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Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Srebrenica Surprise posted:

No HD5000 on the 35W -M parts Am I the only one that couldn't give a drat about CPU performance to the detriment of GPU performance in stuff that isn't Ultrabooks (especially with turbo hitting mid-2ghz in dual core operation anyway)? It seems like for most "mainstream laptop" work, CPU performance is already good enough. HD4600 as the baseline is hardly very exciting.

There's an HD5100 dual core part at 28 W (i7-4558U). That might be a decent option if you can forgo having a quadcore. I imagine the lack of bigger GPUs on lower power quad-core CPUs has everything to do with how much wattage the GPU takes.

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Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

It looks like the X1 carbon doesn't ship with a chip >15W. I guess a 28W GT3 Haswell dual core is kind of out of the question for light ultrabooks isn't it?

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

T-Shaped posted:

Any idea of when Lenovo will start announcing Thinkpad whatnot?

I think I saw someone throw out the date June 13th in either this thread or the Intel CPU thread recently. I don't know for certain.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Shofixti posted:

I'm in the same boat. My first choice would be a Haswell Thinkpad but I can't wait until September/October and Lenovo seems determined to make the release dates as opaque as possible. I might just suck it up and get an Air with boot camp.

Lenovo just announced the Thinkpad S531 but it comes with an Ivy Bridge chip. What were they thinking?

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

mmm11105 posted:

That is a Clevo W740SU underneath, I believe. Given that it's a clevo, I'm unsure how well the build quality will hold up, but drat that thing looks impressive on paper (1080p matte + Iris Pro).

That's a really serious CPU in terms of TDP rating for an ultrabook.

I'm holding out a faint hope that we see a Haswell-Yoga with a pen-digitizer. I was watching videos of handwriting on the Surface Pro in Onenote this weekend and it seems really cool. I'm already a heavy Onenote user and being able to doodle in them sounds pretty fantastic.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

RVProfootballer posted:

Does anyone have a good idea how the HD5000 vs. 5100 vs. 5200 shakes out? As far as I can tell, HD5000 and 5100 are both available with ULV cpus, but the HD5100 itself is like double the power draw? Then the HD5200 only comes with mobile quad-core, non-ULV chips, and is again double the power draw of the 5100? I remember reading that the 13" rMBP had some performance issues. Is the 3200x1800 screen in the new Samsung laptop, with a Core i5-4200U and HD4400, really going to avoid those kinds of problems? I'd rather have only like 8 hours battery life, if it means the thing actually runs significantly better.

Anandtech has an interesting discussion: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7072/...4000-vs-hd-4400

The real answer is that the sum of the power used by the chip won't exceed the TDP rating. Therefore, the real difference between the 5000 and the 5100 isn't that the GPUs are different, just that the 5100 is allowed the power headroom to actually run at higher frequencies. The above linked article talks about how in the low-power chips like the one in the MacBook air, load on the GPU can force the CPU to downclock and vice versa. In their benchmarks the 5000 in the air doesn't really drastically outperform the 4400, which you might expect it to given that it's twice the GPU on paper.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Has anyone used the Dell Latitude 6430u Ultrabook? I know it hasn't been upgraded to Haswell yet, but it seems like it's a decent looking machine. There are a lot of 13.3" notebooks but fewer 14" ones besides the X1 carbon. Is it worth considering after it's upgraded?

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

InstantInfidel posted:

If you have room for that laptop, you have room for an mITX desktop that will outperform and outlast that laptop while running you about the same amount of money. If you buy that laptop, you're wasting money.

If you want to go ahead anyway, then yeah, I guess that's the best thing you can get, but only because everything else is worse. Added bonus, the glowing logo is a free contraceptive! But seriously, that logo is huge and gaudy, keep that in mind if you have judgemental friends.

Put another way, the advantage of a small form-factor desktop over a laptop in a situation where you're never going to move it is that you can upgrade the video card in two years and keep playing all the brand new games. There are a lot of people in the Intel thread still using machines with C2Quad Q6600 chips that they've had for years. Since GPUs become obsolete so much faster than every other component, gaming laptops have a shorter usable lifespan simply because the GPUs get old really fast.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

doomtuba posted:

I just got a Sony Vaio Pro 13 today and the thing is amazing. I obviously haven't had it long enough to test the battery life extensively, but for my light tasks (Internet, Word and music) I've used it for a couple of hours nonstop setting it up and it's still only down to 77%.

