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Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Picked this up recently by a friend's excited suggestion and trying to get my bearings. Is there anyplace in the thread that runs down some of the major or more popular mods? Even the ones included in the normal download seem barely explained (and some I literally can't find discussion or explanation of), but the big fan ones are hard to navigate too. Catacylsm++ I see get recommended everywhere but skimming the readme doesn't yield a whole lot that seems that revolutionary, outside a bunch of laser guns and more solar powered items. PK's rebalance seems to have even less documentation, and I hear a lot about Coolthulu's rebalance as well .But even stuff like the "makeshift items mod" seems kind of cryptic.

If there's any kind of explanation or common consensus for mods like this, or even just personal opinions on what mods are and aren't worth flipping on, I'd really appreciate the insight from more experienced players than myself.

The one specific question I have, on top of all that, is if the Generic Guns mod is functional. I tried turning it on for a new world and got an occasional error about ammo not being found or some similar message. Is this something to be worried about? Harmless bug or am I getting whole stacks of ammo not generating or something? I'd really prefer to have it on if possible, though, since as someone who never cared about the minutiae of real world guns it's much easier to manage the descriptive names than the model names.

Thanks in advance.

Vib Rib fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Jan 3, 2018

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Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Dress up three of your NPCs in tuxedos and play catch with a football in some brick alley between raids. +10000 morale.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Isn't it possible to craft antiparasite drugs and painkillers from herbs and stuff now, though?
I'm not saying that invalidates the above complaints, just that there's methods of mitigating it. Besides not eating raw meat in a post-apocalyptic setting.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Motherfucker posted:

There are a lot of 'quality of life' improvements like that designed to combat the 'realism' crowd who actively make the game worse.
Well, I hope they win, but as someone who doesn't like the insistence on realism (I played with Generic Guns on, for starters) I never found the realism too terrible.
Except I guess broken limbs are almost worse than death because it's boring as gently caress just sitting in place and waiting over a week for them to heal.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Ah yes, the autodoc. "Auto" in this case meaning "manual, and requiring intense amounts of player skill and commitment".

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I'm in it for the hoarding, the gradual increase in competency/utility that comes from it, and the basic gameplay loop of building up a home base and making raids to surrounding areas, each time returning with more and more supplies I'll probably never use.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I'm exactly 342 builds behind. After all the talk in this thread though, I kinda don't even want to update.
Is there a condensed list of major changes over time? I don't care about reading through 10k version notes but an overview of significant changes (if any) in the last 4 months might be nice to have so I can make an informed decision.
If not, I'll probably just stick with it.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

Yeah. The thing I don't understand is that there are a ton of very fun but spergy survival sandboxes out there that somehow manage to avoid that sort of fan.
As long as I'm looking, any recommendations on that line?

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Motherfucker posted:

My poo poo is already in the main trunk, its in every version. I am a 'developer' you see in this hypothetical. From now on if you don't want to eat poo poo all you have to do is mod my actual feces out of your game forever, because they're in there deep. Its really simple to do, just be like 'no poo poo please' but you have to specify now. Forever.
Mods seem to have pretty good stability, just from what I've seen. Like if you go back several years you'll find major format changes that haven't survived but a lot of the simple stuff especially can last a long time.
The gun changes so far sound pretty good except someone mentioned shotguns took a big nerf? Which is weird because in any game (and any zombie setting ever, and I would assume real life), it's a pretty solid close range 'gently caress you' instant solution. I mean, nerfing a close range shotgun's damage in a zombie game feels like the most pointless thing you could do.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


It's an incredibly dumb change, and also I think in all my time playing I've found like, one crane.
Having and mounting/unmounting them isn't an issue, finding and salvaging them in the first place is. Just like how every run [of mine] starts off with the same goal of getting all the basic tools hoarded, and how I can't really move forward with a lot of things till I have a toolbox.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

Who would have known that it'd be the removal of tedium that'd bring NPC bases down as a thing?
How do you mean?

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Inventory management and working out which containers piles to dump things into whenever I came home from a raid was always my biggest timesink. It helped a lot when I realized crafting would draw from a large radius, but limited storage and spacing always made me sort obsessively. Remembering my own system could be a pain.

