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It still has some glaring flaws in engine simulation (mixture behaves oddly sometimes, constant speed props don’t really work quite right, turboprops are almost completely wrong,) but the flight model is actually pretty good IMO. In the carbon cub, you can hold the brakes, use the prop wash to pick the tail up, hold it there on the roll, and then yank flaps and will it off the ground into a completely unsustainable climb with a bit of practice. Thing is a complete blast, and I’m super excited for the Shock Ultra, even if it has a stupid Rotax.
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Aug 1, 2020 22:21
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I don't think turbo props have ever been modelled properly in an MS flight sim. I rarely ever fly them and don't really know enough about engines to know but I've seen a fair few people complaining about them over the years. I'm really looking forward to loving about in that carbon cub. cubs are awesome.
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Aug 1, 2020 22:30
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ok gently caress it here's what I think of the 152 flight model: I am pleasantly surprised at how accurate it feels! All the numbers are bang-on and takeoffs and landings feel realistic. Climb rate and cruise speed are a little higher than I'm used to, not unrealistically so but basically the best-case scenario from the POH. I have seen similar numbers before on a 152 with a brand-new engine. So it's essentially simulating a factory-new plane instead of a 40 year old one that's been beat on by 1000 students. Fair enough I guess. The plane takes the right amount of time to get up to takeoff speed and lifts off when it should. If I leave my home airport and climb at Vy, I hit 500 feet just as I'm centered over a particular waterway that is accurately modeled in the sim, exactly as I do real life. The plane sinks at the correct rate in a forward slip and floats in the flare when you come in too fast. It even stalls correctly: If you sneak up on the stall in a real life 152, it will just sort of settle into an unhappy nose-up sink with the horn going and the controls mushy, but it won't break over the edge. Be more prompt about raising the angle of attack and the nose will fall much more dramatically. Both of these behaviors work correctly in the sim. I even got it into a very realistic-feeling spin by deliberately stalling uncoordinated. This is significantly better modeling than X-Plane's Carenado 152 and it's not even in the same league as the behavior of light planes in FSX. Also, the ATC is vastly better than anything I've used before; it knows what calls you could plausibly be making at each point in the flight and pops up a window so you can choose. The ATC correctly hands you off from one controller to another as you pass through different airspace. If they put in a speech-recognition engine and some fuzzy logic it would be incredible. The frequencies are all correct; without thinking about it, I tuned in my local ATIS on the radio as part of the startup and a few seconds later the speech synthesis read out the real-world current METAR. It's really something else. However, the taxiways at my airport marked C and D in the sim are actually J and K in real life. Also the ATC says "wind" like winding a clock. Therefore I give the simulator a 0/10, have already uninstalled it, and will be writing a letter of protest that I will send to Microsoft and share on AVSim post-hate
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Aug 1, 2020 22:31
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Combat Pretzel posted:Well, I guess you're not a real pilot. Flight models in sims are always a funny business. I haven't flown IRL so I have no comparison, but for P3D and XP the premium 172s (I've forgotten the brands, not carenado) feel really different. P3D version is like driving a car in the air. XP is a lot more wobbly and needs more manual attention. And like every single payware plane ever made they both assure that they have been tested by the world's greatest pilots to be 100% realistic. I general I tend to enjoy the XP model more than P3D model especially with GA planes.
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Aug 1, 2020 22:54
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Sagebrush posted:Also, the ATC is vastly better than anything I've used before; it knows what calls you could plausibly be making at each point in the flight and pops up a window so you can choose. The ATC correctly hands you off from one controller to another as you pass through different airspace. This is a big one for me! I love having some ATC interaction but not enough that I'd go to VATSIM etc. What are you comparing the ATC to? P3D also passes you when you change airspaces.
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Aug 1, 2020 22:59
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Sagebrush posted:Am I allowed to talk about the beta? Because I got in and I really want to talk about the flight model (it's GOOD) but I don't want to get carted away by the microsoft secret police just spill the beans, it's less than three weeks to release lol
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Aug 1, 2020 23:01
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lobsterminator posted:This is a big one for me! I love having some ATC interaction but not enough that I'd go to VATSIM etc. why not?
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Aug 1, 2020 23:03
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sellouts posted:why not? The actual human interaction scares me.
