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Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Hey I haven't played CDDA in about two years, is the dev community still dead set on nerfing every fun or useful thing in the game until even the most exciting parts are a tedious slog?

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Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Mr. Lobe posted:

How do you make a single tile vehicle? I assume there is a way besides stripping down an existing one to 1 tile

Extra light frame, saddle, wheelchair wheel, v12 engine

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Marenghi posted:

I had a look on the subreddit to see if anything new going on. Saw someone ask why game changes such as removing solar powered laser turrets can be justified by "these are absurd". And the developer who approved it replied what's unclear, they are absurd and don't follow the laws of physics.

So I'm guessing the development is still being lead by pedants who claim it's all for realism.

It's being lead by a group of turbonerds who believe 1.) tedium is challenge, 2.) the game should be designed to be hard/tedious to someone who has been playing for ten years and 3.) realism only matters when it makes the game more boring.

I mean yeah flaming eyes giving you mushroom diseases is fine, but lasers are not. Guns can't fire more than like 40 yards, but also you need a multivitamin every day or you die of malnutrition in 72 hours.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



SpacePope posted:

At least the game is really easy to mod, and most of the removed stuff can be found in Aftershock. They also allowed a dude to hardcode stuff so that the magic mod could work.

Oh yeah and that's why it's still one of my favorite games. I love that a game this good is open for anyone to turn into anything they want.

The main-line dev folks, especially that guy Kevin, just baffle me with their decisions though. Like if you find out your players really like to do a thing in your game, taking that thing they enjoy away from them so they play the way you like is pretty incomprehensible. Players really like solar powered laser guns, so cut em. Players really like making archers, so nerf bows repeatedly until they're not viable. The game had a longstanding issue where players could eat food and drink water in a game that demands they eat food and drink water, so we made all food and water gated behind defrosting it first for 30 in-game days. It's like they view having fun or progressing in the game as exploits.

Manager Hoyden fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 25, 2020

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



PiCroft posted:

So really, unless Kevin makes a code change so egregious and that it can't be modded out, there's not much point to complaining other than to suggest ideas for new mods or to vent.

Yeah I suppose so but the game is outright hostile to new players, to the point that the mods you're talking about get "obsoleted" and are coded to be invisible to the player unless they dig into the mod's jsons to modify the mods to be available. Like if I don't want to play with filthy clothing, I literally need to know why it won't show in the mod list, go into the mod folder, find out which mod handles that, know to edit the modinfo.json to change a value, then enable it in the game. Hell, even the launcher that makes getting and installing mods a reasonable process won't run on a majority of PCs without editing your AV whitelist.

Yeah that's super simple if you've been following the game for years, keep up with the dev chatter, and have a smattering of technical skill, but if you're just coming into it it's nonsense. And I think that's intentional, which is chris-chan levels of diapernerdery.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Vib Rib posted:

"REAL royal jelly doesn't cure you! It's basically just honey!!"
yes well it also doesn't come from eight foot long interdimensional mutant bees so, you know, that might be a factor.

A giant, floating, flaming eye can give me a permanent and fatal affliction from across the map just by seeing me?

Yes that is correct. Working as intended.

Well at least there is royal jelly, the one way to avoid this unbalanced and arbitrary death.

No that is unrealistic so we took it out.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



And also being able to cure a single disease you picked up arbitrarily should be an end-game reward.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Don't forget your cabinet full of lovingly coded Japanese swords and armor.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



AtomikKrab posted:

I thought it was to convert the game into a truck crafting simulator.

Absolutely not. The dork lead dev has said multiple times his vision is moving away from "engineering" solutions and toward "scavenging" solutions. He basically wants it to be a miserable tin can search, and it kind of bothers him that people are building vehicles and shooting things in the game.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Maarak posted:

I hope some enterprising person will extract a fun and un-gatekept Mad Max game from this at some point. Like an unholy marriage of a Gmod server and dwarf fortress.

