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RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


This is one of those games that's fun to fail at, I must have spent 3 hours today just running around with the flu, sleeping a lot and spending way too much time crafting random junk.

On the plus side I finally figured out that you're supposed to load needles up with thread and you don't actually need to make dozens and dozens of needles in order to sew stuff together :v:

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RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Encumbrance is on a new scale where 10 = the old 1 and it gets floored down to the nearest 10, so if you have say 5 encumbrance it does nothing, 13 is the same as 10 which is the same as old 1, etc.

I guess they did this so that there's a bit more variance with gear though I don't know why they didn't just use decimal values, it would seem a bit more intuitive.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


So I decide to start a new game in a burning pawn shop, I spawn directly next to some decent clothing and the shop is full of swords, I manage to grab a katana and get out before catching fire. Blunder through town a bit avoiding zombies, somehow end up in a mil surplus store containing a bunch of bottled water, medkits and books, some more gear and a rucksack and duffel bag.

If I manage to gently caress this one up I'm going to be sad.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


dylguy90 posted:

You are actually the best. Gonna try this out tonight and report back ❤️

I'm gonna do dumb kung fu in a wolf suit, I hope it makes you grumpy.

Larry Parrish posted:

I hate how getting an infected wound is usually a death sentence. Is it a bug or a feature that disinfectant doesn't actually disinfect unless you use a first aid kit. Is that a feature of high first aid skill or something. Also, antibiotics usually works, of course, but it's a crap shoot having that actually spawn before you die.

Disinfectant is for fresh bites, infected wounds are bad poo poo that need antibiotics or first aid kits. It's kind of lovely that the game makes it sound like you might be able to disinfect an infected wound, the failure message should be more decisive.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Anyone who's been playing experimental have an opinion / advice re: the encumbrance changes, other than the obvious one of "this loving sucks"? It messes around with early game clothing choices enough that I no longer really know what I should be looking out for, cargo pants and hoodies no longer seem like such a great deal.

For those who haven't tried it basically the bonus for fitting gear no longer floors at 10 so the end result is greater encumbrance on clothing with base encumbrance <20.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Larry Parrish posted:

Sometimes the Cataclysm inventory system would make way more sense if you had to put stuff in containers.

They want to do this but don't want to actually implement it until someone comes up with / codes a way for the game to automatically put poo poo in bags for you in a way that doesn't require tons of micromanagement.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Admiral Funk posted:

Yeah I think it's "+" to get to the layering screen. It gives information on incumbrance, warmth, and stuff. Make sure your armor is in the outer layers.

Why do I keep finding out about these significant game mechanics that I was totally ignoring? :negative:

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


tooterfish posted:

edit: strike the purse. You can still make that work by wearing a jumpsuit instead of a hoodie though.

If they're going to keep up with their early game changes I expect jumpsuits to get nerfed because they're just about the only thing with any stats worth mentioning that still has <5 encumbrance.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Skill rust is a pretty good idea - or at least having some system in place to make it more difficult to be amazing at everything - but it's implemented in an extremely obnoxious way.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


SynthOrange posted:

Oh man the Abandoned challenge start now lets you pick Broken Cyborg. That start is looking very tempting now.

Do you still get Frail?

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


I know there's already way too much mostly-pointless simulationist junk in this game but it would be funny if you got medical problems from only eating hideous non-foods. I always make my characters junk food intolerant just because I bizarrely care more about my imaginary zombie punching person having a good diet than forcing them to do all sorts of other awful things :v:

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


AceRimmer posted:

There's people that play this game without disabling zombie revival? :psyduck:

I was about to berate you for being a big baby but thinking about it; it only adds a minimal amount of busy work with the extremely rare occasional moment when it has some actual gameplay signficance, so yeah, gently caress that, I'm putting it in the box with skill rust :shobon:

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


I'm using experimentals with the Medieval Weapons poo poo, is there any way to learn the Medieval Swordsmanship skill other than by starting with it?

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


tooterfish posted:

The book spawns in mansions, it was really common last time I played too.

OK, now I have an objective :v:

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


I just started a new game inside a survivor house full of traps, moved one square and got blown up by a land mine :psyduck:

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


If you fail at crafting something do you have a chance of randomly destroying any of the items used to make it or is it just the smaller components such as thread, leather etc?

I'm mildly worried I'm going to gently caress up all my poo poo trying to sew it together into some kind of monstrosity suit, which is a thing you can do apparently.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Elated to find a coffeemaker I can disassemble for parts, :saddowns: when I accidentally butcher it instead and somehow all the expensive internal bits cease existing :negative:

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


bitcoin bastard posted:

Evac shelter or LMOE start? The sheltered survivor start sounds awesome at first, except you start a year in so as soon as you find a town, you get hosed by 3 shocker brutes and a hulk.

