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Hypation
Jul 11, 2013

The White Witch never knew what hit her.

Grumpwagon posted:

So I got a job offer today, pending a background check. I've never been worried about a background check before, but I'm freaking out about this one a little bit. I really want this job.

The reason is, in a move that seems incredibly stupid now, and definitely not something I'd do again, I fudged the date of my first job to make it more recent. I'm just out of school, and I don't have much relevant experience, so I moved this job up to occupy a time that I held an irrelevant job.

The background check form explicitly says that they may interview former employers. How likely is it that they actually do this, and will uncover this? I have to imagine it won't reflect well, but is that enough to rescind the offer?

Should I just hope it doesn't come out? Admit it now to get ahead of the issue?

Either way, lesson totally learned. The moral of the story: In what should be obvious, don't lie on your resume (at least not about things this easily checked up on).

From the employer's perspective (My experience is in doing grad recruitment and other investment banking job interviews) by the time you get to the point where you have gone through all of the process and found someone you want to hire; it is going to have to be pretty bad before you rescind the offer.

Typically the background check is a basic fact check - verify identity, criminal record and immigration status. They may or may not ask employers the date - likely they will. If it is an external screener or HR they will be more likely to take a formal approach. If they do ask, the bad news is all of the screening reports I've seen contain an exception report. The screener lives for the exception report because it proves they have actually done something. This assumes your old employer remembers the dates too - "Yes that sounds about right" could well be the answer. Sometimes they will get you to agree for them to do a screening report and just not complete it beyond the basics. Here with 1 past job they will be more likely to call.

If they call you on the year of the job then tell them the correct information - it was between X and Y. Agreeing on the spot basically hoses down the whole issue. But it may prompt the next question: So what were you doing between Y and today? This is the question that could screw you over. The tactical answer is to lie and risk getting found out again. The better answer is to say "[helping out.....[stuff]....by doing [this] [at this place]; while [doing this other thing] before pursuing a career. (If that's true of course). Make sure you have this answer ready to go.

Hypation fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Aug 1, 2013

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seacat
Dec 9, 2006

Grumpwagon posted:

So I got a job offer today, pending a background check. I've never been worried about a background check before, but I'm freaking out about this one a little bit. I really want this job.

The reason is, in a move that seems incredibly stupid now, and definitely not something I'd do again, I fudged the date of my first job to make it more recent. I'm just out of school, and I don't have much relevant experience, so I moved this job up to occupy a time that I held an irrelevant job.

The background check form explicitly says that they may interview former employers. How likely is it that they actually do this, and will uncover this? I have to imagine it won't reflect well, but is that enough to rescind the offer?

Should I just hope it doesn't come out? Admit it now to get ahead of the issue?

Either way, lesson totally learned. The moral of the story: In what should be obvious, don't lie on your resume (at least not about things this easily checked up on).

You may or may not be screwed here, it's really hard to say. What's the job? "Background check" can refer to anything from a criminal background check & drug test to a thorough investigation. The more "professional" the job the more likely they are to verify dates of employment. Or they might not bother to check, but then if you're up for promotion with the same agency in the future they may go over your whole history.

How much exactly did you lie? A month off on your start/end date is probably not a big deal. If you are claiming a year of work experience you do not actually have that will get your offer pulled pretty quickly.

Whatever you do don't admit to them you lied. That will get your offer rescinded about 100% of the time.

R2ICustomerSupport
Dec 12, 2004

T. J. Eckleburg posted:

I think I'm finally ready for a resume critique. I've almost posted this two or three times, then at the last minute decided it was all wrong and re-wrote it. I'm looking for a job as a tech writer, still working on my master's but it's a program designed to be done while working full time. I tried to follow all of the advice in the OP as best I could, please tell me if it still sucks! Thank you!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ijdpor1bqxz3z6u/ResumeCritique.doc

Here is a VERY basic critique. Hope this helps!

Goon Approved Resume and CV Writing Service
http://bit.ly/ForumsCritique
My service will get you job interviews!

Darth Brooks
Jan 15, 2005

I do not wear this mask to protect me. I wear it to protect you from me.

