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chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

ManoliIsFat posted:

It's such standard advice, but it really is soooo helpful. You can feel very familiar with these technologies, but until you actually knockout a CMS or a forum or something, you'll never see how it all fits together until you do, or "oh, I guess I was kinda lacking in my SQL". Even if it's something a million people have done, it's so worth it to do it yourself.

This is incredibly true. I went from barely understanding CSS (my university's web design class was basically dreamweaver, slices, and tables in 2009) to being somewhat versed in it, and learning some PHP and jQuery as well by deciding to jump in the deep and and make my own responsive Wordpress theme. Granted, I had to lean heavily on Bootstrap as I got started but just making something is the absolute best way to learn.

That and lurking these threads. Even if I don't understand half of what you guys are talking about.

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chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

pipebomb posted:

A new gig I have uses a print designer to do their mockups,then the devs replicate it based on a PSD. This results in poo poo. I am trying to make the guy a list of what to do/not to do. Help?

* Use only websafe fonts - http://www.w3schools.com/cssref/css_websafe_fonts.asp
* or Google fonts - http://www.google.com/fonts
* Each font needs a familial fallback - sans/serif, monospace, etc. - no single font choices

* H1/H2/H3/P need to be distinctive, proportionate and scalable
* Blockquotes - stylized, indented
* Avoid beveling elements
* Lean toward contrast as opposed to borders
* Avoid textured elements
* Avoid images where color, shading, translucency can be used
* Avoid drop-shadow on text, lean toward contrast, weight
* Consistent padding between elements - makes responsive design more achievable

As a designer whose training was all in print, this is great advice. I'm a little confused as to this last bullet point though - how does it help make a design responsive? My only experience with doing responsive design has been me doing my personal site in Twitter Bootstrap and making a million mistakes along the way, so I think I might be missing some theory behind this practice.

kedo posted:

Print designers who simply cannot understand that a different medium requires a different process are an endless source of amusement for me. I had a pretty hilarious conversation with the print designers in my studio awhile back about why I needed at least six levels of headlines for a site even if I wasn't immediately using them on mockups. A lot of their confusion boils down to having variables as part of a design. Publication designers actually tend to grock web design a lot better in my experience; they're used to getting copy at the last minute and having to somehow fit everything into an existing grid system, so dealing with an unknown isn't new to them.

But yeah, that dude is hosed if he can't figure things out.

This is probably basic-level stuff for everyone else here, but the way I wrapped my head around variability in web type size is to just think of things in terms of the size of the body copy. Copy is 1 em, and then h1 is 2em or whatever suits your needs and so on and so forth. It's not too different from establishing a baseline grid on a print layout and then building off that. I'm not sure how correct this is from a web perspective but I remember reading articles about people doing responsive typography by first declaring a body font size and then basing everything else off multiples of that.

chami fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Dec 17, 2013

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

kedo posted:

It just makes things a lot easier and more intuitive. If every top level element on the page (say your content column, sidebar, header and footer) has 40px of padding at browser dimensions, it's easy to figure dimensions at smaller sizes and it's also just easier to code because you can probably get away with declaring the new widths once. For example you could easily swap them out for 30px when you hit a tablet breakpoint, and then maybe 20px at a mobile breakpoint. If every single element on the page has custom padding you're going to have to do a lot of math and make a lot of new declarations, and at the end of the day you're probably going to gently caress something up.

Think of it like if you had a grid system you used across various print mediums for a brand, but every column of the grid was a different width. Repurposing the grid on a business card vs. letterhead vs. annual report would be a huge pain in the rear end. If all the columns were of equal width and you had a set number you used consistently, it'd be way more useful and pleasurable to work with.

Thanks, "have a consistent grid system and don't leave content all over the page" is easier to understand than "consistent padding between elements".

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
Is the OP still being updated? I was wondering if Emmet could be added to it. To my great shame I've only started using this now and it's made writing code so much quicker and easier.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
So I know this might be verboten here, but has anyone else been playing around with Macaw? I heard of it via the Big Web Show and found it pretty handy for wireframing and just general dicking around with websites. There seem to be a lot of other responsive design tools out now like Pinegrow and Froont. Is anyone using these in their professional workflow? Are they shaping up to be Dreamweaver all over again or do you guys think it'll actually be handy in getting good sites done?

chami fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jun 5, 2014

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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revmoo posted:

People still use Dreamweaver?

I had to open it up two months ago to quickly deal with an old newsletter email I had to get content into.

