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Pumprag
Jan 29, 2013



I have been using a Lenovo T480 for a year ever since water destroyed my MacBook Air 2013, and I really donít understand why the thinkpads get recommended this often by every tech person I know.

The fan is spinning very loud every time I do anything and the chassis is still too hot to use as an actual laptop. Also the Laptop randomly wakes itself up from sleep, even when not attached to any peripherals and closed. Battery life is also only 4 hours, which is what bargain bin laptops from 2012 used to offer too.

And still, the performance in benchmarks I care about (which is not about rendering 4K video) is not that much better than on the air 2013.

Have Laptops actually gotten worse over the last years?
Or did I just buy the wrong machine?
Are there laptops with ok performance that arenít loud, heavy, have bad screens, bad keyboards or short battery life for less than 1300$\Ä ?

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Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



tbh you should probably stick to apple

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




I have a T480 for work and I agree quite a bit. The keyboard is nice and it is generally built well, but the thing is hot, loud, and doesn't have great battery life, and has a myriad of weird quirks (like waking up from sleep randomly and subpar monitor support from thunderbolt).

Seriously though, the thermal profile on these things is pretty terrible. It not only seems to run fans at 100% at a drop of the hat, but it still runs very hot.

I enjoyed my Surface Pro 3 as a work device a lot better and my personal XPS 13 romps on it in every way imaginable.

Tetrabor
Oct 14, 2018

Eight points of contact at all times!


Aviation regulations limit lithium batteries to 100wh, so you're not going to see any real battery optimization outside of Apple products. Smaller processor dies like the Ryzen will reduce battery usage though, Intel has yet to catch up on that front.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




I'm easily getting 8-10 hours with my XPS 13. The issue with the T480, from my experience, is very poor power management.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



bull3964 posted:

I have a T480 for work and I agree quite a bit. The keyboard is nice and it is generally built well, but the thing is hot, loud, and doesn't have great battery life, and has a myriad of weird quirks (like waking up from sleep randomly and subpar monitor support from thunderbolt).

Seriously though, the thermal profile on these things is pretty terrible. It not only seems to run fans at 100% at a drop of the hat, but it still runs very hot.

I enjoyed my Surface Pro 3 as a work device a lot better and my personal XPS 13 romps on it in every way imaginable.

It's a outdated design like JNCO jeans from the 90s, ultrabooks really have caught both for build quality and design like the XPS 13 2020.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Cough Drop The Beat posted:

Looks like the G15 SE has an excellent Ryzen 7 CPU, surprisingly solid high refresh rate display, and great battery life, but the AMD 5600M GPU is mediocre, even compared to older GPUs like the 1660 Ti, and the build quality is plastic trash. I don't really understand what Dell's target market for this is at $1200 when it isn't particularly cheap and is vastly surpassed by plenty of other laptops in the price range like the G14 or the upcoming Lenovo Legion 5 series.

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/dell-g5-15-se-2020

is the thinking that by making their lower end look like garbage it won't cannibalize their higher end products?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Man I would kill for a Ryzen 7 work notebook. Having that much compute would be so drat nice.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on


Pillbug

Cough Drop The Beat posted:

Looks like the G15 SE has an excellent Ryzen 7 CPU, surprisingly solid high refresh rate display, and great battery life, but the AMD 5600M GPU is mediocre, even compared to older GPUs like the 1660 Ti, and the build quality is plastic trash. I don't really understand what Dell's target market for this is at $1200 when it isn't particularly cheap and is vastly surpassed by plenty of other laptops in the price range like the G14 or the upcoming Lenovo Legion 5 series.

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/dell-g5-15-se-2020

Are the AMD drivers for laptop cards as hosed as their desktop ones?

Gruffalo Soldier
Feb 22, 2013



What's the thought on the latest gen of Thinkpads?

I've been rolling a T530, which I bought used, for about 5 or 6 years and while its still holding up quite nicely for general browsing stuff I'm looking to upgrade. Budget is max £1000, preferably a bit less.

