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Belasarius posted:Intelligence is the biggest piece of installing CBMs but the hardest to change after you've started.
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Nov 8, 2013 09:08
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Is it possible to raise your stats after you've made your character?
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Nov 8, 2013 10:12
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chiefnewo posted:Is it possible to raise your stats after you've made your character? Certain mutations can increase stats, but I can't think of any other way.
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Nov 8, 2013 10:30
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Certain drugs can also give you a temporary boost, but the only permanent boosts are mutations. vvv It's actually being discussed on their forums, I think they're talking about making CBMs harder and more time consuming to install, but with specialized equipment in clinics and hospitals that ease the process. Inadequately fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 10:53
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There should be a room in hospitals that makes it easier to install CBMs
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Nov 8, 2013 12:30
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Inadequately posted:I do like his idea of interfaction wars late-game, though. Plus, I'm really not sure how zombies could ever be a main threat in comparison to the otherdimensional stuff, especially when the former exists largely due to the latter. As GlyphGryph has talked about, late game content with zombies/otherworld/titans are a part of what the development team are working towards. Even without NPCs I think this will bulk out the later game content with the zombie hordes/evolving, other world monsters becoming more widespread and maybe even titans eventually. Portals can already form and dissipate with quite a few of the other world monsters expiring by themselves in this world, I would like to see it expanded though especially late game. As for triffids/fungaloids they've both changed quite a lot recently to become a much smaller threat early game so I'm quite happy with how they work in general right now. demonicon posted:There should be a room in hospitals that makes it easier to install CBMs This has been discussed on github and a few people want to do something along these lines.
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Nov 8, 2013 13:23
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Inadequately posted:vvv It's actually being discussed on their forums, I think they're talking about making CBMs harder and more time consuming to install, but with specialized equipment in clinics and hospitals that ease the process.
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Nov 8, 2013 15:07
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Strumpie posted:As GlyphGryph has talked about, late game content with zombies/otherworld/titans are a part of what the development team are working towards. Even without NPCs I think this will bulk out the later game content with the zombie hordes/evolving, other world monsters becoming more widespread and maybe even titans eventually. I hope that when they add titans to the game, they also add equip-able 3D maneuver gear. JosephWongKS fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 15:17
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I dunno, I can sort of see their point on the bionics thing. Maybe for the high-level ones like teleportation, at the very least. It seems like the forums are split largely between two camps, the ones who want a traditional zombie survival game, and the ones who like the flavour. Also the really weird people who suggest things like infant zombies and pregnant zombies and skinning humans alive and bombed-out abortion clinics. On second thought, you're probably right, close down the forums.
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Nov 8, 2013 16:49
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I'm sure quite a few of you have noticed the rapidly expanding list of critters and creatures, along with a big mess and lack of consistency in the descriptions. I've been going through relevant pull requests on github to see what changes are to be made and found poor GlyphGryph fighting the good fight (somewhat) alone. Looking at these two in particular for the clean up of current text issues and guidelines for the future, I'm just voicing my support again for you GlyphGryph. Creating an overarching set of guidelines for descriptions to maintain consistancy, the changing of descriptions based on mutations and finally your plan to mask variants of similar creatures are a great idea. If you don't want to look through the discussion, GlyphGryph is planning on making similar creatures share a symbol and colour with variant descriptions for flavour since in gameplay terms a brown rabbit and white rabbit are the same. This would allow much easier identification of creatures of what behaviour they will have and what use you could have for them or if they are dangerous. When do you expect to be able to clean up all the critters and creatures with this system, are there any other ways it could be improved? And on the point of the forums, I'm glad at least one developer frequents this thread as we all seem to share similar opinions on how the game should develop and that gets taken back to the 'strange' ideas that come up on their forum. Some of the github discussions and pull requests can also get quite weird, and there they have a very real chance of getting into a commit which makes me worried when I see a pull request like 'Fixes broken skill gains, also adds dickbutts to every creature'.