Today I just said "gently caress it" and used Sublime snippets to expedite remaking the entire thing in Zurb Ink.

(screw HTML emails) :bang:

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

The Dave posted:

I couldn't disagree more. When done right it makes the whole experience better.

It can be used incredibly well when it supports and enhances the content of the article.

edit: LOL I never noticed they put a "We're hiring developers!" ad in Dev Tool's console if you're viewing the site with it.

chami fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jan 11, 2015

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
IE10 is supposed to raise the selector limit from the 4095 IE9 and below were limited to, right? I have one specific style that doesn't show up at all unless I force the site to load the blesscss'd css file for IE9 and below.

Of course, the real issue is that there are way too many selectors but I'm just curious about this.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

Leshy posted:

I'm reminded of a question of my own.

Recently, I redesigned my personal website and took the step of building the CSS using SASS, which is indeed pretty awesome. Of course I did fall into the beginner trap of nesting styles too much, thinking more about organizing my SASS file neatly than the CSS output, which became needlessly verbose. I was also still using ids as styling hooks rather than classes, which I learned is somewhat frowned upon these days (or at the very least advocated against by a sizeable group).

So after some reading up, I decided to rebuild my SASS file and see whether I could reduce the resulting CSS file size. Using class selectors instead of ids did allow me to remove some code to deal with specificity issues and coupled with better nesting the file size came down nicely. I then wondered whether I could leverage SASS' @extend for further efficiency. Unfortunately, I didn't have (m)any elements which were similar enough to really make good use of them.

I did realise that I had quite a lot of font and color declarations sprinkled throughout my stylesheet and figured that making placeholders for those and extending these individual declarations might be more efficient. So I gave it a go, ending up with a SASS file that looks roughly like this:

code:

$serif:               'Georgia', 'Times New Roman', serif;
$sans-serif:          'Helvetica', 'Arial', sans-serif;
$color-default:       #111;
$color-page:          #eee;
$color-accent:        rgb(0,150,250);

[...]

%serif-regular        {font: 400 1rem/1.5rem $serif;}
%serif-large          {font: 400 1.25rem/1.5rem $serif;}
%sans-serif           {font-family: $sans-serif;}
%bold		      {font-weight: 600;}
%italic		      {font-style: italic;}

%bgcolor-default      {background-color: $color-default;}
%bgcolor-page         {background-color: $color-page;}
%bgcolor-accent       {background-color: $color-accent;}

%color-page           {color: $color-page;}
%color-accent         {color: $color-accent;}

[...]

nav {
  a {
    @extend %serif-regular;
    @extend %color-page;
    display: block;
    padding: 10px 20px;
    &:hover {
      @extend %color-accent;
    }
  }
  .active a {
    @extend %bgcolor-default;
    @extend %italic;
    @extend %bold;
    padding-left: 13px;
    border-left: 7px solid $color-page;
  }
}

h2 {
  @extend %serif-regular;
  @extend %sans-serif;
  @extend %bold;
  @extend %color-accent;
}

At first sight, this seemed like a terrible misuse of the extend functionality, but it does seem to work rather well. As long as the selectors are shorter than the declaration and the declaration is used several times throughout the stylesheet, you end up with a smaller CSS file. With the intended use of @extend, you still have to check the properties of a different element to see what styles are being extended, but in this way you still see what's happening as easily as with regular CSS.

In this example, you can tell at a glance that the h2 has the font settings applied for the regular serif font, which is changed to the sans-serif font, has bold applied and the accent color applied. With h2 being a very short selector, adding it to four declarations is more efficient than the other way around. It also makes it easy to apply multiple styles to an element without having to litter the HTML with classes as OOCSS does (which I'm not a big fan of) and it doesn't violate the DRY principle.

Admittedly, it does lead to a horrible CSS output where the styles for the h2 are spread across four different declaration statements, but most CSS these days tends to be viewed through a document inspector and I figure that ease-of-use is more important for the actual SASS file than for the minified output anyway.

Having said all of this, I still feel like I'm overlooking the reason why the above way of doing this is a terrible idea. I've Googled, but don't really come across any articles where this sort of use is discussed. All @extend examples seem to be about extending a full set of declarations for a standard item and then adding a few individual rules to it.

So yeah, to sum up: why is this a terrible idea and shouldn't I be doing this, or alternatively, why is this a pretty good idea and aren't people (discussing) doing this?

Here's a good set of guidelines to look at.