My instinct is to stick with what I know so I'm waiting on a decently specced used T580 to come up on Ebay. I've heard some rumblings of a decline in quality on the T-series lately, is there anything to that? Whats about on Latitudes / Elitebooks? I know they used to be held up as viable alternatives to the T-Series, are there any other rivals in this tier?

It'll be used for some programming (PHP / Javascript stuff, some Docker) and music production. The music stuff can be quite hard on the processor, and the quad-core in my T530 has spoilt me. I am looking at T580 as this seems to be the furthest back I can go and get a quad-core processor. SSD / RAM can be cannibalised from my current laptop, maybe screen too, but if possible I'd like to go with FHD on the new one.

I had a look at the P-series but they all come with dedicated CAD graphics cards which will be completely wasted on me, I don't do any gaming these days either, and the tiny amount of video editing I do can afford the extra time an onboard graphics card will take. The cost and the hit to the battery don't really seem worth the trade-off.

I run Ubuntu as my daily OS and dual-boot with Windows for anything that needs it, so anything I get will have to play nice with Linux. This seems fairly standard these days but something I wanna keep in mind.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



I'd say the X-series especially Carbon is a better modern re-designed option for most people.

Also the X1 Carbon series has already gone through a pile of generations which incorporated design improvements based on lessons learned from the first gen.

The overall ultrabook concept has been really polished over the last few years and provide really great CPU performance / general use performance except for people who want to play the latest games.

etalian fucked around with this message at 12:32 on May 23, 2020

Gruffalo Soldier
Feb 22, 2013



etalian posted:

I'd say the X-series especially Carbon is a better modern re-designed option for most people.

Also the X1 Carbon series has already gone through a pile of generations which incorporated design improvements based on lessons learned from the first gen.

I don't really want to go down to a 14" screen, which would put me looking at the X1 Extreme lineup. While they look very tasty they are all about twice my budget!

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Gruffalo Soldier posted:

I don't really want to go down to a 14" screen, which would put me looking at the X1 Extreme lineup. While they look very tasty they are all about twice my budget!

For cost savings always go fishing for refurbs since the last gen often has big price discounts since the companies want to clear out old inventory.

A new X1E is really overpriced IMO compared to similar all in one options like the Dell XPS 15.

Gruffalo Soldier
Feb 22, 2013



etalian posted:

For cost savings always go fishing for refurbs since the last gen often has big price discounts since the companies want to clear out old inventory.

A new X1E is really overpriced IMO compared to similar all in one options like the Dell XPS 15.

Yeah I'll put the feelers out for a 1st gen X1 Extreme on Ebay, it's a long shot but worth a try I guess. Cheers

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Gruffalo Soldier posted:

Yeah I'll put the feelers out for a 1st gen X1 Extreme on Ebay, it's a long shot but worth a try I guess. Cheers

Supposedly the next X1E re-fresh is planned for later on this year which also helps to make the previous gens every cheaper for the refurb/used market.

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.

Gruffalo Soldier posted:

What's the thought on the latest gen of Thinkpads?

I've been rolling a T530, which I bought used, for about 5 or 6 years and while its still holding up quite nicely for general browsing stuff I'm looking to upgrade. Budget is max £1000, preferably a bit less.

My instinct is to stick with what I know so I'm waiting on a decently specced used T580 to come up on Ebay. I've heard some rumblings of a decline in quality on the T-series lately, is there anything to that? Whats about on Latitudes / Elitebooks? I know they used to be held up as viable alternatives to the T-Series, are there any other rivals in this tier?

It'll be used for some programming (PHP / Javascript stuff, some Docker) and music production. The music stuff can be quite hard on the processor, and the quad-core in my T530 has spoilt me. I am looking at T580 as this seems to be the furthest back I can go and get a quad-core processor. SSD / RAM can be cannibalised from my current laptop, maybe screen too, but if possible I'd like to go with FHD on the new one.

I had a look at the P-series but they all come with dedicated CAD graphics cards which will be completely wasted on me, I don't do any gaming these days either, and the tiny amount of video editing I do can afford the extra time an onboard graphics card will take. The cost and the hit to the battery don't really seem worth the trade-off.

