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When you're chaining dungeons for more and better loot and XP, pushing everyone's endurance to the limit, you tend to not care that there's "only" 9 levels. Fun is more important than padding. Revengeance is, what, five hours long if you don't replay it? Thing is, games like these are meant to be replayed. And are really, really fun doing it. Also, if someone can go from new character start to beating the last boss in just three hours, we should give that guy a fuckin' medal or something.
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Aug 17, 2013 04:58
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Switching the narrator voice to the Sorceress helps a lot, I find.
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Aug 18, 2013 05:46
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Red Harvest posted:I started mapping out the runes only to find out that they don't all show up in the same place all the time. Actually, someone beat you to the punch. Reverof posted:I made a list of the Rune combinations for reference. Should be printer friendly too. Grab it here: EDIT: Oh, you mean mapping out all of the rune spawn points. Yeah, they're mostly randomized and the few that really matter are pretty easy to remember if you come across them. There's always a THF in the OTS room, the room in Old Capital next to the banshee quest room, the room with the third Village Maiden in the Catacombs, the wrecked cart in the B route of the Lost Woods, and so on. It might be good to nail down the set rune combinations. And if someone could figure out if different combinations were weighed to have different chances of spawning at different rune spawn points, I'd be very impressed. Also a little frightened, it sounds like a job for a madman. Whenever a B rune shows up I get annoyed if someone casts SBS, unless we're in the Chaos Labyrinth. Also: Million Ghosts posted:Oh, I know that kicking isn't really viable as a build and I've been mostly focusing on Power Shot and Impact Arrow. I was just curious as to what my best secondary damage source was. Thanks for the infodump. I find that Elemental Lore is the best secondary damage option once you get it to a high enough level. The stat screen doesn't tell you, but when it levels it improves both AOE/range depending on which element you're using, and combine that with the tornado's decent DPS you'll find you can get more mileage out of it. The trouble is it's a bit tricky to use since you're not taking advantage of the Elf's other main asset, agility. At a high enough level, though, Deadly Boots 3 ought to keep your kicks slightly less ineffectual than normal and you can afford to dump points into Elemental Lore when your high priority skills are a few good levels away from an upgrade. The tornado can be stacked up on itself like the casters' Ice Staff tornado and if a boss is standing still you can get a lot of hits in with it. It does a lot more damage than boots, but boots are both more fun to use and kicks can keep you in the air longer if you're Evade Cancelling charged shots. Also as an Elf I find that with Clone Strike lvl 2 (no higher), Impact Arrow, Power Shot, and your choice of either Salamander Oil or Toxic Extract (or better yet, both) you can do obscene amounts of damage that put all of your other options to shame. Just crouch and charge up volley shots and you'll straight up melt bosses' faces. Your consumable skill items apply their effects to your Impact Arrow shockwave(s) and turns it from a curiosity into a raging pillar of fire. Or cloud of poison. Bows that buff Magic Damage also buff this effect. I consider Elf a sort of high-speed hybrid-caster with an extremely powerful nuke option. Runa fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 22:38
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I had a rune guide set up and everything.
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I really wish the game wouldn't keep tossing player-bones at people who're deliberately trying to avoid them. I keep seeing the same Japanese message pop over bones, constantly, and it's getting on my nerves. It's that one hacker whose Sorceress is named TESSA, all caps. I'm being haunted by the ghost of a hacked character.
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Aug 19, 2013 03:43
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Couch co-op is definitely an afterthought. I know one friend whose roommate was tired of the limitations so he just buy his own copy so we could all co-op online. Have been giving all classes a shot, not just my main Elf and Sorceress, and I've found the Dwarf is an absolute blast to play. It's sort of a shame the gameplay videos tossed about in the lead up to release didn't show off precisely how chaotic and frantic fights can get, and even the "slow and steady" Dwarf's mobility options and aerial attacks are delightfully absurd. Going from Mystara to DC is like learning to swim in treacle, then being given a jetpack and a bag filled with infinite water balloons. Except for fighter. He's just sitting there in his hot air balloon, watching wistfully as everybody else hops, skips and jumps all over the place, Cyclone Mashing the odd giant bee that drifts by. He's solid, but very much the slowest character to play as.