For one, extend doesn't work in media queries at all. They're also a pain in the butt to debug even with document inspectors, and it creates weird relationships between otherwise disparate elements that might confuse anyone who has to maintain/work on the same project. Personally I would just use mixins with default arguments; I can use those in media queries as far as I recall.

chami fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 14, 2015

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
I googled your site and it displayed the font-awesome icons without any problem. Not sure what's going on with it.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

Grump posted:

I'm just starting to learn how to use flexboxes and media queries and such, but I'm having problems with things overlapping in Chrome when I use a flexbox. Here's a screenshot:



and here's my code (it looks fine on codepen)

http://codepen.io/mmckenna/pen/JoewOP

I need some help. Is there some way where I can use a flexbox in a navbar on a site, while having the body not be overlapped successfully?

Use flexbox for the element containing both the navbar and the body/container. Something like this would work.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
Super-newbie AngularJS question here:

I'm working with some vendor code that runs the following following whenever the window is resized - this is supposed to resize the widget that they provide to our site whenever the viewport changes:
code:
 if (document.styleSheets[1].cssRules)
   $scope.rules = document.styleSheets[1].cssRules;
 else if (document.styleSheets[1].rules)
   $scope.rules = document.styleSheets[1].rules;
 $scope.rules[0].style.width = z + 'px';
From poking around I get that they're trying to add a "width: z px;" rule to elements with the ng-cloak attribute to resize the div containing the widget, but for a while document.styleSheets[1] was returning our app.css and setting the body and html tags to the width it was calculating.:supaburn:

1. Why would you need to style ng-cloak instead of the actual class of the div containing the widget (which they defined)? Is there some performance reason or will the width not update unless you apply it to ng-cloak?
2. Why assume the css stylesheet that Angular seems to be inserting with the ng-cloak rules is document.styleSheets[1]?

I'm not as familiar with Angular as our vendors probably are so I'm just trying to figure out why they were doing it the way they were.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

Newf posted:

More of a tooling question than directly web dev. Does Emmet/zenCoding/VS WebEssentials let you declare more than one class on an element with their auto-expanding shorthand? I want, for example, to make a bootstrap button with something like div.(btn btn-primary)[tab] but I can't find the right syntax and I've not had immediate success googling.

Use div.btn.btn-primary.otherclass.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

fuf posted:

haha so that's what flexbox means. That's awesome, thanks.

Universal support for flexbox can't come soon enough.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

Thermopyle posted:

http://tympanus.net/Development/CardExpansion/index.html

Though I think those have some issues with there being too long of a delay between clicking and getting to the content, I love/hate seeing cool poo poo like that.

I love it because it's cool and beautiful.

I hate it because I'm so untalented.

I was just staring at this at work on Friday. It's both inspiring and making me jealous as hell of their ideas.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
Ideally you would get the identity and design system down first, build components from that and then design/layout in the browser, paying close attention to how your content and components would behave and order in different screen sizes.

If you need to deliver prototypes/mockups first though I would second Illustrator. I've looked at Webflow too since I'm in a .net shop and stuck on Windows but I haven't had a chance to really give it a try.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
Time to see if a vendor software update will break their forms on our site!

Their forms are in a table styled with inline styles, nested in three other tables, in an iframe.

:smithicide:

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

RobertKerans posted:

Ach, I think I'm just sick of writing 10× the amount of markup to do the same thing: each view is different, with on average 10-15 mixed, often nested fields that need to be fully responsive, and what took me half an hour with very minimal markup is now taking me well into the night with various wrappers and a mix of floats, media queries, table display and inline block. I think I'm just a bit flabbergasted that it took me this much effort to do stuff a year ago. Ugh, and the vertical positioning, always the sodding vertical positioning

The sooner all this goes away for Flexbox and Grid, the better.

Also, just use Susy next time or something.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

Ahernia posted:

We have lots of websites under a modestly sized Visual Studio solution due to shared code. One of our team is responsible for fairly frequent SASS stylesheet updates to change backgrounds and other minor things across the sites. I'm thinking of moving the SASS assets out of the Visual Studio solution and creating a completely separate project (tooling, build and deployment chain etc) just for the SASS/CSS, which would deploy onto our CDN. Has anyone got any experience of a workflow like that? Am I just creating more work for little gain? My thought is that the dev can just churn through the style updates without having to interact with the projects as a whole, and could experiment with tooling and deployment processes without having to be a good neighbour to the other projects.

It also may encourage slightly more decoupled thinking between the semantic structure of the page versus the aesthetic layout of the page (probably wishful thinking)!