To get critique on a resume would I need to use dropbox or post a stripped out version here? I've been dealing with long term unemployment (fired last August, worked from Feb to beginning of July as fill-in) Too many times I'm wonder if there's some flaw in the resume that I don't see or if it's just a matter of numbers (openings versus applicants)

Captain Trips
May 23, 2013
The sudden reminder that I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about
[TELL] Me how to build a resume when I have no accomplishments to tout, no degree, no experience worth mentioning (a few years in general labor jobs and a year fixing computers) and no real idea what type of career I want.

:suicide:

E: I'm just trying to find a job in another city so I can move out of this shithole little town, but I don't have a network there. I'm just browsing Craigslist and it's 50% skilled labor and 50% college student telemarketing.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Captain Trips posted:

[TELL] Me how to build a resume when I have no accomplishments to tout, no degree, no experience worth mentioning (a few years in general labor jobs and a year fixing computers) and no real idea what type of career I want.

:suicide:

E: I'm just trying to find a job in another city so I can move out of this shithole little town, but I don't have a network there. I'm just browsing Craigslist and it's 50% skilled labor and 50% college student telemarketing.

The first step in that process isn't to make a resume, it's to figure out what you want to do.

If your goal is to move, grab the telemarketing job. They aren't picky.

Captain Trips
May 23, 2013
The sudden reminder that I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about
My goal right now is to move, and have a job that pays enough to cover bills, with a couple hundred a month left over for fun. I've just never given any thought to a "career", so I have no idea what I want to do when I get old enough to think about marriage and kids and poo poo.

in_cahoots
Sep 12, 2011
I had a second interview yesterday at a tech company that went pretty well- it was more of a behavioral interview with my future coworkers than a technical one, and the recruiter said they'd make an offer within 24 hours.

It's been 24 hours with no call. Obviously I won't call him tonight, but would it be appropriate to call him/ send him a message tomorrow? I don't want to sound too pushy.

ONEMANWOLFPACK
Apr 27, 2010
Recruiters are scatter brained and full of poo poo. They make a living puffing everything up and say things like that to sound important. As soon as your conversation is over, forget it ever happened and operate as if his prospect never came into your head. They spend all day making these calls and all they can do is try and sell you for you.

in_cahoots
Sep 12, 2011

ONEMANWOLFPACK posted:

Recruiters are scatter brained and full of poo poo. They make a living puffing everything up and say things like that to sound important. As soon as your conversation is over, forget it ever happened and operate as if his prospect never came into your head. They spend all day making these calls and all they can do is try and sell you for you.

Is this true of internal recruiters as well?

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

in_cahoots posted:

I had a second interview yesterday at a tech company that went pretty well- it was more of a behavioral interview with my future coworkers than a technical one, and the recruiter said they'd make an offer within 24 hours.

It's been 24 hours with no call. Obviously I won't call him tonight, but would it be appropriate to call him/ send him a message tomorrow? I don't want to sound too pushy.

Call tomorrow, it's fine. Internal recruiters should have a very good sense of their company timelines and are (generally) not bullshitting you.

ONEMANWOLFPACK
Apr 27, 2010
A recruiter can't make an offer, the hiring manager makes the offer. A recruiter is a middle-person, and inserts themselves as a go between. Them saying you will get an offer in 24 hours is worthless because the actual deciders need to see and meet and approve budget. Internal ones know more than external ones, but that doesn't raise the threshold by a whole lot. External recruiters earn by placement, so they work harder to actually sell their candidates to fit positions. Internal recruiters have their own metrics and whatnot but it is not the same as an external agency, and some internal recruiters are just straight salary don't give a poo poo if they place people at all types.

in_cahoots
Sep 12, 2011

ONEMANWOLFPACK posted:

A recruiter can't make an offer, the hiring manager makes the offer. A recruiter is a middle-person, and inserts themselves as a go between. Them saying you will get an offer in 24 hours is worthless because the actual deciders need to see and meet and approve budget. Internal ones know more than external ones, but that doesn't raise the threshold by a whole lot. External recruiters earn by placement, so they work harder to actually sell their candidates to fit positions. Internal recruiters have their own metrics and whatnot but it is not the same as an external agency, and some internal recruiters are just straight salary don't give a poo poo if they place people at all types.

That's good to know, thanks! This is my first 'real' job so I wasn't familiar with the differences between the recruiter and the hiring manager.

neogeo0823
Jul 4, 2007

NO THAT'S NOT ME!!