Do you have any issues with the body flex that some of the reviews have complained about? I'm looking at this notebook too, especially since it's so light.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

VorpalFish posted:

I just looked at the 11 inch model of that, and it's almost perfect, except they don't offer a processor option with the GT3 GPU configuration. Anyone know if the laptop I'm looking for exists yet? (probably not I'm really picky)

-Small; 11.6" is ideal, up to 14" acceptable
-under 3 pounds
-IPS panel with a minimum resolution of 1080p
-haswell with GT3 GPU configuration

I've seen a few things that are almost there, but nothing perfect. Am I out of luck? I don't care what it costs.

You should take a look at this Anandtech article:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7072/...4000-vs-hd-4400

The quick summary is that the 5000 in the low power packages used in the MacBook air barely outperforms the old Ivy bridge 4000 in most benchmarks, even though it's more than twice the GPU on paper. It's limited by power usage when part of the lower-power chips. That's probably why you're going to see a lot of 4400's out there and few 5000's. I suspect that the reason Intel gave the Iris 5100 chips a different name (when they really differ only by allowed TDP) is that the GT3 GPU configuration is really power constrained in the 17W chips and will perform much better in the 28W chips.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Revol posted:

...huh. That's weird. Why such a varying distance in the MBA review? Borderlands 2 gets a few percentage points, but Tomb Raider gets 40%?

This is total speculation on my part, but maybe the Tomb Raider benchmark is pretty light on the CPU and that leaves power headroom for the GPU to take up?

Regarding the XPS 12, I just wish there wasn't so much bezel on that design. It almost looks like they could have done a 13.3" screen in the same frame.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

I was just looking at customizing a Dell Latitude 6430u through my University's Premier site and I couldn't believe the difference in available options versus the regular Dell website. I can configure one with an i7 and 16 GB of RAM and neither are options on the regular site. There's also a choice of 5 different wireless cards plus 4 different mobile broadband options.
Who knew?

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

shrughes posted:

It won't cause problems, the only problem is that they're usually underpowered. I mean a Thinkpad W530 or Dell Precision will have a pretty unimpressive GPU considering the cost (it isn't as good as the GT 650M), and the previous generation of Latitudes had very weak NVS 5200M GPUs that exist just for some low performance purpose like multi-monitor. They were the same GPU you'd see on the Lenovo T430s, generally speaking the Latitude E6xxx was Dell's alternative to the Thinkpad T-series last year. But weirdly enough the new Latitude E6540 is now for sale with an i7-4800MQ and a Radeon 8790M. You can't order a configurable build yet, but the pre-configured one you can order is smarItly chosen and $1400-something.

I'm not sure that's quite a good choice, unless a 15" 5.6 lb laptop is a good choice.

My experience has been different. I have a Dell Precision M4400 with a Quadro 770FX card and driver support has been horrible as the PC has aged. The most recent Dell driver is several years old and isn't stable on Windows 8. The more-recent Nvidia reference drivers cause the PC to hard-lock almost instantly unless you disable all GPU power management. This GPU was only used in like 2 models of laptop and even though you can find many instances of people complaining about this problem, there has never been and likely never will be a fix. This is one risk of the uncommon professional style cards.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

arisu posted:

Here's an example of Intel HD5000 in action on a Haswell Macbook Air:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaxcXp3jygQ

HD4600 isn't as good but still good enough for some people, look up some youtube examples.

Here's an HD4600 video with Battlefield 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a88Qz9pzQJY

If that's good enough for you then you probably don't need a dedicated graphics card. It might struggle on some of the AAA titles coming out later but I imagine you can always turn the settings down.

In a CPU without a drastically constrained TDP, there are likely going to be situations where the 4600 is actually faster than the 5000 in a thermally constrained chip despite the difference in the number of cores.
This anandtech article details how the GPU in the air essentially has to share a very small power budget with the CPU (17W total) and that in cases where you're near TDP and using a lot of both CPU and GPU, you do so at the cost of clockspeed in one or both components.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7072/...4000-vs-hd-4400
Since the 4700 is a 47W CPU/GPU, it'll probably be faster than the MacBook air with its 5000 simply because the 4600 GPU will be able to spend more time at high clockspeeds because of the larger power/thermal budget.

Edit: If you compare the benchmarks here: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-...00.86106.0.html and here: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-...00.91978.0.html you'll see that the 4600 (In a 37-47W chip) actually outperforms the 5000 (in a 17W chip) in nearly every synthetic and gaming benchmark. This is pretty much entirely due to thermal throttling in the low wattage chip.