I think VS2015 has support for task runners now, so if you have those set up to deploy to a CDN and do your experimentation there's no need to leave the solution. I run VS2013 so I don't get built-in task runners; I just have a command prompt open to run gulp tasks if I need to. An added bonus to this is that I can easily work with TFS and our task management this way.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

v1nce posted:

That's fair, we all started somewhere, and you're reminding me a lot of where I started from.

If you're looking for help more relevant to PHP-land, you can go over to the PHP thread and we can try to push you in the right direction. We're not particularly quick to reply, but we can help explain what's doing what and why.

I'm guessing one of your big problems is you don't know what tools are available in the toolbox yet, so getting from A to B requires quite a bit of discovery, and coupled with straight-up learning PHP syntax and quirks it's going to be rough going.
If you want to fix some of that anxiety and paralysis, you can just straight up write pseudo code as TODO statements, and then fill-in-the-blanks from easiest to hardest. I use this quite a lot when I can't immediately think my way through a problem.

For instance, say I asked you to build me a function which exchanged the first letter of a word for a fancy image of that letter, like old-timey novels.
All you know from this is you'll be inputting a word and outputting HTML. So that gives you your function signature, like so:
code:

/**
 * Exchange the first letter of the given word with an image of that letter
 * @param string $word
 * @return string  Html output with fancy capitalisation
 */
function fancyCapitalise($word)
{
    // TODO: figure this out
    return $word;
}
With that signature I can now plug the function into a bunch of places, but obviously it aint going to do poo poo. Let's go ahead and handle that first TODO and expand on the action:
code:

// TODO: Strip the first letter off the word
$letter = 'A';

// TODO: Create the HTML for the image for that letter
$html = '<img>';

return $html.$word;
So this is an improvement, kinda. We've outlined all the actions this function needs to take, and we're returning something reminiscent of the desired output, but we're still not getting bogged down in code details.

This also gives us the opportunity to think about any special cases we've missed. Perhaps you have a sudden realisation that you don't want it to do this if the word starts with a non-ascii alphabet character, so you might also put a bail-out statement near the start:
code:

// TODO: Strip the first letter off the word
$letter = 'A';

// TODO: Determine if letter is non-ASCII alpha.
if (false) {
	// Return word without modification when incompatible.
	return $word;
}

// ...
Notice we only put if (false) { rather than any actual logic. We don't currently know how to check if the character is a-z or not, but rather than get hung up on the fine details we'll just TODO it and have that if clause be false, so it never gets executed.

The point is, you can design the application logic without knowing what you're doing. Dumping end-to-end pseudo code that have kinda-sorta working interfaces means you at least know what you want the system to do, and you've got it all commented out in front of you. How you make it actually connect the dots and execute those tasks something you can waste your time researching, ask your professor, or ask us about.

This is great advice and I will start doing this for my own code. Thanks!

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

caberham posted:

Hi guys, I'm planning on making a basic portfolio site for a small business. If I want to dabble with Jekyll, should I just use netlify? It's a business to business type of company so there won't be too many hits and inquiries. The only tricky thing I'm reading about is form and email handling, but Netlify on the surface seems to handle forms as well. Whereas if I host on S3, I need to incorporate another email service like Mandrill?

Oh and some customers would be in China so what problems will I have dealing with the stupid FireWall?

Make sure whatever CDN or web font services you are using are either allowed by the firewall or that you specify fallbacks. Google Web Fonts in particular.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Skandranon posted:

If you are doing web development, VSCode is really good. Especially if you are using TypeScript, but even if not. It is built on Electron, like Atom, but has some custom Intellisense stuff from Microsoft built in. It's free, and is actively under development, so new features are constantly coming out. It also has built in integration for Git and Grunt/Gulp.

https://code.visualstudio.com/

This or Atom both work wonderfully. I'm sticking with Atom right now (after moving from Sublime) because I'm waiting for all the packages I like to get ported over to VSCode, but VSCode's performance is amazing.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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mintskoal posted:

Hopefully a simple question. How do you control padding on wrapped text within a div?

Right now I have something like

code:

     This is a div that wraps with 10px of
left padding

I'd like it to render as

code:
    This is a div that wraps with 10px of
    left padding

What's your HTML looking like that your text is behaving like that? Just adding padding to the container div should have it flush left like this.

e;fb

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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mintskoal posted:

Ideally like this. I'm more of a backend dev so apologies if this I'm not making a ton of sense.