This is why sheltered start is most fun, you get a solid bit of equipment and good stats but in exchange it's loving cold outside and there's shockers and brutes everywhere.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


I was going to make a huge spergy rant about clothing stats still being really badly balanced but Coolthulhu saves the day :iia:

Though either the new stats are still really unbalanced or I've been seriously underestimating the value of having slightly more resistive clothing, probably the latter.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Shady Amish Terror posted:

You pretty much have the gist of it as far as nu encumberment. The specifics keep getting shuffled around in the experimentals, but the basic idea is to create more nuance by making it so that articles of clothing can contribute portions of a point of encumbrance without necessarily being encumbering on their own. It also coincided with a number of nerfs to armor, encumbrance, and layering, with the presumable goal of making it harder to game the system and making it simpler (theoretically) to pick a workable outfit without just jumping straight to being bulletproof by layering kevlar-reinforced fireproof socks or whatever.

They did just recently buff a ton of armour items so they're actually worth using, the medieval mod "man at arms" start is pretty fun.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Yes, katanas and the dumb weeaboo weapon skill are both nerfed heavily, so they're now just top tier instead of doing like 2-3 times more damage than everything else (this is in experimental builds only)

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


emanresu tnuocca posted:

I dunno if Katanas are any different at the moment but smacking my broadsword at doors and sometimes even at the tougher zombies will damage it.

Are you sure it's not an inferior quality broadsword? They look the same unless you read the item description but the inferior one will get damaged easily.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


There is a LOT of cool poo poo being worked on in Github right now:

- Non-sealed containers with open tops so you can finally fill a loving cooking pot with water (they can't be placed into the inventory or on a vehicle)

- Crafting inventory so you can highlight an item in the craft menu and see how many of each of the components you have available, very handy if working with limited resources

- Bionics slot system so you can't just use every bionic you find

- Item variants being set up as actual variants in the code, which has potentially huge implications down the line for crafting etc.

- Following from the above, item variants will show their 'base' and 'derived' stats so for example you can see the difference in your handloaded 9mm ammo compared to the regular kind; it will show as -2 damage +10 recoil etc.

- Lots of unsexy balancing and code rewrites

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Motherfucker posted:

This is not improving your game you shittttt

You're bad and dumb but I am sure there will be a "no bionics cap" mod.

bitcoin bastard posted:

This has been in for a couple months unless I'm misunderstanding.



This doesn't show how many you HAVE of anything, other than the fact that it shows that you have enough for each recipe. The new system will show a full count of those items so you'll know if you have just enough rags / w.e. for your item or hundreds of them.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Maybe you should stop eating gently caress tons of vitamins.

It's kind of a pointless addition but I like the encouragement to eat actual food and not just munching down on mystery meat and booze all day every day.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Yeah honestly if they ever seriously rework the skill system I want crafting to be more based around 'projects' which you work on gradually over an extended period. Like if you're just learning tailoring, instead of holing yourself up somewhere and making 30 pairs of socks or whatever you will spend an hour or two tops a day for 1-2 weeks working on a single larger item and you get a whole skill level from making 1 thing. And then at higher skill levels things can get really crazy.

At the moment if you're going to take skills at all at character creation there's no reason to start with most skills below 3 or 4 because you can grind up to that level very easily in a day or two, which makes no sense.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


The game just desperately needs someone to sit down and rationalise the whole thing but unfortunately the guy closest to doing that at the moment has a history of making extremely bad gameplay decisions because realism or 'this implementation isn't perfect so we're keeping the existing even worse implementation'.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Quiet Feet posted:

Last night in my armored death RV I tail swatted a sedan into a zombie, smashing it up against a parked van and crushing it.

What do I win?

If playing dozens of hours of Carmageddon as a bloodthirsty child taught me anything, some kind of artistic interpretation award.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


The Cheshire Cat posted:

I feel like the major first hurdle that needs to be overcome is defining what exactly Cataclysm is meant to be ABOUT. What is the overall point of the game? Is it a sandbox? Then the design goal should be to include a lot of toys to play with an interesting stuff to discover. Is it a survival game? Then the design goal should be about creating a difficult, unrelenting atmosphere that you can slowly tame and master. Is it a Roguelike? Then the design goal should be about setting up a progressive series of challenges with some ultimate "endgame" objective to aim for.

Those aren't necessarily exclusive, and there's other options as well, but really my point is the question "What should the player be trying to do?" should be answered before moving on to finer design details.

