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The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

I just got into this game after having been interested in it for ages but never getting around to it. I'm getting the hang of the basics of surviving past the first day (mainly not to go straight into the middle of the city), so I've got some basic newbie questions:

-Are there any ways to bulk-interact with items? I know you can craft in batches in the & menu but what about something like disassembling rags into thread?
-On a similar note, what about interacting with items on the ground? e.g. 'a'ctivating an item without picking it up.
-It seems like sources of long-lasting light are annoyingly hard to come by so I end up having to do all my reading right next to an un-barricaded window. Is it possible to build some kind of generator/light setup for indoor lighting eventually?

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The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Related to vehicles, I can't quite figure out manual aiming of turrets from the vehicle additions pack. I'll 'e'xamine the controls, pick "aim turrets manually", get the targeting cursor, move it over a target and hit f... then nothing happens - it just drops me out of the aiming interface as if I'd cancelled out. Am I doing something wrong or is that feature just not working yet?

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

The Lone Badger posted:

I approach skull rust from a different (gamist) perspective. Without skill rust toe skills only ever go up, meaning that over time every character becomes omnicompetent at everything. Limiting how many things one person can be good at preserves character distinction.

The current system does that but making it so that if you ignore a skill to obsessively practice another you will lose your edge. It is, however, very annoying.

I would make it voluntary. The more total skill points you have, the slower you gain xp. You can mark a skill as obsolescent, in which case it starts decaying until you say stop. About skill not so marked means you are diverting part of your attention to keeping it current and will not 'rust'.
This way you can choose to be a jack of all trades or master a few.

It seems like rather than marking skills to rust, it would make more sense to mark skills to NOT rust, then you'd just have a cap on how many you could "save", probably based on int and maybe boosted by traits/mutations/bionics as well. This would represent skills you specialize in, so even if you aren't actually practicing them, you're generally thinking about them and so they're always fresh in your mind.

On top of that, practicing a skill by any method (even one that's too easy to actually raise your exp in that skill) will temporarily mark that skill as "fresh", and thus it won't even start rusting for a little while (at least a couple of days, so you don't start forgetting stuff you did that day while you sleep). Even once a skill starts to rust, it should be a progressive thing - you don't suddenly start forgetting things at a linear rate. Thus you wouldn't really need to mark your primary combat skills as a focus, just because you'd be getting enough practical experience in that you wouldn't actually have to dedicate mental effort to staying sharp, but if you only fire a gun once in a blue moon it does make sense that you'd be out of practice.

It's kind of a weird system in general because "skills" represent a range of things both physical and mental in the game, and any one system is not really going to fit intuitively with all of them.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Coolguye posted:

the vast majority of batteries i run into are dead as hell so finding any battery with any charge is a colossal pain in my dick

Yeah I've had this problem too. Every vehicle I find is between 0-5% battery, so not being able to just shove batteries in by hand makes it essentially impossible to use ANY vehicle batteries. The only exception I've found so far was a solar car, which I'm assuming probably spawned at 0-5% but had charged up to about 50% by the time I found it.

If they aren't going to have it so you can just "refill" car batteries by hand, they should at least implement some kind of handheld jump-starter item to bridge the gap.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Note that shopping carts don't actually need wheels to be dragged around - they just make more noise that way. It should be simple enough to head out to grocery stores or liquor stores and at least find one with an intact basket.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Mzbundifund posted:

Doesn't it take more time to drag a shopping cart without wheels?

I'm not actually sure - I've never checked. Speed isn't a huge issue since if you need to get into a fight while dragging a cart, you just drop the cart (which is a hell of a lot faster than trying to strip off 5 backpacks). If you need to run away from something instead of killing it, the area probably isn't safe enough to be scavenging such a huge volume of stuff that you need a shopping cart in the first place.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

If you have a big heavy vehicle with tank treads, does it take damage when running into other vehicles or will it just crush them and drive over?

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Yeah I haven't messed with wandering spawns yet but what I've read about them is it's still kind of a work in progress - it will happily spawn zombies inside your trapped/barricaded compound because there's currently no logic to check if it would actually be possible for them to get in.