Seems like you can just give the <i> element a float: left to have it behave like a floated image like so.


VV flex is best, I am both anticipating and dreading updating my organization's sites to use it. Kind of excited to be messing around with grid too, but I haven't experimented with it like I have with flex.

chami fucked around with this message at 18:42 on May 13, 2016

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

ModeSix posted:


Keeping perspective, I'm only a couple of hours into exploring it, so I may find things I absolutely hate about it.

WebForms. :v:

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
SVG paths and masking might help.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
If you don't want to write your own framework, going into bootstrap.scss and commenting out all the components you don't need is a good idea.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

Lumpy posted:

Anyone used Affinity Designer? (https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/ui-design-software/) I love me some Sketch, but there's some things I don't like about it, and this seems pretty cool.

Probably going to check it out, since Sketch is mac only and Adobe is taking forever to port XD to Windows. :sigh: I've been looking for a tool to do quick prototypes with a little more visual fidelity than prototyping in HTML.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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huhu posted:

I just finished a single page django website portfolio with the following stats:

Page size 7.9 MB
Requests 83
Load time 2.40 s


First, are these decent speeds? I tried keeping all images under 200kb. The majority of the requests are for images that I was thinking I could use a jQuery plugin to not load them until details for a specific project and its images are opened. I was also going to move all the requests for jQuery plugins to CDNs. The remaining requests are for Google fonts, style sheets, and some other images that appear always on the page.

Edit: The only thing pingdom.com says I failed on is "Leverage browser caching". I imagine a person is only going to visit my website once so I don't think that'd be useful?

CDNs for scripts and lazy loading are all well and good, but a 7.8mb page and 83 requests are still quite a lot. Are you bundling your scripts?

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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kedo posted:

How many of you design/develop on Windows?

I've been working on a Macbook Pro for pretty much my entire career and am in need of a new computer, but I'm not willing to shell out several thousand dollars for a computer that maxes out at 16 GB of RAM. I use that much now, even when I'm careful about quitting programs I'm not using. I could go the desktop route but I work half the time in an office, half the time from home. I don't want to have to switch machines every other day.

I'm wary of switching to Windows mainly because my workflow is extremely polished and there are several tools I use that are Mac only. I'm sure there are Windows equivalents out there, but the idea of starting basically from scratch is incredibly unappealing to me.

Anyone have thoughts or opinions? I have no idea what to do here.

What tools are you talking about, aside from Sketch? I work on Win10 since we're a .NET shop. Web forms. :smith:

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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There's a big Black Friday sale on uDemy courses up until the 25th; pretty sweet deal if you're looking to brush up on some topics.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
I still have to support (read: make sure content is readable) in IE9 so Browserstack is useful. You can open the nested browser's own dev tools so that helps at least though running a VM with the browsers in question is still best.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
Responsive images questions : is upscaling images intended behavior for srcset if the size specified in the sizes attribute is larger than the image's native size? That seems unwise. I'm really hoping that's not the case and that I'm just missing something incredibly basic.

The reason I'm asking is because we're trying to implement an automated responsive image solution with srcset with a RIAS server-side plugin we have installed. We don't have the time to curate all the images the staff upload through our CMS, and they do love their 5000px wide portraits. :cripes:

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

Lumpy posted:

If I could pry myself from the icy clutches of VIM, I'd pick VS Code.

VS Code has a pretty good VIM extension that's worth trying out. Granted, I only used it for the keyboard commands so i might be missing scripts you find necessary.

chami fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Sep 7, 2017

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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On the bright side, you note have oAuth experience!

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
Not a Medium post, ignored

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Analytic Engine posted:

return <div className={'h2'}>My Header</div>:

You joke, but I had to deal with a Readium rollout with epubs full of exactly that, along with div.p, etc. :smithicide:

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe

Data Graham posted:

Can't we go back to when a guest book and a hit counter were the extent of web programming

Frames were the poo poo, none of this overly complicated grid BS for your sidebars :okboomer:

chami
Mar 28, 2011

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D34THROW posted:

Im using Flask in Python, and I have a Python package called tabulate that can generate pretty tables from data. Is it worth trying to spin my own CSS grid solution if tabulate can spit out HTML tables that i can make look nice?

If the data’s more easily understood in a table then leave it in a table. Better for semantics etc.

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chami
Mar 28, 2011

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Fun Shoe
If you’re dead set on using Bootstrap, any reason you’re not using any of their flex classes? Are you stuck on v.3 and below?

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