I run Ubuntu as my daily OS and dual-boot with Windows for anything that needs it, so anything I get will have to play nice with Linux. This seems fairly standard these days but something I wanna keep in mind.

I'd look into the Asus Vivobook S15, a surprisingly excellent laptop with a speedy quad-core 10th gen i5 and 512GB SSD. It's the best thin and light 15", weighs under 4 lbs, and you can pick one up for $800 or less. https://www.asus.com/us/Laptops/ASU...ook-S15-S532FL/

Gruffalo Soldier
Feb 22, 2013



Cough Drop The Beat posted:

I'd look into the Asus Vivobook S15, a surprisingly excellent laptop with a speedy quad-core 10th gen i5 and 512GB SSD. It's the best thin and light 15", weighs under 4 lbs, and you can pick one up for $800 or less. https://www.asus.com/us/Laptops/ASU...ook-S15-S532FL/

Honestly one of the things I like about the T series is they have enough heft that you could kill a man with them if needed. I'm not sure thin and light is one of my priorities!

Also that screen pad thing they have going seems to me an answer to a question that nobody asked.

It does seem nicely specced though, thank you for the pointer, I'll keep an eye out.

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.

Gruffalo Soldier posted:

Honestly one of the things I like about the T series is they have enough heft that you could kill a man with them if needed. I'm not sure thin and light is one of my priorities!

Also that screen pad thing they have going seems to me an answer to a question that nobody asked.

It does seem nicely specced though, thank you for the pointer, I'll keep an eye out.

The screen pad thing seems incredibly stupid and pointless, but it seems you can turn it off and have a normal trackpad forever.

Shyfted One
May 9, 2008


What's a good 15" 2 in 1 laptop with a numeric pad for $800-$1200? I know nothing about convertible laptops, but my mom wants one for some reason. Gfx card isn't important as this thing is likely just going to run QuickBooks, excel, Facebook, and be used for Zoom.

strangehamster
Sep 20, 2010

dance the night away



Shyfted One posted:

What's a good 15" 2 in 1 laptop with a numeric pad for $800-$1200? I know nothing about convertible laptops, but my mom wants one for some reason. Gfx card isn't important as this thing is likely just going to run QuickBooks, excel, Facebook, and be used for Zoom.

Yoga C940 looks so nice.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Shyfted One posted:

What's a good 15" 2 in 1 laptop with a numeric pad for $800-$1200? I know nothing about convertible laptops, but my mom wants one for some reason. Gfx card isn't important as this thing is likely just going to run QuickBooks, excel, Facebook, and be used for Zoom.

For Highly Rated 2-1 Laptops

Dell 2-1 (No Number Pad)
Lenova Yoga Series (Has number pad for 15" model)
Microsoft Surface Line (No Number Pad)
HP Spectre (15")

I think the Yoga/Spectre 15" series is the only 2-1 off the top of my head that does offer a full num pad keyboard.

If the Num pad is a must have you have to go with the larger / heavier 15" model.

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/yoga/products#convertible

etalian fucked around with this message at 15:06 on May 24, 2020

E2M2
Mar 2, 2007

Ain't No Thang.

So does this seem good?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...5d-b31d6b1bfbee

Also whats the difference between a Yoga and Flex?

edit: gently caress it I bought it. I just got a used Yoga 730 and it seems like the lid sensor is busted so I'm just gonna return that.

E2M2 fucked around with this message at 19:42 on May 24, 2020

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



E2M2 posted:

So does this seem good?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...5d-b31d6b1bfbee

Also whats the difference between a Yoga and Flex?

edit: gently caress it I bought it. I just got a used Yoga 730 and it seems like the lid sensor is busted so I'm just gonna return that.

The Yoga series has better build quality given how it in the 1000+ price range for the newer models.


Sub $500-700 laptops have lots of noticeable design compromises to reach that price point such as lower build quality such as using plastic for the entire body inside of aluminum.

etalian fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 24, 2020

E2M2
Mar 2, 2007

Ain't No Thang.

etalian posted:

The Yoga series has better build quality given how it in the 1000+ price range for the newer models.


Sub $500-700 laptops have lots of noticeable design compromises to reach that price point such as lower build quality such as using plastic for the entire body inside of aluminum.