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Aug 1, 2020 23:04
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Fair enough!
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Aug 1, 2020 23:06
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someone should definitely go fly above hurricane isias and take some pictures if it gets a decent eyewall
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Aug 1, 2020 23:08
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sudo rm -rf posted:someone should definitely go fly above hurricane isias and take some pictures if it gets a decent eyewall I used to do this in x-plane anytime a hurricane came ashore. Granted it was just a very windy storm in the game, but still fun to try and fly a 172 through it. Getting real excited, I've even heard that it simulates turbulence over mountains, so bush flying in Alaska with the cub is going to be my jam.
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Aug 1, 2020 23:16
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Yeah I've yet to see some real Alaska snowy mountain bush flying yet and frankly I'm pissed wtf is you doin
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Aug 1, 2020 23:25
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Here's a decent one but not nearly bushy enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haYruUbkkr4
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Aug 1, 2020 23:29
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Google Butt posted:Here's a decent one but not nearly bushy enough What are you talking about? The bushes are stonking huge in this one. 
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Aug 2, 2020 00:06
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B U S H
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Aug 2, 2020 00:15
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yeah the complaints about "TREES TOO BIG!!" are...well...not unfounded. They look nice and puffy from the air but they are definitely bigger than real life on the ground. I tried to land on a big street near my house and the autogenerated trees in the median were so big they covered up about half the road. literally who gives a poo poo though e: temperature effects on air density are simulated. I put myself at L09 (Death Valley) and set it to 105 degrees and the plane took at least twice as much runway to lift off and climbs like a turd. A+ e2: hahahaahaa hell yes there is mountain wave turbulence. hell yes Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Aug 2, 2020 |
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Aug 2, 2020 00:17
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Sagebrush posted:
Makes me wonder if they can do air currents for gliding halfway decently.
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Aug 2, 2020 00:42
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Can they simulate the forbidden love between a pilot and a co-pilot during long flights?
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Aug 2, 2020 01:30
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Can they implement dynamic tree scaling based on altitude / distance? Like scale up bigger trees in the distance and reduce to 1.0 scale when you’re taxiing up close.
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Aug 2, 2020 01:38
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Someone will replace all tree models with 2d sprites in 8k resolution, charge 180$ for it and make bank
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Aug 2, 2020 01:41
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Considering how accessible the MSFS series is meant to be, I'm surprised the tutorial/pilot training stuff is so barebones in 2020. I seem to remember FSX having a comprehensive lesson system, with a mix of text lessons that explained the basic elements of flight (like aerodynamics, your plane's various systems, etc), alongside guided in-cockpit lessons and your more traditional tutorial missions. Was that stuff added in a later version or something? From the videos i'm seeing online, it looks like FS2020 has just 8 basic tutorial missions, and they seem to use terminology and reference systems without much explanation as to what they are. I really expected them to do better than this on that front.
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Aug 2, 2020 03:31
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Fs2020 seems basically early access
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Aug 2, 2020 03:33
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Google Butt posted:Fs2020 seems basically early access for some reason
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Aug 2, 2020 04:56
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lobsterminator posted:Can they simulate the forbidden love between a pilot and a co-pilot during long flights? I want a flight attendant addon.
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Aug 2, 2020 05:03
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Just come play shared cockpit with me and I will speak sweet nothings into your ear. Several posters here will agree
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Aug 2, 2020 05:52
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Considering how accessible the MSFS series is meant to be, I'm surprised the tutorial/pilot training stuff is so barebones in 2020. I seem to remember FSX having a comprehensive lesson system, with a mix of text lessons that explained the basic elements of flight (like aerodynamics, your plane's various systems, etc), alongside guided in-cockpit lessons and your more traditional tutorial missions. Was that stuff added in a later version or something? From the videos i'm seeing online, it looks like FS2020 has just 8 basic tutorial missions, and they seem to use terminology and reference systems without much explanation as to what they are. I really expected them to do better than this on that front. I think we'll see the community step up and provide this in short order.
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Aug 2, 2020 08:23
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How customizable will FS2020 be? I feel like in this day and age things would get locked down and require approval etc before people can use poo poo. Seems like a total MS thing to do.