I was going to try and update to the latest version (I haven't brought my install up in 6 months, apparently), and then slowly tweak all the mods I have up to parity and roll back some changes I hate (for instance I was going to compare what they did to 00 shot and restore it), but at this point it doesn't seem worth it. Almost none of the changes I've been hearing about interest me here. Nothing that really bugged me in the first place has been fixed. I'd probably be better off just tweaking what I have now forward than bringing what they've got backwards.
So on a practical note, anyone have any insight or technicals on what they specifically changed re: aiming? My understanding is higher precision is possible now and high accuracy guns/rifles can finally shoot more than half a screen away. Someone said they fundamentally changed how accuracy/dispersion works.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I was recently given a private (and now dead-end) branch of "Generic Guns" which actually updates it. Things may have changed but last I checked a few months ago it hadn't been updated since before the Glock-19 and lots of errors were included in the old GG mod, including things like machineguns being given the wrong ammo belts, ammo belts not disassembling/assembling properly, and apparently (and this was never advertised as far as I could tell), Generic Guns removes all launchers from the game. So I know a lot of people don't use it but it's in my lap now and I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and update it to parity with the new changes. Lots of changes in this version, including readding launchers in a variety of styles, standardizing launcher and rocket ammo across launchers, adding a few new generic-ified gun types and mods, and renames almost every gun.
There's also an optional bridge patch that gives PK's DOOM-style weapons the Generic Guns treatment and integration. That might be hard to bring up to parity because I'll likely have to comb over PK's to make sure it hasn't added anything major in any area that's been tweaked since, but it looks from the Github that it's been mostly minor fixes.

So for my relevant question: are the actual updates regarding weapon/acc changes specific to weapons and ammo, or just tweaks to broader underlying game mechanics? If it's the latter I won't have to change much, but if it's the former I'll have to re-compare almost every change to maintain parity. Also I heard 00 shot had been badly nerfed so I might just tweak that while I'm at it.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


PiCroft posted:

From what I understand, the changes were to the underlying accuracy calculations and not to the guns specifically so I don’t know if that helps.

I do have a question on generic guns and on some of the other features mentioned as it’s been a long time since I last played. With generic guns, I’ve never tried it but during my last couple characters as I realised guns actuallly mattered again, I was put off by the sheer variety of guns and ammo since it made it very difficult to use the guns I found. Does generic guns limit to specific classes (eg, now there’s a “handgun” a “submachine gun” )etc? I’d like to try a game with less fragmented gun types but I do want a little variety.
Like Angry Diplomat said, Generic Guns is largely intended to reduce pointless weapon variety and cut out real world names in favor of more broadly understandable labels. Primarily it does this by:
  • Picking a handful of existing guns to keep, renaming them and pruning the rest, reducing the overall amount of different gun types especially where stats change very little
  • Renaming the remaining guns to be more descriptive, rather than referencing the manufacturer/model (e.g. "pump-action shotgun" is probably more intuitive than "mossberg 500" if you've never heard the names)
  • Standardizing ammo across guns by massively reducing overall types and grouping them to work in a broader range of guns. For instance, rifle ammo comes in "light", "standard", and "heavy", and those have a few variants (e.g. incendiary or armor piercing) that work with the same guns standard type would.
The end result is more compatible ammo and fewer guns requiring proprietary calibers. Guns are easier to understand at a glance for the firearm-ignorant and you end up with more practical, usable ammo and magazines and fewer cases of "I have three exotic SMGs and none of them can use the same ammo".
Unfortunately the standard version also eliminates launchers entirely so that's what this version's trying to fix.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


While I'm not the original creator nor the one who made this branch I do have permission to post this, so
Here's the update of Generic Guns that actually includes launchers.
It hasn't been updated in a few months, but it's still more recent than the original GG mod.

Main change is that it doesn't cut grenades/rockets out entirely. It also fixes ammo belts for machine guns, de-blacklists a few weapons that have now been made generic (like the bicycle shotgun, the combination gun, underbarrel shotgun mod, etc), and renames all the generic guns for alphabetical sort order (e.g. "shotgun, pump action" instead of "pump action shotgun"). The included "what's changed.txt" should spell out the fixes in more detail. If you're using GG already, this should be stable and a bit more flexible.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Angry Diplomat posted:

I still think the nigh-impossible win condition should be "reach a portal and physically enter the gribbly hell dimension (optional: bring your deathmobile with you), then destroy the gribbly hell dimension" and you have to do it for multiple gribbly hell dimensions and each one eliminates a different threat and requires a different weapon of mass destruction.