The main issue with static spawns is because it's all front-loaded, there's no difficulty scaling at all - you can run in to a lot of nasty high level enemies on day 1, so you need to be very careful when heading into cities.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Are NPCs smart enough to feed themselves with needs enabled? Or will they just stand there and starve to death next to a fully stocked fridge because they're waiting for you to give them something? I feel like the first major barrier to making NPCs useful is to make the AI at least somewhat self sufficient - have it know how to scavenge supplies, maybe even eventually craft things based on their skills.

I like the idea of creating a kind of wilderness refuge filled with NPCs, keeping them warm and fed, but I don't feel like the AI is there yet.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 20, 2016

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Solid Poopsnake posted:

:siren:IDIOT QUESTION AHEAD:siren:

To make it clear, I don't develop software, I don't follow software development, I don't know anything about it, I don't even know how to read. That said: Isn't CDDA totally open source? I mean, I absolutely agree with a lot of the complaints about what passes for the direction of development, but there's a very fun foundation here. Is the only thing stopping another party from forking this game into something they want to see time and motivation?

No that's pretty much it. The thing is that your fork would have to make fairly substantial changes to really catch on (since anyone playing it is also making the decision to go without any updates that have been added to the main branch, so the trade off needs to feel worthwhile), which means there's a big barrier to entry just from a work/creativity standpoint. If what you're doing is just some minor tweaks, you're better off just making a mod.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

coyo7e posted:

Is dragging stuff like bookshelves to block windows worthwhile? Or do I need to work for construction? I tried putting up 2 or three but haven't had much success - do they also block incoming light so I can't crat and read? I keep having this problem..

So when I'm crafting I tend to not have any trouble for the first afternoon and then after sleeping and getting some skills up to 1-2, beginning to make a kit of gear etc.. It seems as though my character just loses the ability to do anything, most of the time. I try to (R)ead a book and get "you can't see that" (although if I try to read a different way via the (inventory) and then (R)eading after looking at the book it works - sometimes). Also it's super duper hard to sleep, on a bed or out of a bed, with blankets lying around or worn, etc.. I don't really get how sleep works.

Also without some kind of timepiece I have no idea what time it is a lot, because of the weird plus sign and blue bar that I'm not really sure if that's the sun overhead, but then what's the blue poo poo..? What rate do torcehs and flashlights and glow sticks wear down?

Tough game, I've been tempted to turn off special zombies now that I've almost gotten to the point where I can make myself a duffel bag and knife spear and run around going to town on poo poo, but eventually some K-9 zombie will spot me and run me down.. I keep starting out with my shelter ridiculously close to high-threat buildings like military, or hospital, big stores, etc.. Is there a starting location I can choose besides the weak evac shelter, that's usually fairly reliable? I started in a pawn shop once which was p good but I was surrounded by buildings in daylight and had Zs coming in the windows before I could even loot the place.

Blocking windows: Yes it will block off the light so you won't be able to craft/read by daylight. Zombies will eventually tear through any wood-based barricade anyway so I don't tend to bother (I play with static spawns though, so once you clear out your initial area fortification isn't really that important anymore).

The time interface is a bit confusing - basically it's meant to represent the position of the sun/moon in the sky. The blue is just the lit up sky, and even when the sun is over the horizon you've still got enough light to see by for a bit longer. Likewise, it gets light out earlier than when the sun actually shows up on the bar, so if you're getting up and you can already see it on there, you've actually lost about 3-4 hours of daylight which might be why the days are feeling so short. Also if you're having trouble seeing things, make sure you aren't wearing anything that gives eye encumbrance (glasses/goggles, any kind of face mask, etc). Light sources all wear down at different rates - torches don't last long but since you can easily craft them you don't have to worry about supply too much. Flashlights last quite a bit longer but I wouldn't use them to read - you'll just burn through your batteries. They're more for doing exploring at night. Glowsticks last a VERY long time and although they only produce one tile's worth of light, it's still enough to read by. The downside is that you can't turn them off once you activate them so you'll want to be sure you won't have to go to sleep immediately after cracking one open.

