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Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


I cry endlessly about video games! I just can't stop!

Don't reply because I'm not listening!

I should ALREADY be on your ignore list!


I find the Synaptics trackpads just as good as Apples perhaps I'm just sucker for chiral scroll. Although I've only used one for all I know they have cheaper shittier ones.

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Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE



PC laptop manufacturers have effectively ruined themselves by refusing to put quality products on display in big box stores. After a lovely laptop buyer has had enough of either their lovely $500 crapbox or their overpriced Sony they're going to turn to what 'just works' and they'll just buy the Apple instead of ordering online.

Shofixti
Nov 23, 2005

Kyaieee!

InstantInfidel posted:

Basically, PC companies are all shitpiles with a few exceptions and Apple has the right idea. I'm not a fanboy, really, they just make a better product that has its own shortcomings that are much, much less glaring.

It's true and I guess I always knew that. I just never noticed it so much since I build my own desktops which ensures it's not a shitpile. I don't like Apple software but I can definitely appreciate that they know what they're doing when it comes to hardware. I'm considering an Apple and just using boot camp but it feels a bit silly.


go3 posted:

PC laptop manufacturers have effectively ruined themselves by refusing to put quality products on display in big box stores. After a lovely laptop buyer has had enough of either their lovely $500 crapbox or their overpriced Sony they're going to turn to what 'just works' and they'll just buy the Apple instead of ordering online.

Yeah the whole race to the bottom thing between PC manufacturers has really started to screw them. I guess what I'm surprised about is that no PC manufacturer has decided to position itself as the "Apple of PC laptops" for lack of a better term. Just a simplified line up of quality (and I guess pricier) hardware.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004



Shofixti posted:

Yeah the whole race to the bottom thing between PC manufacturers has really started to screw them. I guess what I'm surprised about is that no PC manufacturer has decided to position itself as the "Apple of PC laptops" for lack of a better term. Just a simplified line up of quality (and I guess pricier) hardware.

This is pretty much the entire argument for Intel's Ultrabooks. A happy medium between craptops and $$ apple laptops. Sort of an "intel stamp of 'not complete poo poo' approval" that hovers around the $600 price point.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Hadlock posted:

This is pretty much the entire argument for Intel's Ultrabooks. A happy medium between craptops and $$ apple laptops. Sort of an "intel stamp of 'not complete poo poo' approval" that hovers around the $600 price point.

Weren't the manufacturers complaining that ultrabooks cost to much to make?

Butt Savage
Aug 23, 2007


If I remember correctly, Vizio is trying to be the PC version of Apple. They're looking to achieve that same quality of hardware and only offer stock Windows installations with their systems (which is part of the reason why they're more expensive, no subsidies). Give them a few years and I think they'll get there. Now the question is whether they'll also provide similar customer service.

WHERE MY HAT IS AT
Jan 7, 2011


Butt Savage posted:

If I remember correctly, Vizio is trying to be the PC version of Apple. They're looking to achieve that same quality of hardware and only offer stock Windows installations with their systems (which is part of the reason why they're more expensive, no subsidies). Give them a few years and I think they'll get there. Now the question is whether they'll also provide similar customer service.

I had literally never heard of these guys making anything outside TVs before this. They do look pretty good, though. I do find it odd that your CPU choices are AMD or i7 and nothing else though.

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

WHERE MY HAT IS AT posted:

I had literally never heard of these guys making anything outside TVs before this. They do look pretty good, though. I do find it odd that your CPU choices are AMD or i7 and nothing else though.
The previous generation had i3s and i5s, but apparently they've been swapped out for AMD.

Butt Savage
Aug 23, 2007


Wow, that sucks. I had no idea they made those changes. I haven't looked at their offerings in more than 6 months. Last thing I remember was that their keyboards and touchpads needed work (heh), and battery life was only ok. Hopefully they haven't given up on their ultimate goal.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Vizio talked about bringing design to ultrabooks but they're all basically 'cut a slab out of aluminium'. Other than painting it blue or black, or giving the lid some weird finish, there's not much you can do.

