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Stoca Zola posted:The substrates that leech ammonia as far as I can tell either do it by design as plant food, and to assist the cycling of a new tank (have a read about the nitrogen cycle if you haven't already!), or - those that do it unevenly or for a longer term were a bad batch of Amazonia that were not intended to do that (Or maybe that was the Amazonia that fell to powder after only a year or so? I do remember something a few years ago about a bad manufacturing run). Anyway aquascaping favours plant health, and things that make plants healthy do not necessarily make fish, shrimps or snails healthy. If a newcomer sees a picture someone puts up of their mature established tank and the poster says "Oh, I used Amazonia", the newcomer might buy all the same products and throw it together without realising the long term biological processes that need to happen before it's safe to put livestock in with those plants. In any case it's normal for a tank with livestock in to have some level of ammonia (from the fish) and the biological filtration handles that by consuming it just as fast as it's produced. There's no reason a filter won't also handle ammonia if it is leeching from the substrate at a steady rate, providing you have sufficient filtration. Even if you don't have livestock your plants will appreciate circulation in the water so that dissolved gases and nutrients are evenly dispersed. Thanks for the info, I will make sure to post when I have the tank set up for planting 
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Sep 12, 2020 14:22
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On the same tack, has anyone done or read up on the Walstad Style of aquariums? I've never had a fish tank or anything before but I find the idea of a relatively self contained and self sufficient tank quite appealing. Second question would be, my wife seems to think fish tanks smell bad, which would make it tough for me to get going, particularly since I was hoping to set up a tank on or near my desk to help with living at work due to the pandemic. Of course they will have _some_ smell, but I imagine if one maintains their tank that it should be very minimal?
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Sep 12, 2020 14:58
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We have a 12L shrimp tank on my desk. I could drink the water if I wanted, there is no odor or even taste (I suck-start a hose for water changes... I don't always pull out in time). I do remember fish aquariums having a slight smell to them as a kid, but it wasn't a stink per say, just a slight smell of, something when you stick your face under the lid. It's not like going to a fish-market or something.
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Sep 12, 2020 15:39
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withoutclass posted:Second question would be, my wife seems to think fish tanks smell bad, which would make it tough for me to get going, particularly since I was hoping to set up a tank on or near my desk to help with living at work due to the pandemic. Of course they will have _some_ smell, but I imagine if one maintains their tank that it should be very minimal? I can't answer the first question, while I have tried "dirted" tanks that's not exactly the same as a full Walstad method tank. One of my dirted tanks was the only one I've ever had cyanobacteria in although I don't think that means anything one way or the other. I think a badly set up, overcrowded, poorly maintained fish tank can absolutely smell bad. What I'm thinking of - goldfish in a too small tank, brightly coloured clown vomit plastic gravel and plastic plants, undersized internal only filter, water changes never - just topping up after evaporation. There's nothing to consume nitrogen wastes, nothing removing dissolved organics, possibly not enough circulation so anoxic pockets can form. It could smell fishy, or boggy, and if cyanobacteria forms it has its own smell on top of that. Another common source of stink is crumbs of fish food that didn't make it into the water and instead sit on the trim or on top of the filter and go rotten. Damp fish food rots really quickly and you can get a nasty sewer smell out of that. Overfeeding means more uneaten food, more fish poop, and more nitrogen wastes produced by the fish and inexperienced fishkeepers often feed way too much food. Overfeeding probably kills more fish than anything else. To avoid the smells: choose an appropriate quantity and size of livestock for the size of the tank. Get an appropriately sized filter, with quality filter media and maintain (declog) it regularly. Use a substrate that won't trap excess food and wastes(sand) or if using gravel, regularly vacuum substrate that can trap wastes. Have real plants helping to consume nitrogen wastes, feed a small quantity of quality food, remove uneaten food. Wipe down the tank hardware and maintain basic hygiene of surfaces. Water change 25% or more every week or so (depending on how heavily stocked the tank is), this reduces nitrogen wastes and removes dissolved organics. Personally I use my nose to tell me if something is wrong with my tank - maybe I have to do bigger water changes, or more frequent, or maybe one of the fish has died and I need to find and remove it, or maybe a piece of driftwood has gone rotten and needs to be removed, etc. When everything is going well fish tanks don't have an odor. You can't even smell the moss unless you pull it out of the water and sniff it.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:06
