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What hot hatch do you own?
This poll is closed.
Golf GTI / R / R32 196 0.02%
Impreza WRX / STi 133 0.01%
Mazdaspeed 3 92 0.01%
Veloster Turbo 20 0.00%
Focus ST 149 0.01%
Other Hot Hatch 230 0.02%
Elantra GT 1000001 99.92%
Total: 1000821 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

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InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


The Fiesta ST has an interesting sibling, at least in the UK/Euro market - you can spec a Zetec S with the 1.0 Ecoboost, giving you a very similar chassis and 125bhp in a car that's under 100g/km on CO2 emissions and will do ~60mpg.

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InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


I detest the power delivery. Stick a dual-clutch auto behind a diesel engine, though, and it's pretty nice.

Edit: I also (in addition to a low annual mileage) do a lot of short journeys, and would cause death by EGR system in very short order).

InitialDave fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jul 9, 2013

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


I'm never sure about test driving hot hatches. I mean, do you drive it sensibly and never get a feel for what the car's really like, or do you drive it like you actually would if you owned it, and come off looking like every other knuckle-dragging test pilot that comes in off the street?

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


If you're using a hot hatch for straight-line races, you're rather missing the point.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Bob A Feet posted:

Hey man! You drive yours, I'll drive mine.
Good answer.

blk posted:

You could say the same thing about taking one to a track. I think the point of hot hatches is to have fun fun
Yep, and thrust is fun - but it's not playing to the strengths of a hot hatch. They'll accelerate with more determination than an equivalent base car, but they're really meant for razzing around twisty stuff. Whether or not they can outdrag something isn't a particularly appropriate metric for deciding how good a hot hatch is.

blk posted:

they're tarted up economy cars with inherent platform compromises marketed to people who want a spirited DD, not purpose built serious performance business.
No more so than an M3 or similar. I've always argued that you should be able to get into the cooking model and find it similarly entertaining, albeit less focused and at lower speeds - the handling and balance should be inherent to the design, the hot version being what makes a good car great, rather than transforming the terrible into the half-decent.

Bob A Feet posted:

And I don't street race people.

blk posted:

And just in case there's any question, I think street racing is silly, but this was an isolated area with no traffic and the last time I did so was when I was 19, so I indulged.
If you're not being a knob about it, seeing if you can beat someone away from the lights or put some distance between you on a series of corners is pretty harmless. It's the kind of thing we all do a little bit now and then, always have done and always will do. Don't feel the need to pre-emptively defend yourself against people who'll take you to task for it, they're idiots and you should consider yourself free to ignore them.

This EVO video Harry Metcalfe did on the Clio Trophy does a good job of encapsulating what I like about hot hatches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTTI-aMKn60

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Bob A Feet posted:

I have the opposite opinion than him I guess : automatics (True autos/ not DSG's like VW's) will emphasize the bad things about small engines (especially 4 cylinders) which is mainly low torque.
Agreed. I detested traditional autos until I had one with a V8 in front of it. With little engines, they're horrible. DSGs, on the other hand, seem to work nicely, at least the limited drives I've had of them.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


jammyozzy posted:

This is more a question for Euro goons, does anybody have experience with Clio 172's? I've been window-shopping a few that are in my price range, are there any common faults or issues with them? I've been thinking about a 172 Cup because I don't give a gently caress about air-con etc. and apparently it makes timing belt changes etc. much easier.

How's the driving position for a larger guy? I'm 6'5" with ~ a 36" inseam so I'm used to cramming myself into cars (I can just about drive an MX-5), will I have any particular issues?

I am seriously smitten with these stupid little cars.


See if you can stretch to a Trophy - lighter wheels and high-end suspension, but limited edition and pricier.

You should fit, but Clios feel quite bad for the sensation of sitting "on" rather than "in" to some people. Drive one.

Airbag lights love to come on, most common cause is the lovely connectors they use under the seats, very easy fix.

A slight difference in colour on the front wings isn't necessarily respray, they have plastic panels there, and some colours seem to show a very mild difference in shade on them.

There was a recall on Mk2 Clio bonnet latches. The design is crap, and the secondary (manual) catch sticks open, so if you don't have it properly secured, there's no backup, and many an owner has received a bonnet into the windscreen at speed. It's a lubrication issue, I believe Renault replaced them for free, but it should be fixable with cleaning and lubricating.

I just bought a cooking-model 2001 Clio to bumble about town in while I decide what I want to do next car-wise, so let me know if there's anything I can check for you that isn't specific to the sportier ones. I love the fact that the top models have three times the power of the base one, it's ridiculous!