Butt Savage
Aug 23, 2007


Yeah, that just sounds silly. I'm content with Apple's laptop design and would have no problem with other manufacturers adopting it. Keep it simple, keep it sleek. There's no need to add any extra grooves and poo poo to it. Any changes to the case design should be minimal. Now that external design has been pretty much nailed, I'd rather manufacturers focus on optimizing the internals, screen, keyboard and -- in the case of PC makers -- the goddamned touchpad.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

What are the problems ya'll have with touchpads? I ask because I don't have any problems with my touchpad and don't remember my old MacBook being that much better than this one.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams


7 years ago I got a Dell XPS M1210 which had the most amazing touchpad I've ever used, I was even able to play FPS on it, but for some reason the quality of touchpads has gone down since then.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


The one thing I liked about my T400 over my T500 - they put one USB port on the right side. I liked being able to plug a mouse in over there.

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011
Running no point.

I finally got sick of this netbook I've been struggling with and ordered an x230 off the lenovo outlet for what looks like about half price. There's not much I can do about it now, but do they all come with IPS screens? Will it take a normal size SSD?

Other than that it looks pretty great. Overkill for surfing the net from my bed but I'm sick of having to wait 20 seconds to change tabs in Firefox on this thing.

code:
Lenovo X230 ThinkPad
New (details)
Outlet Price: £945.30*
Reduced Price £549.00

Specifications
    Battery 	6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (Up to 4.5 Hours Run Time)
    Bluetooth 	Yes
    Broadband 	Integrated Wireless WAN: Ericsson
    CPU 	Intel® Core™ i5-3320M (3M Cache, 2.60 GHz)
    Color 	Black
    Condition 	New
    Display 	12.5” HD WXGA (1366 X 768) LED
    FPR 	No
    Graphics 	Intel® HD Graphics 4000
    HDD 	320GB, 7200RPM Serial ATA 2.5" Hard Drive
    Keyboard 	UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
    Memory 	4 GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600MHz SODIMM Memory
    OperatingSystem 	Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64 - English
    OpticalStorage 	Optical Not Included
    Software 	No Software Included
    Warranty 	1 Year Depot Warranty
    Wireless 	Intel® Centrino Advanced-N 6205 (2x2 AGN)

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


knox_harrington posted:

I finally got sick of this netbook I've been struggling with and ordered an x230 off the lenovo outlet for what looks like about half price. There's not much I can do about it now, but do they all come with IPS screens? Will it take a normal size SSD?

7mm, which is a pretty popular size.

Gnomedolf
Jun 8, 2013

Freelance Gynecologist

My opinion is that the 1366x768 resolution should be banned from the face of the earth. It gives such a terrible experience.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Gnomedolf posted:

My opinion is that the 1366x768 resolution should be banned from the face of the earth. It gives such a terrible experience.

It's allowable on 11" and 12" screens.

768 pixels is still just...ugh.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009


Gnomedolf posted:

My opinion is that the 1366x768 resolution should be banned from the face of the earth. It gives such a terrible experience.

I'm perfectly happy with it on my X120e, on a screen smaller than 12" it's perfect and any more would stress the GPU. It plays games better than most cheapo laptops I've seen, and it's a tiny netbook.

Carecat
Apr 27, 2004

Stop in the name of the paw


Buglord

WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:

I haven't found a Sony screen I liked because they all seem like flimsy LCD screens, even on their business-class models.

You should really really wait for Haswell and avoid getting a dedicated graphics card unless you wanna play Battlefield 3 or something. Instead of getting a graphics card, why not get a bigger badder processor?

