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After six years of doing my damnedest to keep my sister's old Lenovo IdeaPad in service (memory upgrades, clean Win10 install), we've finally hit a hard limit: Win10 keeps trying to auto install display drivers that cause the system to hard lock and glitch whenever it tries to boot out of Safe Mode. We've been getting by these past couple months by using ancient Win7 drivers (Lenovo obviously does not support Win10 on the machine) and disabling updates, but clearly it needs to be retired out. Now that the Back-to-School sales are here, it time to buy and I need a starting point. First of all, sub-$500. Yes, I read the OP, but this is the hard limit: anything above that will not be considered, no matter how impassioned the argument. Other than that, she already has a Yoga for college work, so this is a personal machine for drawing, videos, and very light gaming. She prefers her USB-A Bamboo tablet for drawing, and told me the touchscreen will see little if any use. She explicitly wants a "decent display and plenty of storage", though just about anything we buy today will likely be an improvement on the 2012-ish model she currently has there. She'd also prefer it be "chunky": she did not like the little things machines out on display at Best Buy and would rather have something heater like what she has now. So, sub-$500, USB-A ports, display, storage, and (large-ish) size are our main criteria, in that order of priority. Where should we start looking?
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Jul 21, 2018 20:59
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Get the best refurbished Thinkpad you can find for $500 Probably a T460 with a 1080p screen https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thi...&LH_TitleDesc=0
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Jul 21, 2018 21:30
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roomforthetuna posted:That's a bad assumption. I take my work laptop home every day, and I use it at home about once a week. It's there in case I have to do some work, not because I plan to do some work. (I do laptop updates at work during work hours, because I also have a desktop machine at work that's what I'm using if I'm at my desk, so it's not disruptive to update the laptop.) That's fine; if you were to leave it plugged in and on when not using it that should allow the OS to update during downtime. Obviously having a 2nd PC available is an advantage (and is also something I advocate.) roomforthetuna posted:Negligible isn't nothing Like I said, math or STFU. We'll calculate your electricity costs at ~45 W over ~8 hours (both numbers being wildly pessimistic, since you're not going to have to update for that long, and more than once a week or so.) Note that you're being paid by your employer, and this would go towards covering those negligible electricity costs. There are certain things that might come out of your pocket, (but really ultimately out of the employer's pocket,) as an expectation of employment, and maintaining a secure computing environment is one of those expectations, especially if you're connecting a mobile device to a company network. Also note that, while employees are reimbursed for travel, they are not for their daily commute, so very broadly the gas for your car and the electricity to update your work laptop overnight are two things you're going to have to suck up and pay for if you'd like to continue to be employed. roomforthetuna posted:your second ridiculous claim was that updating laptops at night is "literally no action". Believe it or not, Windows updates have been automatic for quite some time, which literally means without intervention. Windows has become pretty good at doing stuff in the background and figuring out when you're not using the system, so as long as you don't intervene (by powering down the system or postponing updates,) yes, your laptop will update overnight with literally no action from you. roomforthetuna posted:Yes, all this discussion could have been avoided by not making the ridiculous claim that doing laptop updates at night is literally the easiest thing in the list "doing laptop updates at night", "not embezzling/stealing", "not being illiterate" and "not being tardy". I'm not arguing for daytime software updates, I'm just calling out that claim as comically ridiculous. Remember, this argument began because Truga said that his employees were trying to interrupt their midday OS updates and that an HDD indicator light was the solution to that.  And yes, letting your PC update itself is by definition the easiest thing you could do from a wide range of work-related activities, because again, it's automatic. On top of that, there are indeed performance- and security-related consequences to failing to properly update computer systems, so while most of the time your PC isn't going to explode if you don't immediately apply updates, there can indeed be costs. If you don't believe me, contact your IS/IT department (after you contact HR, of course!  )Bob Morales posted:Laptops are annoying because it's not like a network of desktops that you can run updates on and such at night. Kind of, yeah, but if there's some major security flaw it's "You MUST update your laptop IMMEDIATELY so you don't jeopardize the rest of the organization...." Atomizer fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 21:56
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Please take windows update chat to the windows thread(s) we're chatting about laptops here Thank you You guys can hold your e-peen contest here, I'm sure they would love to hear all about it: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3327309
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Jul 21, 2018 22:01
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Hadlock posted:Please take windows update chat to the windows thread(s) we're chatting about laptops here Atomizer posted:
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Jul 21, 2018 23:57
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looking for a laptop that gets updates, any good options?
