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Mantle
May 15, 2004

Truga posted:

so jealous of that aspect ratio lmao

Is that a 1:1 or a 4:3? I feel the best you can get these days is a 3:2.

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Corin Tucker's Stalker
May 27, 2001


One bullet. One gun. Six Chambers. These are my friends.

Mantle posted:

Is that a 1:1 or a 4:3? I feel the best you can get these days is a 3:2.
3:2 is why I think the Surface line is actually cool. Or would be, if they didn't do the Apple thing of putting too little RAM in the base models and overpricing the next step up.

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Mantle posted:

Is that a 1:1 or a 4:3? I feel the best you can get these days is a 3:2.
I haven't seen many 1:1 screens, but 5:4 is close.

Lord Ludikrous
Jun 6, 2008

Enjoy your tea...

Mantle posted:

Is that a 1:1 or a 4:3? I feel the best you can get these days is a 3:2.

Itís 4:3 1024x768.

Mental Hospitality
Jan 5, 2011

Lenovo Yoga 7i i5, 16GB ram for $599 at Best Buy. I have one with a 12th gen intel chip and it makes for a really nice convertible/non-gaming device. The build feels very solid (almost Mac-like), has a great keyboard, fp reader, and a sharp display. I actually picked mine over a similarly priced Asus machine that had an even nicer OLED and P-series CPU because I felt the keyboard and overall build of the Lenovo was superior.

Mental Hospitality fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Feb 16, 2024

Bouillon Rube
Aug 6, 2009


How dumb would it be to throw $150 at an early 2015 MacBook Pro/Air?

Just need something lightweight and cheap for basic productivity stuff/browsing/3d printer slicing. From what I can tell the i5 5xxx processors that come with these still outperform the Celeron/Pentium processors that come with cheap Chromebooks these days, no?

Bouillon Rube
Aug 6, 2009


Quote is still not edit even in 2024 it seems

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
Yeah it'd be decent. It's old and won't be screaming but if it has enough RAM for your needs it's not a waste of money.

RestingB1tchFace
Jul 3, 2016

Opinions are like a$$holes....everyone has one....but mines the best!!!

Bouillon Rube posted:

How dumb would it be to throw $150 at an early 2015 MacBook Pro/Air?

Just need something lightweight and cheap for basic productivity stuff/browsing/3d printer slicing. From what I can tell the i5 5xxx processors that come with these still outperform the Celeron/Pentium processors that come with cheap Chromebooks these days, no?

Nine years is pushing it.....even if the previous owners took good care of the thing and didn't use it extensively. But with a clean wipe and reinstall.....I'd think something like that would still be capable of more basic tasks. I would personally put the $150 towards a new, lower end laptop however.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

My wife replaced her 2011 MacBook Air in 2020 so that was about 9 years on the original battery

In spring 2024 that same laptop is also probably 9 years old

I think the actual compute power for a MacBook Air from that era is fine (I think it might even be the grossly outdated thread title Haswell?) but I'd worry about battery life being more than an hour

How long do you need the laptop to serve you? 6 months? A year? It might be fine. I'd invest in at least a 6 year old laptop or newer since they tend to hang around a lot longer than most people expect

$150 MacBook Air is more "my term paper is due Tuesday and I need a laptop NOW" not "general productivity for the next two years" type purchase

Hadlock fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Feb 19, 2024

Bouillon Rube
Aug 6, 2009


RestingB1tchFace posted:

Nine years is pushing it.....even if the previous owners took good care of the thing and didn't use it extensively. But with a clean wipe and reinstall.....I'd think something like that would still be capable of more basic tasks. I would personally put the $150 towards a new, lower end laptop however.

Yeah, the main challenge is finding one in decent shape. There are a ton on eBay (many with 1-2 year warranties) but a lot of them are clearly beat to poo poo.

RestingB1tchFace
Jul 3, 2016

Opinions are like a$$holes....everyone has one....but mines the best!!!

Bouillon Rube posted:

Yeah, the main challenge is finding one in decent shape. There are a ton on eBay (many with 1-2 year warranties) but a lot of them are clearly beat to poo poo.

I actually bought a used MacBook around 15 years ago for like $600 off ebay. Can't remember how long I had it before it crapped out.....but I don't think it was more than two or three years. Still got that brick in a box somewhere. Just don't think I'd ever consider buying a used laptop ever again. Especially considering that you don't have to drop a grand any longer for a decent, functional computer.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

RestingB1tchFace posted:

I actually bought a used MacBook around 15 years ago for like $600 off ebay. Can't remember how long I had it before it crapped out.....but I don't think it was more than two or three years. Still got that brick in a box somewhere. Just don't think I'd ever consider buying a used laptop ever again. Especially considering that you don't have to drop a grand any longer for a decent, functional computer.