Plus, what do you need the Blu-Ray drive for? Unless you wanna watch a bunch of movies on the go, you could just buy a USB drive or something. That's what I do for DVDs.

e: So, what do you really want out of this thing? Do you want to be able to play video games on it? If so, which ones? Looking around, with those specs, you could get a really good ultrabook at 13 inches for less than $1200 without the graphics card. DO you want portability or performance?

Right, I wouldn't ever try to play an FPS on it. I use my current one for watching movies when I'm at home, when I'm away it's a replacement PC but any i5 has enough juice to do that. Phones and tablets are crap for that with the small screen and touch keyboards. The bluray drive could be a waste, I just have quite a few of them. Performance isn't a priority, I'm more concerned with a good screen and quietness.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Weinertron posted:

on a screen smaller than 12" it's perfect and any more would stress the GPU your eyes.
fixed. Once you get to 130+ ppi things get tiny.

unpronounceable
Apr 4, 2010

You mean we still have another game to go through?!


Fallen Rib

Bob Morales posted:

It's allowable on 11" and 12" screens.

768 pixels is still just...ugh.

Yeah. I can deal with a larger pixel pitch than anyone here would recommend. In fact, I have 1366x768 on my 16" laptop right now. What hurts more than anything, other than the physical pain of using that monster, is that 768 is just too few vertical pixels for comfortable use.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

Carecat posted:

Right, I wouldn't ever try to play an FPS on it. I use my current one for watching movies when I'm at home, when I'm away it's a replacement PC but any i5 has enough juice to do that. Phones and tablets are crap for that with the small screen and touch keyboards. The bluray drive could be a waste, I just have quite a few of them. Performance isn't a priority, I'm more concerned with a good screen and quietness.

I swear I'm not a shill, but have you looked at the Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A? I have it, it's quiet as all hell, it's only 13 inches, great battery. It doesn't have that many ports and it doesn't have an optical drive at all but the last time I used a disk on my laptop was probably 2007. The hinge feels tight and great, screen has great viewing angles, IPS, and is 1920x1080. Really the screen is just perfect. Design is great, sleek, sturdy (not flimsy like most, if not all, Sony laptops). I play Prison Architect and TF2 on it with no problems, poo poo's a good no-frills laptop. All below 3 pounds.

http://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks_Ul...UX31A/#overview
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review...ok.87921.0.html

Seriously, this thing is the bomb dot com and if you care for a touch screen you can get one on this thing.

http://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks_Ul...UX31A/#overview

If you want to wait for their newer thing you can get their new Zenbook Infinity whenever that's coming out. Very similar specs but it has Haswell in it, and has a gorilla glass back to the lid which, frankly, I don't give a poo poo about. That's just begging to get smudged about. But it seems like a really really great laptop even with a touchscreen.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7035/...ook-at-computex

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 26 hours!


Buglord

Butt Savage posted:

Yeah, that just sounds silly. I'm content with Apple's laptop design and would have no problem with other manufacturers adopting it. Keep it simple, keep it sleek. There's no need to add any extra grooves and poo poo to it. Any changes to the case design should be minimal. Now that external design has been pretty much nailed, I'd rather manufacturers focus on optimizing the internals, screen, keyboard and -- in the case of PC makers -- the goddamned touchpad.

Same except replace Apple's design with the old IBM Thinkpads. For instance, the old X60/X61 era physical design and form factor with 11" 4:3 screen is pretty much perfect, and every change that's come afterwards has basically been a downgrade. I have a few that are still kicking many years later with only battery replacements and SSD upgrades. The exteriors have held up incredibly well even after hard use. I doubt even the current Lenovo-designed ones will last as long, and now it looks like they're going to change the design to be another bad knock-off of Apple design by copying the most questionable parts of the design - sunken hinges, no physical latch, clickpads, and possibly even soldered ram/battery/drives.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE



768p is pretty good on 15.6" monitors for people with not so great eyesight which is what the market is planning for and not a bunch of turbonerds

Edit: But as ^^^ said gently caress 16:9 on laptops forever and ever

dissss
Nov 10, 2007


Duck and Cover posted:

I find the Synaptics trackpads just as good as Apples perhaps I'm just sucker for chiral scroll. Although I've only used one for all I know they have cheaper shittier ones.