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Nov 8, 2013 16:57
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Cardiovorax posted:"Make things more annoying, except under certain circumstances when it's just as annoying as usual." They should just close that forum before the idiot crowd manages to gently caress the game up completely. It really is bad. Anyone with any amount of critical thinking can take a step back and say "hm, making this operation involve a dice roll that the player has little to no control over only makes the player feel cheated when the dice roll fails; this only encourages save scumming." And the people on those forums look at it and say, "MAKE THE DICE ROLL HAAARDER for REALISM" And there was one guy on there who suggested that CBMs should require a once-per-day application of CBM lubricant or whatever that has to be crafted by the player or else they malfunction 
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Nov 8, 2013 17:40
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Bilal posted:And there was one guy on there who suggested that CBMs should require a once-per-day application of CBM lubricant or whatever that has to be crafted by the player or else they malfunction
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Nov 8, 2013 18:12
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I just installed the night vision and olfactory mask bionics for the first time and tried a night raid on the centre of town and it was like playing a different game. Really tense and exciting. It makes me wonder what things would be like if you removed sense of smell from zombies altogether and made sneaking around easier. Exploring houses and urban environments would be way more interesting and you could actually be surprised by zombies hiding in bathrooms and whatever instead of them smelling you through the wall and then you seeing their question mark in the fog. It feels like there's no suspense to it and there easily could be. Towns for me at the moment just involve pulling zombies away a few at a time until I clear a path to whatever store I want to go to. I'd happily make a trade for more/tougher but less perceptive zombies. Does the game actually model any kind of line of sight? I'm wondering because during the night raid sometimes I could actually walk up on a zombie and hit it before it reacted, and other times it would attack me as I closed. Similarly sometimes zombies seem to detect you from over a screen away while other times you need to get much closer.
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Nov 8, 2013 23:21
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Orgone Accumulator posted:I just installed the night vision and olfactory mask bionics for the first time and tried a night raid on the centre of town and it was like playing a different game. Really tense and exciting. It makes me wonder what things would be like if you removed sense of smell from zombies altogether and made sneaking around easier. Exploring houses and urban environments would be way more interesting and you could actually be surprised by zombies hiding in bathrooms and whatever instead of them smelling you through the wall and then you seeing their question mark in the fog. It feels like there's no suspense to it and there easily could be. Towns for me at the moment just involve pulling zombies away a few at a time until I clear a path to whatever store I want to go to. I'd happily make a trade for more/tougher but less perceptive zombies. Depending on the monster they can have multiple senses and strengths. Most will have a mix of sight, sound and smell. They use sight primarily, so if they have line of sight and it's in their vision they will head straight for you, next they will follow smells if they can't see you directly, especially noticable at night and finally they will follow sounds until they can either pick up a scent or see you.
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Nov 8, 2013 23:41
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Anticheese posted:Integrated toolset is the king of bionics. If you can get a metabolic interchange, you're golden. So have they changed how metabolic interchange works? Because last time I remember using it there was no way of turning it off so you had no way of using any of the other power generating CBM's and on top of that you were constantly hungry.
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Nov 9, 2013 00:10
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Metabolic interchange shuts down several days before hunger starts having a real effect on your character. Sure, you have to live with the yellow hungry message. But the yellow hungry message is more of a "hey, it's maybe worth eating" message than a "you need to eat" message. Thirst on the other hand should be dealt with as quickly as it shows up. Speed penalties are nasty.
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Nov 9, 2013 00:24
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Capilarean posted:So have they changed how metabolic interchange works? Because last time I remember using it there was no way of turning it off so you had no way of using any of the other power generating CBM's and on top of that you were constantly hungry.
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Nov 9, 2013 00:48
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Orgone Accumulator posted:I just installed the night vision and olfactory mask bionics for the first time and tried a night raid on the centre of town and it was like playing a different game. Really tense and exciting. It makes me wonder what things would be like if you removed sense of smell from zombies altogether and made sneaking around easier. Exploring houses and urban environments would be way more interesting and you could actually be surprised by zombies hiding in bathrooms and whatever instead of them smelling you through the wall and then you seeing their question mark in the fog. It feels like there's no suspense to it and there easily could be. Towns for me at the moment just involve pulling zombies away a few at a time until I clear a path to whatever store I want to go to. I'd happily make a trade for more/tougher but less perceptive zombies. Zombies ought to have bad vision, worse sense of smell but excellent hearing, so that crowds will converge on you if you disturb anything but it's easy to avoid or cleverly take out small groups. Ideally, fighting more than one or two zombies at a time should be a deadly risk, but also comparatively easy to avoid if you move carefully.