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Jul 22, 2018 00:02
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Tsyni posted:looking for a laptop that gets updates, any good options? hi yes, have you tried the ipad pro
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Jul 22, 2018 00:59
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Hadlock posted:Get the best refurbished Thinkpad you can find for $500 that's a hecking solid deal right there
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Jul 22, 2018 01:41
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I bought a thing! Hopefully it doesn't suck.
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Jul 22, 2018 02:56
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Foxfire_ posted:I bought a thing! Hopefully it doesn't suck. I, uh, if you bought it for anywhere near the current price I'd consider that an overpay for a 1060 3 GB.  I mean, the CPU, RAM, and storage are all good, but I push that Helios 300 really hard because it's only ~$1k for a 1060 6 GB (and the 3 GB version is more like a 1055, it's not a full 1060.)Also that brand of laptop is CU[c]K, which is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your sense of humor.
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Jul 22, 2018 03:31
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It's a work machine, not for gaming. It's purpose in life is to increase the size of datasets I can work on before having to bother with writing code to stream to/from disk. The only reason it needs any discrete gpu is to allow unit tests of CUDA stuff; the speed is basically irrelevant for me. I'm mostly worried the keyboard will be mushy and terrible. Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 05:22
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Hadlock posted:Ok my XPS 15 9570 finally shipped When did you order? My purchase date was on the 8th, still just "Confirmed"
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Jul 22, 2018 05:55
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So I ordered an Alienware 13 on sale a couple weeks ago. I was totally prepared to pull it apart and repaste the CPU and GPU, and add a heat sink to the PCH based on some thermal horror stories online. Fortunately in benchmarks and games I’m maxing out under 80C and showing within a few C on all 4 cores. I did a battery rundown test and got just under 6 hours of watching giant bomb, so the battery life is pretty impressive to me. The OLED screen is dope as hell except in sunlight where the ultragloss finish turns it into a mirror. I turned off all the goofy LEDs except for the ones under the keyboard at minimum brightness so it’s looking pretty normal. Overall this thing is a beast with a 7700 and a 1060 in a 13” laptop.
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Jul 22, 2018 19:57
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AgentCow007 posted:When did you order? My purchase date was on the 8th, still just "Confirmed" June 24 on Amazon, they just came back in to stock Was your purchase date June 8 or July 8? Long lead times for new, popular laptops is not uncommon, Lenovo has ~2 week lead times for any Thinkpad that isn't a big standard T series.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:07
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Atomizer posted:That Asus looks like it only has a regular 1050; you can get the 1050 Ti in a laptop for ~$700 nowadays, e.g. the Acer Nitro 5.  v
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Jul 22, 2018 20:20
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Hadlock posted:June 24 on Amazon, they just came back in to stock It was July 8, and ordered directly from Dell. My order just got a new note on it that says "Your custom build is complete" so it might have been lagged from upgrading to Win10 Pro. I'm waiting for the order to implode though. It says my payment was processed, but the pending transaction timed out at my bank (and I've since moved and changed billing addresses so re-billing might not go through). I tried to call them and update my billing info but they said it already went through and didn't want to cancel/restart the order. Maybe they just want to send me a free laptop? That'd be fine with me, but it would suck if they cancelled the order and I had to wait another 3-4 weeks.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:20
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1070 laptop for...$1070!  Reconditioned, on Woot. Pros: 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, NVMe SSD & HDD, price, GPU. Con: 17"
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Jul 22, 2018 22:40
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Lol a 17” 1080P screen
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Jul 23, 2018 02:50
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Lol a 17” 1080P screen Oh, we only use the finest pixels, each lovingly ensconced and clearly delimited for your viewing pleasure.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:58
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Lol a 17” 1080P screen Size:resolution ratio is fine for gaming. The actual size itself just sucks for portability beyond occasionally bringing it to a friends house or something. It's a good deal for what it is, imo. Which is why he posted it, but noted the caveat.
