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Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

Leal posted:

Non shitpost will be a way to make mutations not suck dick. Like a machine you can throw serums into to isolate a particular mutation to shoot into yourself. This would balance itself, you got all these serums. Do you play mutation roulette and possibly get a bunch of good mutations or do you use them all up to get one single mutation?
No, see, mutations need to be endgame or post-endgame content! That mutation that gives you +1 Perception? Or +2 bash resistance? Or reduces wet penalties? Or slightly increases hunger? Or lets you spin webs? We can't let you have access to those until you're so skilled and so well equipped that those changes will never, ever matter. That's what we call good game balance. Don't worry though, in ten years we might add more of an endgame, and then you'll actually be able to play around with those mutations you got all at once.

It feels like limiting threshold breakthroughs to lategame or lab content would be fine. Post-threshold mutations are much more exaggerated, while pre-threshold mutations often won't really matter, good or bad, by the time you're raiding labs competently. So maybe instead of thresholds being achieved by just stacking enough normal mutations, a special item that breaks through a threshold should be stocked in hard to reach places (the way mutagen currently is) while regular mutagen becomes more accessible in the early game, when it can still impact the tide of progression.
As an added bonus, that way mutations will be sprinkled throughout the run as a growing, shifting change, rather than discovering a lab/recipe and then getting dozens of mutations all at once as you craft batches of cheap mutagen. Start with more minor, passing mutations, ramp up as you go, and by the time you find the catalyst to break the threshold you're ready for the next big step in your evolution.

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HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007

megane posted:

There's no way a lone survivor, no matter how skilled in Computers, would be able to substantially improve the CDDA codebase. You need professional facilities for that. Maybe those facilities will be added sometime in the future, for example as a reward at the bottom of a lab, but until then this seems unrealistic.

It's really weird how the discourse about CDDA development and Star Citizen overlaps a great deal.

Strumpie
Dec 9, 2012
what cdda development.

Boba Pearl
Dec 27, 2019

by Athanatos

Leal posted:

Non shitpost will be a way to make mutations not suck dick. Like a machine you can throw serums into to isolate a particular mutation to shoot into yourself. This would balance itself, you got all these serums. Do you play mutation roulette and possibly get a bunch of good mutations or do you use them all up to get one single mutation?

Vib Rib posted:

No, see, mutations need to be endgame or post-endgame content! That mutation that gives you +1 Perception? Or +2 bash resistance? Or reduces wet penalties? Or slightly increases hunger? Or lets you spin webs? We can't let you have access to those until you're so skilled and so well equipped that those changes will never, ever matter. That's what we call good game balance. Don't worry though, in ten years we might add more of an endgame, and then you'll actually be able to play around with those mutations you got all at once.

It feels like limiting threshold breakthroughs to lategame or lab content would be fine. Post-threshold mutations are much more exaggerated, while pre-threshold mutations often won't really matter, good or bad, by the time you're raiding labs competently. So maybe instead of thresholds being achieved by just stacking enough normal mutations, a special item that breaks through a threshold should be stocked in hard to reach places (the way mutagen currently is) while regular mutagen becomes more accessible in the early game, when it can still impact the tide of progression.
As an added bonus, that way mutations will be sprinkled throughout the run as a growing, shifting change, rather than discovering a lab/recipe and then getting dozens of mutations all at once as you craft batches of cheap mutagen. Start with more minor, passing mutations, ramp up as you go, and by the time you find the catalyst to break the threshold you're ready for the next big step in your evolution.


Changing Mutations to an early game thing seems easy enough, just a mod to make the mutation stuff earlier, found more readily.

I like to have a "Design" document before I go making changes, so that I understand what I'm attempting to do, so my mod would do a few things

My Goals

Make mutagens a low level chemistry/Cooking recipe, starting at Cooking 2 and increasing to max level at Cooking 5 or 6

Easily learn mutagen recipes from books.

Changing the requirements to Mutagen creation, serums that are capable of being created by finding a few key items, so that you can play with mutagens in the early game where they are fun and helpful.

Creating a "Purple Chunk" mutagen, the idea is you can cook a bunch of tainted flesh down, and get a mutagen serum that will give you a random mutation from any category.

Changing the loot tables of multiple places in game to include mutagens/serums.

Find a way to add mutation categories to everything so that you can craft a specific mutation <<< This one will be tedious.

After doing the above, making mutagens that specifically break thresholds this should be rather simple once I've created an item for every mutagen individually.

I will do this by making a mod that edits recipes/mutagens.json. Specifically, I will change the levels and items required to make these mutagens, as well as modifying what books are required to learn about mutagens, with the idea that Mutagens are something people learned in highschool.

Things that do not seem possible with a mod: Changing how thresholds works, changing what items break thresholds, changing how mutations work.

Potential Cons

KA101 has repeatedly stated Mutagens are his baby, and that they will never mainline changes that don't match his specific lore about them. I will have to make this a mod, in fact most of the changes I will have to make mods.