Naffer fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jul 18, 2013

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

InstantInfidel posted:

No, we're talking about 5000. The graph doesn't include it, but it's still better than quite a few dGPUs.

The 5000 in a 17W CPU like in the Air should be slower than the 4600 in that benchmark because of GPU/CPU throttling. See my post here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...9#post417593375

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Dell just announced the Precision M3800 and that it will have a 3,200 x 1,800 display. At 4.5 pounds it looks to be a direct 15" rMBP competitor.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Koramei posted:

Wellll I was pretty vague in my previous post but I hope someone can help me this time; I did a bit more searching, can someone compare this against this?

Also, how decent are Intel HD Graphics? and how are Dell Inspirons as a line?

If you're not planning on playing AAA video games at high resolutions, the Intel HD graphics are good enough for everything else (streaming video, flash games, etc). You can do some mid to light gaming on the newest versions of Intel HD graphics cards (>4000) too.

The Dell Inspirons are fine but not fantastic. In your price range you might be able to bag a Latitude notebook from the Dell Business outlet if you're content with a last-gen Intel processor. The advantage there is that all their Latitude laptops in their outlet come with a full 3 year warranty. This is sort of my personal preference, since business grade laptops tend to be better built. There are some 20% off coupons floating around right now.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Hadlock posted:

The biggest difference on the 440 will be ~3 additional hours of battery life on the stock battery, and for the i7 model, s much better integrated graphics capability.

Very likely the 440s will be the laptop to get, being smaller and having a 1080p screen. Not sure if the 440 regular will have a 1080 option, otherwise there's not a whole lot of product differation

I'm hoping they're offer a 440s with the 5100 Iris GPU.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Srebrenica Surprise posted:

The 730M would probably be faster anyway.

Yes but that's a 33W GPU. The Iris 5100 is 28W including both the GPU and CPU, which means it can be lighter and quieter even if the performance is a bit worse.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Weinertron posted:

The lower TDP is the whole problem, when the CPU is going hard then the GPU doesn't have as much room to clock itself up and vice versa. If Intel does a 35W TDP package of the same part it would probably be significantly faster.

Unfortunately Haswell has been less impressive in reality than on paper so far. Maybe when more SKUs come out we'll see better results.

The 5100 GPU in the 28W processors should be in the ballpark of 50% faster than the 5000 GPU in 17W ultraportable Intel processors if Intel's own numbers are to be believed : (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...rated-graphics/) Laptops with 28W 5100 GPUs aren't available yet so there aren't any other numbers available yet.

A 15W CPU (~dual core i7) + 33 W GPU is about 50W, which is pretty much dead on what the i7-4750HQ (quad core + Iris 5200 GPU) TDP is. Has anyone seen a comparison benchmark between that 14" Clevo equipped with a i7-4750HQ versus a similar wattage of CPU + Nvidia GPU?


Edit:
This is a translated German article pretty much answering that exact question:
http://translate.google.com.ar/tran...%2F2%2F&act=url">early
They match up a i7-4750HQ with Iris Pro 5200 against an i7-4700HQ with an Nvidia 750M. Theoretically, the latter system should have a TDP nearly twice that of the Iris-pro system, but it both performs substantially better and draws only about 7W more (82 vs 89W).

Naffer fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Aug 1, 2013

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Bob Morales posted:

Besides that, newer laptops have much longer lasting batteries and things like nice big touchpads, plus things like USB 3.0, HDMI or DisplayPort output, have better integrated wireless, and better or higher-resolution screens, so it's worth upgrading because of one or more of those features.

Also, lithium ion batteries age, so a 4 year old laptop often has abysmal battery life compared to when it was new.
4 years ago a decent laptop had a 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo with 2 to 4 GB of RAM. If you paid a lot more you might have picked up a 2.8 GHz core 2 duo. Even today, there isn't much that the latter more expensive option can handle that the cheaper one couldn't.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

VulgarandStupid posted:

SSDs will make almost any computer seem fast in anything that isn't being processor limited, and you've removed the bloatware. My dm1z has a Kingston SSD+ in it, which is not a particularly fast SSD and its been great.

This is definitely true. A new SSD gave my 4 year old 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo laptop a new lease on life.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Inspector_71 posted:

I got to play with a few of the earlier model Ativ Books that came into my shop for work (OS/software, not hardware) and holy poo poo they are thin and light as all hell. I would totally pick one up if I had the money for it.