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Nov 9, 2013 11:44
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I found an artifact while wandering about that turns me invisible. It was pretty neat walking around the horde without them really caring, but things that hunt by scent (zombie dogs and...Giant spiders and bees?) are way too drat persistent in tracking by scent. Also, making bionics more difficult and painful is terrible and groggy, and should never happen.
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Nov 9, 2013 11:57
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Cardiovorax posted:I think so too, honestly. Right now, stealth is still not really something you can reliably pull off. It's hugely limited; it has to be night, ideally a form of night vision, definitely something to mask your smell... Smell basically ruins one of the primary elements of zombie fiction, which is sneaking past the zombies without engaging them. Hunting by smell should really be a quality of certain hunter-type enemies, not every monster in the game. Zombies have a vision range of 40, the players vision range is 60. So their sight is worse and changes between the zombie types but is always less than the players, skeletons have no sense of small and non of them breath. A stealth system has been brought up and there is an open issue anyone can work on here. It's just not priority.
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Nov 9, 2013 12:09
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Do you have a monitor with a high enough resolution to play the game in a viewport 60x60 tiles wide? I don't. Mine goes to 1920x1080 and it's still not enough, if I want to be able to actually read poo poo at least.
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Nov 9, 2013 12:15
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Cardiovorax posted:Do you have a monitor with a high enough resolution to play the game in a viewport 60x60 tiles wide? I don't. Mine goes to 1920x1080 and it's still not enough, if I want to be able to actually read poo poo at least. I'm using Topaz-8 so everything is square with circular distances. I can see 40 tiles in every direction and for the 20 I can't see I have the compass identifier where I can press x and look myself. It's not really a problem since you still know where creatures are.
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Nov 9, 2013 12:27
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If they want to make bionics more 'difficult' then they should introduce greater initial failure rates, but include items and tools you can find to make the process go more smoothly. So you may have to spend first aid kits, bandages, electronic components, and possibly special bionic toolkits (which could also be used to attempt to remove faulty bionics) in order to drop the percentage chance of failure. That way installing bionics doesn't just become savescummy, but becomes an investement of resources for a major permanent gain, which makes sense.
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Nov 9, 2013 13:03
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What about making it so that faulty bionics still do what they advertise, but faulty ones have quirks depending on how badly you botched the installation job. Sure, you got your torso armour plating, but its a bit hard to move with now. Yeah, you've got a finger-mounted laser, but sometimes its capacitors discharge into you as well. Bionic removal needs to be a thing, too.
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Nov 9, 2013 13:23
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OwlFancier posted:If they want to make bionics more 'difficult' then they should introduce greater initial failure rates, but include items and tools you can find to make the process go more smoothly. So you may have to spend first aid kits, bandages, electronic components, and possibly special bionic toolkits (which could also be used to attempt to remove faulty bionics) in order to drop the percentage chance of failure. Having something like a single use Bionic toolkit to remove or repair a faulty installation would be perfect. Binary success/failure decided by a RNG with no way to deal with the permanent and highly annoying side effects of a failed installation encourages save scumming and nothing else. If you have the ability to find kits to correct that it means a botched installation doesn't require reloading a save because you're handicapped. Because of this I only start CBM installations once I'm highly skilled and having chances of ~10% so critical failures are highly unlikely. With a repair kit or similar device I'd be much more willing to walk around with a faulty installation because it gives me another goal to work towards, very similar to purifier in the mutation system. As a bonus, this is what Topaz-8 square font and circular distances look like. I highly recommend it for people with non tiny monitors. That rat is about to die.  
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Nov 9, 2013 13:24
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Another possibility is making 'success' not the same as 'perfect success'. Like, if you install armor onto your legs, most of the time it'll give you broken legs, they'll heal up if you have the resources to stay a day or so and treat broken legs, but again, it's an investment in time and resources and you should really do it in a safe place. Basically doing major surgery on yourself could be better simulated in terms of the investment required, and the scale of that investment would increase the less skilled you are at doing it, so it's not the binary fail/succeed state, but rather a scale of how expensive it is to succeed.