Unfortunately cool people with happy brains generally make terrible workers while socially stunted angernerds will toil 20 hours a day to bring their bleak ideas to life.

That's not speculation, many have tried to fork it and it turns out it is near-impossible to get a group of mentally healthy people to work together enough to get much done when you don't pay them.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Has focus been rejiggered at some point? In my current playthrough my focus hovers between 20 and 30, even when just walking around with positive morale. It tells me that focus is trending toward 110 but it's like a quarter of that all the time.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



The only added content from here on out is new systems of tedium. They've been knocking around how to implement pissing and making GBS threads needs for a while and I think that started in earnest around the time they made you monitor your micronutrients to play zombie game.

The ideal end game is sneaking around collecting MREs for ten minutes then hiding away to poo poo and check your body needs spreadsheet for an hour. And also a functional toilet and a bottle of vitamins are the only remaining rewards at the bottom of labs.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Alright how in the heck do you close vehicle curtains? It says they're closeable from the controls, but I'm not seeing the option. Can't open or close them with o or c either.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Has anyone run into an issue where they suddenly can't craft clean water without a water purifier? The trusty atomic coffee maker isn't working anymore.

edit: nevermind, it turns out I accidentally his the recipe

Manager Hoyden fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 31, 2020

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Yeah apparently attaching a material to another material is too unrealistic.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Dandywalken posted:

Theres going to be alot of pissed off players when he finally cracks down on the vehicle system I imagine. People have alot of fun with giant death mobiles. Them being removed will cause a ruckus.

"If you want to make your own game I suggest you do it. I do not care that you don't like the game we are making because I like the game we are making. The audience for this game is the people making it."

That is the response. If you like this game I suggest backing up a copy of every version you play and like and learn the simple json system to change the things that irk you.

One day a version will come down the pipe that is finally too stupid to play and you will probably want a backup of the last fun version.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Arven posted:

I can't imagine it not forking if they take out vehicle construction. Somebody will step up, right? ... Right?

Oh yeah of course there will be a fork that'll be irregularly updated for about six months before everyone working on it gets tired of it and moves on.

That's the thing about these types of games. It takes a very specific type of person to work for free on something this complex and that sort of person is awful. If you want to know what happens to a normal human being when they are exposed to the toxic socially stunted fiefdoms of community development, follow the tale of the deadpeople tileset guy.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Speaking of deathmobiles, what are the rules about turrets firing through/over tiles of the vehicle? Like if install a turret smack in the middle of my car like a mounted gun in a Humvee, will it fire over the other tiles of the vehicle? Or just quarterpanels?

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



The Lone Badger posted:

Turrets are effectively 'over' everything and can always fire.

Great to hear. I've been mounting my guns on the corners of my vehicle like an idiot all this time.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Tin Tim posted:

So I found a crashed attack chopper and two questions came up due to that. Is the gas turbine better than a V12 engine? Can you find good stuff if you take the time to dig through the wreck/rubble piles?

The turbine engines are ridiculously heavy, like way more than you want on a vehicle. The 6000 hp one weighs seven tons, which now that I think on it may not be the worst power ratio if your vehicle is huge enough. Also they all burn a disproportionate amount of fuel!

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



I've been playing the stable, does this mean that containers behave like containers? Like I could drop the rucksack to fight and the items carried in it don't just erupt into a spray of debris because a number went down?

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



I like the ASCII, but I can't play without the status indicators anymore.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Do I actually have to have a full on gas mask to mitigate the bloated zombie gas? I seem to remember being able to use a filter mask but it's not working at all. Badly poisoned head every time.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Is there some bug that makes all labs the one-floor office kind? I've been to like eight in a row with that kind of setup and not a one with an autodoc.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



I always plan to build a settlement with defenses and everything but I always bounce off the clunky construction and NPCs.

Maybe one day we'll be able to wire buildings for electricity and maybe one day NPCs will do stuff, but I get the feeling that the game wasn't really built for that kind of thing.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



goatsestretchgoals posted:

I had a post upthread explaining how to get a vehicle inside and outside of a building. TLDR: Construct an empty door frame and build the vehicle through it.