Asus had better hurry up and get the Zenbook Infinity out the door, because this one looks like a really nice competitor. It's really interesting how the sum of Haswell and high DPI displays has really made this new laptop generation quite a step forward.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Dell just announced a 14" Haswell Latitude. It's on the expensive side but will have a 1080p screen option. Right now the only CPU options on the My Premier site are the i3-4010U Processor (1.7GHz, 3M cache) and i5-4200U Processor (1.6GHz, 3M cache), but supposedly there will be an option with Intel 5000 graphics as well. Weirdly enough there is no 5GHz Wifi option yet.

Edit: I was wrong, the Intel option is 802.11a/b/g/n 2x2.
A detailed list of specs that will be available is here: http://partnerdirect.dell.com/sites...l-Guidebook.pdf
The list of supported CPUs for both 7-series latitudes is:
Intel® Core™ i5-4200U Intel® HD Graphics 4400
Intel® Core™ i3-4010U Intel® HD Graphics 4400
Intel® Core™ i7-4600U (Wave II) Intel® HD Graphics 4400
Intel® Core™ i5-4300U (Wave II) Intel® HD Graphics 4400

Naffer fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Aug 9, 2013

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

unpronounceable posted:

It's not even a particularly good dGPU though. I'd much rather just the integrated graphics, but in a CPU with a larger power envelope.

And here I was hoping for a 28W Haswell T440s with integrated Iris 5100 GPU.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

CapnBry posted:

The Lenovo U430 showed up briefly on the Lenovo site this morning. Looks like you can make a pretty decent system with the exception it is limited to 8GB of RAM. Only one RAM slot? How am I supposed to have 100 browser tabs open? Also the display is only 250nit and something tells me it is going to be glossy.


•The 4th Generation Intel® Core i5-4258U processor
•The 4th Generation Intel® Core i7-4558U processor

These two chips are 28W Haswell with the Iris 5100 GPU.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Frankie! posted:

Any other Iris 5200 laptops around?

Pretty much just the Clevo W740SU: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7182/...ris-pro-hd-5200

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

PiCroft posted:

Also, was wondering what the concensus is on the GPU, which is apparently a Intel HD Graphics 4400. Is this a decent GPU?

The 4400 is quite good for integrated graphics and should suffice for most use cases except for serious AAA gaming. For the 17W low voltage Intel chips, the 4400 and 5000 are pretty comparable in speed since the 5000 is limited by the total CPU+GPU TDP.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Hadlock posted:

My buddy ordered a Yoga from the outlet store on the 11th (sunday) and got it on the 20th, 9 days later. You might be pushing it a little on your window there. 9 days from today would be next friday, which only gives you two days wiggle room.

I play TF2 all day long on my i5 with the HD4000 and it gets about 90FPS with all the eye candy turned to max. The i5 Ivy Bridge mobile chip is stupid fast, it's about 10% faster than my i5-750 desktop.

I really want to buy the Yoga, but there's just one too many compromises right now. How much money could they really have saved by not including a proper Intel Wifi card with 5 GHz support?

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Is anyone in this thread close friends with a Dell representative? I'm trying to figure out whether the 1080p panel on the Latitude 7440 is an IPS display or not. The reported view angles (+80/-80 degrees vertical +80/-80 degrees horizontal) don't exactly sound right for one.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Hadlock posted:

Jumping on the Aitv bandwagon here

I'd buy that tomorrow if it came with 8GB of RAM, even if it was $1450 instead.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

DrDork posted:

Sure, but the price and size difference of a 4GB package vice an 8GB one is pretty small, especially in what are supposed to be flagship products.

I expect they'll offer 8 GB along with something like a 256gb ssd and an i7 so they can add 400 to the price for an upgraded model.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Viscardus posted:

Yeah, that's definitely something to consider. I'm pretty sure my current laptop has a battery life of well under half of what it originally did, probably in large part due to my bad habit of having it constantly plugged in even when fully charged.

It's interesting that you mention this. I was playing with a Vaio Pro 13 recently and noticed that you can set it to charge only to 80% capacity to extend the life of the battery. It seems like a good idea for people who are plugged in the vast majority of the time.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

bull3964 posted:

Dell announced their new latitude line yesterday.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/26/...7000-5000-3000/

The Latitude 5000 sounds like it might be a close competitor to the y510p and y410p as it offers similar features and discrete graphics (though they don't mention which discrete chip it's using yet) and you can get it with a four, six, or nine-cell battery.