Was that... a P-P-P-Powerbook?

RestingB1tchFace
Jul 3, 2016

Opinions are like a$$holes....everyone has one....but mines the best!!!

mobby_6kl posted:

Was that... a P-P-P-Powerbook?

No. It was one of the first generations of Macbook. One of the black polycarbonate models. Think it was a 2007 production model....and I probably bought it in late 2008 or early 2009.

buffbus
Nov 19, 2012

Bouillon Rube posted:

Yeah, the main challenge is finding one in decent shape. There are a ton on eBay (many with 1-2 year warranties) but a lot of them are clearly beat to poo poo.

Most MacBook pros in that age range will have some anti glare peeling which looks awful. Also assume any of those warranties will not be honored. Many have fine print of "warranty applies to the questionable no name charger we included which may or may not burn your house down", not the main parts of the laptop itself.

down1nit
Jan 9, 2004

outlive your enemies

RestingB1tchFace posted:

No. It was one of the first generations of Macbook. One of the black polycarbonate models. Think it was a 2007 production model....and I probably bought it in late 2008 or early 2009.

Oh, your inverter probably died. They all did that eventually. Reeeeeally bright screen though, compared to everything else out there. Good with the bad. You can find pictures of people's clutch cover melting lol. I may have some.

On those it was always the inverter, the screen cable, or the hinges. Sometimes the magsafe. The idea of this Mac was great but the execution ended up with a lot of annoyed everymen in my shop saying apple should stand for better quality. They were right. Lots of adhesive problems, plastic crumbling, hinge snapping, so many dead power supplies/magsafe, and gobs of heat from the (pretty decent at the time) CPU. That drat dvd drive too. The next version "unibody" plastic design was loving genius and set the stage for a pretty huge upgrade in laptop design worldwide, and persists to this day. It commands a price still I think.

drat the macbook, all hail the macbook!

Still, you have the last black Mac out there. Bring back black Mac.


=====

My professional "keep a device as long as possible" advice is to *only* buy macs used, or if you have the privilege and can do it: buy new with a good credit card (to get the card's extended warranty). Also, ideally, be in education to get a 10% (?) discount that helps offset the pricey full warranty that you will absolutely need as well.

Buying used from a trusted ebay company is cool and good. You are taking money from Tim Apple this way also.

RestingB1tchFace
Jul 3, 2016

Opinions are like a$$holes....everyone has one....but mines the best!!!

down1nit posted:

Oh, your inverter probably died. They all did that eventually. Reeeeeally bright screen though, compared to everything else out there. Good with the bad. You can find pictures of people's clutch cover melting lol. I may have some.

On those it was always the inverter, the screen cable, or the hinges. Sometimes the magsafe. The idea of this Mac was great but the execution ended up with a lot of annoyed everymen in my shop saying apple should stand for better quality. They were right. Lots of adhesive problems, plastic crumbling, hinge snapping, so many dead power supplies/magsafe, and gobs of heat from the (pretty decent at the time) CPU. That drat dvd drive too. The next version "unibody" plastic design was loving genius and set the stage for a pretty huge upgrade in laptop design worldwide, and persists to this day. It commands a price still I think.

drat the macbook, all hail the macbook!

Still, you have the last black Mac out there. Bring back black Mac.


=====

My professional "keep a device as long as possible" advice is to *only* buy macs used, or if you have the privilege and can do it: buy new with a good credit card (to get the card's extended warranty). Also, ideally, be in education to get a 10% (?) discount that helps offset the pricey full warranty that you will absolutely need as well.

Buying used from a trusted ebay company is cool and good. You are taking money from Tim Apple this way also.

Yeah....I have no idea what died....but it just stopped turning on altogether. I've got an older iBook from the early 00's that was still operable the last time I checked (probably a few years back).

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



I had a real headscratcher with my nephew's I think Legion 5 recently, where it would boot to a black screen. Clearly the panel still worked, because it would show all the pre Windows stuff. I was halfway into downloading the newest gpu drivers after connecting an external monitor, when his penny dropped and he sheepishly turned up the screen brightness. Apparently you can turn the backlight down until it's off? What the hell is that good for? Thanks Lenovo for making us both look like fools.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Flipperwaldt posted:

I had a real headscratcher with my nephew's I think Legion 5 recently, where it would boot to a black screen. Clearly the panel still worked, because it would show all the pre Windows stuff. I was halfway into downloading the newest gpu drivers after connecting an external monitor, when his penny dropped and he sheepishly turned up the screen brightness. Apparently you can turn the backlight down until it's off? What the hell is that good for? Thanks Lenovo for making us both look like fools.