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Jul 23, 2018 03:06
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Lol a 17” 1080P screen Considering you can still get that size display with a lower resolution, such as from, I dunno, how about HP, I consider FHD a win even in this scenario. Statutory Ape posted:Size:resolution ratio is fine for gaming. The actual size itself just sucks for portability beyond occasionally bringing it to a friends house or something. Yeah the resolution is still fine for modern games (although to be fair it's a little low for a 1070 considering it's not even a G-Sync or high-refresh rate panel) but the size is totally unnecessary, as Ape mentions. That being said I wouldn't blame anyone for using it as a desktop replacement, since the price is still acceptable for the performance and it doesn't even need a RAM or SSD upgrade, and it's at least technically portable, certainly more so than any desktop + monitor + keyboard combo. You'd need a mouse for any LAN party gaming session with either a desktop or laptop, but you could even justify not needing to bring a headset with the laptop whereas the desktop would need some kind of audio output. Don't get me wrong, I don't work for Woot or HP or anything like that and I'm not going to buy this laptop, but as far as recommendations go normally I push the Helios 300 because it's such a great deal, but at least for the next couple of hours this is an even better deal at the same price (note the Helios needs an HDD upgrade to be comparable.)
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Jul 23, 2018 03:48
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Atomizer posted:Considering you can still get that size display with a lower resolution, such as from, I dunno, how about HP, I consider FHD a win even in this scenario. It's also smaller pixels than the next common resolution down would be on a 15" screen.
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Jul 23, 2018 04:03
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lol at "1080p 17" LMAO" type comments Popular gaming monitors are 144hz at 1080p on 24" displays, and it's only once you hit 27" that 1440p becomes mainstream, and that's not a size everybody can fit on their desk. 1080p at 17" is just fine, especially if you're only planning to use the screen for gaming.
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Jul 23, 2018 06:10
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WQHD owns though
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Jul 23, 2018 07:27
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:lol at "1080p 17" LMAO" type comments I have one of these 27" Dell monitors on an adjustable arm so that it floats above my desk and can be moved out of the way as needed, highly recommend: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01D402VQS/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'm using it on a reasonably tiny 55" x 24" Ikea Bekant desk for the last 8 months, works brilliantly https://m.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/spr/39006355/ I have the same monitor at work, actually bought the same monitor for home use because i loved the redesigned arm mechanism so much.
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Jul 23, 2018 10:01
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I have no idea if it's possible for a PC to damage its attached peripherals, but my 1.5-year-old monitor starting to fail at the exact same time as my speakers get fried suggests that maybe the PC they're attached to is the culprit. I don't really know if that's the case or if it's just a very annoying coincidence, but the PC is a very old custom build and the only thing that's seen updates since I built it in 2012 is the GPU, so  Anyway I'm considering retiring the PC and switching to playing what few PC-exclusive games I play on my XPS 15 9570. Thing is, I know the XPS 15 isn't a "gaming machine." It has a 1050Ti and everything, but at least when it comes to cooling it definitely isn't built for multi-hour gaming sessions. Is that something I should be concerned about when it comes to the long-term health of the laptop, given how hard the fans have to run? I also don't like needing to leave it plugged in the whole time I'm playing, too, I'm sure that isn't great for the battery.