Thank god I found this thread. I'm looking for a new job at the moment, and I've known for a while that my resume is poo poo, but I haven't known how to fix it. Apparently I did a lot of the rehashing experiences thing, instead of showcasing accomplishments thing.

What do I do for a job listing where I don't really have any accomplishments to showcase? The job before my current one, I just kind of coasted through it and didn't really do anything that I can think of that was worth a ton. I think the most exciting thing I did was complete my forklift certification for the company, which I'm not even sure is valid outside of the company anyway.

ONEMANWOLFPACK
Apr 27, 2010

neogeo0823 posted:

Thank god I found this thread. I'm looking for a new job at the moment, and I've known for a while that my resume is poo poo, but I haven't known how to fix it. Apparently I did a lot of the rehashing experiences thing, instead of showcasing accomplishments thing.

What do I do for a job listing where I don't really have any accomplishments to showcase? The job before my current one, I just kind of coasted through it and didn't really do anything that I can think of that was worth a ton. I think the most exciting thing I did was complete my forklift certification for the company, which I'm not even sure is valid outside of the company anyway.

The resume service on SA Mart is great for helping you uncover accomplishments. The key is to quantify everything you possibly can and not make any vague and obvious statements. I know what you mean though. Everyone wants someone who has "managed, accomplished, influenced" etc even for entry level or internships but wants them to be "team player" drones who won't accomplish anything here themselves and the cycle repeats itself. So they want you to tell them what you accomplished to sort of poo poo test you to see what kind of worker you are, or at least put yourself out there as.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

neogeo0823 posted:

Thank god I found this thread. I'm looking for a new job at the moment, and I've known for a while that my resume is poo poo, but I haven't known how to fix it. Apparently I did a lot of the rehashing experiences thing, instead of showcasing accomplishments thing.

What do I do for a job listing where I don't really have any accomplishments to showcase? The job before my current one, I just kind of coasted through it and didn't really do anything that I can think of that was worth a ton. I think the most exciting thing I did was complete my forklift certification for the company, which I'm not even sure is valid outside of the company anyway.

-Completed company training in forklift operation in XXX month
-Aquired familiarity with XXX forklifts, YYY logistics management system
-Upheld safety and quality standards; worked XXX days without an accident or near miss

That sort of poo poo. It's not intuitive for jobs where your greatest accomplishment is not screwing up, but if you look hard enough, you aquired skills and you did poo poo, so put that down.

neogeo0823
Jul 4, 2007

NO THAT'S NOT ME!!

EDIT:^^^ Ah, I see what you're saying. I guess I can try and work something out around that idea.^^^

ONEMANWOLFPACK posted:

The resume service on SA Mart is great for helping you uncover accomplishments. The key is to quantify everything you possibly can and not make any vague and obvious statements. I know what you mean though. Everyone wants someone who has "managed, accomplished, influenced" etc even for entry level or internships but wants them to be "team player" drones who won't accomplish anything here themselves and the cycle repeats itself. So they want you to tell them what you accomplished to sort of poo poo test you to see what kind of worker you are, or at least put yourself out there as.

I tried going to the guys site and I'm getting a "server not responding" error from it. I posted about it in that thread though, and am posting here cause I know the guy reads both threads.

I'll try and keep that advice in mind though. I think the biggest problem is that that job was literally nothing more than "punch in, sell stuff, move stuff, do training modules, learn about the products in your department, punch out, go home". I didn't have the chance to try and be better than anyone, innovate anything for the company, or really apply myself. I did learn quite a bit about the various things in the departments I worked, but I'm not sure how "proficient is patio building techniques and interior design theory" will translate to anything applicable in the fields I'm actually interested in.

R2ICustomerSupport
Dec 12, 2004

neogeo0823 posted:

EDIT:^^^ Ah, I see what you're saying. I guess I can try and work something out around that idea.^^^


I tried going to the guys site and I'm getting a "server not responding" error from it. I posted about it in that thread though, and am posting here cause I know the guy reads both threads.


http://mashable.com/2013/08/02/bluehost-down/

Unfortunately HostGator and some other web host are down entirely so the situation is beyond my control. I do appreciate the heads up. Thanks.

Crew Expendable
Jan 1, 2013

neogeo0823 posted:

EDIT:^^^ Ah, I see what you're saying. I guess I can try and work something out around that idea.^^^


I tried going to the guys site and I'm getting a "server not responding" error from it. I posted about it in that thread though, and am posting here cause I know the guy reads both threads.