I have to admit I don't like the Apple trackpads much either - sure the gestures work great but actual finger tracking seems 'off' compared to my Windows machines and the maximum pointer speed is too slow for me.

headlight
Nov 4, 2003



knox_harrington posted:

I finally got sick of this netbook I've been struggling with and ordered an x230 off the lenovo outlet for what looks like about half price. There's not much I can do about it now, but do they all come with IPS screens? Will it take a normal size SSD?

Other than that it looks pretty great. Overkill for surfing the net from my bed but I'm sick of having to wait 20 seconds to change tabs in Firefox on this thing.

code:
Lenovo X230 ThinkPad
New (details)
Outlet Price: £945.30*
Reduced Price £549.00


How did you manage to get such a great price? Th OP link to B&N looks only in the US..

E: Nevermind, I found the outlet store. Still, it's a great purchase. Enjoy.

headlight fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2013 around 11:33

Gnomedolf
Jun 8, 2013

Freelance Gynecologist

WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:

I swear I'm not a shill, but have you looked at the Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A?

I have the Zenbook Prime UX32VD. It's an awesome ultrabook with dedicated graphics and has a 13.3" 1080p screen. While the screen is awesome, Microsoft really needs to look into doing something like Apple does with their Retina screens. While I bitched about 1366x768 earlier, having very high resolutions on small screens isn't the best experience either. Apple saw this and made it so you get great quality but you don't need a magnifying glass to read text (I use the text zoom Chrome add-on. It zooms text and nothing else).

Shofixti
Nov 23, 2005

Kyaieee!

Gnomedolf posted:

Microsoft really needs to look into doing something like Apple does with their Retina screens.

The rumour mill is saying that's exactly what Windows 8.1 will be doing but we won't know until later.

victorisham
Oct 9, 2009

Quelaag, my dear sister... Please do not cry.
I am happy, really. I have you, don't I?


How is the ThinkPad x131e? I'm split between that and a t430 for a university laptop next year, and with the coupon I have (in Canada) they're only 50$ apart at the base models.

VVV: Thanks for the quick response! I'm definitely much more inclined to spend the extra money on the t430 now.

victorisham fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2013 around 22:29

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004



The x131e was slow and the hardware driving it was at End Of Life when it was released, it's mainly been coasting on how awesome the similar x120e was in 2011.

The T430 is a vastly better machine (if slightly larger) and the sandy bridge chip in it is approx 5-6x faster in real world use. Graphics will last you another couple of years for regular things like 1080p youtube, new indie games, etc.

In other words, x131e is in sunset mode of it's lifespan while the T430 is near the beginning to midway through it's usefulness.

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)


Cream_Filling posted:

I doubt even the current Lenovo-designed ones will last as long, and now it looks like they're going to change the design to be another bad knock-off of Apple design by copying the most questionable parts of the design - sunken hinges, no physical latch, clickpads, and possibly even soldered ram/battery/drives.

Latches are just another thing that can break, and they only keep the laptop from flying open _after_ the main impact has been absorbed. They're only really useful if the hinge itself can't hold the laptop closed. The space and budget needed for latch holes and a tube going across the laptop's interior would be better spent on an actual improvement to the machine's structural integrity.

Sunken hinges are good because they keep the screen closer to the keyboard and retarded people that can't touch type and would suffocate without a backlit keyboard thus have less distance to move their eyes.

fookolt
Mar 13, 2012

Where there is power
There is resistance


http://www.anandtech.com/show/7047/...74500u-tested/5

Anandtech reviews a Haswell ultrabook. I've gone ahead and snipped the part I was most interested in:



Wait for Haswell indeed.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


shrughes posted:

Latches are just another thing that can break, and they only keep the laptop from flying open _after_ the main impact has been absorbed. They're only really useful if the hinge itself can't hold the laptop closed. The space and budget needed for latch holes and a tube going across the laptop's interior would be better spent on an actual improvement to the machine's structural integrity.