Lol, I was reading this and was ready to reply with "Check the brightness". I think full brightness down is "backlight off" which makes sense, even if the use cases are very very narrow.

down1nit
Jan 9, 2004

outlive your enemies

Flipperwaldt posted:

I had a real headscratcher with my nephew's I think Legion 5 recently, where it would boot to a black screen. Clearly the panel still worked, because it would show all the pre Windows stuff. I was halfway into downloading the newest gpu drivers after connecting an external monitor, when his penny dropped and he sheepishly turned up the screen brightness. Apparently you can turn the backlight down until it's off? What the hell is that good for? Thanks Lenovo for making us both look like fools.

Some of us consider that a good feature! I pressed the button, it should get DIMMER DAMMIT.

Use cases: A streamer could use it for their ingest, or a goon could use it as a porn torrent box, and with the option of dimming the screen fully to black, you can have instant "wake" for conserving a bit of power on road trips where you only need music playing....

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Fine, add an indicator light to the keyboard like the one that says the sound is muted or the wifi is switched off to make it an actual feature. I'm not mad!

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Hey all, hardware is always kind of a black box for me and I'd really appreciate if anyone could glance over my current specs and tell me if it's time to upgrade if I want to continue to play games at 60FPS on "high" settings.

Lately I've had a few performance issues (Alan Wake 2, Pacific Drive demo) and I'm trying to figure out if those are just isolated instances of poorly optimized games or if this laptop that us approaching three years old is just aging to the point that I'll need to start turning settings down to "low" more and more often.

ASUS TUFF 2021

Screen Size
16 inches

Screen Resolution
1920 x 1080 (Full HD)

Processor Model
Intel 11th Generation Core i7

Storage Type
SSD

Total Storage Capacity
1000 gigabytes

System Memory (RAM)
16 gigabytes

Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
Are you playing on the 1080p monitor or an external one?

So a mobile 3060 is a good mobile GPU, but not really a top-end one. Its pretty close to a desktop 1070 maybe a 1070ti and a solid step below a desktop 2060. For a game like Alan Wake 2 I'd expect you would do ok with DLSS on, RT off and mostly medium settings. Technically you're below the minimum hardware as AW2 recommends a 2060 desktop. So not much help coming there.

Pacific drive should run ok but it right now has some bad optimization issues. From what I understand you need one of the handful of fastest GPUs to run it well but I suspect that will get fixed. So I wouldn't worry about that.

So basically your laptop is a good laptop for most games, though high end ones will be stuck in the "medium" range. Tbh, outside of the top-end laptops most will pretty quickly end up as "I need to set down settings" for the highest requirement of games. A laptop doesn't really compete the same way as a high end desktop does. You'd be able to run BG3, Diablo 4, Palworld, etc really well on that but for particularly intensive games, yeah. You'll need to turn down settings. If you spent $1000-1500 on a 4060 or 4070 right now you'd probably be able to run things on high but in 3 years you'd likely be in the same boat, for sure if the next console gen is released by then.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
I play on the laptop's display, so the relatively low resolution is doing me a lot of favors in performance.

I didn't realize the laptop versions of the GPU compared that poorly to the desktop counter parts. i upgraded from a desktop using a 1060 (also to a 1080p monitor. And the performance increase seemed much higher than just going up one "step" within the same GPU series. Of course the CPU was contemporaneous to the GPU so maybe that was a larger relative jump.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
The 1060 aged really badly so yeah, I think by 2021 that woulda been a big jump. And if you were coming from a 6000-series or earlier than the CPU would be a big difference, even on desktop.

Looking more I guess I over estimated the 2060 desktop, so you're right around there. But yeah, basically hitting AW2 minimums, so not a big surprise you need to have settings at medium-ish. I wouldn't say "OMG you need to replace" because I think most stuff will run fine at 1080p, but if high resolution/high framerate is a priority for AAA type games then I think a desktop will give you a lot more longevity.

