|
okay, so here's the downlow: - homewrecker is not practical; period. it takes an entire day of daylight to make 3 long strings from thread using rags as cutting fodder. the prison mess does not have 3 days of life support to make a homewrecker happen. - improvised lockpicks, however, are very practical. even at 0 mechanics it's not too hard to pop open a door. takes a minute, but as long as the security bot isn't nearby you can do it. - after you exit the prison, you are basically home free. the front gate will be guarded by badass turrets but you do not need to deal with that crap. just go around the outer wall, climb the chain link fence, and whack the barbed wire with your pipe. game tape solved, done. there is a problem however in that sometimes a second security bot can spawn in the main entrance, and that's gg. you can manipulate the security bots by making noise and clanging on the walls with your pipe, but in that one-wide corridor you are going to get shot to death, 100% guaranteed. i have...a very extreme idea on how to handle this particular problem but i require further testing.
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2017 00:21
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 02:38 |
|
|
so, here's the deal. if you take a point in survival to start out with, you can build a fire drill. my initial plan was to set a door on fire and exploit the fact that the yard is technically outside and far away from the walls to burn the entire prison down, and then walk out through the rubble. there's a couple of problems with this, each more of an issue than the last. 1) it requires a ton of time just waiting for the fire to do its thing out in the yard, which is going to be cold. due to the lack of light in safe spots, you can't just bootstrap yourself to tailoring 3 to make some decently warm clothing, and blankets on the infirmary bed are not guaranteed. 2) crafting for an extended period of time in the visitation room is not reasonable. even with Light Step you will eventually make some noise that the security bots will investigate, and then you are cornered. 3) the security bots can sometimes survive the raging hellstorm consuming the prison, and if they do they will spot you trivially and murder you. however, this gave me a different idea. if we have the fire drill, we can get light down in the mess by loading one of the ovens with wood (which is functionally infinite thanks to the large tables and many chairs) and lighting it with the drill. this also solves the primary problem of life support down in the mess; the big issue was not food, the pantry has raw food that can at least keep you going for a couple of days, but water. the only guaranteed source of moisture is the toilets, and if they end up all having tainted water you will not be able to keep moisture in your body. however, you're practically guaranteed to find a tin can of something in the pantry, which you can then use to boil water and get some decent moisture. given the time and light to disassemble thread and craft them into strings, it will take you a few days to get out of the prison, but you can get the homewrecker and do it safely in basically any case. given usual spring starts it is probably prudent to stay in the prison for a few days anyway, since the weather outside will warm up and make it more likely that you will survive a potentially long walk to town. all of this sounds good. the biggest issue i see with it is that you will need to walk past the main hallway twice instead of just once. that poo poo is dangerous enough the first time. this has turned into a delightful challenge and a wonderful narrative. the sneaking past the security bots becomes very horror movie, and then if you survive that part you end up a shivering hobo desperately stoking a fire in a dark hole to keep yourself going long enough to effect your escape. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Mar 7, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2017 16:07
|
|
|
you joke but i tried that having found out that a brute can spawn in the yard. unfortunately, your body gives way before the reinforced glass in Visitation does. also, worth noting: i spawned a homewrecker in debug mode real quick just to make sure it actually could damage a concrete wall, and spoilers it can't. it is still ostensibly worth getting if there is a robot directly in your way because it definitely can break through reinforced glass, but bashing through the walls like the pissed off reincarnation of john henry is not an option. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Mar 8, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2017 08:00
|
|
|
Telsa Cola posted:They can punt you through concrete though, I must have been lucky because I only took a bar of damage to each part. I imagine they can punt you through the prison bars. i've been slammed into about 100 concrete walls during my time playing with this start and i have never been punted through one of them. are you using the stable? that might explain the dissonance here, i'm using the experimental. Shady Amish Terror posted:A question does occur to me, in my tiredness. Is dumping a ceiling with z-levels on and then climbing up to the roof possible, since that appears to be a valid verb now? May require fire/cooperative zombies/cooperative drops to do the required damage, and I haven't tested how robust the option to climb is, only that it has a message for making the attempt; it may need furniture to climb on or a valid grappling hook/other climbing gear, if it works at all. i'm 99% sure that z-levels do not interact with each other in this way, the z-level code is pretty limited right now and has been for years. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Mar 8, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2017 15:02
|
|
|