Yeah I think I'll be okay with that considering the specs are better than the Yoga 730 I was coming from.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





etalian posted:

The Yoga series has better build quality given how it in the 1000+ price range for the newer models.


Sub $500-700 laptops have lots of noticeable design compromises to reach that price point such as lower build quality such as using plastic for the entire body inside of aluminum.

As I say about once a quarter, I need to update the OP, it still says $640 is the minimum you should spend on a laptop, really needs to be updated for inflation to about $700-750

Looks like a baseline T400 series laptop is running about $720 these days so that's about $80 worth of inflation over 7 years... according to an online calculator I just consulted it should be about $705 sooo yeah $720 is about right considering almost nothing has changed in laptop technology since then except that nvme is common and ram went down per gb but 16gb costs what 4/8gb did 7 years ago.

fake edit: holy poo poo this thread is 7 years old

SebAndSeb
Apr 23, 2007

hello


Cough Drop The Beat posted:

The HP Spectre x360 seems perfect for your needs. It's a speedy, highly capable 2-in-1 ultrabook with long battery life and solid build quality that includes a stylus for its accurate touchscreen. You can flip it around from standard laptop to a 13" tablet in seconds, so no having to compromise.

Late reply but thanks for the recommend and following discussion. Another thought did occur to me that I could also just keep the SP3 for drawing with a clean windows install and not worry about it so much for the new one. I did the reinstall the other day anyway so I guess I'll see how it goes.

In terms of a regular laptop are XPS and ThinkPad still the most popular? I have a Precision 5540 for work which I guess is identical to an XPS 15 from the outside. It is pretty sweet but I've heard a bit about them being overpriced.

Any opinions on the Surface Laptop line, they seem quite pricey too, is there much to recommend them? On that note, how is bloatware in the laptop world, are any brands particularly bad?

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



E2M2 posted:

Yeah I think I'll be okay with that considering the specs are better than the Yoga 730 I was coming from.

In general any thing with Idea with Lenova I believe shows that it's the lower cost product line so expect corner cutting in overall build quality to achieve the sub 700/1000 pricepoint,


SebAndSeb posted:

In terms of a regular laptop are XPS and ThinkPad still the most popular? I have a Precision 5540 for work which I guess is identical to an XPS 15 from the outside. It is pretty sweet but I've heard a bit about them being overpriced.

Any opinions on the Surface Laptop line, they seem quite pricey too, is there much to recommend them? On that note, how is bloatware in the laptop world, are any brands particularly bad?


Well the precision series for Dell is a workstation/desktop replacement product line. Regular consumers are better served by the XPS 15 for a all in one / content creator laptop.

Surface laptops are pretty decent "apple inspired" build quality especially if you find them on a yearly sale.

HP has the worst bloatware in my experience.

etalian fucked around with this message at 11:41 on May 25, 2020

buffbus
Nov 19, 2012


SebAndSeb posted:

In terms of a regular laptop are XPS and ThinkPad still the most popular? I have a Precision 5540 for work which I guess is identical to an XPS 15 from the outside. It is pretty sweet but I've heard a bit about them being overpriced.

Yes the precision 55xx series is basically an XPS15 with Xeon CPUs and Quadro GPUs available. I have had a 5510 for about 4 years and it has been a great laptop. So much so I have held off on having work replace it, though that will come to an end soon as the battery is approaching half capacity.

From what I understand, the 7xxx series are a bit more chonky but will sustain boosts longer.

4000 Dollar Suit
Dec 11, 2005

I rarely go into the field, motherfucker.

x1 carbons are made of magnesium and carbon fiber right? I just watched a linus video where he said they are plastic and now I am unsure.

4000 Dollar Suit fucked around with this message at 15:11 on May 25, 2020

buffbus
Nov 19, 2012



I believe they are called carbon because they use carbon fiber. Most laptops in this price range do still use magnesium for the frame and bottom panel though. Guessing a mix of the two.

4000 Dollar Suit
Dec 11, 2005

I rarely go into the field, motherfucker.