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Aug 19, 2013 23:53
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Million Ghosts posted:The previews definitely did not show off how insane things can get, from what I saw they presented a much more methodical game than the ADHD spellfest we got. Not that I'm complaining. It does sometimes work against you, there's times where I think I'm in the fight being useful, then notice myself off in the corner fighting the screen edge, just because I can't tell what the hell is happening. Tell me about it. This is also why I learned not to take duplicate classes, especially if I'm running Amazon. Four Dwarf party is awesome, however, and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.  quote:Is Toxic Extract or Salamander Oil better for Elf? I'm leaning Toxic just because but Fire is nice for Undeads and such. Both, but leaning towards more points in Salamander Oil while levelling. Salamander Oil is more useful in more situations but it's useless against the Kraken and Red Dragon. Either can create the pillar of fire/cloud of poison DoT effect, and if you're fighting a boss that's not particularly weak or strong to fire then this basically doubles the amount of magic arrows you can fire. As these can add an extra 15% to 20% DPS to an already killer clone strike volley, more if you've got a Magic Dmg Up affix on, they're well worth it to max both.
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Aug 20, 2013 00:49
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Colorspray posted:As far as solo dungeon chaining goes, I was just letting my npcs die and refuse to continue them. Usually in a few minutes they'd be replaced with another npc from the inn, but I just had to end a dungeon chain where all my npcs died and no others would join despite the inn having plenty. I usually just set all slots to "Join Off" at the Inn with Triangle, which some Hard mode sidequests will require you to do eventually. Since enemy stats scale to the number of players, including bots, this winds up making things pretty simple for me.
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Aug 23, 2013 01:30
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Thanks for laying everything out like that, fungi! Sending a copy of your post to the rest of my crew.
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Aug 23, 2013 22:51
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Lunethex posted:Posting comics? I found one. Hah, it's nice that these don't quite need a translation.
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Aug 24, 2013 07:46
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I've been assuming the Ancient Dragon doesn't have any elemental strengths or weaknesses, was I mistaken?
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Aug 25, 2013 22:55
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The Killer Rabbit is almost trivial since an Elf can drop down an absurd number of fire pillars in its face. Not even the Wizard can lay down as much (literal) firepower in such a short time. Though restocking arrows while fighting bosses should be a cue for Yakkity Sax to start playing.
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Aug 29, 2013 04:33
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Delaio posted:Can I ask if someone here has chained dungeons to the point of using all the durability and items in each bag? I'm kind of curious as to how many dungeons you can get through if you go the whole nine yards. Not to mention what kind of bonuses you're looking at during the last couple of runs. I'd love to hear how many S & A rank items someone pulled from an all bag chain. There's limits to how high the bonuses can go when you're chaining, learned that when going for the 5 million points achievement. I think it's 200% gold and score each, 90% rarity boost, 50% spoil effectiveness. And I hope I'm not mistaken. At some point letter rarity winds up being less important than whether or not something's Glowing or Godly, though as I understand it the higher ratings are more likely to have the special outlines. Unless that's just confirmation bias, which it might well be. And chatter around places seems to think that "spoil effectiveness" is actually talking about the likelihood of something being Glowing or Godly, too. I wasn't even close to running out of bag durability by the end of it, though I was certainly out of items and Salamander Oil. And I had about 30-40 S rank and A rank treasures each. Thanks to level scaling, though, this is probably overkill for anyone not level 99 on Inferno and I'm still slumming it on Hard.
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Aug 29, 2013 10:53
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It's to the game's credit that even the agreed-upon worst class in the game at least has something in its favor. And that's the ability to melt bosses into a fine paste with ludicrous amounts of burst damage. Before quickly dying, at which point her ammo refills and she can continue with the boss-melting. Shame about everything else with the Elf, though. She's practically her own special challenge run when solo.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:57
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Having an Amazon and an Elf in the party really helps when going for those Ancient Dragon time attack trophies. We managed to get Conqueror (Hard mode, 3 minutes) first try even though our Wizard buddy was slightly underlevelled. Hope the A. Dragon fight on Inferno goes anywhere near as smoothly as this, tonight was a good night.