Mental Hospitality
Jan 5, 2011

I think the 3060 in my machine is aging quite gracefully, and while it has its limitations I don't think it's too much of hindrance at present day. I personally am going to hold out for the next major GPU refresh after the rtx4000 series, preferably the successor to the 4060, as the XX60 series laptop gpu's hit the price-performance sweet spot. I think "Blackwell" is the next big GPU introduction from nvidia and we may see GDDR7 memory and a new manufacturing process. That's probably not going to be a thing until 2025 in laptops though. I guess we'll just have to see how the 5060 stacks up and what fancy new DLSS/Frame-gen stuff nvidia pushes out next.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Mental Hospitality posted:

I think the 3060 in my machine is aging quite gracefully, and while it has its limitations I don't think it's too much of hindrance at present day. I personally am going to hold out for the next major GPU refresh after the rtx4000 series, preferably the successor to the 4060, as the XX60 series laptop gpu's hit the price-performance sweet spot. I think "Blackwell" is the next big GPU introduction from nvidia and we may see GDDR7 memory and a new manufacturing process. That's probably not going to be a thing until 2025 in laptops though. I guess we'll just have to see how the 5060 stacks up and what fancy new DLSS/Frame-gen stuff nvidia pushes out next.

Yeah it's pretty good though the 4060 was a nice jump. I'm still on a 2060 though I have a decent desktop too so it's easier to stretch things out. I think next holiday season I'm going to be weighing another G14 vs a 14" Legion, but I suspect you're right and the 5060 (or w/e) won't be available by then. So I may end up waiting longer.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
How big of a difference is a laptop 3060 vs laptop 3070. Does it make a practical difference in what games I can play?

Like was said, I tend to try to skip a generation, too, so that's why I went from a 1060 to a 3060, but one thing I've noticed in the years of owning the laptop is that I could have had a 3070 for a couple hundred more dollars, and in the long run it seems like I should have spent a little more, $1700 vs $1500.

But on the other hand, sometimes that's a slippery slope that doesn't stop until your $1.5k laptop costs $3k.

Mental Hospitality
Jan 5, 2011

Jack B Nimble posted:

How big of a difference is a laptop 3060 vs laptop 3070. Does it make a practical difference in what games I can play?

Like was said, I tend to try to skip a generation, too, so that's why I went from a 1060 to a 3060, but one thing I've noticed in the years of owning the laptop is that I could have had a 3070 for a couple hundred more dollars, and in the long run it seems like I should have spent a little more, $1700 vs $1500.

But on the other hand, sometimes that's a slippery slope that doesn't stop until your $1.5k laptop costs $3k.

Lots of game benchmarks here. If you scroll down towards the bottom, you can often see the 3060 in the comparison charts too. Glancing at it, it looks like the 3070 can be anywhere from 5-20% faster depending on game. The 3070 is probably helped by having more vram (8GB vs 6GB) and a wider memory bus (256bit vs 192). I don't think the gap between the current 4060 and 4070 is as apparent, although the 4070 does probably net you more flexibility if you want to play games with ray-tracing. Oh and now we have DLSS 3+ and frame gen to further obscure the differences between chips.

down1nit
Jan 9, 2004

outlive your enemies
Yeah that's the one slope you want to ski down. Forgo extra ssd or cpu power, ram if it's not soldered. Always spend to your budget first focusing on GPU primarily as your target (assuming it's for gaming.) with future upgrades in mind. (You can sell a 256GB SSD that comes with the base version.... That's $20 towards a new, fast Samsung 2TB etc)

The second consideration should be the seller for easy returns, tied with the payment method (use a good credit card) for a free warranty extension (its a gaming laptop, it's not long for this world)

RAM is third most important, CPU should be fourth. For gaming, mind.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Jack B Nimble posted:

How big of a difference is a laptop 3060 vs laptop 3070. Does it make a practical difference in what games I can play?

Like was said, I tend to try to skip a generation, too, so that's why I went from a 1060 to a 3060, but one thing I've noticed in the years of owning the laptop is that I could have had a 3070 for a couple hundred more dollars, and in the long run it seems like I should have spent a little more, $1700 vs $1500.

But on the other hand, sometimes that's a slippery slope that doesn't stop until your $1.5k laptop costs $3k.

The 3070 kinda sucked, it was a little faster but for the heat and wattage it wasn't great. A lot of the cheaper 3070 laptops also typically didn't handle the cooling nearly good enough. The 3070ti was an improvement, though it came later in the lifecycle.

The 4070 kinda sucks. It's really close to linnear in terms of wattage to performance compared withthe 4060. The 4080 is a big jump though.

I do think the xx70 the last couple generations has not been a great point as you're kinda stuck between "Really good GPU for heat management" of the xx60 and "Impressive performance" of the xx80 and don't really satisfy either side.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Well, you've reassured me I can probably wait through this year on the current laptop, and some things to think about the next time I need an upgrade, thanks.