Boba Pearl fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jul 16, 2020

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

Boba Pearl posted:

Creating a "Purple Chunk" mutagen, the idea is you can cook a bunch of tainted flesh down, and get a mutagen serum that will give you a random mutation from any category.
There's actually already an item like this and it's a pretty cool concept for an early game mutagen, because it's random (non-category) and has such serious side effects it basically puts you out of action for a whole day because you'll be too out of it to fight, explore, etc. It's also made with pretty common materials -- basically just tainted flesh and some strong alcohol to "sterilize" it. It's even auto-learned!
The two main downsides are that it still requires 5 cooking, which is pretty drat high for "throw zombie meat in alcohol, cook", and that it randomly rolls to have just a 1/3rd chance of actually even acting like mutagen, despite all the downsides. Still, with a little balance it's pretty close to what an early mutant-wannabe might be looking for.

Boba Pearl
Dec 27, 2019

by Athanatos
I will make it a cooking 1 recipe, remove the 1/3 chance since you know, there's non-beneficial mutations, and I think the recovery period for these things are fine as long as they don't put you out for longer than a day or two.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖
Agreed, I think the extreme debilitation and unpredictability make good counterweights to the ease of access.

Boba Pearl
Dec 27, 2019

by Athanatos
It would be easier to make a new weak mutagen by copying from mutagen then it would to try and re-code weak mutagen to not have the 1/3 chance since it's hard coded apparently.

e: Looking at the spell stuff, I kind of want to make a portalgun mod. I gotta stay on target with the mutation stuff though.

e2: So we got to a point where I either A.) Had to create an individual recipe for a mutation, or B.) had to create a function that would allow you to select a mutation from a menu, we're going with B. If for some reason they won't except my pull-request, then we'll go back to A. I haven't written the function yet, because there's not a lot of documentation on how the code works, and I'm trying to figure it all out.

Boba Pearl fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Jul 16, 2020

break-up breakdown
Mar 6, 2010

if you're serious about a fork, as a month ago coolthulu is back to working on bright nights, which is likely going to have a lot of overlap with any changes you want that are otherwise anathema to kevin and co.

https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/wiki/Changes-so-far
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/releases

it probably won't go anywhere because these things never do, but you might as well combine efforts

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
Interesting to see BN being worked on again, I thought it was 100% dead

Strumpie
Dec 9, 2012

break-up breakdown posted:

if you're serious about a fork, as a month ago coolthulu is back to working on bright nights, which is likely going to have a lot of overlap with any changes you want that are otherwise anathema to kevin and co.

https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/wiki/Changes-so-far
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/releases

it probably won't go anywhere because these things never do, but you might as well combine efforts

these things do sometimes go places, like Goon Days Ahead.

it's just as time has gone by it has become increasingly hostile to interact with the cdda regulars to the point probably no one will ever meaningfully do so again.

Hyedum
Jun 12, 2010
Hey, just wanted to pop in and say gently caress the item length system.

That is all.

Arven
Sep 23, 2007
CDDA was my play at work game because it didn't require an install and doesn't look like a game. Haven't really played it since I went work from home. Can't help but wonder if this thread went dead because it was the same for everyone else.

Arven fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Oct 6, 2020

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖
I'm still playing it quite a bit. The new container system took a lot of learning but I'm okay with it now. Some items are still unreasonably long while some containers are unreasonably short (you can't fit a crowbar in a duffel bag?) but for the most part I actually enjoy the way you can quickly drop and grab whole containers, and choose what to keep on you.

RangerKarl
Oct 7, 2013

Arven posted:

CDDA was my play at work game because it didn't require an install and doesn't look like a game. Haven't really played it since I went work from home. Can't help but wonder if this thread went dead because it was the same for everyone else.

Mostly it's the frustration at all the neat SF stuff being nerfed into the ground. It no longer feels like absurd fallout roguelike, which is why I was interested in it.

Inadequately
Oct 9, 2012
I'm kind of surprised there was a surge of interest earlier this year, really, given that pretty much every update changed the game for the worse. I still pick up this game from time to time, but I play with an older version that's at least a couple of years out of date at this point. Hated basically every change I've seen since then, so I don't think I'm really missing out on anything.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖
There's a ton of positive new changes and most of the stuff people have really railed against like slower healing I've barely even noticed. I too wish they'd stop veering away from the fun scifi stuff, but that mostly gets moved to Aftershock, which is included in the base game, so I just turn that on and don't feel I'm missing anything.

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."

Inadequately posted:

I'm kind of surprised there was a surge of interest earlier this year, really, given that pretty much every update changed the game for the worse. I still pick up this game from time to time, but I play with an older version that's at least a couple of years out of date at this point. Hated basically every change I've seen since then, so I don't think I'm really missing out on anything.

For some reason a bleak apocalypse brought on by a disease is relatable to current events.

Dire Lemming
Jan 19, 2016
If you don't coddle Nazis flat Earthers then you're literally as bad as them.

Dirk the Average posted:

For some reason a bleak apocalypse brought on by a disease is relatable to current events.

Also the world steadily getting worse with every new announcement from the people in power.