I'll try and keep that advice in mind though. I think the biggest problem is that that job was literally nothing more than "punch in, sell stuff, move stuff, do training modules, learn about the products in your department, punch out, go home". I didn't have the chance to try and be better than anyone, innovate anything for the company, or really apply myself. I did learn quite a bit about the various things in the departments I worked, but I'm not sure how "proficient is patio building techniques and interior design theory" will translate to anything applicable in the fields I'm actually interested in.

Yeah you can phrase this as "Sold X [pounds/units/dollars worth/gallons] of [product] per [day/week/month/year]." Like in the OP.

The OP posted:

Numbers, metrics, and performance stats are your friend. "Sold over $30,000 worth of widgets to 294 separate accounts during December" vs. "Responsible for the sale of widgets for the Northeastern division" -- which one do you care about? Who cares if the best widget seller sold $1,000,000 worth of widgets? Nobody else knows that!

No one's going to know if you were an average worker:shobon:.

Would you mind sharing what kind of fields are you interested in? If you are interested in anything on the creative side you can try to play up your patio and interior design skills while; interested in a job that requires lots of social skills then emphasize your skills as a salesman; interested in management then emphasize how you coordinated patio construction or something. Presumably, at least parts of your job required you to complete tasks with more than one step or took longer than one day. Those parts should be complicated enough for your to write about in your resume.

Crew Expendable fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 2, 2013

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

ONEMANWOLFPACK posted:

A recruiter can't make an offer, the hiring manager makes the offer. A recruiter is a middle-person, and inserts themselves as a go between. Them saying you will get an offer in 24 hours is worthless because the actual deciders need to see and meet and approve budget. Internal ones know more than external ones, but that doesn't raise the threshold by a whole lot. External recruiters earn by placement, so they work harder to actually sell their candidates to fit positions. Internal recruiters have their own metrics and whatnot but it is not the same as an external agency, and some internal recruiters are just straight salary don't give a poo poo if they place people at all types.

This is mostly false at literally every company I've worked at; internal recruiters absolutely can make offers. (It's more traditional for the HM to do it, and they often do for high-value candidates even at places where the recruiter normally does it, though.) Yes, it's after other people have decided, but realistically, at any company big enough to be using recruiters at all, the salaries etc. are preset and generally at most the recruiters and managers have a quick chat to confirm where in the salary band someone falls. They also know the hiring manager's timeline and so are often qualified to make pretty accurate timeline estimates.

Internal recruiters also generally have far more aggressive metrics surrounding time to place, time from decision to offer, etc. - external recruiters are also very aggressive about these things but I've found that 'deciders' at the company level tend to drag their feet with external recruiters, because they're "not on the same team" and external recruiters can't just walk by your desk and go "Hey, so did you want to hire Johnson?"

Tojai
Aug 31, 2008

No, You're Wrong
My internal recruiter made me a job offer. I do agree about the scatterbrained characterization though. My recruiter left me hanging for over a week because she claims she did not notice that my background check cleared (to be fair, it did take quite a while due to trouble verifying international employment). She called me yesterday and made me an offer, and said she would be emailing the documents to me. I asked her to send the email while I had her on the phone, and she declined. Never received any correspondence from her, so I'll have to try again on Monday.

Content:
I applied for a job training employees and was told I am one of the top candidates, and they want us to come in for a final interview that will consist of a 15 minute presentation and a candidate group interview. The presentation is not an issue for me but I have no idea what to expect from the group interview. I'm assuming that means they will interview all of us at the same time, do we just take turns answering the questions?

Tojai fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Aug 3, 2013

in_cahoots
Sep 12, 2011
I got the offer! The recruiter is the one who called me and will email the terms. It turns out somebody was out sick so it just took them an extra day to regroup.

Hypation
Jul 11, 2013

The White Witch never knew what hit her.

in_cahoots posted:

I got the offer! The recruiter is the one who called me and will email the terms. It turns out somebody was out sick so it just took them an extra day to regroup.

Congrats!!! :rock:

Hope it all goes well and it is fun.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

in_cahoots posted:

I got the offer! The recruiter is the one who called me and will email the terms. It turns out somebody was out sick so it just took them an extra day to regroup.