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Yeah if your aquarium smells, there's something wrong with it. I say that as someone with a multitude of animals, snakes, cats, mice, etc. A dead mouse can be smelled when you walk in the house, same with nasty cat poo poo that isn't covered. Once all that is clean, if there's any smell, it's from the mouse bedding. And I have far more aquariums, all open lid, over half the house, compared to the mice in one room.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:12
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Awesome, thanks for all the info. I figured that a tank would only smell if there was a problem like dead fish or something else going on indicating a problem. Now mostly trying to decide if I want to go for something smaller with just plants and some shrimp or maybe scale up and try a Betta as well.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:02
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Shrimp are cool, and surprisingly full of character. We have a total of 13, 4 Blue Neo-Cardina, 7 Amanos (who are gorgeous up close), and 2 Dwarf Bamboos. They can all be identified by their little quirks.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:09
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withoutclass posted:On the same tack, has anyone done or read up on the Walstad Style of aquariums? I've never had a fish tank or anything before but I find the idea of a relatively self contained and self sufficient tank quite appealing. I have a 7 gal walstad tank for my shrimp. No heater, no filter, just a small air pump with gentle bubbles for circulation. 1.5” of sifted topsoil capped with 1.5” of flourite. I had to poke it for the first few weeks with a skewer to let off the gasses until the dwarf hairgrass got its roots established, and it also has anbuis, hornwort and frogbit. The plants grow like crazy and I have 0 ammonia, nitrates and nitrites.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:38
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ickna posted:I have a 7 gal walstad tank for my shrimp. No heater, no filter, just a small air pump with gentle bubbles for circulation. 1.5” of sifted topsoil capped with 1.5” of flourite. I had to poke it for the first few weeks with a skewer to let off the gasses until the dwarf hairgrass got its roots established, and it also has anbuis, hornwort and frogbit. The plants grow like crazy and I have 0 ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. Any reason to have the bubbles from a biological perspective? I've seen some videos where the plants themselves will bubble gas into the water.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:40
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I don’t have a true Walstad, but both of my bettas are in filterless planted 10gals. So far we’re about 3mo into this setup and no smells, no notable films of any sort, and no stressed fish 🤞. The plants are growing and the fish seem content and behaviorally vigorous. I do regular partial water changes tho, but so far I’ve been doing them every other week/every few weeks (it turns out theses take a lot of work), which is definitely not ideal, but again the tanks have looked great during that time so it was an easy piece of maintenance to skip and just do top-ups. I should probably get a testing kit just to be sure/on the safe side. Alternatively I could just toss in filters of some sort (maybe like a box filter?) but of the ones I had on hand at home, I have yet to find one that didn’t really disturb the water much more than I wanted/the fish liked, and I was hoping to avoid something that makes bubbles.
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Sep 12, 2020 23:19
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Now I want a Walstad. I have no interest in maintaining yet another filter system, so this might be a nice project. I'm always down for a place to keep more shrimp and if it fails I can move any aquatic denizens into another tank easy. What's a good fish to have in a Walstad? And don't say betta.
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Sep 12, 2020 23:48
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Krispy Wafer posted:Now I want a Walstad. I have no interest in maintaining yet another filter system, so this might be a nice project. I'm always down for a place to keep more shrimp and if it fails I can move any aquatic denizens into another tank easy. I got interested by watching this channel. This particular vid has gourami's. I think he has tetra's in another video. Most of his feature betta's.