Slaapaav
Mar 3, 2006

by Azathoth
im playing the E stable version. where do i go to try the nested inventory system? in the older versions you could put soldering irons, sewing kits and multitools into holsters but in version E most of the holsters have pistol only flags, i played a bunch back in version cooper and i really miss how holsters used to work (and how absurdly broken tailoring was)

Mr. Lobe
Feb 23, 2007

... Dry bones...


Slaapaav posted:

im playing the E stable version. where do i go to try the nested inventory system? in the older versions you could put soldering irons, sewing kits and multitools into holsters but in version E most of the holsters have pistol only flags, i played a bunch back in version cooper and i really miss how holsters used to work (and how absurdly broken tailoring was)

You'll have to get the experimental version. It should be on the website

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

If you're on Windows, just grab a copy of the game launcher/updater: https://github.com/remyroy/CDDA-Game-Launcher/releases

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface
.....how long have you been able to deconstruct workbenches and turn them into tool boxes.


Also picked this back up again.

Slaapaav
Mar 3, 2006

by Azathoth
wonder if that works on my 2 weeks old build?

edit: it doesnt???

Slaapaav fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Nov 12, 2020

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Slaapaav posted:

wonder if that works on my 2 weeks old build?

edit: it doesnt???

Might be from the newest build, might be from the brightest days modpack I also plopped in.


I apologize and wasn't thinking about how that would impact it.

Kevin DuBrow
Apr 21, 2012

The uruk-hai defender has logged on.
I recently discovered the joy of whizzing around on a bike while poking zeds with my spear. It might be slow as hell, but now I can keep an eye out for plate mail to complete my knight cosplay.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Kevin DuBrow posted:

I recently discovered the joy of whizzing around on a bike while poking zeds with my spear. It might be slow as hell, but now I can keep an eye out for plate mail to complete my knight cosplay.

I mean I think you need to unicycle it.

My current game goal is to build a vehicle the size of a house. I have gotten close in past run throughs but never quite that far.

Slaapaav
Mar 3, 2006

by Azathoth
i put on plate armor and fought a skeletal juggernaut in a mansion basement. they are really hard to kill with bullets and dont even take damage from most pistol calibers. it barely did any damage because of the plate armor and a barbute helm i found in the mansion, without armor they can almost kill you with one hit to the head. i was forced to leave another city because of one earlier when i ran out of ammo capable of damaging it.

decent replica morningstar > full magazine of 5.56

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

Yeah skeletons you def want to smash. Maybe they are similar to power armor zombies, where you really want 7.62 at minimum to assure damage? 5.56 bounces off power armored ones.

Slaapaav
Mar 3, 2006

by Azathoth
5.56 does damage but the thing just has so much hp.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface
I have gotten a poo poo ton of mileage out of a .50 cal I found mounted on an APC.

Put it on semi-auto and just snipe down zeds.

Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 12, 2020

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
Fifty cal will kill pretty close to anything in the game in a single hit if you have the rifle skill to use it, so that's not surprising. For regular zeds it's overkill to the point that it usually pulps them past the point of being able to get back up again.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

The APC itself is also a pretty good weapon.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
14-ton hunks of metal going 120 miles per hour tend to be.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

The Lone Badger posted:

The APC itself is also a pretty good weapon.

The APC was cannibalized over three days and welded onto a firetruck, rip APC. There is an osprey nearby with functional rotors so I might see if those work now.

The .50 cal is normally my street clearing go to, there was around 150 rounds associated with it and with the accuracy boost of it being turreted on the vehicle it was basically enough for me to clear the rest of the town by popping zeds one by one with a very low miss rate.

Flamethrowers are also extreeeeemly fun to use.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
Do you still have to manually go over each and every solitary corpse and process it or else it'll rise from the dead the next day?

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Leal posted:

Do you still have to manually go over each and every solitary corpse and process it or else it'll rise from the dead the next day?

There has been a world gen option that turns that off for a while now if you find that tedious.

There is also auto pulp but still involves you walking ontop of each corpse for it to start.

Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Nov 13, 2020

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
Yeah, that option has been there for years now. Personally, I kind of like the vanilla behaviour, though. It encourages you to prioritize avoidance over aggressively clearing out every area you pass through without even thinking about it, because even corpses are still a potential threat and a drain on your time and resources.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Cardiovorax posted:

Yeah, that option has been there for years now. Personally, I kind of like the vanilla behaviour, though. It encourages you to prioritize avoidance over aggressively clearing out every area you pass through without even thinking about it, because even corpses are still a potential threat and a drain on your time and resources.

You could always light a house on fire and hide and watch as dozens of zeds come to check out the noise and fall into the flames.

Bonus if there was a basment so now theres a gaping, house sized pit in the ground full of trapped zombies.

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Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
Yeah, that's a pretty effective technique, although it also takes about as much waiting and standing around as just manually bashing them into pulped meat. There's only ever so much of the game world around you that is actively being processed, so one doesn't really gain all that much from that tactic if they find the whole procedure tedious and boring already. As fun as it is to set houses on fire, it's just not the same if you do it in a video game

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