Sunken hinges are good because they keep the screen closer to the keyboard and retarded people that can't touch type and would suffocate without a backlit keyboard thus have less distance to move their eyes.

Sunken hinges force the user to look another half inch downward at the screen which is bad. But it's common with convertibles since it allows the screen to open to 180 degrees

WHERE MY HAT IS AT
Jan 7, 2011


fookolt posted:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7047/...74500u-tested/5

Anandtech reviews a Haswell ultrabook. I've gone ahead and snipped the part I was most interested in:



Wait for Haswell indeed.

If that ends up holding true in real world usage...

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 26 hours!


Buglord

shrughes posted:

Latches are just another thing that can break, and they only keep the laptop from flying open _after_ the main impact has been absorbed. They're only really useful if the hinge itself can't hold the laptop closed. The space and budget needed for latch holes and a tube going across the laptop's interior would be better spent on an actual improvement to the machine's structural integrity.

Sunken hinges are good because they keep the screen closer to the keyboard and retarded people that can't touch type and would suffocate without a backlit keyboard thus have less distance to move their eyes.

There are very few durable laptops that don't have some form of positive closure for the lid. A physical latch is arguably easier to use and is easier to strengthen and overengineer than the alternative, a magnetic latch, which cannot be too strong since you have no way of deactivating it to open the lid and which is usually more expensive to implement or repair if it breaks. The cheap crap approach of having an extremely stiff hinge is even worse both in terms of usability and durability.

Sunken hinges are bad because they keep the screen closer to the keyboard, which is poor ergonomics, especially if you've already got an extra short screen due to using a widescreen aspect ratio. In addition to the obvious neck problems, add in abbreviated keyboards that move the home row closer to the hinge and you can end up with the user's knuckles covering the bottom of the screen. They also make packaging more difficult or impossible for extended/removable batteries and basically preclude having rear-mounted ports.

Bob Morales posted:

Sunken hinges force the user to look another half inch downward at the screen which is bad. But it's common with convertibles since it allows the screen to open to 180 degrees

But you can already do that with regular hinges. Basically every Thinkpad since forever opens 180 degrees or more.

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at Jun 10, 2013 around 04:02

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Donald 'Duck' Dunn: "We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline."

(QuackJets.)
~SMcD


fookolt posted:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7047/...74500u-tested/5

Anandtech reviews a Haswell ultrabook. I've gone ahead and snipped the part I was most interested in:



Wait for Haswell indeed.

gently caress yes. This seems like a substantial boost; when's the last time that a new CPU was 150% as efficient as its predecessor?

dissss
Nov 10, 2007


Cream_Filling posted:

There are very few durable laptops that don't have some form of positive closure for the lid.

Annoyingly HP seems to be removing the latch from their EliteBooks - means they don't feel anywhere near as durable

punch drunk
Nov 12, 2006



Should I be looking in to Haswell for my next laptop or just get an older used one? I'm looking for something that can run Dota 2 smoothly on medium settings and has a decent screen for watching movies. Besides that I don't need much out of it. I have a job that lets me sit on my laptop for almost all of my shift and then I head home and plug it in to the wall and it sits on my desk. As such portability battery life and durability are all fairly unimportant. I'd be lookin to spend around ~600 if I was getting something new but I'm guessing I could find something for a great deal less used that would fulfill my needs.

Also, there's a monitor at work I can plug in to. Should I possibly look in to building a portable desktop? Is this even a thing?

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Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


QuarkJets posted:

gently caress yes. This seems like a substantial boost; when's the last time that a new CPU was 150% as efficient as its predecessor?

I don't even need > 7 hours battery life but I think my 13" rMBP is going to be for sale pretty dang soon

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