Carcer posted:Have you guys tried kiting the brutes into the sec bots or are they on different z levels? they can be on the same z-level but the sec bots can gun down the brutes in one smg blast. i'd be surprised if even a shocker brute had a chance against the secbots.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2017 19:16
|
|
|
the sheer number of spawns in a mall tends to mean that unless you are completely done with urban environments you're going to find something you like in there. even just from the zombies around, you can kill so many of them that they're statistically probable to drop a tool or something that you like (a hacksaw immediately comes to mind as something that tends to block people). it's also a good choice for training your chosen combat skill to sky high levels as most of the enemies in there will be low-class zombies. also, the best way to clear them out en-masse if you're looking for just a way to clean the place out is to cause a lot of noise and then pull zombies out to a kill zone that you can safely set on fire. this deprives you of the XP obviously but the context here is that you don't care about that.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2017 07:03
|
|
|
yeah they really need gun skill to just outright increase the damage you deal with firearms, and increase it a lot. by the time i'm ranged/pistols 7 i should be able to walk down a main street with a bunch of mags going all
|
|
#
¿
Apr 2, 2017 08:26
|
|
|
the survivor suits that basically everyone ever is going to gravitate toward for general purpose armor count as waterproof, so it becomes a non-issue regardless after you leave the early game proper.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2017 00:32
|
|
|
i used fire they burn pretty good
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2017 02:15
|
|
|
assuming 0.C counts as the world before, we used to live in a world where a LAW could struggle to kill a hulk. so yes, i feel it is a safe general bet that explosive damage has been tweaked at some point, though how intentional that tweak is could probably be debated.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2017 22:09
|
|
|
my point was more that explosive damage historically has been more about doing an okay amount of damage to a wide area, not utterly obliterating ground zero and the twenty meters around. the ethos has definitely shifted at some point, though i am not sure how intentional it was. flavor-wise, i would generally prefer explosions being terminally lethal, but the player needs more ways to deal with them. grenadier zombies are good in that they can scare even end game players, but they are bad in that the prescribed way to take them is not possible until very late in the game. and even when it is possible, it is not always practical.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2017 22:39
|
|
|
in one word: yes. in more words: holstering any heavy caliber pistol or a laser pistol will work as well, so long as your ranged skill is high enough that you can unholster it smoothly. prioritizing the spawned hacks is more important than shooting the grenadier, because the hacks have fairly low HP. if they blow up close to the grenadier, the deadhead is likely going up in the fireball.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2017 22:54
|
|
|
you can actually make a pretty reasonably accurate pocket shotgun with a sawed off loaded with slug rounds. but that just means you need to grind shotguns instead, so.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
that actually is a good point. i wonder if you could get a half decent SMG into a pistol holster that straps to you nicely. irl you can get them about the same size as a sawed-off as long as you're not using solid stocks or anything, so it's a fair question i think. i'll get another game going tonight and see what i can rustle up.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2017 02:49
|
|
|
the relative greater importance of firearms with explosive things on is what makes me favor unarmed combat as my melee after the first couple of days even the basic Brawling style is sufficient to handle almost all threats if your armor is up to snuff, and it's a right pain to keep trying to pull out your knife or sword when the explosive guys make you walk around with your gun out.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2017 15:23
|
|
|
Slime posted:glyphgryph come back we need you
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2017 15:10
|
|
|
well, really, the whole nutrition thing overlies the concept of micro-damage to a body. a lot of people can handle a few days of roughing it on the move, but a few months is a much harder issue. bad nutrition is part of these micro-damages, they just haven't thought through the larger concept. no game has, really. even something like The Long Dark hasn't even attempted to handle things like walking 10 miles through foot-deep snow giving you a soft tissue injury in your hip, and the subsequent effects of that injury. everyone will model eating literally rancid meat giving you a mammoth stomach upset, but not the mild constipation and discomfort that will happen from being on a bread and water diet for a few days. nobody handles 'wear and tear', basically, and the nutrition stuff they put in was basically a half-hearted shot at it without thinking the problem through at all. i can respect attempting to handle this problem. it actually has a lot of interesting effects. if you got close to running out of supplies and had to run from town to town to restock, having a sore foot and an upset stomach for a few days is an interesting limitation on what you can do when you crash into town. Repeated small scratches to your arm and shoulder really should leave you with a bad crick in it that makes rampaging through a mall progressively more difficult. but even this crap isn't even 10% of the mammoth problem scope we are talking about here.