Sleeping will be difficult early on, mainly because of temperature issues (you start the game in early spring by default so there are many days where it will still be near freezing). You don't need to actually wear blankets to use them - just having them sitting in the same tile as you will use them automatically. The sleep system is kind of complicated but basically it boils down to comfort + warmth. Things that boost comfort are like proper beds, cots, sleeping bags, etc. Meanwhile trying to sleep on debris or some other kind of obstacle will decrease your comfort - if you don't have a proper bed or something bed-like available, a bare floor is better than trying to sleep on a table. Warmth comes from anything that can be worn on the torso or legs in the tile (so blankets, but also shirts/pants, and again, don't have to be wearing it, just have it lying there on the bed), as well as the bed itself if you have one (better stuff is warmer - beds for example are twice as warm as sofas). It also takes into account how tired you actually are, so you'll have trouble sleeping if your energy isn't at least at "tired", and especially if you've got caffeine or other stimulants in your system (sleeping aids like ambien will make you feel more tired, as you'd expect, thus make sleeping easier).

With static spawns pretty much any starting point or near a city will be dangerous - one of the ones I've taken a liking to is the school. It's a rough first few days since you're going to be plowing through dozens of zombie kids which will take a toll on your mood and although they're individually weak there's so many that it's easy to bite off more than you can chew and get swarmed. That said, there are lots of doors you can funnel them through to take them on one at a time, and if they do start to swarm, they're slow and the school is big, so you can lose them pretty easily just running in the halls. Once you clear it out though there's a ton of good supplies available and they tend to be near enough to cities to make scavenging trips but not so close that tough zombies will wander over to you, plus you will have a ton of skill books in the library so you can spend a few days just cramming to boost your skills to reasonable levels - this is especially good if you happen to find books that boost dodge and melee skills which are otherwise kind of dangerous to learn from scratch.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Feb 21, 2017

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Coolguye posted:

the \ key gives you advanced inventory management, which will let you drop junk in an adjacent tile.

Get used to using this because it is a massive help when you're trying to shift huge piles of stuff. It also lets you move things into/out of vehicle storage so it's useful if you're dragging a shopping cart through a building and just hoovering up everything there.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

The prison start isn't so bad as far as physically getting out goes (although you might have to craft yourself improvised lockpicks just to be able to get through some of the doors). The main problem is the SMG armed security bot outside the front door. Even though inside the prison you can generally find some good combat gear, a single burst from the bot is enough to kill you instantly.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

coyo7e posted:

Cool has it right, and he is also massively downplaying the scary danger level of the stuff in prison too.. I see basically 2/3 tough/brute and usually guards might have a helmet or belt. It's a fun scenario but I feel like it's one I gotta replay 30 times to get a sec bot to move out of the way

Most of the zombies in prisons aren't actually that dangerous (The guards might have armour but they're just standard zombies), but yeah you have to watch out for the brutes since not only will they pulverize you, but they can actually bash through the metal bars to reach you while the regular zombies can't. You generally want to avoid the cell blocks since there's nothing really of value in there and that's where most of the tougher zombies are likely to show up.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

OwlFancier posted:

I dunno I actually think that veering all over the road like a drunken idiot is kind of fun :v:

With how entertaining vehicle crashes are in this it would be a real shame not to encourage them at all times. Just sing off key whitesnake at the top of your lungs every time you get in a car, spin out, crash through half a forest and land in a beehive.

I've never actually survived long enough to get too much into vehicle stuff - how durable can you make vehicles? Like is it possible to make some kind of tank-truck that can plow through a wall without being destroyed? I feel like that would be a fun way to loot a mall.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

I think realism serves the game when it can be used to create interesting situations. Like if you eat tainted food or drink unpurified water, and get sick while out scavenging leaving a trail of puke behind you as you flee all the zombies attracted by the noise, that's interesting. Getting hit with some arbitrary statistical penalty because you weren't eating enough vitamin C isn't.