You guys think its worth getting a x1 carbon 7th gen with 8gb ram and the i5 8265u for 1000 over the Yoga c490 for 50 bux more with the i7 1065g7, I know obviously the yoga has newer generation cpu and 4gb more ram but it's i/o doesn't really touch the x1's, the 2-1 thing is pretty cool and I would probably use it once in a blue moon, but the shiny screen might bother me, and overall I like the general aesthetic of the x1 more but don't wanna gimp myself too hard with that 8th gen i5 and low ram, honestly I could go either way was just curious what the general consensus would be.

ps I already have a really nice pc for heavy lifting this is more of a cool toy for myself.

drat I guess the yogas sold out in like 10 minutes of the sale going up

4000 Dollar Suit fucked around with this message at 16:10 on May 25, 2020

SebAndSeb
Apr 23, 2007

hello


etalian posted:

Well the precision series for Dell is a workstation/desktop replacement product line. Regular consumers are better served by the XPS 15 for a all in one / content creator laptop.

Surface laptops are pretty decent "apple inspired" build quality especially if you find them on a yearly sale.

HP has the worst bloatware in my experience.

Oh yeah I wasn't thinking of looking at a Precision for myself, just that it was a point of comparison for the XPS.

The Lenovo website is blowing my mind a little bit, so many models.

waffle
May 12, 2001
HEH


I'm debating between a MBP 13 and a Windows machine for work--don't need a touchscreen, want a decent processor (but doesn't need to be the fastest thing out there), light, and I want really good battery life... I don't really have a target price.

Between MacOS and Windows it's gonna be up to my preference ultimately, of course, but what's the best MBP-like 13" Windows machine? I'm seeing good reviews for the Dell XPS 13 and recommendations here, is there anything else worth looking at?

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



which OS do your support people have more experience with lol

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.

waffle posted:

I'm debating between a MBP 13 and a Windows machine for work--don't need a touchscreen, want a decent processor (but doesn't need to be the fastest thing out there), light, and I want really good battery life... I don't really have a target price.

Between MacOS and Windows it's gonna be up to my preference ultimately, of course, but what's the best MBP-like 13" Windows machine? I'm seeing good reviews for the Dell XPS 13 and recommendations here, is there anything else worth looking at?

I'd go for the XPS 13 because it's the best MBP-like Windows laptop on the market and working in a Windows environment with a Mac tends to be hell and it's best to avoid whenever possible.

Gruffalo Soldier
Feb 22, 2013



Gruffalo Soldier posted:

What's the thought on the latest gen of Thinkpads?

I've been rolling a T530, which I bought used, for about 5 or 6 years and while its still holding up quite nicely for general browsing stuff I'm looking to upgrade. Budget is max £1000, preferably a bit less
...

Just pulled the trigger on a used T580 with an 8th gen I7 in it for £650 on ebay. Pretty happy with that, assuming it turns up.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



waffle posted:

I'm debating between a MBP 13 and a Windows machine for work--don't need a touchscreen, want a decent processor (but doesn't need to be the fastest thing out there), light, and I want really good battery life... I don't really have a target price.

Between MacOS and Windows it's gonna be up to my preference ultimately, of course, but what's the best MBP-like 13" Windows machine? I'm seeing good reviews for the Dell XPS 13 and recommendations here, is there anything else worth looking at?

Well it depends on your price range but I know the 2020 Dell XPS 13 was highly rated this year for the traditional clam-shell factor.

Other good compact premium build options are X1 Carbon, MS Surface Laptop, HP Spectre (2-1) and HP Dragonfly (2-1)

xgalaxy
Jan 27, 2004
i write code

Just received the new Dell XPS 15. Wasn't expecting it for another two weeks.. came early.

The Big Jesus
Oct 29, 2007
Bigger than regular Jesus, but smaller than Bigger Jesus.

Really would like some more info on the 17 like... Even a release date? Or maybe some benchmarks

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xgalaxy
Jan 27, 2004
i write code

This is my first time buying a Dell. Supposedly this thing came with McAfee and Office subscriptions. Do I have to worry about auto renewal? I'd really like to just deactivate them immediately.

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