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Nov 9, 2013 13:31
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OwlFancier posted:Another possibility is making 'success' not the same as 'perfect success'. The Bionic system has quite a bit going for it, but still needs work. This is a relevant topic to how bionics currently work. The way it's calculated for failure/critical failure is well thought out but the bionics installation system and difficulty needs adjusting. As for the states of critical failure. Anticheese posted:What about making it so that faulty bionics still do what they advertise, but faulty ones have quirks depending on how badly you botched the installation job. The developers want to keep the CBM system relatively straight forward, other than general rebalancing of the bionics themselves, removal and repair are what I'd like to see as well as more information given to the player on the chances of success. Instead of having the per bionic failure states I feel the general ones are already suited, and the two you suggested already exist. "A malfunctioning bionic which occasionally discharges electricity through your body, causing pain and brief paralysis but no damage." "Improperly installed wires cause a physical stiffness in most of your body, causing increased encumbrance." This is actually a balance issue so you can only have a limited number of critical failures before it just causes damage/pain, if they were unique to each bionic you could end up a complete wreck. Strumpie fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 9, 2013 13:42
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Strumpie posted:I'm using Topaz-8 so everything is square with circular distances. I can see 40 tiles in every direction and for the 20 I can't see I have the compass identifier where I can press x and look myself. Anticheese posted:What about making it so that faulty bionics still do what they advertise, but faulty ones have quirks depending on how badly you botched the installation job.
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Nov 9, 2013 14:39
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Cardiovorax posted:Why do faulty installations need to exist at all? The current installation system for bionics is mostly fine. They're hard enough to find that the chance to gently caress up and lose one is enough of a punishment all by itself. Forcing you to lug around a ton of random tools (as if you didn't need to carry enough poo poo with you already) to have a chance of succeeding is just more of that "making poo poo harder for the sake of being harder" bullshit. Tool collection is a good part of the game though, the game is ultimately about fighting poo poo and grabbing loot, then using said loot to fight more poo poo and get better loot, or at least the game ultimately boils down to that mechanic most of the time. You wouldn't have to carry them with you, why would you want to? And you wouldn't necessarily have to find them all either, as you could find some tools and craft others, part of the fun of the game is working with what you get, you might not find everything but you might find some books and tools to make what you want, other times you might find bionic tools right off the bat and turn yourself into a super cyborg but you don't have the equipment to build a good vehicle, so you need to use your bionics to get those tools. Building a workshop for a specific trade is a sensible and sound mechanic which has multiple routes to success and ties in well with the other mechanics in the game, you certainly don't want to carry everything with you unless you have a car to bring it in. It should work out, if done properly, that it is initially harder to use CBMs, but there are many different approaches to making it practical, and combining those approaches makes it reliable. At the moment it is possible to make it practical, but it is never reliable without massive amounts of savescumming/god moding with your stats. And there is only one way to make it practical and that's read a bunch of books on first aid/electronics and be really smart. That's not a good system and it'd make bionics more worthwhile if you had multiple approaches to success, be it being able to bear the cost of an unskilled installation, being able to throw more resources at it to ensure a good installation, or becoming very skilled at installing them. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 9, 2013 17:57
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No, definitely not. You need to construct way too much in-and-of-itself useless poo poo already just to be able to make most advanced crafting recipes. I'm not really big on any further changes that force you into a certain playstyle. Making people need to have a car and/or build a base just to be able to access a major gameplay element like bionics is a really, really bad idea. Backpacking all your stuff should limit you, but it shouldn't effectively lock you completely out of the second half of the game. Also, the lack of reliability is not actually a problem. Bionics were intended from the beginning to have a heavy random element. They're an alternative option to mutations, which always give you something, but not necessarily what you want, by always giving you a shot at getting exactly what you want with a chance of not getting anything at all. This game already relies heavily on making you find random objects. Making me find double the amount of random objects, just to fix a design problem that doesn't actually exist to begin with, is a stupid idea.
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Nov 9, 2013 19:20
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Cardiovorax posted:No, definitely not. You need to construct way too much in-and-of-itself useless poo poo already just to be able to make most advanced crafting recipes. I'm not really big on any further changes that force you into a certain playstyle. Making people need to have a car and/or build a base just to be able to access a major gameplay element like bionics is a really, really bad idea. Backpacking all your stuff should limit you, but it shouldn't effectively lock you completely out of the second half of the game. Man you need to post this on the forums, I posted a thread where I thought "Hey, shouldn't there be guns occasionally inside houses," and by page 3 everyone was like, "No, there are too many guns, I shouldn't find a gun every half-dozen homes." Like jesus christ, just enjoy the game, and if it's too easy expand on the End Game.