I can see the intent behind wanting players to diversify their diet, but there has to be a better way than that. I mean a simple solution would just be that food comes in broad categories (like meat, dairy, etc.), and when you eat a meal in a particular category, the next meal you eat from that category will provide slightly less nutrition than it normally would, and so on (down to some minimum value likw 70% of normal). Eating something from another category will partially restore the lost efficiency from the other groups, so that to get maximum nutrition out of everything you'd need to balance at least 3 or for different things. It's not a great system but it basically encourages the same behaviour without crippling the player if they don't want to bother with it.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 19:24 on May 24, 2017

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

I feel like the major first hurdle that needs to be overcome is defining what exactly Cataclysm is meant to be ABOUT. What is the overall point of the game? Is it a sandbox? Then the design goal should be to include a lot of toys to play with an interesting stuff to discover. Is it a survival game? Then the design goal should be about creating a difficult, unrelenting atmosphere that you can slowly tame and master. Is it a Roguelike? Then the design goal should be about setting up a progressive series of challenges with some ultimate "endgame" objective to aim for.

Those aren't necessarily exclusive, and there's other options as well, but really my point is the question "What should the player be trying to do?" should be answered before moving on to finer design details.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Strudel Man posted:

I have to say, as a personal thing, I really hate feeling that every single use of a weapon is a step towards using it up completely. Having occasional damage randomly strike, and which can be made vanishingly rare by having sufficient skill, feels a lot more bearable. More like an unfortunate occurrence than the relentless march of entropy.

You could probably combine both concepts. Make weapon degradation a random chance to occur so you don't feel like every hit is just slowly chipping away at your weapon, but when weapon degradation DOES occur, it's in increments of like 2% rather than 20%, so you don't end up being a few bad rolls away from a full durability weapon just disintegrating in your hands.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Dirk the Average posted:

Ultimately, the backend doesn't matter as long as the player knows what the %chance to hit is. I'm in favor of bullets traveling further and impacting on things behind the target because the potential for shenanigans is much higher, especially with explosives.

Yeah, this is why X-Com is still playable despite using complicated dispersal algorithms for misses - because it only uses those if the much simpler "chance to fire dead center" roll fails, and you get to see the exact % of that roll right on the UI. As a general rule, players probably don't care about the potential dispersal angle or other such details. They just want to know how likely they are to hit or not. All that stuff can be included in the background if you want it (I'm a simulationist nerd so I like when stuff is super detailed like that), but the math should be there to boil it down to a simple "Chance to hit" that you can display.

Also, a helpful feature might be to trace a line on screen after the player fires that shows the actual trajectory of their fired bullet, so they can see where it went on a miss. Maybe a toggleable thing since if you fire a bunch of projectiles in one turn like with an automatic or a shotgun, it might crowd the screen.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Sep 18, 2017

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

John Lee posted:

I mean, to you maybe. I approach characters far less from a mechanical perspective and far more from a goofiness/RP perspective; I think my most-played start is as a punk with rollerblades, just to zoom around whacking zombies with sticks.

Yeah my favorite start is the school, for a similar reason. Mechanically it's a decent start because you have access to a lot of supplies, but I just like the narrative of my character being a moody teen having a very bad day at school.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

I feel like in a sandboxy game like Cataclysm, the focus should be less on "how to win the game" and more just, challenges to conquer. Like, an example would be the demons/netherworld in Dwarf Fortress. Popping it open if you're unprepared will probably spell doom for your Fortress, but people who know what they're doing have not only beaten back the demon hordes, but them went and colonized hell. Some kind of "you will almost certainly die if you do this" challenge that the player has to intentionally trigger (so it's not just some random bullshit that murders them), but that could theoretically be beaten. Hell, have more than one.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Yeah with hordes turned on you have the opposite issue where spawning doesn't respect any kind of fortifications, so building up a fortress is still pointless because you'll just have zombies popping up inside your walls anyway.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Motherfucker posted:

The problem I have with the 'realism' croud is they for sure don't want you to become a cyber-man with a laser-gun for an arm and the ability to recycle your traumatised tears into combat stimulants but they don't seem to mind the idea of a karate master who can survive on the morning dew that accrues on their skin and can judo-flip a hulk. There's tone inconsistency built into their own movement let alone when it butts up against the 'but what if it wasn't obnoxious to play' croud.