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Jul 23, 2018 13:53
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Harrow posted:I have no idea if it's possible for a PC to damage its attached peripherals, but my 1.5-year-old monitor starting to fail at the exact same time as my speakers get fried suggests that maybe the PC they're attached to is the culprit. I don't really know if that's the case or if it's just a very annoying coincidence, but the PC is a very old custom build and the only thing that's seen updates since I built it in 2012 is the GPU, so
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Jul 23, 2018 14:21
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It is possible, through power surges from a failing PSU. That said, power surges strong enough to mess up speakers are also proooooobably gonna turn your computer into a smoking crater, so I'd imagine you'd have figured that part out already, were it the case. On the other hand, power surges from the mains (assuming neither your monitor nor your speakers are on a surge protector/UPS) could very possibly have damaged them, and would explain the simultaneous timing. Either way, a 6+ year old PSU is probably due for replacement, unless you bought one with a 10+ year warranty on it.
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Jul 23, 2018 15:00
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Hadlock posted:Ok my XPS 15 9570 finally shipped I can check it out and post a trip report - I may be able to play some games tonight, although I don't have the named ones.
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Jul 23, 2018 15:04
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DrDork posted:It is possible, through power surges from a failing PSU. That said, power surges strong enough to mess up speakers are also proooooobably gonna turn your computer into a smoking crater, so I'd imagine you'd have figured that part out already, were it the case. I've had a set of speakers get fried while attached to this thing before but that was definitely due to a power surge from the wall outlet--it happened right after a power outage. This time, both the monitor and the speakers are plugged into a power strip with a surge protector, and we haven't had any power fluctuations that I've noticed at the new apartment, so I'm skeptical that could be the cause. If that's the case about the PSU, then it probably isn't that, either. It's not totally simultaneous, either. The speakers died last week (started blasting out static no matter what I plugged them into) and the monitor just started acting up yesterday (specifically, I noticed a couple of flashes where everything got a blue tint for a few frames, which I've never seen this monitor do before). Maybe it really is just a pain in the rear end coincidence. If the monitor's making GBS threads the bed then I guess I'll be playing on my laptop anyway until I buy another new monitor I wonder if I should've upgraded my poor, elderly desktop instead of getting a new laptop. I don't really play PC-exclusive games all that often, though, I just happen to be doing so now so it's annoying timing I guess.
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Jul 23, 2018 15:24
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My T460 is starting to struggle with the multiple chrome instances, slack, and whatsapp that my work requires. My employer is helping fund a new laptop (yay!), and since it's sale season and this is doubles as my personal machine I'd like to angle for something that can run Overwatch well on an attached monitor. Last time we did this they tried to push me into the $500 budget trap, and I ended up with the T460 after some negotiation. I correctly predicted how soon I would need to replace it, so I can argue for more budget this time. But anything $1k or above will be tough. I can contribute a few hundred of my own if I have to, but I'm pretty broke so I'd rather not. I'm flexible on OS and screen size. What should I be looking at? Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 16:33
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Unsinkabear posted:My T460 is starting to struggle with the multiple chrome instances, slack, and whatsapp that my work requires. My employer is helping fund a new laptop (yay!), and since it's sale season and this is doubles as my personal machine I'd like to angle for something that can run Overwatch well on an attached monitor. What about a T480?
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Jul 23, 2018 16:44
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Bob Morales posted:What about a T480? On their website it looks like the base model uses integrated graphics, which I'm assuming won't cut it for Overwatch any better than my T460. I played around with configuration options and if you want their discrete graphics card you have to upgrade the processor. That alone bumps the price up to $1015. Upgrading to the cheapest IPS display option, 256gb SSD, and 8gb of ram (correct me if I'm wrong but 4gb seems dangerously low) puts me at $1180 I like Thinkpads but is it still my best option at that price point?