Nidhg00670000 posted:

I can't really comment about size, but it is a Renault, and while much about them is people who can't accept that things actually get better sometimes, they still have faults of both minor and major kinds depending on your luck. Ignition coils, cabin fan, head gaskets, electrical connectors... the list of things people I know have had problems with is long and varied, and still some people drive them 250k km without any problems at all. I think the easiest way to deal with it is; do you want one? Then buy one. Be prepared for the Renault experience, and if you're lucky you won't have a problem in the world and that's just a bonus then, isn't it?
My original owner's handbook tells you how to recognise the signs of headgasket failure. Yeah.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Why on earth would they put the bracket on a car if it's being sold in a state which doesn't require a front plate? I'd have insisted on an unsullied bumper.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Loucks posted:

Humor me please, because if the answer is obvious I just don't know any better, but why would Ford bother with computer wizardry rather than just slapping a real LSD into the Focus St and calling it a day? Do they think that most people won't notice the difference and prefer to save a few bucks?
Because lines of code cost less than differential internals.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Basically, everything they need in terms of measuring wheel speeds and applying the brakes to give an LSD effect is already in there as part of other systems like ABS, traction control and stability control. All they have to do is instruct it to do what's needed.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Jefinabox posted:

And it corners like nothing I've driven.
Yeah, I have a cooking model Clio to bumble around in, and with sticky tyres you can fling it at roundabouts in a way that speaks volumes for the soundness of the basic design. I was sorely tempted to get a 182 or a Trophy prior to deciding on a WRX, but I actually get a perverse pleasure from thrashing the tits off the basic one.

With three times the power, and hopefully some really good tyres, that thing should let you terrorise just about anything on twisty roads.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


We already get a Mountune tuning pack (it's a K&N panel and a reflash) that gives 212bhp/236lbs.ft and keeps the warranty. 600 plus fitting.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Butt Wizard posted:

Calling it an RS without AWD is some sort of sacrilege.
What makes you say that? There have been three factory cars with an RS badge and AWD: Escort Cosworth, nineties Escort RS2000, later Sierra Sapphire. All others have been FWD or RWD.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Careful you don't overheat it and do a head gasket, but aside from that, just keep your foot in it and marvel at how many "fast" cars you find getting in your way.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


You consider the Celica a hatch? Weird. While it has a hatch, it's pretty universally considered a coupe here.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Bit more reasonable than the A1 Quattro they did, which was something like 41k.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


sadnessboner posted:

It'll be a bit more compelling if the rumor mill has it right and the drivetrain finds it's way into the Polo as well. Audi interior quality is great and all but it's redundant in a potential WRX competitor.

Edit: and the Audi is almost 50% more expensive than a Fiesta ST in the UK
It's also within a grand of a BMW 125i, which has similar performance numbers (218bhp and 6.2s to 60).

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Voltage posted:

God damnit - I went to Philly last weekend and got my FiST keyed within an hour of parking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmEhsuO2cKY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5QAjWbx03s

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Butt Wizard posted:

Off to be certified tomorrow - the tests are really thorough so we're expecting it to fail but we'll get an exhaustive list of what's wrong with it. Hopefully not much.


So it's not a real Lancia?

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Yeah, I guess it depends how hard your E36 as to whether you would really notice the dynamic differences. Have you ever had any "might be an idea to get some opposite lock on right about now" moments in it?

japtor posted:

Back to figuring out how to use it, Chris Harris has a few videos covering FWD driving that might be helpful. Other than learning the driving differences I guess it's just a matter of experience and getting used to how the car responds. And maybe learning left foot braking if you don't do it already
The main problem with quite a few modern cars with DBW throttles is that they kill throttle input on brake application, making left-foot-braking impossible, and so by extension you just can't drive the cars properly.

FWD is fun in a "grab the car by the scruff of the neck and throw it down a twisty road" way in something with a half-decent chassis, and you don't even need a "hot" hatch - if anything, there is more satisfaction in going balls-out in an underpowered car, and even a well-driven 1.2-1.4 cooking model can make itself known to "fast" cars on a country road.

The various electronic nonsense they throw at cars to protect retards from themselves can get hosed, though.

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InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


japtor posted:

Crap I keep forgetting about that. I thought (hoped) it was only in extremes to prevent more unintended acceleration incidents, like full throttle and full brake application or something. Have you experienced it yourself in anything yet? I don't think I've noticed it in my patents' recent Prius but I can't say I've driven it all that hard around corners
Yeah, Fiats and Vauxhalls I've driven have exhibited it, but in truth I don't drive new stuff all that often.

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