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
me, circa 10,000 BC: hunting is op, god plz nerf god: no dda devs, tyool 2017: yes Coolguye fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jun 1, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 18:59
|
|
|
the caloric intake of your duder makes some sense i feel, since the presumption is that you're going to be very active most of the time. even if you spend all day cooking and crafting, your character would use a ton of calories just puttering around. a large part of the problem is that the game doesn't have a concept of calories burned vs consumed, so you get hungry cooking exactly as quickly as you would cutting a filthy ichor-splattered swath through a home improvement superstore, which feels weird and bad. that would actually be one of the ways to add flavor to the nutrition in this game, if fighting and stuff literally burned more calories than driving or sleeping. that said, if you want to do something like that you're going to need to overhaul everything and change nutrition values to the number of calories they actually provide, which would be a humongous project and obviously nerf the hell out of the current meta where a V8 provides more fullness than a loving cheese pizza.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 19:08
|
|
|
yeah it's hilarious that i get more excited about parks in DDA than grocery stores, because on a coin flip's chance there will be like 5+ V8s in the vending machines around the park and i can just buy multiple days worth of never-spoiling fresh food for a couple of dollars on a cash card or a couple of punches with my fist
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 19:21
|
|
|
hell a tileset is the default if you download the experimental
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
forking the current code base and cutting out dumb stuff is literally the number one way you deal with a developer doing dumb stuff on github. it's an environment that respects work and achievement far more than most other places on the web. i've considered doing it as well but there is absolutely no way in hell i have enough time to do that stuff right now. i struggle to keep up on my own projects even as is.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2017 14:29
|
|
|
for future reference, a first aid kit can clean an infection that's taken hold. just a plain jane first aid kit.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2017 23:23
|
|
|
the DF adventure mode feels a lot better when you've had people build up a bunch of forts for you to explore, if you're only ever in the randomly generated wilderness and poo poo you've already seen because you built it, it quickly loses its charm. but if you arrive as some badass motherfucker to a hand-crafted fort you know nothing about...well, that's quite a bit more exciting!
|
|
#
¿
Aug 17, 2017 21:08
|
|
|
or we could be mad at the people who are actually doing the damage like, right now
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
all kung-fu is way, way, WAY too drat strong and is one of the primary arguments against the stupid "but my versimilitude!!!!!" arguments. you can talk about how actual kung-fu is immensely stupid horseshit all day long (it is) but these styles are routinely making more of an impact than a shotgun blast to the head. this isn't me calling for a nerf to this, it's fine the way it is because it lets people pay a cost up front and just walk out and have fun punching the poo poo out of deadheads. you shouldn't need to understand that you need x melee and y unarmed in this situation in order to be effective. i should just be able to be like 'want to kill now, plzkthx.' i'm not sure i would've gotten past my first half dozen deaths if i hadn't been able to just pick up tiger kung-fu and 1 melee and gone hog wild. it is, however, a way to say 'gently caress off' when dudes want to do some redundant rebalance based on realism for the gorillionth time instead of making, you know, actual content. a better zombie mutation/evolution setup where spawns have a more reasonable and noticeable curve would be a great first step. pretty much only normal deadheads for the first season, then increasing numbers of minor increases like tough/scarred/shady, and by a year in there are no more normal deadheads and shockers, brutes, necros, etc are common sights. taking another look at skills so things are more clear and fun. my personal suggestion would be to take the specific combat skills (such as shotguns, unarmed, pistols, and bladed) and have them give damage bonuses while general ones (firearms, melee) determine accuracy - right now melee is where everyone goes because you get damage bonuses there but firearms remain their awkward gimpy selves forever. this is hard work but it's focused on making the game a better story generator rather than a better simulator. which is fine, because it's never going to be a good simulator in its current form. really the path forward is to just fork DDA and do poo poo that makes sense/is fun. but i do not have that kind of time even remotely, sad to say.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2017 07:34
|
|
|