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Sep 13, 2020 00:17
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withoutclass posted:Any reason to have the bubbles from a biological perspective? I've seen some videos where the plants themselves will bubble gas into the water. They will put oxygen in the water even without the bubbles, but overnight when the plants aren't producing the shrimp were hanging out underneath the floating plants and the snails would move up to the top of the tank too. So I added the bubbler to help with gas exchange and everyone has been happy since. I would just use a circulator pump but I couldn't find one slow and small enough for my tank.  it's about a month and a half old at this point. I am pretty happy with it. The bacopa in the front has really taken off in the last two weeks and found its way from the background to the foreground. I am going to trim it down and replant it further back on my next maintenance day. I currently have two berried female neocaridina so I am trying not to disturb them until the eggs hatch edit: withoutclass posted:I got interested by watching this channel. This particular vid has gourami's. I think he has tetra's in another video. Most of his feature betta's. this is what got me into walted tanks too ickna fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Sep 13, 2020 |
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Sep 13, 2020 02:21
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Thirding that channel getting me into Walstad tanks. Mine (5.5g and a 10g, both mostly shrimp and snails) aren't full Walstad tanks because I'm running a sponge filter in both, but plants grow like nobody's business and maintenance is generally minimal. (Maintenance is also minimal because I don't mind my tank looking like a natural ecosystem; i.e. messy.) Pick up Walstad's book if you haven't already.
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Sep 13, 2020 03:01
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With regards to bettas snarfing up the shrimp food... Is there a feeding cage or device I could use for the shrimp?
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Sep 13, 2020 03:49
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Walstad herself modified her method to include water circulation since we are only able to replicate a small slice of a natural body of water we don't have any other way to get that part working. In nature a breeze may ripple the surface of a pond for example and we don't have that in an indoor tank. According to her website for a shrimp tank she uses a gentle air bubbler, you don't want too much splashing as that drives off CO2. I get the impression that she has very very light bioloads in her tanks. https://dianawalstad.com/ As for the shrimp, try feeding them cooked carrot or blanched zucchini, stuff that won't interest a betta and will sink to the bottom. They don't need a lot of food and I don't think it's possible for shrimp to starve as long as they have plenty of surfaces to graze from.
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Sep 13, 2020 05:36
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Stoca Zola posted:Walstad herself modified her method to include water circulation since we are only able to replicate a small slice of a natural body of water we don't have any other way to get that part working. In nature a breeze may ripple the surface of a pond for example and we don't have that in an indoor tank. According to her website for a shrimp tank she uses a gentle air bubbler, you don't want too much splashing as that drives off CO2. I get the impression that she has very very light bioloads in her tanks. Yeah when I leave for a couple weeks I don't worry about my shrimp for this reason. It's actually a big part of why I don't have a bigger tank with fish in it - I love that it's mostly self-sustaining.
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Sep 13, 2020 05:45
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It's fun tossing in a piece of blanched vegetable and finding out just how many snails you have, but I've never seen a shrimp go for that. They're great for getting rid of any leftover bloodworms though. Their excitement is palpable.
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Sep 13, 2020 12:24
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Oddly enough my Bristlenose Pleco and Gpuramis like broccoli but no other vegetable. My shrimp like zucchini
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Sep 13, 2020 13:32
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My bristlenose plecos used to go bonkers for cucumbers back when I was breeding them. Slice a whole cuke lengthwise and drop it in on a skewer, by the next morning all that was left is super thin translucent green skin.
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Sep 13, 2020 16:15
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Enos Cabell posted:My bristlenose plecos used to go bonkers for cucumbers back when I was breeding them. Slice a whole cuke lengthwise and drop it in on a skewer, by the next morning all that was left is super thin translucent green skin. Oh its safe to leave them in all night?
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Sep 13, 2020 17:52
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Phi230 posted:Oh its safe to leave them in all night? Yes. I usually pulled mine by morning or so, but there was hardly anything left.
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Sep 13, 2020 18:08
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Do I need to do anything regarding pesticides on the vegetables?