Great! Now negotiate your salary. :)

Mondlicht
Oct 13, 2011

if history could set you free
I've been keeping myself up at night lately trying to think of ways to make my employment gap easier to swallow for the people that interview me. I am pretty sure it's what cost me my last interview, since even they admitted they were desperate to fill the position.

Short story is that I quit my 3 year job where I was a star employee because it was a miserable place to work, and found a job at a new opening restaurant much closer to home. I was told the pay would be the same, because they had other restaurants that they opened and they are some of the most well liked in the city. They opened and business was not even remotely busy enough, and my hours were cut from full time down to 10 hours a week. They tried to put me in a hostess position, which I had never done before, on the really busy brunch shift. I couldn't keep up, and my managers were nice to me and seemed understanding, but when I came home they called and fired me. They told me it was performance related, but I know that in reality they just didn't have the room to keep me. The other two baristas (my position) were hired from their other restaurants, so it didn't surprise me that they preferred to keep them over me, who had no history with them. I got another job a month after this, that I had to walk out of because of the owner yelling in my face/taking money from me/not paying me overtime. Neither of these jobs are on my resume, and I pretend that the second job didn't exist.

When places I apply to ask me why I left my steady job, I tell them that I left for a new opportunity at a restaurant that did not work out. They didn't get the business they were expecting and they over hired. I don't want to tell them the name of the restaurant, because they a) lied to all my coworkers and told them I quit, so I don't really trust them to be contacted and not tell people that I'm garbage, and b) they didn't pay me for my last 2 days of work. So far I've been honest that I've been fired, but I just tell them it was due to over hiring, which is the actual truth. The last interview I had, they really tried to get the name of the restaurant out of me. I tell them that I'm not trying to speak poorly of anyone, and I'd rather focus on my experience at the previous job I had for 3 years where all my relevant experience comes from.

Is there something I should be doing differently? I've been told to lie and say I was "traveling" (not going to do that), lie and say that I quit, etc. I'm really mad at myself for taking a chance on a new restaurant, but I really wanted better for myself, and it bit me in the rear end. I've never been fired before and now I feel like it's this dark cloud over my otherwise fine resume and references, and now I'm 6 months unemployed and I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm feeling kind of desperate, and am starting to wonder if I should just grovel to the employer that fired me and say that I really need them to be a reference to me. Even though they wouldn't give me a separation letter so I could get food stamps. :(

Mondlicht fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Aug 4, 2013

Xandu
Feb 19, 2006


It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
How long is this employment gap?

Mondlicht posted:


which I had never done before, on the really busy brunch shift. I couldn't keep up...I know that in reality they just didn't have the room to keep me.

...

edit:

quote:

When places I apply to ask me why I left my steady job, I tell them that I left for a new opportunity at a restaurant that did not work out. They didn't get the business they were expecting and they over hired...So far I've been honest that I've been fired, but I just tell them it was due to over hiring, which is the actual truth. The last interview I had, they really tried to get the name of the restaurant out of me. I tell them that I'm not trying to speak poorly of anyone, and I'd rather focus on my experience at the previous job I had for 3 years where all my relevant experience comes from.

If you're going to leave jobs off your resume, that's fine, but don't mention it during the interview. If you're going to say you were let go because they over hired, then the interviewer probably thinks it's a little weird that you won't mention the restaurant's name and that you don't want to "speak poorly of anyone." Maybe just keep it simple, say you took a job, it didn't work out, but you have lots of great experience and here's why you'd be a good employee. Or put it on your resume, depending on how long you were there for, it might not be as much of a problem as you think.

Xandu fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 4, 2013

Hypation
Jul 11, 2013

The White Witch never knew what hit her.

Mondlicht posted:

I've been keeping myself up at night lately trying to think of ways to make my employment gap easier to swallow for the people that interview me. I am pretty sure it's what cost me my last interview, since even they admitted they were desperate to fill the position.