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Aug 2, 2020 10:11
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Considering how accessible the MSFS series is meant to be, I'm surprised the tutorial/pilot training stuff is so barebones in 2020. I seem to remember FSX having a comprehensive lesson system, with a mix of text lessons that explained the basic elements of flight (like aerodynamics, your plane's various systems, etc), alongside guided in-cockpit lessons and your more traditional tutorial missions. Was that stuff added in a later version or something? From the videos i'm seeing online, it looks like FS2020 has just 8 basic tutorial missions, and they seem to use terminology and reference systems without much explanation as to what they are. I really expected them to do better than this on that front. I think they're responding to the view that no one does tutorials, and either looks up stuff on YouTube or already has some place in the community to ask
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Aug 2, 2020 10:22
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The tutorials seem really well done, with well voiced acting, and teaching important stuff. It just acts like you already know the language used in flying. It could use a glossary.
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Aug 2, 2020 10:30
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Lord Stimperor posted:I think they're responding to the view that no one does tutorials, and either looks up stuff on YouTube or already has some place in the community to ask Yeah, I was going to say, back in the day they didn't have youtube. These days people just go straight there.
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Aug 2, 2020 11:04
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I dunno youtube is cool but for this I was really hoping for a lot of in-depth in-game tutorials
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Aug 2, 2020 11:23
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Funso Banjo posted:The tutorials seem really well done, with well voiced acting, and teaching important stuff. It just acts like you already know the language used in flying. It could use a glossary. Okay, it's nice if the missions that are there are good. The video I watched just sorta skimmed through them and the first thing it showed was the voice saying "this is the attitude indicator. as the name suggests, it shows your current attitude." And I was just like oh come on. I'm glad the missions are comprehensive but I do think it would benefit a lot from the inclusion of supplemental material to learn from like FSX had.
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Aug 2, 2020 11:28
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Okay, it's nice if the missions that are there are good. The video I watched just sorta skimmed through them and the first thing it showed was the voice saying "this is the attitude indicator. as the name suggests, it shows your current attitude." And I was just like oh come on. Background: I don't have any flight or more than an hour of flight sim experience, so I was hoping the tutorials would be pretty in-depth, sort of like how I remembered FSX being from when I installed it on sale a while ago. I am painfully casual. They're...not terrible, but it's not like the sort of structured program I guess I was expecting. As you mention, it either assumes you know a few things already (like what attitude is), or mentions them fast enough that you'll probably need to supplement your knowledge later. There's also a couple instances where they assume knowledge of certain features (like the "nav log", which shows your flight plan, sort of) by saying "Now open the nav log!" without telling you how to actually do that. Or there's a VFR lesson where the instructor tells you to follow the highway, and by the time she says that, there's no highway to see. Things like that. Sometimes the missions are a little finicky - for instance, when it's teaching you how to fly a traffic pattern, if you don't make the turns where it's expecting you to, you can fail the mission even though you made the turns and landed successfully. You can turn on mission objectives so there's a giant floating arrow in the sky where you should turn, which helps. The other problem I've found is that there's a big gap in between what the lessons teach you and being able to exist on your own. The lessons teach the basics - takeoff, landing, turns, climbing, very limited navigation (a VFR flight with one waypoint pre-determined). I can do all that now, which is great! But if I want to learn how to navigate by radio or anything like that, I'm on my own. I had to watch a bunch of youtube videos about what a VOR is and how to twiddle the dials to teach myself. Another example: I've spent the last few hours reading the 650 page user manual for the G1000 and figuring out how to use it by trial and error (mostly error), because there's absolutely no information on how to do that in-game. All the above is to say that, looking back on it, I guess I was expecting some kind of fully self-contained learning framework that took me from zero to hero, which I guess wasn't very realistic of me. That said, I have to admit, it is kind of neat that I can learn things in actual reference materials from the real world and transfer them to the sim. I guess I was just expecting more hand-holding. 
Nietzsche fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Aug 2, 2020 |
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Aug 2, 2020 15:56
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I have PC gamepass, so I guess I own this game on the 18th. All I have is a Thrustmaster HOTAS 4 that serves mainly for Elite Dangerous duty, any idea how much of a disadvantage I’ll be at without a yoke and button box and pedals and all that? I’d imagine it should still be pretty playable?