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Sep 13, 2020 18:38
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Insane Totoro posted:Do I need to do anything regarding pesticides on the vegetables? Wash well (without soap), a lot of people remove the outside part of the veg that would be exposed to the pesticide before blanching.
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Sep 13, 2020 18:48
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Thanks! Good advice!
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Sep 13, 2020 21:19
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sororities are dumb and they don’t work, ask me how I know (note how I said ‘betta tanks’ and not ‘betta tank’)
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Sep 13, 2020 22:07
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Two questions - 1. Is it possible to over de-chlorinate? Arizona water literally *smells* like chlorine and it spooks the heck out of me. I feel better wasting product than potentially killing all my good bacteria. I usually do a double dose that Prime recommends. 2. Been 6 weeks and my new 125 gallon is fully cycled now. I didn't do any water changes in it and so of course it did have some substantial brown algae. Today, I did a 100% water change in preparation for adding feesh. Unlike the my other newly cycled tanks though, I came across two (yes, only two) worms when disturbing the sand substrate (GROSS!). They reminded me of the ones puppies get - less than an inch in length, white, and wiggly. Should I just nuke the tank from orbit with a chemical treatment to be safe in case they're planaria, or go ahead and start adding fishies? If yes on juking from orbit, any chemical recommendations? Additional tank details if it helps - there are live plants (amazon sword, hornwort, brazilian pennywort). I dumped about 100 baby mystery snail hatchings in last night and have seen one other hitchhiking ramshorn. To my knowledge there are no other live inhabitants. I'm not sad about dosing with a chemical and losing the mysteries because of course I have 7 other clutches that appear to be fertile anyway. Long term plans for said 125 are to have a school of neon tetras (about 50), 12 or so leopard cories, and to continue to let the mysteries breed so I can get my buck a piece in LFS credit to support my hobby. Edit: turned on the filters while filling and saw another 10 or so of the gross wormy bois. Maybe they're living in the filters? http://imgur.com/gallery/hT69XpM candystarlight fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 03:15
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Phoenix/Glendale goon here; where are you? I use Prime on my water, it seems to take care of everything. Does the water still reek of chlorine after dosing?
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Sep 14, 2020 03:53
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Cowslips Warren posted:Phoenix/Glendale goon here; where are you? I use Prime on my water, it seems to take care of everything. Does the water still reek of chlorine after dosing? Also Phoenix/Glendale! Yes, I think so. I've tested and it shows no chlorine after single dosing and double dosing. For the 125, I fill my bathtub, dose with the Prime, and then use a pump to fill the tank. I'm on the 3rd bathtub and the bathroom still smells like chlorine. The smaller tanks I fill by filling a 5 gallon jug and dosing a few days in advance. That method I've not smelled the chlorine.
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Sep 14, 2020 04:08
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Is there a way to condition water without prime? Like what happens if for whatever reason prime becomes unavailable.
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Sep 14, 2020 04:26
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Odd. perhaps something in the tub? I use 30 gallon Rubbermaid garbage totes for the water, let it sit with a powerhead for a day or so to drop the temperature to at least 80 before I use it. What LFS?
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Sep 14, 2020 04:27
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Cowslips Warren posted:Odd. perhaps something in the tub? I use 30 gallon Rubbermaid garbage totes for the water, let it sit with a powerhead for a day or so to drop the temperature to at least 80 before I use it. What LFS? Oh interesting, I'll have to try a rubbermaid next time instead. It could possibly be the ceramic coating on the tub. Kona Reef on Shea offered it last time I was in about 3 weeks ago. I've never actually had babies to sell though, so I'll have to see how it goes in practice rather than theory.
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Sep 14, 2020 04:43
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Phi230 posted:Is there a way to condition water without prime? Like what happens if for whatever reason prime becomes unavailable. I have other brands as a backup, there are many, but if you mean not using any chemicals? Other than that, you can let it sit out in a bucket for at least 24 hours since that's free!