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Aug 31, 2013 05:18
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Overlord K posted:Is equipment that increases kick damage really, really rare at higher levels? I'm still in normal since I'm only playing with friends and just leveling up all my non-elf chars while I wait to clear the ancient dragon with them, so I'm curious about if it's that rare of a bonus... There's only so much defense that items can have (max of 60 at lvl 99 according to the internet) and I haven't noticed kick damage modifiers on stuff. At all. I'd wager it's pretty uncommon. Or maybe the higher-rating, really valuable loot tends to have more important affixes going on and kick damage bonuses just get overridden. It could be confirmation bias, I've just stopped appraising anything whose icon isn't glowing yellow or white and I'm only on Hard. Usually, you'll be more worried about items that increase all of your attacks' damage across the board against specific Types of enemies. Those are thankfully quite common when you get to the point where you can afford to ignore any treasure that isn't Glowing or Godly. I do wish kicks were more useful, though. Deadly Boots could use a serious buff.
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Aug 31, 2013 08:07
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Crimson posted:So should I just restart as a different class? I'd really like to not just be a boss killer on my elf. Are they terrible at the higher difficulties? Starting to roll in Inferno now and it's not bad. Elf is still probably the most fun for me to actually play, since I don't mind my melee being useless. In fact, melee is kind of dangerous beyond a certain point since enemies start getting really quite tough really quite quickly. Despite being less immediately useful against trash mobs than any other class, I find that playing an Elf means getting hit a lot less often. The elf has a pretty varied toolbox for not getting hit, especially since charging an arrow in midair doubles both as a defense against most enemies and it's one of the elf's few and reliable options for putting her arrows to good use against mobs if playing with friends or bots. If solo, enemies tend to line up since they're all aggro'd on you so a single charged shot will hit most if not all of them, and you can just dodge all the way over to the other side of the map and repeat. The elf can't take a hit and you'll be a drive-by sniper, but you'll be pretty mobile and being the most controllably agile class is still loads of fun. Challenging, but fun. The elf only has a really hard time with flying mooks, since the best way to hit those are either kicks or crouching volleys. And the latter are a bit of a waste on mobs, really.
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Aug 31, 2013 21:16
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Quixzlizx posted:You can jump in the air and take out a whole line of flying mobs with a power shot the same way you can on the ground, if you hold up while you fire. The only flying mobs I have trouble lining up by sight alone are the fire demons, so I have to pay particular attention to lining up the shadows for them. That's pretty impressive, I can only get a jumping upshot to work one times out of five. Though I'll admit I only really worry about it with the demons since wasps are weak enough that kicking actually does count for something. Spot on about the arrows, though these days I'm so used to chaining that I've become pretty stingy with my Life Points. Thankfully, I've noticed the Ancient Dragon has a pretty generous arrow drop rate (after five full volleys of five arrows each, I tend to find I mysteriously still have fifteen arrows remaining) and he's the only boss the advice doesn't work with. I also used to be stingier with Clone Strike arrows, but have since figured that wasting a bit of Salamander Oil isn't all that big of a deal when the arrow bit of the crouching volley attack alone does 30K damage against most bosses at lvl 65 on Hard.
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Aug 31, 2013 22:13
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If you work your way up to level 35, you can also try soloing the Ancient Dragon. Bosses actually get harder the more players or bots are accompanying you. Besides, after beating the dragon, hanging out at Hard difficulty at level 25 is just asking for a world of hurt.
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Sep 1, 2013 01:20
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Welp, got The Destroyer by killing the Infernal-level Ancient Dragon in 3:28, solo, at level 85, with an Elf. On my first try. "Worst class in the game" right here, folks.