Yeah this is exactly what I was going to say, the game currently is a big bundle of different ideas thrown together without any concern about if they make a coherent game experience. Most telling is how messed up the difficulty curve of the game is, if you know what you're doing you can get yourself into a position where you're almost immune to 'regular' threats (normal zombies, starvation, etc) without ever having to expose yourself to any risk, you can then start large scale foraging and making murder vehicles and generally loving around while entirely bypassing the survival aspect of the game. Which is great if you just want to gently caress around, except if this is quite trivially achievable why not just have the game structured so you don't have to go through the 'gradually building up strength' busywork phase? Conversely, if dealing with general survival is supposed to be a meaningful part of the gameplay then you shouldn't be able to bypass it so easily.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


As strange as it might seem the melee weapon skills are something I really love about CDDA even though you don't actually do anything to make them work - they make the combat feel a bit more fun and dynamic and make you feel really rewarded for getting your weapon skills up, finding a new weapon, or learning a new style, moreso than just doing more damage when you hit a guy.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Zombie evolution is a decent idea conceptually (it should encourage you to play in a less conservative way because you're worried about falling behind the curve, while simultaneously preventing normal running around cities from becoming totally safe) but it doesn't actually work that way in practice.

I definitely agree that even with the balance and power curve for the game being wildly out of line, just adding QoL improvements to reduce time spent in menus etc. would be excellent.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


That mission statement sounds pretty convincing, and "does this enable a good story" is a very strong litmus test you can apply to just about anything. I like it. You want to streamline the game towards making cool and fun stuff happen.

"Setting the stage" reminds me that I really don't like the current character generation system, do other people feel as strongly about it as I do? In particular I don't like the fact that it encourages you to build a super strong character with high stats, some useful traits, and a ton of flaws which actually barely do anything. Also most of the backgrounds are objectively worse than a small subset of them, if you're looking at them from a purely gameplay perspective. I feel like a better system would be one where your stats are determined purely by your background and the rest of the character generation system can be balanced around that. This would allow the backgrounds to be more distinct from one another, and also prevent you from just going all in on stats like you can currently. You could even fold the scenario and background systems together entirely, which would further cut down on choices to be made during character generation, but also allow individual backgrounds to be even more distinct gameplay experiences from one another. Having a slightly more difficult starting situation shouldn't give you a huge leg up in the mid game because it gives you a ton of extra stat points.

Basically I want to feel like there's a good reason to start as a cop or a firefighter or one of those other few dozen choices that sound fun but don't really mean anything other than gimping you a bit.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


The thing about water in particular is that it's trivial to acquire in large quantities even very early in the game if you're willing to put up with some tedium, and does virtually nothing thereafter. That doesn't sound like a recipe for a good gameplay mechanic.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Coolguye posted:

Also, with regard to getting off quick and having dumb fun quick: One of my suggestions that went over really well in the Discord was to have a small handful of 'starter' backgrounds/builds that are a blatant cheat and generally trivialize combat in return for letting people just get up and get moving. The two that came up were kung-fu master (which would drop you in with a generally min/maxed tiger kung fu character that could just poo poo on everything) and navy seal (which would drop in with a combat knife, lots of melee skill, plenty of guns and ammo, and probably a 'trained in gorilla combat' joke in there somewhere).

These of course will just be something you can press and none of the current options should go away, it's just a matter of communicating to people 'look, it's fine, just play the game the way you want and have fun, sheesh' right off the bat to get them onboarded.

Some intentionally 'easy mode' starts would be an excellent addition, I think, but I wouldn't like for that to be an excuse for allowing the current balance issues with character generation to be ignored (not that I'm saying that you will, just that previously people used "backgrounds aren't supposed to be balanced" as an argument for them to remain wildly unbalanced).

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


esquilax posted:

Development has stalled a lot, it's been 3 years since the last major release. It's still the same good game it's always been.

Most of the development seems geared towards making the game worse, or at least is tangential to actual improvements that nearly everyone agrees on, which doesn't help.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


goatsestretchgoals posted:

On a particularly bad run, I ended up killing a feral by throwing a toolbox at it repeatedly.

Unexpected Space Station 13 crossover

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Vib Rib posted:

The idea of playing CDDA with no hostile monsters at all is pretty interesting, and I think with enough balance tweaks it could become a "Last Man on Earth" simulator pretty well.
I'm also big on the idea of having rare, very threatening encounters in small numbers as opposed to just hordes everywhere at all times. Something where you only run into trouble here and there, but you need to pull out all the stops in nearly every fight you have.

There's such a good base here, despite everything. That modularity, I think, is still the game's strong point.

I'd love to play a game that's basically Unreal World with the grognard dial turned up to 12 and there's no other humans around at all. Just you, nature, and the constant struggle to survive.

I'm totally unaware of any game which lets you do even rudimentary basic toolmaking such as producing cord from plant fibres, making stone tools and primitive weapons, etc. other than CDDA, but CDDA isn't really designed for the player to actually have to use these kinds of incredibly basic tools since you can easily scavenge something better.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Anticheese posted:

You could always start a youtube channel doing these things in a patch of Australian forest! :science:

Watching Primitive Technology videos is what made me realise that there's actually a lot more scope for people to make poo poo with absolutely no infrastructure than I ever realised. It seemed like it could make a great premise for a game.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Yeah Cody's Lab is a lot more CDDA territory.

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RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


I like the point pool system since it makes you actually start out with skills and sometimes it's not completely stupid to start with 95% of the backgrounds.

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