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Sep 14, 2020 04:47
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Phi230 posted:Is there a way to condition water without prime? Like what happens if for whatever reason prime becomes unavailable. Can’t you just like let it sit and offgas the chlorine for a few days? Esp if you can maximize surface area using a tote/keep it agitated with a powerhead? That obviously won’t do anything for any solutes/additives that won’t just offgas, not sure what other treatment functions Prime performs off the top of my head besides dechlorinating. Edit: beaten
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Sep 14, 2020 04:48
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You can't offgas chloramine, so you need to know what they dose in your area before trying to offgas. I believe vitamin C works as a dechlorinator, I came across it first when looking at home brew supplies and here is a page that has more info and dosing rates https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/html/05231301/05231301.html Candystarlight: those wiggly worms look like detritus worms to me. There are a few species of aquatic worm, ones that eat organic matter in the substrate, and ones with pointy mouth parts that eat the tiny organisms that also live in the substrate. Neither of those are harmful and even Planaria aren't that harmful unless you're keeping shrimp or breeding fish. Planaria are flat and much broader than detritus worms, they have a distinct arrow shaped head with two dark spots visible as eyes in the middle of the arrow. There are other flatworms that are not predatory like Planaria are, they have rounded heads instead of the arrow. Most of the worms that are harmful to fish you won't see because they stay inside the fish. Even red camallanus worms stay mostly inside the fish with only the tips coming out of the vent. It's a good practise to worm new fish, something like levamisole or fenbendazole should be available or a combined product with praziquantel to treat flukes too. These medications won't kill Planaria but there are treatments that will if you ever have problems. It's best to just maintain good tank hygiene so there isn't excess food for worms to eat so you don't end up with an infestation. Try not to overfeed and if you have gravel, vacuum it every now and then with a gravel siphon vac thing to remove any organic build up.
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Sep 14, 2020 05:24
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Yeah, all of 2 detritus worms is nothing to worry about. Once your tank is established they’ll either disappear outright or be completely inconspicuous
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Sep 14, 2020 06:00
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Stoca Zola posted:Very helpful explanation about the different types of worms Thank you so much! I hadn't seen anything about their heads being different so that makes me feel a lot better about going out and adding fish next weekend. I've somehow missed doing the general dewormer for new fish! That's a really great tip, especially given that I don't have a QT tank. I've debated setting up a 30 gallon for quarantine only, but it seems like too much right now.
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Sep 14, 2020 06:26
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I'm a big advocate of quarantine tanks and preemptive worming after being burned with camallanus worms even though I quarantined for 6 weeks, and after the sick batch of panda corys I had. The advantages of quarantining is that you're treating a smaller volume of water with medication if you end up needing to medicate, you won't have plants at risk of being killed by medication and you should have clear visuals to observe the fish. It's a good idea to have a separate set of nets and siphons for your quarantine tank too to keep it isolated from your known healthy tank. If you have a couple of sponge filters running in your main tank you can throw one in and have an instantly cycled quarantine tank, boil it once quarantining is over to disinfect it then set it up cycling again without putting your main tank at risk. If you are likely to add more fish over time to your main display I don't think there's any safer way to do it than to quarantine and observe the new fish yourself. The down side of this is if your new fish decide to breed in quarantine and then you end up using that tank as a fry grow out tank and then maybe you need it to hold the extra fish and then you need a third tank as an actual quarantine tank... and eventually you find yourself with way more tanks and fish than you intended to keep.
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Sep 14, 2020 11:27
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After losing over $200 worth of fish because I did not QT, even a 10 gallon rubbermaid tote will save you so much in the long run.
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Sep 14, 2020 14:08
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Speaking of totes, how do you catch shrimp or fish that hide like loaches in preparation for a move. Are totes recommended for moving? I figure I'll move my fish tank on a separate day than my actual move so I can dedicate more care to it. Should i just put all my fish into a bunch of Styrofoam boxes with punched out lids, put an air bubbler in each? I'm moving 4 hours away, is this dangerous for the cycle in my filter even if I keep it wet?
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Sep 14, 2020 14:17
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