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Sep 4, 2013 01:31
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Kikkoman posted:All this elf talk makes me wonder if I'm building mine up correctly. Do you guys have tips on whayt skills I should be focusing on? Any bow skill besides Rapid Shot is a good idea, and maxing out Clone Strikes and Power Shot is the quickest way to become a real hard hitter. It's not very efficient to max Clone Strikes out, true, but hitting a boss five times in one shot for 5000-7000 per hit is nothing to sneeze at. Naturally, you'll want to max quiver quickly, too. It's a good idea to have some points in Toxic Extract and Salamander Oil but those are low priority since, well, you can easily double down on any castable "skill items" by loading up multiples in other bags. Even if you only have 20 shots of Oil per bag, if you have 9 bags that gives you 180 shots of oil across multiple chained dungeons. Boots aren't really worth it and Elemental Lore is pretty useful but takes quite an investment to bring up to par with the bow. That and learning to carry a torch around everywhere. Or standing in puddles/the very edge of deeper water to activate the best Elemental Lore attack in the game. I call it "puddlemancy." It's more reliable and cheaper in skill points than Holdout Dagger and Backstab against mobs and you don't have to worry about running out of it, though it's my understanding that thrown-dagger Backstabs are absolute killers against bosses you can, well, actually backstab. Oh, and the fellow above me is absolutely right about Evasion.
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Sep 5, 2013 03:14
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NESguerilla posted:I really want to like this game, but after a few hours I am just not really enjoying it at all. I can't even tell what's going on half the time and the enemies seem like such huge Damage sponges. Should I be grinding early levels or something? I got to those Doom beetles and just chipped away at them for like 15 minutes until I eventually died too many times and ran out of money. Really? Egads! Have you been doing the sidequests you get from the Adventurer's Guild? The level progression of stages before the multiplayer unlocks seems to assume people do the quests as a matter of sorts. The Doom Beetle telegraphs all of its hits in a pretty large window so dodging its attacks is pretty easy compared to the Harpy. If you bring bots they'll help to distract it or destroy cocoons. What class are you playing?
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Sep 5, 2013 21:56
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NESguerilla posted:Yeah, I was doing side quests, but the beetles killed my only companion and I ran out of gold. My weapon also broke mid level so I was doing terrible damage. Ah. As far as the bot situation's concerned, the game provides enough bones to give you a full party after three stage runs (including any repeats to get sidequests done) and since any bots you get carry over for your entire profile, it's handy to have bots from your high-level main run helping out when trying out alts. Until you're comfortable with the game that you can solo an entire stage, it's a good idea to have a full party of level-appropriate bots at all times. And keep your equipment repaired and up to date, things are a bit Diablo-like in that respect. Elf's admittedly one of the trickier classes to get good with, especially since your only worthwhile attacks are ammo-based and to reload you have to get into the thick of things. Amazon has a similarly high-mobility playstyle and is built around risk and reward as a mechanic (her skills mean she gets faster and more powerful the more damage she takes and the more she hits enemies), and you don't have to worry about being a hit-and-run glass cannon quite as much. I consider the Elf not to dissimilar to the caster classes as they all rely on limited-ammo attacks and require a moment to recharge or reload, none of them can take a hit, and can even be built to use pretty strong (environmental) magic herself. It doesn't hurt that all of them are considered "expert" classes and aren't the friendliest to people just getting started. Comedy Option: Give Dwarf a shot. Just roll out an alt, play his tutorial, and start throwing EVERYTHING. EDIT: High-level Elf Confessions: I switched over to Elf after playing Sorceress and Fighter for a bit and trying everyone else since she didn't really appeal to me on paper, and she's become my main. Compared to other classes, I did have to readjust my habits and and rethink my tactics, but then something clicked and I haven't really gone back. I get the feeling pubbies expect me to dodge-cancel and kick-cancel to rain aerial charged shots on regular mobs, since that's what all the Elf experts do. Heck, I could do it, I'm just too terrible to actually hit anything if I tried. "Don't mind me, I'm just carrying this torch wherever I go. Why yes, I do have max Elemental Lore, why do you ask?" I do admire throwing-dagger Backstab elves, though, for their gumption. Runa fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 22:13
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My Amazon buddy was afraid this would happen, but I look forward to the day when one Elf standing in a puddle can clear out an entire screen of mooks singlehandedly. Wonder why the Fighter didn't get any touchups, though. Is he really considered that well off?