Mzbundifund posted:The enormous amount of time and effort it would take to do that. it's this. DDA is a massive code base written in C++, which as programming languages go is a relatively advanced one. anyone who is remotely competent in C++ can easily go out and get a $100k+/yr job for that competency so it's actually asking quite a lot for someone with that expertise to come in and do it for free - they have other options and other priorities that are probably more important to them. even in my case, i am pretty competent with C++ and i'm sure if i sat down for a week i could get up to speed and rock out in the DDA codebase, but i also have basic stuff like family that i need to make sure is taken care of, and programming is what pays those bills. coding for 8-10 hours a day to come home and code more for side projects requires a level of zen that i simply don't have an a daily basis.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2017 18:42
|
|
|
the first step to handling this appropriately would be to get everyone together to pow-wow over a coherent design document and what, exactly, would constitute a 0.D stable release. the fact that this sort of thing was never really agreed to was the first mistake of the current DDA team, and the fact that it wasn't followed just compounded the error. this sort of thing works best if the communication is synchronous. would folks be cool with meeting for a discord call this coming saturday? i'm gonna recommend like 2PM CST, and i can provide both a place and offer to take the notes so we can get our poo poo organized. i can't promise to contribute any development but i absolutely can and will provide infrastructure to make getting poo poo done easier.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 12, 2017 16:08
|
|
|
this is why i was saying we need to get developers who have committed to do work on the project together to make a design document; getting a shared understanding on what is productive work and what isn't is imperative.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 12, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
yup! but it should ideally be done with the folks who are actually going to do the work in a call on discord or skype or something so you can actually talk through these requirements as they come up so you resolve contradictions as they come up and you end up with something the most passionate developers are the most passionate about developing. an open document like that is a good start but it's impossible to build lasting consensus without discussion.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 12, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
as much as i'm for simplification of stuff, i'm pretty sure a massive weapon normalization would cause a riot. on some basic level, it doesn't make sense that the same damage, speed, whatever would be offered by a cudgel as it would a 2-by-sword. the point on combat styles being inherent to the weapon rather than the character are great, though - the only thing that people should be worried about with weapons is how much damage they do and how quickly they do it. beyond that, it's all a matter of the wielder. i'd also recommend what i said earlier with regard to dividing up the combat formula - the general skill (melee, ranged) should influence only accuracy, while the specific skill (pistols, unarmed) should influence damage with that specific weapon type (and probably unlock styles or techniques specific to that type). in this way you can understand at a high level what's going on with combat interactions really easily, while still making a dude who's rocking kung-fu not able to pick up a claymore and instantly be awesome with it. this is possible in the current setting.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2017 17:53
|
|
|
there's a mod in the standard download that replaces all the gunsperg guns with just like 9mm pistols or whatever. i'm not sure what the community consensus would be, but i personally would be all for just making that mod the standard and making gunsperg mode the mod. i think part of the reason guns get ignored by a lot of people is that they immediately know what a machete is, but when you see "VZ229" or whatever the gently caress your eyes just immediately roll into the back of your head.mormonpartyboat posted:I'd disagree, to be honest. Bear with me. like maybe you throw a bone to the people who feel this waters things down by just shoving all the current itemization into a standard packaged mod as per above, but the actual goal is to less make a bunch of things that have identical numbers, and more to consolidate things that are too similar. i can definitely get behind that but one would have to be careful about distinguishing between things that are traditionally found versus crafted. the early game's difficulty and tension is frequently defined by what you find in the first 24 hours, and getting rid of useless but found poo poo like butter knives and forks would make it proportionally MORE likely to find useful and found stuff like butcher knives. obviously though stuff like a 2-by-sword, cudgel, etc though are never found and it's harmless to simply provide different ways to make a serviceable club and say they can all be turned into crude swords/nords given the right material. also, worth noting that something like this would need to be fully done and considered before any sort of combat revamp could even be remotely worked with; i'd argue the itemization matters to the overall combat feel much more than the skill distributions or formulae, which are all implementation details that nobody truly cares about. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Sep 13, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