Short story is that I quit my 3 year job where I was a star employee because it was a miserable place to work, and found a job at a new opening restaurant much closer to home. I was told the pay would be the same, because they had other restaurants that they opened and they are some of the most well liked in the city. They opened and business was not even remotely busy enough, and my hours were cut from full time down to 10 hours a week. They tried to put me in a hostess position, which I had never done before, on the really busy brunch shift. I couldn't keep up, and my managers were nice to me and seemed understanding, but when I came home they called and fired me. They told me it was performance related, but I know that in reality they just didn't have the room to keep me. The other two baristas (my position) were hired from their other restaurants, so it didn't surprise me that they preferred to keep them over me, who had no history with them. I got another job a month after this, that I had to walk out of because of the owner yelling in my face/taking money from me/not paying me overtime. Neither of these jobs are on my resume, and I pretend that the second job didn't exist.


I think you have played it 80% correct....

I'd definitely put the job you moved to on your CV. Although I would not name it.

In two minds about the second - potentially that one too.

The first change is very well explainable by you... its black and white. The key is to get the interviewer to realise why you were no longer working there without explicitly saying it.
Focus on what attracted you to the move and then make comments about the number of staff and customers and the effect on your hours.

We would have [20+] tables with [5] wait staff. The busy period was between x and y. Then we'd have z many covers. For the rest of the time we'd do A covers. As a result my hours were cut back. I was happy to [do the hostess part] but even after a 75% 80%? cut in hours, I wasn't earning enough to break even myself and I could tell that the restaurant must have been losing money. I am nevertheless appreciative of the opportunity because I had the experience of being at the opening of a new restaurant, and it also gave me a heightened awareness of the financial elements of running a restaurant as well as a chance to work in other areas.

The second new job is a bit more iffy. That's because it amounts to a dispute with management over some issue. I don't know off the top of my head what to do on that one. I'm inclined to add it too the CV but again don't name the restaurant.

Hypation fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Aug 4, 2013

Mondlicht
Oct 13, 2011

if history could set you free

Xandu posted:

How long is this employment gap?


...

edit:


If you're going to leave jobs off your resume, that's fine, but don't mention it during the interview. If you're going to say you were let go because they over hired, then the interviewer probably thinks it's a little weird that you won't mention the restaurant's name and that you don't want to "speak poorly of anyone." Maybe just keep it simple, say you took a job, it didn't work out, but you have lots of great experience and here's why you'd be a good employee. Or put it on your resume, depending on how long you were there for, it might not be as much of a problem as you think.

I've currently been unemployed for 6 months.

I'll admit that my performance as a hostess wasn't great, as it was something I'd never done before. That wasn't what I was hired to do, though, and the job I was hired to do I was good at. I've been doing it for 6 years, I don't have any doubts about my ability to make coffee. There just wasn't any coffee business, one of us had to go and I was the only one they had no history with. Maybe if I blew them away as a hostess I'd still be there, but I didn't have the experience to make that happen. I flat out told them I had never done it before, they knew. I feel like me not being able to handle it as a hostess gave them the performance excuse they really wanted. I wasn't the only employee culled.

I've never been in this position before, so thanks for the advice. I honestly don't know how to handle it. I've had interviews where I've been vague in the way that you suggest, and it's gone fine. They don't spend any time on it and seem understanding, but this last interview kind of threw me for how much information they wanted from me.

Hypation posted:

I think you have played it 80% correct....

I'd definitely put the job you moved to on your CV. Although I would not name it.

In two minds about the second - potentially that one too.

The first change is very well explainable by you... its black and white. The key is to get the interviewer to realise why you were no longer working there without explicitly saying it.
Focus on what attracted you to the move and then make comments about the number of staff and customers and the effect on your hours.

We would have [20+] tables with [5] wait staff. The busy period was between x and y. Then we'd have z many covers. For the rest of the time we'd do A covers. As a result my hours were cut back. I was happy to [do the hostess part] but even after a 75% 80%? cut in hours, I wasn't earning enough to break even myself and I could tell that the restaurant must have been losing money. I am nevertheless appreciative of the opportunity because I had the experience of being at the opening of a new restaurant, and it also gave me a heightened awareness of the financial elements of running a restaurant as well as a chance to work in other areas.

The second new job is a bit more iffy. That's because it amounts to a dispute with management over some issue. I don't know off the top of my head what to do on that one. I'm inclined to add it too the CV but again don't name the restaurant.

Thanks for this advice, as well. I really intend to leave the second job off of my resume and never mention it, it was a mess and they will be eventually shut down for illegal business practices, hopefully. It's a family owned business and they have no idea what they're doing.