Oh yeah that's what I do but it's definitely a clunky workaround. It would be nice for the only "vehicle" you make to be the generator you plug into the building so you can use the kitchen, put up spotlights, etc.

I know it's not really what the game was designed for but it would be cool to be able to move from a survivor stage of the game to a settlement.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



90s Cringe Rock posted:

Thank god, they've finally made washing kits enormous and heavy.

Finally. That was it, the one thing holding this game back that needed to be fixed.

Broke: Add gameplay and challenges

Woke: Make existing content tedious and boring

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Taking the piss is the only explanation for "realism" only being important when it is boring, but it's not important when it would make things cooler.

I really do not understand what game Kevin and his bore-fetishists are trying to make.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Mr. Lobe posted:

yeah, imagine if they implemented the kind of realism that was, say, slings powerful enough to split open a head in a metal helmet in the hands of a skilled user, as was historically the case

but no, now a thin panel of wood with grooves carved into it with a rag draped over it is now a massive object

Large caliber rifles in the hands of an expert marksman have a range of 60 yards in this world, but yes let's address a washboard taking up slightly less space than it would in real life.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Leal posted:

gently caress guys water capacity nerf incoming

Summary:
Fix water volume in natural water bodies

Purpose of change:
Fixes issue where players could reliably get/use water

Describe the solution:
Eliminated infinite water, limited naturally occurring water to 5 units per tile


Kevingarande commented on Jul 10:
This is not an ideal fix as it may provide a player with an in-game way to cross small bodies of water which was never intended. Due to engine limitations this is an acceptable short term solution to players' ability to use water. Consider making water poisonous until it is treated with lab reward chemicals.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Dark souls but instead of slaying dragons it's miserably foraging tin cans for three hours.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Hey how about someone makes an end game before meticulously nitpicking gameplay details haha just kidding

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Marcus Garvey posted:

It really needs a real end game imo

Truth.

Also it would be nice if the range of guns/bows reflected real life a little more with the effective range limited by the marksmanship skill.

I mean, real life stunt shots with a bog standard 30.06 are measured in miles. Obviously that is by an expert in very controlled conditions, but right now 20 rifle and marksmanship skill still gets you 360 feet with the longest range gun in the game.

Supposedly this is an engine limitation so who knows.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Yeah ranged weapons are so bonkers. The range of shotguns is literally 24 feet with 00 shot or 48 feet with slug ammo. Pistols max out at around 50 feet. A compound greatbow with the best arrows can shoot 120 feet. For reference, a cdda road is 52 feet wide.

I guess it's another one of those cases where realistic calorie counting is the right kind of realism but shooting things is the wrong kind.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Hub01 if it was filled with joyless bean counters, endlessly rebalancing jsons until they die of a vitamin deficiency.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



It seems like you wouldn't need an actual end to the game, just add a few extremely hard challenges to let the player feel like they have advanced enough to quit the save if they want.

In fact, it's the stupidest possible solution but just adding an achievement system would probably give players most of what they want.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Vib Rib posted:

There is literally already an achievement system.

How did I not know that. I have ever gotten a single achievement or even seen a section for achievements. Is this something in the experimentals or is it in the stable release?

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



I can't find it at the moment, but there is a utility somewhere out there that can transfer your character and any vehicles you have into a new save. If I care enough about the progress I've made that's how I try to bounce back from a corrupted save.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



It would be really cool to be able to scuba dive to areas underwater like sunken labs or whatever.

I guess one of the biggest things I'd like to see is lower z-levels rendered below if you can see them, maybe just darkened a few shades for each level separating you.

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Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Cardiovorax posted:

Given that Dwarf Fortress has been struggling for years with making something like that work, I think that might be a bit more than the engine and the developers can handle.

Has Adams actually been struggling with that, or is it one of the features that he doesn't find interesting enough to follow through with?

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