It's often the case where people who argue for "realism" for its own sake are very selective about its application, and usually only care when it can be used to enforce their One True Playstyle.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Do all of them. The game style would fit having multiple different "endgames" that you could pursue based on what you found most interesting. No reason for them to be exclusive either - after finishing one you can consider the game "won" but it could easily just dump you back into the game world to keep playing and you'd be free to go after one of the other remaining goals.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Angry Diplomat posted:

Yeah, the problem isn't the idea of deployable cranes - that's a neat concept - but the fact that a) they're required for battery maintenance for some reason and b) there's like no way to access any kind of lifting device in the early game unless you really luck out, essentially locking a huge number of early characters out of the automotive game altogether and forcing them to trudge around hoarding dried beans and hitting zombies with cudgels until they find a car that's drivable in its current state.

Like I literally cannot even begin to piece together any internal narrative that would lead to the battery thing apart from either "being able to quickly acquire a car is bad, no one must obviate the purity of my miserable grindy vision" or "I have literally never looked under the hood of a vehicle." My money is on a combination of both.

I feel like a lot of the more questionable balance decisions of late are rooted in “I don’t know how this thing actually works but believe that I do, and anyone who corrects me is misinformed”

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Do they still starve to death even if they’re in a room full of food (unless you turn off NPC needs) because they don’t know how to eat?

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

It would be nice if spawning logic at least worked in groups. So like if a gun was spawned it would ensure that ammo/magazines spawned in the same spot would be a type that actually goes with that gun.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Angry Diplomat posted:

I still think the nigh-impossible win condition should be "reach a portal and physically enter the gribbly hell dimension (optional: bring your deathmobile with you), then destroy the gribbly hell dimension" and you have to do it for multiple gribbly hell dimensions and each one eliminates a different threat and requires a different weapon of mass destruction.

Wipe out the fungus by deploying some kind of fungicidal fuel air bomb at its heavily-guarded source. Annihilate the triffids by setting off an extremely powerful incendiary device at the heart of their lethal, jungle-like realm and escaping through a portal before the rapidly growing inferno consumes you. Drive out the shoggoths and whatnot by breaching their Lovecraftian Silent Hill horrorshow ur-realm, and then nuking the poo poo out of said ur-realm. Halt the zombie apocalypse by uh. I dunno. That one is probably Earth-oriented. Do a bunch of quests and Lab raids and poo poo and research some kind of vaccine that's insanely difficult to synthesize, and then bring samples of it to the Old Guard. Anyway let us go into other dimensions and gently caress them up, is what I'm saying.

The nice thing about a game like Cataclysm is they could put in as many "win conditions" as they want really, since it's a sandbox. I like to think of it along the lines of like, going for extra runes in Crawl. There's no reason to do it other than you want to - but it's a fun challenge. Being able to make some kind of permanent impact on the world like that would be interesting. Although one of the end-game challenges could also be to just travel to an "alternate earth" which literally just drops you into a freshly generated world (undoing any sort of worldwide changes you've done) with whatever you decided to take with you, so you could always "reset" the game if you wanted to.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Telsa Cola posted:

Cant you just also go off the map edge which generates a new town?

Yes you can always just generate more space but I was thinking specifically in relation to the suggestion I replied to, where by taking certain actions you can permanently eliminate a particular enemy type from appearing in the game.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

For an advanced version there’s also Cody’s Lab. He’s a bit up the tech tree in terms of stuff he uses but he still does a shitload of things like “gonna enrich some uranium in my backyard”.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Also there are birds that are capable of short hops, but not continuous flight, so this is once again one of those cases where "I assume I know how the world works and any evidence to the contrary is unrealistic".