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Nov 9, 2013 19:28
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As if anyone there would listen. GlyphGryph reads this thread and he's got a sensible head on his shoulders, that's good enough for me.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:08
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Turtlicious posted:Man you need to post this on the forums, I posted a thread where I thought "Hey, shouldn't there be guns occasionally inside houses," and by page 3 everyone was like, "No, there are too many guns, I shouldn't find a gun every half-dozen homes." Like jesus christ, just enjoy the game, and if it's too easy expand on the End Game. I've never understood why people want to limit that sort of thing in games. They can choose to ignore the guns, if having easy access would ruin the game for them. Nobody's forcing them to pick up everything.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:11
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Turtlicious posted:Man you need to post this on the forums, I posted a thread where I thought "Hey, shouldn't there be guns occasionally inside houses," and by page 3 everyone was like, "No, there are too many guns, I shouldn't find a gun every half-dozen homes." Like jesus christ, just enjoy the game, and if it's too easy expand on the End Game. I think the real problem with guns, though, isn't their number of potential spawn locations or their frequency but the variety of ammo. Variety is a cool concept but rolling into a gun store to find 6 different guns and 7 different types of ammo but none of the guns can chamber any of the ammo is sort of a problem. Seemingly the only way for guns to be a viable option is to hoard every single weapon and bullet you find so that, after the 3rd gun store, you might have a weapon you can actually use.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:17
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that devil machine posted:I've never understood why people want to limit that sort of thing in games. They can choose to ignore the guns, if having easy access would ruin the game for them. Nobody's forcing them to pick up everything. Plus, in real life, just a hair under half of all households in the United States and a quarter of all households in Canada* own firearms. Realistically, a lot of the houses in the game should have at least one firearm, with ammo for it ranging from < 100 rnds for hunting rifles and several thousand rnds for things like .22s and pistols. * Just as general advice, don't use Wikipedia for statistics. They are nearly always wrong or intentionally misleading. You should instead go to direct sources for statistics; in this case, I used the Department of Justice and the RCMP Commissioners Annual Report.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:20
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Cardiovorax posted:No, definitely not. You need to construct way too much in-and-of-itself useless poo poo already just to be able to make most advanced crafting recipes. I'm not really big on any further changes that force you into a certain playstyle. Making people need to have a car and/or build a base just to be able to access a major gameplay element like bionics is a really, really bad idea. Backpacking all your stuff should limit you, but it shouldn't effectively lock you completely out of the second half of the game. Then, how do you include a challenge? If the game simply hands you the capability to do anything without building up any resources whatsoever, how do you have progression? If you consciously choose not to build anything advanced, not to collect any large stockpiles of equipment, and simply drift from place to place using whatever you find, then, why should you still have access to everything? It isn't difficult to walk around a lot, wandering around the wilderness doesn't give you very much return because it doesn't require any investment. Collecting things together from difficult locations does, and thus you get a bigger reward. I mean, you can still roam around and have a base, that's what vehicles are for, there's a whole system for letting you make a defensible, mobile, storage and living area. If you're going out of your way not to use vehicles, not to make a stockpile, not to play a large chunk of the game... Then how can you reasonably expect the progression not to sort of break because of that?
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Nov 10, 2013 01:55
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Speaking of stockpiles, or at least the poo poo in your backpack.. Does anyone know how to unfuck this? (Everything is getting stuck on one letter and is otherwise inaccessable) Anticheese fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Nov 10, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 02:35
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Anticheese posted:Speaking of stockpiles, or at least the poo poo in your backpack.. That happens to me occasionally, usually you can drop it one item at a time and then re-pick it up to assign new letters. If it's happening consistently though I'm not sure.
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Nov 10, 2013 02:44
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A none? I think I had to use advanced inventory management to dump the stupid thing when I got one. Just trek out into the woods or something and move it out of inventory. The rest, you can either drop stuff and pick it back up, hoping it'll pick new letters, or swap inventory letters. I believe it's defaulted to =, just start reassigning them all. I'm pretty sure it unkinks itself afterward.
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Nov 10, 2013 02:59
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I think what I'd like would be the chance to remove and maybe fix faulty bionics, so they wouldn't be completely useless. Also, take out the option which causes you to lose all your bionics. If you had those options, I wouldn't mind if the bionic installation progress was slightly harder. Also on their forums, one person has suggested adding more swamps, an instant-kill plague monster and permanent overworld fog.The forums really are the worst thing.
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Nov 10, 2013 07:18
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