Well, since work is actually happening, I went ahead and made a fork of the repo for us to do whatever in. Link your github and stuff and I'll get you set up on the project. For actually contributing, I'd like to do this if we could: - All work should be done in branches, even 'trivial' things like updating the docs or whatever. Just name the branch whatever you're doing, so like "updating-docs" or whatever. - When the work is COMPLETE (not necessarily DONE, but the task is finished and it's presentable), issue a pull request to the Master branch. - Someone who's not you should then give the code a cursory look to make sure it doesn't look ridiculous in some way and merge the branch. This has a couple of benefits: - It's easy to see what's changing on task to task, or historically, what CHANGED on a specific task. - It spreads knowledge around a little bit so structurally we're less likely to have a Kevin who is able to do whatever they want by virtue of being the only person who knows how to do anything - It keeps us a bit more honest about how we go about doing stuff to hopefully make the project less of a trainwreck over time. I can help with the writing and organization of the design document - I've done Agile junk irl a lot in addition to my programming work, so I've got enough background to be able to do that without using my entire brain on it.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
Good call. For this thread, right now, just use Git Extensions. It's a graphical interface for Git that makes interfacing with Github a lot easier. I'll be sure to add that when I start screwing around with project documentation.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2017 17:04
|
|
|
The basic way I had this plotted out in my head is that anyone who completes a nontrivial task (basically anything that shows they can get something done in C++) will get permissions to do code reviews and integrate changes, yeah - at least in the short term. Longer term we'll need some way for the major contributors to weigh in and stuff but for the immediate moment I'd say the primary task is making sure someone who's not me has decision-making power on project matters. I honestly haven't even played DDA in months because I've been so disillusioned about Kevin's leadership and the changes that have been happening so I'm absolutely clear on the fact that I'm insufficiently wise to make these decisions myself.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
zombie grenadiers ARE boss zombies imo, the problem is that they are not treated as such by the game's spawn procedures
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
hrm. i'm actually curious how the og xcom handled dispersion. i doubt seriously that had any loving around with arcminutes or whatever, but it worked great for the most part and was quick enough for freaking 486 computers.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2017 17:49
|
|
|
esquilax posted:Wouldn't be surprised if they used arcminutes or miliradians or some other angular measure. The math seems super simple since you can just multiply by the distance from target and a random number to get the size of the miss. looking it up, it seems like they basically had two more or less standard dispersal cones (which almost certainly did involve a little angular math, but it was a single calculation), one of which was a 'hit' cone that deviated only slightly from the enemy's middle, and another of which was a 'miss' cone that could basically go anywhere in a 90 degree arc in front of the shooter. the listed accuracy was merely the chance that the 'hit' cone would be selected, and from there the game just rolled some dice on what the bullet's actual heading was when leaving the weapon and drew a vector from there. this makes a ton of sense on a ton of levels but is likely not terribly appropriate for DDA.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2017 18:06
|
|
|
the worst of the vehicle changes in the CleverRaven mainline were eventually backed out. in the current experimental you can do pretty much whatever you want and it's fine. certain designs no longer work (like i used a 5-wide warbike setup where the front wheels were all road rollers, in the current version this makes your vehicle untenably slow) but in general it's fine. this is one of the only fits of intelligence that have come out of that repo though.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 02:38 |
|
|
yeah, the number one way to handle inventory better would be allowing you to put stuff in actual containers instead of just on your person, so you could, for example, carry around a sherpa bag of poo poo and then just drop it and grab it as needed when things get hot. but that's been a target for a long time at this point. there isn't a good way to allow that without making inventory management more annoying up front. that said, there's a couple things you can/should do. automatic eating and drinking as mentioned should happen during extended crafting, but if that happens then you should just provide a one touch button to drink until slaked/eat until full with the stuff you have on hand, avoiding 'dangerous' comestibles (unpurified water that could ostensibly poison you, food you're allergic to, rotten poo poo). in addition to some smarter stacking that you could make the situation better, though you're not going to really fix it without a more complete approach, imo.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 16, 2017 06:09
|
|