I think there are ways to handle it with it on my resume, it might make it easier for me. I don't really get how I'd put it on there without naming it, I think it would look really strange, but maybe people do that? It's hard to tell. Like I said, interviews vary wildly on how they react to the information I give them about it. Some don't care, some really really want to know, etc. I don't plan on bad mouthing my old employer to anyone regardless, so if I can spin it in a way that makes it sound like I'm super understanding/not bitter then maybe the fact that I was fired won't take me out of the game completely.

Mondlicht fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 4, 2013

Captain Trips
May 23, 2013
The sudden reminder that I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about
I've got a year-long gap in employment, where basically all I did was sit around my mom's house and not look for another job. I did little odd-jobs and fixed a few computers for friends, so I list that time as "self-employed".

Hypation
Jul 11, 2013

The White Witch never knew what hit her.

Mondlicht posted:


I don't really get how I'd put it on there without naming it, I think it would look really strange, but maybe people do that? It's hard to tell.

I work on various confidential projects, so I don't name the client or actual project - I just describe it in generic terms. For a restaurant that could be a bit different.

KernelSlanders
May 27, 2013

Rogue operating systems on occasion spread lies and rumors about me.
I have a question about case interviews. Everything I've read about them and everyone I've spoken to has made a big point about how, after the interviewer has laid out the problem and you've asked some clarifying questions, you're supposed to take a minute to "organize your thoughts" or something like that. My question is, what are you supposed to be doing during this time? If you're working through a framework (say a P&L framework) it only takes a second to write down Profit = Revenue - Costs = (Quantity x Price) - (FixedCosts + Quantity x MarginalCosts). Even then, wouldn't it be more client friendly to draw out your little tree explaining your thought process as you go? I really don't see what you can be doing during this minute of silence, but I keep hearing that you won't do a good job on the question unless you do that first. This kind of makes me think I'm doing something wrong.

Xandu
Feb 19, 2006


It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
If you don't feel like you need a moment to collect your thoughts, then don't. But most people find it helpful to take 30-60 seconds to look at all the information they have, figure out what their hypothesis is, and how they want to structure their case. It doesn't have to be a full minute if you don't need it, but the point of the advice is that you shouldn't feel like you immediately have to answer the question and spout off whatever's on the top of your head.

Xandu fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Aug 5, 2013

Hypation
Jul 11, 2013

The White Witch never knew what hit her.

KernelSlanders posted:

I have a question about case interviews. Everything I've read about them and everyone I've spoken to has made a big point about how, after the interviewer has laid out the problem and you've asked some clarifying questions, you're supposed to take a minute to "organize your thoughts" or something like that. My question is, what are you supposed to be doing during this time? If you're working through a framework (say a P&L framework) it only takes a second to write down Profit = Revenue - Costs = (Quantity x Price) - (FixedCosts + Quantity x MarginalCosts). Even then, wouldn't it be more client friendly to draw out your little tree explaining your thought process as you go? I really don't see what you can be doing during this minute of silence, but I keep hearing that you won't do a good job on the question unless you do that first. This kind of makes me think I'm doing something wrong.

I've done case interviews for McKinsey, BCG and Bain. I moved into M&A investment banking and now we do a M&A specific case interview - I've given that interview maybe 100+ times over the last 5 years.

The organising your thoughts part is about identifying the right framework for thinking through the problem. ie you identify the type of problem and the way in which you need to think to solve it.

At this point it might be a good time to write down the problem: The Richard Feynman approach to problem solving is 1. Write down problem; 2. Think very hard; 3. Write down answer. Richard is gently caress-off smart and likes to solve problems professors have got stuck on for decades over a lunch.

However writing down the problem helps you map the data you have been given to the framework used to solve the problem, work out what is extraneous, what might be missing in order for the pieces you have to be useful, and what is the most critical pieces of information. You need to be matching the data to the framework.

You can do a good job without thinking it through first so long as you get the right framework; as Xandu says you don't need to stop and pause.
You can also think out loud as you devise the framework too.

Nione
Jun 3, 2006

Welcome to Trophy Island
Rub my tummy
Ok, I have a question about following up on the interview process.