Wipe out the fungus by deploying some kind of fungicidal fuel air bomb at its heavily-guarded source. Annihilate the triffids by setting off an extremely powerful incendiary device at the heart of their lethal, jungle-like realm and escaping through a portal before the rapidly growing inferno consumes you. Drive out the shoggoths and whatnot by breaching their Lovecraftian Silent Hill horrorshow ur-realm, and then nuking the poo poo out of said ur-realm. Halt the zombie apocalypse by uh. I dunno. That one is probably Earth-oriented. Do a bunch of quests and Lab raids and poo poo and research some kind of vaccine that's insanely difficult to synthesize, and then bring samples of it to the Old Guard. Anyway let us go into other dimensions and gently caress them up, is what I'm saying.
Being able to permanently wipe a threat category out would be amazing. I know I'd get rid of shrooms first.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


PiCroft posted:

Also, I'm annoyed at how much they nerfed solar panels. It's pretty much impossible to power a fridge unless you run the engine constantly.
Don't tell me they nerfed them again? They've nerfed them so many drat times already.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Obviously it's important to make the game as unenjoyably realistic as possible. Except when it comes to solar power, of course, then we need to balance it entirely around game systems and not realism.
And obviously the best way to balance solar powers is to make them basically useless. Sure, they're uncraftable from scratch, incredibly fragile, bulky, heavy, and have to be salvaged in good condition, but it's also important we make them basically worthless.

This fits from a gameworld perspective too, because why the gently caress would anyone use solar panels in a post apocalyptic setting? I sure can't think of any reason why seeking out and salvaging large solar panels in such a world would be the #1 energy priority of basically any industrious survivor or group.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


The idea of playing CDDA with no hostile monsters at all is pretty interesting, and I think with enough balance tweaks it could become a "Last Man on Earth" simulator pretty well.
I'm also big on the idea of having rare, very threatening encounters in small numbers as opposed to just hordes everywhere at all times. Something where you only run into trouble here and there, but you need to pull out all the stops in nearly every fight you have.

There's such a good base here, despite everything. That modularity, I think, is still the game's strong point.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


RabidWeasel posted:

I'd love to play a game that's basically Unreal World with the grognard dial turned up to 12 and there's no other humans around at all. Just you, nature, and the constant struggle to survive.

I'm totally unaware of any game which lets you do even rudimentary basic toolmaking such as producing cord from plant fibres, making stone tools and primitive weapons, etc. other than CDDA, but CDDA isn't really designed for the player to actually have to use these kinds of incredibly basic tools since you can easily scavenge something better.
It also, unfortunately, doesn't account for the gaps in the tech tree you can't craft. There's so much you have to salvage.
I mean, okay, it strains credulity that someone could work up from neolithic tech to smelting and forming iron sheets and building a loving deathmobile out of that and sadly it'd be pointless in a world without roads, since CDDA does offroading so badly but I think there's still a lot of potential for freeing up purely independent progression.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


AppleDan posted:

He types, on a keyboard connected to a computer.
...Which I built entirely from scratch, from things I dug up in the wilderness?

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Coolguye posted:

yeah i definitely feel the whiplash when i go from stone knives to laser cutters in a few months in games but the reality of the situation is that video games are probably never going to bother with that particular issue because the actual way it works irl is a complete pain in the dick to reason about in a game sense.
I'm not really bothered by an unrealistic progression, my point was just more about how there are gaps in the game's tech tree where you can't make a whole bunch of items yourself and have to scavenge them, meaning a "no cities" playthrough will stop really early on the tech trees and prevent you from getting a myriad of useful tools.
I'm fine with them unrealistically blowing through eras of human advancement or winding up with a laser cutter you built from scratch, since playing fast and loose to make things more fun is what drew me to the game in the first place (see also the aforementioned contrast of grognard "realism" vs cyberdeathmobile sim). I'm more about the ability to craft your way up the tech tree (even as an optional "no scavenge" mode rather than a core rebalance), and less concerned with how realistic it is.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


My problem with shockers/shocker brutes is that they stun you for several rounds, pummel you, and then shock you again almost right after so even with a non-conductive weapon I end up spending most of the fight seeing stars.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Kayle7 posted:

Since each turn is 6 seconds, that would have been 1288 game days until I got my hearing back if I hadn't just edited the save

What the gently caress? Surely there's some way to treat that, right?
I feel like this is definitely, at the very least, a system that should be transparent in-game. Some flag of "traumatic hearing loss" that needs medical attention or will basically never come back.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I confess I haven't been keeping up very well. Some of the cool-sounding new features like auto-sorting, NPC-run home bases you can build, that kinda stuff, are those in the main/experimental release yet? Or are they just in the works still?