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Sep 6, 2013 15:05
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I wouldn't say the game's terribly hard, no, unless you picked Elf as your first class. As an Amazon player, I'd say you sort of fell into a fortunate position. Or unfortunate, if you were looking for a serious challenge. In higher difficulties, when chaining dungeons for EXP and high-quality spoils, it starts getting expensive to keep bringing dumb bots with you. Revive costs ramp up exponentially though in Normal that should rarely be an issue. Bots are disposable, though, since you can't repair their equipment. But yeah, balance isn't quite all there. The JP patch was an attempt to address that, since currently Amazons are really quite good and nobody else comes close.
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Sep 14, 2013 12:36
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If you're not groping Rickey Rat you're doing it wrong. (He does handstands when you click him.)
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Sep 15, 2013 00:38
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Hah. Those are definitely, uh, players alright.
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Sep 18, 2013 13:26
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Overlord K posted:That second one. The dragon time attack achievement probably depends on your class. Elves are boss killers and can pull it off underlevelled and a good Amazon could also probably handle it. Otherwise you'll want to be at cap with all the dragonbusting equipment you can carry. And bring a friend similarly prepared, so that you can outpace the party size scaling. As far as scaling down goes, it's largely invisible and behind the scenes but aside from the Affixes, equipment has base stats that seem to be calculated from their item level and rarity rating. At lvl 99, as far as I can tell every accessory has 60 defense. Weapon base stats have a bit more varied range, with minimum and maximum damage ratings to keep track of, but base stats are procedurally generated and that procedure is what things scale back down to. Every item above a level cap probably has a set of hidden lower-level stats as backup.
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Sep 18, 2013 22:15
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Raitzeno posted:The purple one is Eclair from La Pucelle, I believe. Not quite! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Crown
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Sep 25, 2013 23:14
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Haha, that goddamn bunny. When the jaws start flying, it's not that cute.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:43
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Quixzlizx posted:I'm not going to say I'm the internet's greatest Elf expert, but I do think the recommended skills are way off. For recommended skills, I'd go Power Shot, Impact Arrow, Spacious Quiver, Clone Strike, Salamander Oil, Elemental Lore (with Holdout Dagger & Backstab instead of Elemental Lore for dagger-focused builds). Yeah, this is the skill loadout I roll with. Putting points in Boots was a mistake I won't make again and Rapid Shot doesn't work with charged or clone shots, which are the biggest assets in the Elf's arsenal.
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Oct 9, 2013 21:17
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No lie, when I was still bad at the game, I would constantly get petrified because I kept mistiming my charged volley shots with her eye flash.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:31
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The Dwarf has the biggest chest of them all. (Thank you for still doing these by the by. They're a delight.)
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Nov 12, 2013 19:40
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I've used a mostly Lore/Clone Strike [volley shot] build to get through the highest difficulty, but this was before boots were buffed so I don't know if those are more viable now. Always start with arrows first, then go in to kick/cast lore to get your arrows back, then return to shooting. With crouched charge shots (hold Up and Circle at the same time) you don't have to jump up to hit something if you're under it's shadow. And with Clone Strikes, your crouched shot shoots a volley whose damage can really add up the more points you put into the skill. I've found that kicks are useful for their mobility more than the damage they deal. The Elf is almost as mobile as the Amazon if you play her right, and in some levels it's possible to get through without getting hit at all. There's more advanced tricks involving charged shots, kicks in mid-air to cancel the post-charged shot recovery animation, and dodges, but I found I never really had to deal with that stuff. Once the Elf reaches a critical mass of arrow damage and quantity, she becomes the boss killer par excellence and she becomes remarkably easy to use.
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Feb 6, 2014 18:20
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