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Aug 2, 2020 16:23
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Yea, the learning center stuff was more than just some supplemental material for fsx really, it was a major feature that was worked on and carried through and improved from like fs2000 and advertised as such. “Fly with real pilot , rod machado!!” It’s kind of a little app unto itself. it’s still a great learning tool imo and it’s not like you need the insane graphics new game hotness for it since you’re just going to be focusing on the actual educational tool, ideally anyways. Its pretty ageless in that way like most educational stuff can be. I mean I was reading a lot when I went trough it. I think it would be nice to see it but yeah it’s more than just adding a tutorial and I can see why they would maybe want to focus on other stuff.
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Aug 2, 2020 16:29
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i used to play flight sims on a logitech extreme 3d pro that had so much stick wobble that i couldn't correct it with deadzone without dropping effectively half the travel. That was more than good enough to gently caress around in fsx. Before that i played on keyboard and still had a blast.
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Aug 2, 2020 16:30
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The game isn't out yet and what is in the alpha/beta is still clearly missing features that are in the trailers! For all we know they have an entire PPL course written and just not implemented in the public builds yet. (not likely, but you know what I mean) Also, one of the four main tabs on the home screen is Marketplace so I guarantee there will be plenty of tutorials and missions available for download after launch even if they aren't in the release version. Jim Silly-Balls posted:All I have is a Thrustmaster HOTAS 4 that serves mainly for Elite Dangerous duty, any idea how much of a disadvantage I’ll be at without a yoke and button box and pedals and all that? I’d imagine it should still be pretty playable? No disadvantage whatsoever. I started out with a regular logitech wingman and probably played 500 hours of flight sims with just that. Didn't even have a separate throttle until I was in grad school. These days it's even easier to get away with a simple controller because the cockpits are all 3D and clickable, so you don't have to bind a million keyboard commands. The only stuff you really need on a stick/HOTAS to fly a pattern in a small piston plane are pitch/roll/yaw/throttle axes, flaps up/down buttons or axis, wheel brakes, and some way of looking around like a hat switch. You can also get away without the yaw axis if you just turn on the rudder assist and bind two buttons for L/R ground steering. If you have an extra axis, bind it to propeller pitch or mixture. Everything else you'll have time to do by clicking buttons in the cockpit. FWIW I am still having some trouble binding all my devices properly (beta woes) so to admire the scenery I've been pootling around with an XBox controller, and after a little sensitivity adjustment I've had no problem taking off and landing with it and I have all the assists disabled and realism set to maximum. so Nietzsche posted:The other problem I've found is that there's a big gap in between what the lessons teach you and being able to exist on your own. The lessons teach the basics - takeoff, landing, turns, climbing, very limited navigation (a VFR flight with one waypoint pre-determined). I can do all that now, which is great! But if I want to learn how to navigate by radio or anything like that, I'm on my own. I had to watch a bunch of youtube videos about what a VOR is and how to twiddle the dials to teach myself. Another example: I've spent the last few hours reading the 650 page user manual for the G1000 and figuring out how to use it by trial and error (mostly error), because there's absolutely no information on how to do that in-game. The flight sim goons (well, mostly Vahakyla) are really good about having little Discord lessons and training sessions for the complicated DCS stuff. I could see the same thing happening with FS2020. Hell, I'll set up a VOR navigation lesson myself once the game comes out if you want Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Aug 2, 2020 |
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Aug 2, 2020 17:01
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FS2020 is the top selling game on steam. https://www.pcgamesn.com/microsoft-flight-simulator/top-seller Really interested to see how a larger audience will impact the freeware and paid add-on market. Coupled with the consolidation of everyone from P3D and X-Plane, I'm hopeful for more good freeware and lower prices for paid add-ons. Between that and the marketplace maybe we can finally bring Flight Sim mods into the 21st century.
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Aug 2, 2020 17:35
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After signing up for the alpha and getting nothing I'm finally in the Beta. Seems best way is to install the xbox insider app and sign up. It didn't notify me, just the unsunscribe from the programme option turned into open the store option. Now for an 80gb download.
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Aug 2, 2020 17:35
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Sebastian Flyte posted:Looks like the tree placement algorithm had a brainfart somewhere in Bremen. I've noticed similar giant trees in places. Somewhere outside of Chicago there's a tree that's at least 500m tall.
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Aug 2, 2020 17:39
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