdering someone? You can't get Zero to kidnap the wrong person, Zero is nowhere near that incompetent. You can't remove the bracelet unless the person is dead, and I highly doubt Myrmidons are so good they can preemptively duplicate a bracelet that is also linked with an AI. Might be hard to believe, but it's possible Dio didn't kill the Old Lady, and his "infiltration" was knowing he'd be kidnapped and making sure he could smuggle 4 bombs in his rear end or something before it happened. Which opens the possibility that someone else killed the Old Lady in the previous paths (my bet is on Quark, I bet he's like, 5th generation and supposed to be a super soldier from birth). EDIT: A potential explanation that fits both theories is that in some timelines, the Old Lady discovers Dio setting up the bombs and manages to disable/sabotage them, so he kills her (and that's why there are no bombs when the Old Lady is dead). I mean, Luna's a doctor with an advanced knowledge of medical technology, so why can't the Old Lady be an engineer or quantum-nuclear physicist? xeose4 fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 21:30
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ApplesandOranges posted:Something that seems to be a cog in all the theories - if Dio got his bracelet by killing the old woman, how did he get it in the timeline where we don't find her dead? He mentions infiltrating the facility, which means that somehow or another, he must have gotten a bracelet, or got it fixed onto him. It's entirely possible Dio didn't literally infiltrate the game. It's possible that he was kidnapped just like the others, but he knew that it would happen (perhaps because Zero got to Quark and Tenmyouji first), and therefore made a plan to bomb the Nonary Game by smuggling the bombs into the facility. This means that it's not Dio the outsider, but the Old Lady. This theory does make sense with all the cloning. If the Myrmidons knew that Zero's next target was going to be one of the Left clones, it's trivially easy for another clone to swap clothes with the target and allow himself to be captured.
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Oct 12, 2014 02:25
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maswastaken posted:The first Zero didn't need a plan; she'd already seen its execution and simply did it again. Why should Zero Senior be any different? Because we've already seen that twist before! not posted:I don't buy that the whole nonary game wasn't set up by the Myrmidons. The problem is that the Myrmidons being behind everything doesn't add up. Why no bombs when we find the Old Lady's corpse? What's the point of having a lethal game and putting one of your own agents in peril (remember that in one of the paths, Dio actually dies)? Obviously Zero is fully aware of the Myrmidons, but I think s/he's a neutral party in the conflict (hence why s/he brings Clover and Alice) and wants to see what comes out of the elements s/he mixed into the game. Dio wouldn't feel so self-congratulatory in this last ending if he had been in on the whole thing from the start. He makes it sound like he braved a lot of peril to do what he did. If the Myrmidons had been in on it, he would've been in significantly less danger.
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Oct 12, 2014 09:15
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not posted:I don't think the Myrmidons would particularly care about losing one of their clones; villains not caring about their minions isn't exactly uncommon in fiction, and it's demonstrated they're willing to sacrifice people. The encrypted message is probably from Zero to Dio, as a way to say "you are here because I want you to be" and then giving him some sort of taunt that furthers Zero's plans. There's definitely something there with the theory about Sigma and Phi being a pair, especially given their names. It's entirely possible they have transcended the usual sender-receiver relationship, and instead developed a time-travelling morphogenetic symbiosis. Wow that's a sentence I never thought I'd type. Ever. Clover is just there because of her association with Alice's group. Clearly Zero wants someone in the game associated with the Myrmidons and someone who opposes them. Though speaking out of universe, she's there because she was a fan favourite and has a long-standing tradition in being part of Nonary Games. Not sure I follow the Schrodinger's cat analogy with the bunker. The key point of the Schrodinger's Cat problem is the relationship between the external observer and the impossibility of determining what is happening inside until the inside is observed. If Zero is part of the cast, then it's like having a camera inside Schrodinger's box, it nullifies the entire point of the exercise. Instead, I wager the Schrodinger aspect is related to all the time-travelling morphogenetic shenanigans. We've seen this happen with Alice: when we Ally, she Betrays, and when we Betray, she Allies. Now that is Schrodinger's mindfuckery at work, and it gets further hammered in with Phi's vengeful Latin-quoting. This will probably become important later on as we start to actually exploit this morphogenetic stuff to get what we want.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:15
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not posted:...Of course none of this has been foreshadowed so it's certainly wrong. This is very interesting, but the main problem is that A) we don't know what the winning condition is, and B) there aren't multiple instances of this occurring simultaneously. Even if you take into account the hopping between timelines, it's still all happening the same bunker with the same set of people. In order for the computer theory to work, we'd need to have a lot of similar bunkers with similar experiments happening so that the computer knows which set of people meet the winning criterion. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Okay, so you think that the cast for the game includes three Myrmidons (Ten, Quark, Dio), two spies trying to take down the Myrmidons (Clover, Alice), two mysterious characters who have consciousnesses that can hop universes (Sigma, Phi), an Obvious Spoiler Character (Q), and a character whose connection with the Old Woman's Body is uncertain (Luna)? It's possible that the Old Lady is allied with the Myrmidons (because Tenmyouji knows her) and that Phi is against them (given her knowledge of the Myrmidons and her excessive animosity towards Dio). We have no idea what K and Luna's allegiances are, but they could easily be "neutral third parties" (along with Sigma) to balance the group. If Phi is aligned with Sigma, that seems like an advantage for the anti-Myrmidon crowd, so I wouldn't be surprised if K or Luna ended up being secret Myrmidon sympathisers.