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Angry Diplomat posted:

I was insanely confused for a second before I remembered that there are people who don't use the Retro chipset.
I really want to use the retro tileset because it's so compact and visually pleasing, plus you see more of the field at once. But I'm used to my tiles, and there's just too many graphics I've come to rely on.
That and cars look way more inscrutable in Retro.

All that said, if I could do it over again I'd use Retro to begin with and learn it that way.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


On the bright side, they did just add bike racks to stow one vehicle onto another.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cataclysmdda/comments/9isldf/public_service_announcement_bike_racks_are_thing/

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


And to top it all, keep in mind that become a fully transformed bird, you have to jump through many hoops. It's something you have to fight for, scavenge for, survive and earn. The idea of arguing that it needs to have as many negatives as positives (and as you said, that balance is incredibly off anyway) is broken from the get-go because this isn't a drat checkbox on character creation "do you want to be a bird".

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


The Cheshire Cat posted:

It should be though. In any game.
Really changed my playthrough of Red Dead Redemption tbh.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Xand_Man posted:

How do you freeze a potato chip?
A lot of food is still edible when "frozen", including potato chips, pork sticks, most snack foods, etc.
Heating them up isn't really a problem since even not starting with a lighter they're everywhere and making a fire drill isn't terribly hard either.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Sure but please don't bring it up because the last thing we need is even more clever utility pulled out for the sake of "realism".

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Also, in cases of extreme urgency, you can hit (f) to begin aiming, then manually steady your aim by pressing (.) to pass a tenth of a turn at a time. You'll see your chance to hit rising as this happens, and it's useful early on because you can let the shot fly as soon as you've got a decent chance, which is also affected by how close the enemy approaches while you're lining up your aim. As things get more reliable you can easily just lean on the preset levels (c)areful or (p)recise, but early on the granular control might help.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Adapt and overcome. Make the mansion your new home. It should have plenty of worthwhile materials in it.
Unless it burnt down, I guess.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


One handy trick is that they only shoot if they can see you, so you can do things like push fridges and bookshelves in front of yourself to block them from seeing you.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


If you have at least 2 NPC followers you can go to any suitable location (the center of any 3x3 square of field tiles on the overmap) and talk to your followers about starting a faction camp. Whoever you talk to will be the new camp leader and you won't be able to train/trade/etc with them anymore but you can talk to them to build up the camp over time, using raw materials, tools, and food supply.
I've never gotten very far because anything past the first few stages requires an obscene amount of logs/2x4s but ostensibly they can do things like run farms, smiths, and even vehicle chop shops for you.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


The recently added difficulty of finding and using Autodocs also makes the Broken Cyborg start all but impossible, since your rapidly failing health and constantly interrupted sleep will probably lead to dwindling HP long before you're capable of both finding and clearing a hospital.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I gotta agree that the game is generally more playable and more fun than it was when I first picked it up a couple years ago, and that's not even counting the relatively recent UI upgrades to common actions. I definitely think some stuff was over-balanced, and the freezing mechanic needs more work to be less obnoxious, but on the whole it's trending upwards and I can't relate when I see so much public consensus about the game being unrecognizable/unplayable now.
Different strokes I guess.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


In the somewhat infamous PK's Rebalance mod, acid rain returns but it only deals pain, not damage. Still very bad to be caught out in.
That said the benefits (infinite free acid water) are pretty minimal given how easy it is to get batteries and acid in numerous other ways.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I'm pretty sure there's already an update underway about making fabrication tools more granular and specialized (chemistry was the one I heard this discussed about, then likely other fields), so hey don't worry, crafting will be even harder in the future to satisfy "realism".

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Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


queserasera posted:

How do you thaw frozen food without a hotplate? A pot over a fire doesn't work.
(A)pply the pot or pan.

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