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Jul 23, 2018 17:18
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Harrow posted:I've had a set of speakers get fried while attached to this thing before but that was definitely due to a power surge from the wall outlet--it happened right after a power outage. This time, both the monitor and the speakers are plugged into a power strip with a surge protector, and we haven't had any power fluctuations that I've noticed at the new apartment, so I'm skeptical that could be the cause. If that's the case about the PSU, then it probably isn't that, either. Not all surge protectors are equal. I've been using/recommending these Belkin surge protectors since the days of cable modems that would get half-baked by bad power and then frequently disconnect. It's got some kind of "protected devices warranty" that I've never cashed in on, but I think they're built better because of it. https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BE112230-08-12-Outlet-Power-Protector/dp/B000J2EN4S
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Jul 23, 2018 17:19
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Unsinkabear posted:I like Thinkpads but is it still my best option at that price point? "Best option" is a loose term. Is it the best hardware specs you can get for $1k? No. But the ThinkPad has legendary build quality and durability, far more than what you'd get out of the highest-specced (and thus lowest build quality) $1k laptop you can find. If it's just gonna sit on a desk all day, though, you could probably get away with something a bit less durable, and thus either cheaper or better specced.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:34
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AgentCow007 posted:Not all surge protectors are equal. I've been using/recommending these Belkin surge protectors since the days of cable modems that would get half-baked by bad power and then frequently disconnect. It's got some kind of "protected devices warranty" that I've never cashed in on, but I think they're built better because of it. Yeah, I think I'll order one of those just in case. I don't think anything has happened since I got this new monitor and the speakers that just died that would've caused a power surge through the outlet, but I guess better safe than sorry. Also that just looks easier to plug things into than my current power strip so hey
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Jul 23, 2018 17:36
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Unsinkabear posted:On their website it looks like the base model uses integrated graphics, which I'm assuming won't cut it for Overwatch any better than my T460. I played around with configuration options and if you want their discrete graphics card you have to upgrade the processor. That alone bumps the price up to $1015. Upgrading to the cheapest IPS display option, 256gb SSD, and 8gb of ram (correct me if I'm wrong but 4gb seems dangerously low) puts me at $1180 Did you try the Barnes and Noble Lenovo discount?
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Jul 23, 2018 17:39
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Harrow posted:Yeah, I think I'll order one of those just in case. I don't think anything has happened since I got this new monitor and the speakers that just died that would've caused a power surge through the outlet, but I guess better safe than sorry. Also that just looks easier to plug things into than my current power strip so hey I don't trust any utility power anywhere. Using a UPS seems like a no-brainer to me. I've got one for my tower, monitor and a few externals and a separate one for a fancy TV. Almost all of them have a surge plug/bank that doesn't use the battery for less important stuff like speakers. Being able to see exact voltage coming in, the exact load being used and if there were any issues is a nice peace of mind. (My last place would frequently undervolt from the wall)
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Jul 23, 2018 18:11
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DrDork posted:"Best option" is a loose term. Is it the best hardware specs you can get for $1k? No. But the ThinkPad has legendary build quality and durability, far more than what you'd get out of the highest-specced (and thus lowest build quality) $1k laptop you can find. Fair point. It does sit on the desk 99% of the time, but in that other 1% it's in the messenger bag of a fairly uncoordinated person who WILL smack it into stuff. It has come with me to interviews, flown internationally, gotten hauled around Berlin for 3 months (again getting smacked into stuff), and been dropped a few times. So even though I want portability I do appreciate (and maybe need?) that ThinkPad durability. Bob Morales posted:Did you try the Barnes and Noble Lenovo discount? I have now! That brings the total down to $988.25 for the T480, and $1144.36 for an equivalent T480s. What can I expect from the MX150 in there? I know benchmarks are stupid and I'm stupid for caring about how a laptop runs games, but I'm seeing things like "75% worse than a 1050" and that makes me wonder if it will even support the light Blizzard gaming I want from it for very long.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:20
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Unsinkabear posted:Fair point. It does sit on the desk 99% of the time, but in that other 1% it's in the messenger bag of a fairly uncoordinated person who WILL smack it into stuff. It has come with me to interviews, flown internationally, gotten hauled around Berlin for 3 months (again getting smacked into stuff), and been dropped a few times. So even though I want portability I do appreciate (and maybe need?) that ThinkPad durability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS1ZF_-OWWQ Not sure how much that setup with throttle or whatever in a particular laptop
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Jul 23, 2018 19:27
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