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Oct 12, 2014 14:29
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Blasmeister posted:I suspect people voting for things where it's unlikely to lead to anything interesting are like me and wanting to 'clean up' the list by getting the non-options and likely game overs out of the way. Yup, this is me. Let's just get the dangling threads over with.
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Oct 16, 2014 16:49
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Welp, that's one loose end taken care of. I kinda wish it had been less anticlimactic. There's definitely something about Quark, how the game doggedly refuses to reveal what happens to him after he disappears. It's also interesting to note that, unlike Alice back in her path, Clover did not suffer from Schrodinger's Vote in this branching path.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:25
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Finally Clover doing something useful! You go girl. I thoroughly enjoy Dio not getting away with his bullshit. I like it when stories have the smug villain fail. The more spectacularly, the better.
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Nov 18, 2014 01:31
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I find the whole pill thing to be thoroughly unnecessary. What kind of spy organisation keeps the cyanide pill in his person? What happens if you run against enemy agents who are not incompetent enough to just hand it to you? That's not how suicide pills work. You're supposed to have it implanted in a fake tooth that you can slowly and deliberately nudge off with your tongue (so that it doesn't come out on its own normally) and then bite on it to release the cyanide. And it's supposed to be that specific poison because cyanide compounds typically release cyanhydric acid gas, which, when inhaled, causes death extremely swiftly (and it's rather difficult to prevent unless you have the antidote literally at hand).
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Nov 20, 2014 01:23
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:It's meant to reinforce the fact that Dio is an idiot. It's pretty glaring how incompetent both organisations are. I like how clever the game is at some things (like using the game itself as part of the narrative), but I dislike how lazy some of the story decisions are, where they get to point A (Dio captured) to point B (Dio dead) through the most aggravating route (everyone involved is incompetent). I mean, there is so much research done in this game for the most abstract, theoretical and philosophical things, but none whatsoever for the practical stuff that builds verisimilitude.
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Nov 20, 2014 02:36
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This is the kind of thing I don't like about this game. There's no rhyme or reason as to what changes between timelines beyond "whatever the game can use to berate the player for their choices." That's tacky game design. I mean, the game does enough things pretty well that this type of forced nonsense feels really out of place.
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Dec 3, 2014 01:30
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dotchan posted:Ah, yes, the Spec Ops: The Line philosophy of game writing: "You're a terrible person for buying/playing/liking this game!" Spec Ops: The Line had an actual point: it deliberately disguised itself as a mindless war-shooter clone and then berated you for liking those. There was a logic there that made perfect sense, though you could definitely argue about its execution. This game never pretends to be anything but what it is, it goes as far as to call itself "good people die" and presents a pretty morally gray situation throughout it. What's the point in changing things so that the player is always wrong?
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Dec 3, 2014 03:42
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KittyEmpress posted:All you guys freaking out over how the game is loving trash and loving with us seem kinda silly. I don't think anybody is reacting that way. For my part, I was just let down that the game would stoop to such a cheap trick for "shock value" when it's proven it's smart enough to do better than that. My feelings are like a teacher who just caught a smart student cheating on a test. I'm not mad, I'm disappointed. 