Five weeks ago I had a phone interview for a job that I'm very interested in. It went very well and they told me they'd like me to come in for an interview in person. They had some scheduling issues, so it was three weeks before we were able to arrange that. I went in, did the interview, and I felt it also went very well. That was two weeks ago today. Last week, the HR person contacted me and wanted to let me know that they had not forgotten about me and would like me to come in and meet some more people. Basically a third interview. But, she didn't have everyone's schedules and was not prepared to arrange a time, so she said she'd contact me again.

After each interview I sent a thank you email to the people I spoke with. It's been almost a week now since the HR person called me about the third interview and I haven't heard anything yet.

My good friend and former coworker works for this company and has recommended me to them. I spoke with him and he said that they're just pretty slow about hiring, it was 3 weeks between his interview and when they hired him and he had actually worked at this company previously as an intern so they all already knew him.

I don't want to come across as pushy. I am currently employed so it is not urgent that I find a job immediately and they're aware of this. I feel they've been good about keeping me updated, a week between calls is not ridiculous and really common for this industry. For those of you that hire people, would a simple "thanks for wanting me to come in again, here are times I'm available if you'd still like to try and set that up" seem like I'm pushing? Should I just be patient and wait for her to contact me? I want to seem proactive and I would like to reinforce the idea that I am really super interested in this job, but I do not want to be annoying.

ONEMANWOLFPACK
Apr 27, 2010
It's not pushing it. The HR person gets 100's of emails a day.

neogeo0823
Jul 4, 2007

NO THAT'S NOT ME!!

Crew Expendable posted:

Yeah you can phrase this as "Sold X [pounds/units/dollars worth/gallons] of [product] per [day/week/month/year]." Like in the OP.


No one's going to know if you were an average worker:shobon:.

Would you mind sharing what kind of fields are you interested in? If you are interested in anything on the creative side you can try to play up your patio and interior design skills while; interested in a job that requires lots of social skills then emphasize your skills as a salesman; interested in management then emphasize how you coordinated patio construction or something. Presumably, at least parts of your job required you to complete tasks with more than one step or took longer than one day. Those parts should be complicated enough for your to write about in your resume.

I think the big problem is that I never really bothered to mentally track any of the numbers in what I did. I didn't personally cash people out or anything, so it's hard to say that I sold, on average, $XXX per transaction, or whatever metric. It also didn't help that management didn't share numbers with the employees beyond either saying we're doing well, or we suck, work more.

The field(s) I'm looking to get into are the more hands-on parts of tech support, IT, and system building. So, pretty much things like this, this, or this. Basically, I want to be building or fabricating something instead of sitting at a desk all day. I've got a real knack for computers, and enjoy fixing and building them, and I enjoy meeting new people and being in new environments.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

ONEMANWOLFPACK posted:

It's not pushing it. The HR person gets 100's of emails a day.

Also scheduling is a mess for everyone at this time of year, with vacations and everything. Keep pushing.

Nione
Jun 3, 2006

Welcome to Trophy Island
Rub my tummy

ONEMANWOLFPACK posted:

It's not pushing it. The HR person gets 100's of emails a day.

FrozenVent posted:

Also scheduling is a mess for everyone at this time of year, with vacations and everything. Keep pushing.

Thanks. I just sent her an email letting her know I'd be available any time in the next 3 weeks except for Fridays. I'm hoping that makes things easier for her to schedule.

I just want a new job, damnit! I'm tired of interviewing!

Omits-Bagels
Feb 13, 2001
We've just moved to a new city and my wife is having a hell of a time trying to find a job. At this point she has been unemployed for about 8 months.

Backstory: She was doing her MA in French and we moved to France for 1.5 years. She had an internship there and it lead to a short-term contract that ended at the end of Dec. 2012. Since it was France, she got something like 6 weeks of vacation saved up that her employer just paid out. Our visas didn't end until the end of Feb. 2013 so we enjoyed about 6 weeks of vacation in Paris.

At the same time I was applying to grad school back in the US. I applied to a few places across the country and didn't find out what school I was going to attend until this May. Since the schools were so spread out she didn't pursue looking for jobs while we were in that "in-between stage."

Since May she has been looking/applying for jobs but has only gotten one interview. I think her resume is pretty good but maybe we are just totally missing something. Or maybe the 8 month unemployment is scaring people away. Or maybe her skill set just isn't in need? Any help would be amazing.

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Xandu
Feb 19, 2006


It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
What kind of jobs is she looking at and what does she want to do? Also where do you live? There might not be demand for her skills in your area.

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