99pct of germs
Apr 13, 2013

Well my Legion Slim 5 14'' showed up much earlier than I had anticipated. I haven't had a ton of time with it, but here are some initial impressions:

- The build quality feels "premium". The design is clean, and doesn't scream GAMER. It's incredibly light and doesn't have a bunch of gaudy accoutrements.
- Port selection is good, the lack of an ethernet port is a shame but not a big deal for me.
- The OLED screen is very nice, and incredibly sharp. The 16:10 aspect ratio is welcome too.
- The keyboard feels nice and tacky, and for me personally is basically the perfect size.
- I haven't had a ton of time to play games, but the few games I opened and mucked around in ran nicely at decent settings and resolution.

I'll post a more comprehensive write up after I get some more time with it. But I will say for $1400 I definitely don't feel like I got less than what I paid for so far.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
That's very cool. I'm also curious about the battery life and if the OLED impacts that.

jjack229
Feb 14, 2008
Articulate your needs. I'm here to listen.
I had my sister buy Lenovo IdeaPad 3 17IRU7 several months ago based on recommendations from this thread (when it was on sale) and added a stick of 8GB RAM and she has been very happy with it.

They are looking to buy another laptop for my brother-in-law to use while she is on hers. He does not need the screen to be as large (he is fine with a standard 14" to 16") or the laptop as powerful and is looking for something in the $200-$450 range, if possible. He would be using it to browse the internet and run some basic software for their business (spreadsheets and accounting software, nothing intense). He would also like to be able to have it display on the two monitors that they have.

A few questions:

1) Any recommendations on laptops. I was looking at the Lenovo Outlet website and they have quite a few IdeaPads and a ThinkPad in that range.

IdeaPad 3, Intel Core i5-1135G7, $300

IdeaPad 3, AMD Ryzen 3 5425U, $328

ThinkPad E495, AMD Ryzen 5 3500U, $350

2) How do I know if the laptops have a spare slot to add more RAM? The webpages do not have that much information on them.

3) Will standard integrated laptop graphics be able to run two external monitors (from my little bit of searching, I think the answer is yes).

4) How do I go about selecting a docking station (USB hub?) that would work with either laptop and let them connect to two monitors. All my experience with those is from my work laptops where my company has already selected the laptop and the docking station. The Wirecutter USB-C hub picks all only have one HDMI port.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
If your ok dealing with a mail in rebate this is hard to beat and probably a better deal even without the rebate
https://slickdeals.net/share/android_app/fp/925600

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.


Oven Wrangler

jjack229 posted:

2) How do I know if the laptops have a spare slot to add more RAM? The webpages do not have that much information on them.

3) Will standard integrated laptop graphics be able to run two external monitors (from my little bit of searching, I think the answer is yes).

4) How do I go about selecting a docking station (USB hub?) that would work with either laptop and let them connect to two monitors. All my experience with those is from my work laptops where my company has already selected the laptop and the docking station. The Wirecutter USB-C hub picks all only have one HDMI port.

2) Look to see if they say the memory is soldered or SODIMM. Soldered isn't upgradeable, and SODIMM without any soldered memory will generally mean two slots which may or may not both be populated already depending on how much memory you get. Some Lenovo models have soldered memory for one channel and a SODIMM for the other, like the first IdeaPad you linked there - these allow you to upgrade the SODIMM slot as per usual.

e: Some models which have one soldered channel and an empty SODIMM slot, like the T14 Gen 3 I'm looking at, just say "soldered" and don't mention the slot at all. Unfortunately the only way I know to catch this is to check the spec sheet, which Lenovo calls a "PSREF" so search that with the model name if you want to be sure.

3) Pretty much anything recent will be able to handle two monitors from a graphics card perspective, so the sticking point will be two ports capable of display output - HDMI of course, but also USB-C with DP Alt Mode. Mini-DisplayPort is technically an option but I never see it on laptops anymore now that Type-C has taken over.

4) Get a laptop with Thunderbolt 3 or 4 and a Lenovo TB3 docking station used off eBay, they're cheap and can do 3 monitors no problem. Laptops that have USB4 but not TB (some recent Ryzen models) may work with a TB3 dock too, but I haven't personally verified if they can do multiple monitors so TB is the guaranteed solution.

Unfortunately the models with Thunderbolt tend to start a little bit higher, but there are still some pretty reasonable ones like this Thinkbook for 450: https://www.lenovo.com/us/outletus/en/p/laptops/thinkbook/thinkbook-series/thinkbook-14-gen-4-(14-inch-intel)/21dhx015us

Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Feb 24, 2024

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Mantle
May 15, 2004

Another keyword is LPDDR. I am not aware of any LPDDR that is socketed-- it should indicate soldered RAM.

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