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Dec 4, 2014 23:52
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Lord Gorchnik posted:Alright, my question to the thread is how would you do it differently then the author did? Is there a system, mechanic, or other form of writing/explanation that could be used to make it less "bullshit" and make your choices matter regardless of whether you pick ally/betray. It's pretty easy, actually, but it depends on where the game wants the time plot to go towards. If it's going to be explicitly acknowledged that going back in time to change a decision somehow affects something we have no control over (which is what I'd do if I was the writer), then basically do what Clarste suggests in this post. If it's not like that, then have it become clear at the start that what we're doing is quantum jumping and that there's a universe with a double betrayal but there's nothing to be gained from that. In fact, you could easily get this out of the way with the first choice itself. The first time you rewind to change your vote from Ally to Betray, reveal the double betrayal and have Sigma be like "Yeah take that!", and then have things become gray or washed out, Sigma feeling sick and passing out, screen fades to black and then you are taken back to the "choose where you want to rewind" screen, with the progress flowchart untouched (giving you a clue that the scene you just saw didn't actually happen). When you choose the scene and you hit betrayal again, this time the character chooses ally and the game proceeds as normally.
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Dec 9, 2014 13:22
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U-DO Burger posted:I've got a business that does that like four blocks from where I live but I haven't gone yet because you need a group of at least 6 people and all my friends are spread out all over the place Knock-out gas is the only friend you need.
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Mar 17, 2015 06:25
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No you people have it all wrong. Ally gets you the bad end and Betray is a plot lock that advances the overall plot further. It's the opposite of what you'd expect. So I voted Ally.
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Mar 27, 2015 07:05
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I stand by my previous statement. Next scene, Sigma's going to get a drill jammed into his face or something, and then we'll get a Game Over. There's no way this game would let a nice action go unpunished.
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Apr 6, 2015 11:34
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I am thoroughly amazed at our continued "alive" status.
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Apr 6, 2015 16:00
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Well, at least this explains why a government agency would put up with Clover's really obvious incompetence. Having an almost unstoppable way of receiving information is well worth fielding a profoundly incompetent agent. I think now we know how to unlock that plot lock where Sigma gets penalised. Also, a common side effect of anticholinesterase inhibitors is the SLUDGE effect. Salivation, Lacrimation (crying), Urination, Defecation, Gastrointestinal upset and Emesis (vomiting). We're in for a fun ride. 
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Apr 9, 2015 23:09
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She said she was going to infiltrate the Nonary Game, so for all we know she was going to take Lotus's place. As for now, she was kidnapped while on her house strategizing with Clover. Maybe she was multitasking and also trying out some cosplay outfits or something. 
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Apr 10, 2015 19:27
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I knew it. Freaking called it. Wasn't a drill to the face, but this is what happens when you ally. Also, interesting to note: Among the pile of dead bodies, K and Quark are missing. While I'm sure Quark is missing to avoid showing the blood-covered corpse of a child, it's interesting to note that we've seen K dead in a previous branch, but not in this one. Perhaps his suit makes him immune to Radical-6, on account of having some sort of air filtration mask?
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Apr 10, 2015 20:53
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Super Jay Mann posted:We're all one step removed from those assholes in Minority Report who prosecuted people for future crimes they had yet to commit. We're morphogenetic assholes.
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Apr 12, 2015 00:57
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Considering that child is the clone of a terrorist leading some sort of world-cleansing, I don't feel too guilty about it. Also, there's literally no way we're walking out alive. We're gonna get murderised in the next update.
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Apr 14, 2015 22:21
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Didn't Dio revealed that Quark was also a clone in that ending where we get all the plotdump from him? Or am I just projecting because they're both blond? Guess, I should keep a better track of my theories vs. what's actually true.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:05
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Welp, that shows me not to assume people are related just because they have the same hair colour.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:17
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Huh. I expected a lot more death.
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Apr 15, 2015 22:56
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Blinus posted:I'm interested to know, those of you who have not played the game/don't know what happens, who do you think Zero is? It's Phi. She's too calm and collected about everything. She's probably got some personal reason why she's doing all this (like Akane), but I'm not sure if present Phi is Zero, or if it's a Phi from the future/past/alternate timeline.
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May 8, 2015 22:42
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I like this turn of events. The thing is, what Quark and Ten are doing is brilliant. If one assumes that Ten's primary, overriding goal is the safety of Quark (and we assume Quark's safety lies in leaving the facility via the Number 9 door), then what Ten and Quark are doing right now is exactly what they need to do to get out. Because they have such a high BP count, the default assumption of whoever opposes them is to Betray, either to reduce their BP or to prevent them from gaining any more. The only way Ten can get Quark out of the facility is by convincing someone to Ally. And to play it safe in case their persuasion failed, they'd have to choose Betray, so that if Sigma Betrayed, at least they wouldn't lose any points. So I'm voting Ally. Let's watch the fireworks! 
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Dec 4, 2015 20:53
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