The Latitude 7440 looks really nice but isn't going to come cheap. I priced one out with an i5-4200U, 128GB SSD, 1920*1080 screen and 8GB RAM on my premier site and it was ~$1400. That's pretty similar to an X1 Carbon with similar specs, but the Latitude weighs an extra half pound and comes with a 3 year warranty.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Boner Slam posted:

Which brings me to Dell
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Dell-n...t.100261.0.html
The German page of Notebookcheck has some in depth previews of the new Dell Models.
Built quality of the 3000 (Vostro) and 5000 newcomers is apparently worse than their predecessors, even though the hardware is good and the designs are arguably better looking.
3000 still has the Vostro keyboard. I have used it, it is poo poo.
Sadly, the 7000 series is also not up to snuff when it comes to built quality. This is apparently due to the placement of the battery so it might not change. It has a docking port ability and a removable battery. The keyboard is good. It has a good IPS display - if you get the Touch version.
Lots of pictures and specs in the article.

Well at least the 6000 series stays the way it is, which is apparently better in terms of built quality than the 7000 series. Then again the design and the off-centered keyboard... ugh. Well let's see how the T440 turns out.

The IPS touchscreen on the 7440 looks fantastic. I think I might pick this one up when it becomes available on my premier page. I'm a little sad that the page up and page down buttons are now near the arrowkeys, but at least they didn't do the mini-arrow keys like Apple and Sony have been doing lately.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

A hands-on review of the 440s was posted on a german forum. Translated link:
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/...G-BILDER-VIDEOS

The short video showing the clickpad makes it look unbelievably bad. There's no way Lenovo would actually ship that is there?

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

QuarkJets posted:

So while we're waiting for more Haswell HD5000+ laptops to come out, what do we think the low-end price point is going to be on these initially? More than $1k?

The i7-4500U that everyone but apple is using right now (with HD4400) is only $50 cheaper than the i7-4550U (comparable turbo clocks, lower base with HD5000).
With regard to 28 Iris 5100 CPUs, The i5 versions should be similarly priced or less than the i7 with HD4400.

The big issue is that HD5000 is so power constrained in the 17W CPUs that there's not a lot of reason to pay for an HD5000 over similar GPU with an HD4400, especially since you pay not only in price but in lower base clocks. 28W CPUs with Iris 5100 graphics should provide the power budget for the integrated graphics to really stretch its legs.

You can see the penalty imposed on the HD5000 by power constraints by comparing it to the HD4600 in higher wattage chips. The HD4600 is faster even though it's half the GPU.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

I don't think I would be paying a lot more money though, because as far as I can see the Ativ Book 9 Plus is the same price range as the other laptops I mentioned in my post at the top of the page

I'm actually deciding between the same laptops as you, and right now I'm leaning towards the Latitude 7440 pending the final price. The images of the model with the 1080p touch screen make it look fantastic. I know it's a bit heavier and doesn't have the high resolution of the Ativ Book 9 plus, but I'm hoping it'll hold up better over time. Plus the non-chiclet keyboard and 3 year standard warranty wins points.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

Other than the lack of driver updates, is there another reason not to get a Vaio Pro?

I have used one a fair bit. It seems to be getting pretty frequently updated still. My biggest complaints are that there isn't a lot of travel on the keys, which is pretty common on superlight ultrabooks these days, and that the screen angle can't be adjusted back past a certain angle. For normal use that isn't a big issue, but sometimes I wish I could push the screen back a little further when working with it on my lap. The fan is a touch on the whiny side when it's going full tilt too, but that isn't very common.

It's unbelievably light and the screen looks fantastic. Going from a 5-6 pound laptop to a sub 3 pound laptop makes your laptop bag feel nearly empty. It's pretty great.

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Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Cacator posted:

Do you have any issues with the flex in the screen or the keyboard? I don't doubt the strength or the lightness of the carbon fibre but I can't help feel like it would annoy me. And how is the battery life?

I should say that it's my significant other's laptop and I only use it occasionally, but the flex isn't really as bad as it's made out to be. Yes there is a little bit more give then you might be used to, but you don't notice it after using it for a day or two. If you primarily use it on a desk or tabletop, you'll probably never notice it at all. It's a bit more noticeable when you're using it on your lap.

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