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Vib Rib posted:

because this isn't a drat checkbox on character creation "do you want to be a bird".

It should be though. In any game.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

That seems like another one of those "the devs don't actually care about realism, just arbitrary bullshit" things. Starting a fire with glasses by focusing sunlight like that is actually pretty hard to do.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Marenghi posted:

I’ve seen someone start a fire with a condom full or water and sunlight, similar to a magnifying glass. Standard glasses probably don’t have the focus to start a fire.

But yeah the devs seem to pick and choose what is realism as they like. Which is bit ironic in a game featuring zombies, monster, mutations and bionics.

This is fundamentally the problem with "realism" as a defense of bad game mechanics. Unless you're going to go all in, it's just bullshit to obfuscate the real reason you're making the change (which is probably something along the lines of "this doesn't conform to the playstyle that I deem to be correct and thus should be punished, but not removed, because I am a bad game designer").

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Evilreaver posted:

World End Handling: Reset is a must unless you're a loser butt nerd

And I like to turn on NPCs (static and random) so that I can recruit a horde and forcefeed them mutagen

Don't turn city spacing down (much), they'll very quickly spawn within each other and spam your map with city names, the rest is gravy and/or pick to taste

Is there a way to get the map to generate as one giant megacity without the city name spam?

I have no idea how playable this would actually be, I'm just curious if it's possible.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

I just got back into this as well after not playing for ages. It took me some adjusting since my preferred start (school) is now WAY more dangerous but I still like the roleplaying side of being some moody teen having a very bad day so I've mostly figured it out at this point. All the NPC camp and faction stuff is pretty new to me though - how does that all work? The last time I played NPCs would basically just give you random missions and maybe trade and otherwise were essentially just handy distractions to lead zombies into (and sometimes you'd get lucky like I did a few games ago where they start with a machete and are basically a human blender)

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Angry Diplomat posted:

I'm 98% certain that Cataclysm ignores this and simply stops decay for items that have physically frozen.

Also, you cannot consume said items. So winter is a massive pain in the rear end, now. Getting started is also a bit more irritating because the temperature sometimes drops below freezing in the early spring.

It seems like most items have pretty much the same freezing point anyway.

Dealing with frozen stuff isn't a super big deal since there's lots of ways to heat it up (all you really need is an item with cooking quality and a nearby fire), but it is annoying that you can't just raid a grocery store and eat stuff off the shelves anymore when you're hungry.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

mormonpartyboat posted:

lol the hunting knife has a higher butchering than the butchering knife, and the json has a note saying this is intended because when you're hunting, you're doing a lot of butchering

This is one of those things where it's not strictly wrong, but it's a very bizarre way to look at it. The thing about hunting knives is that they've really good for skinning, while butcher's knifes would be poo poo for that but are very good at chopping through dense meat or bone (which a hunting knife would have trouble with). The problem is both skinning and butchering are both treated the same by the game for simplicity's sake. The simple solution would be to just make both of them equally good at butchering but I guess that's too straightforward.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Cardiovorax posted:

Not much of a hunter here, but butchering knifes are long, thin and slicy, for making meat cuts. Breaking bones and joints is something they actually kinda suck at. That's more what meat cleavers are for.

...I actually was imagining a meat cleaver when I saw the word "butcher's knife", but yeah now I'm realizing a butcher's knife is a totally separate thing more akin to a standard kitchen knife but a little bit more heavy duty. Although I think the game does have meat cleavers as well?

Having some kind of combination "knife kit" that requires a bunch of specific knives to craft and has a higher butchering quality than any of the individual knives would be a good idea. It's not something you can really replicate well without a crafted thing because the game doesn't really know the difference between different kinds of knives - they're all just abstract butchering tools so one of them is clearly just "the best" at any butchering related task.

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The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

I feel like acid rain could work if it wasn't so extreme. The problem with any weather that deals damage is that unless it's got an extremely short duration, what you're going to end up with is essentially a complete scouring of everything that's sitting outdoors. Acid drizzle could probably be brought back, but acid rain needs to be redesigned for it to work in the game.

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