The Hot Hatch Discussion Thread: VAG? I prefer my FiST.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The Hot Hatch Discussion Thread: VAG? I prefer my FiST.

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What hot hatch do you own? This poll is closed.
Golf GTI / R / R32	196	0.02%
Impreza WRX / STi	133	0.01%
Mazdaspeed 3	92	0.01%
Veloster Turbo	20	0.00%
Focus ST	149	0.01%
Other Hot Hatch	230	0.02%
Elantra GT	1000001	99.92%
Total:	1000821 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

IOwnCalculus posted:

You forgot the best feature of the MS3 - the insane torque steer.

There is something charming about not knowing which way you're going to go when you put your foot down. I think they should replace the steering wheel with a roulette wheel.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2013 21:01

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 02:42

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Sorry for the lovely pics. Were these any good? I drove the previous generation NA Sprint/Swift and liked it.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2013 00:51

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Some kid in a Focus ST wanted to race the Saabaru at a light today; I obliged and beat him by a larger margin than I expected (my car is stock). I wonder if the Focus would do better with AWD or if the weight penalty would negate any launch benefits.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 06:57

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

InitialDave posted:

If you're using a hot hatch for straight-line races, you're rather missing the point.

You could say the same thing about taking one to a track. I think the point of hot hatches is to have fun fun - they're tarted up economy cars with inherent platform compromises marketed to people who want a spirited DD, not purpose built serious performance business.

And just in case there's any question, I think street racing is silly, but this was an isolated area with no traffic and the last time I did so was when I was 19, so I indulged.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 21:34

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

On the ST, are the only interior color options all black, black with blue inserts and black with yellow inserts?

# ¿ Sep 4, 2013 03:25

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Any of you with Focus STs putting car seats or kids in the back? If so, how's it working out?

# ¿ Sep 7, 2013 05:18

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

AI posted:

C30 styling

I love the front of the C30, I love love love the P1800 estate; I really don't care for the back of the C30. Too bubbly for my taste, especially the panels under the light columns. It feels way too round compared to the tautness seen in the front and side of the car.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2013 07:38

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Echobucket ygpm

# ¿ Nov 20, 2013 15:19

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

(Test) Drove the Focus ST for the first time today; no Fiesta STs were on the lot. Unfortunately it was raining hard with heavy traffic due to accidents so I didn't get to stretch its legs any. Nice shifter feel and NVH; I dug the Recaros as well. Clutch is kind of binary and the turning radius when parking is as poor as I've heard. Going back to the noise and heavy clutch in the Saabaru felt like driving a truck.

Oh and token bitching about side impact standards and visibility; it'd be so easy to reverse over a puppy in the thing. Still, it'd be nice as a fun practical car. More city manners than the WRX.

blk fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Feb 15, 2014

# ¿ Feb 15, 2014 04:37

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Rhyno posted:

I texted him, he's heading in tomorrow morning to do his best.

Try Truecar?

# ¿ Mar 27, 2014 03:40

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Trambopaline posted:

Wow that kinda sucks, you would think that's the whole point of buying new. It's a pretty hefty premium so you can hold a dealer responsible if the thing starts sucking, plus with the whole push Hyundai is making with trying to look like a reputable brand.

I've recently had a bit of a debate with a friend because he felt strongly about the idea of me wanting a FF Megane RS. I accept understeer is legitimately an issue in high horsepower FF cars because you're putting so much force through the front tires with turning and accelerating. I suspect though that in 90% of road type driving conditions, even if you are hitting the back roads with downhill hairpins and all that, you wouldn't really reach the point where you are pushing traction that hard. Beyond that, even if you do, all that really translates is that you're going to be gentler on the acceleration out of the apex if the suspension/chassis stiffness being equal compared to an FR car.

Am I totally crazy to think that way or does that mirror the goons' experience?

It highly depends on the car - so many trick diffs and e-diffs and wannabe-diffs out there now that FF is not the same across the board. I will say that I am a lot more conservative with AWD/FWD than RWD when entering a corner, and it's probably saved my life. If you forget to flick or compensate for each corner appropriately, high speed FWD corners are hair-raising.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2014 06:40

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

There wasn't a market for a 27K premium hatchback in NA, so 50K is probably a stretch (C30, A3).

I saw a new CLA the other day in person and was very disappointed. Part of the MB appeal is how god drat German the designs are - the CLA looked like an upscale Hyundai concept to me.

Chiseled front, melty asses. I'd much prefer all chiseled or even all melty.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2014 07:22

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Wheeee posted:

Five doors are more rigid, add little weight, are less likely to develop rattles and provide better side impact protection
Some three door hatches look better than the five door, such as with the Fiesta, but others like the GTI are simply proportioned better in the five door variants.

I'm confused by this. Does a rear door really provide more rigidity and side impact protection than a doorless rear quarter? I would think that side impact protection would also be the same between 3 and 5 door as the location of the B pillar doesn't seem to move that much - the driver and passenger doors on most 3 door compacts aren't dramtically larger. Why fewer rattles?

In other news, I finally heard a 500 Abarth being wound up in the flesh and now I want all my four cylinders to sound like that. What a fantastic sound.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2014 18:22

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Power is a distraction

This should be the subtitle of so many threads.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2014 05:24

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Night Danger Moose posted:

Naw, I meant this:

The FoST is looking the best to me right now, I'll probably be test driving it today. We don't have a FiST on the lot unfortunately.

Tangerine Scream! The best name for a color.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2014 15:22

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

SalTheBard posted:

I don't know of this against the rules but after getting rear ended and having my much beloved 05 Civic totaled out I'm on the market for a new car. I'm looking for a 4 dr Hatchback under $13,000. In that range I'm primarily finding Ford Focus SE's. Do any of you have any recommendations of something I'm not looking at?

So far I've test driven the following:
2011 Honda Fit
2012 Ford Focus SE
201X Hyundai Elantra (don't remember the year)
S010 Honda Insight

Mazda 3. There's even a nice one in the Marketplace thread.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2015 18:37

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Jack B Nimble posted:

I've learned a lot from reading this thread and now I have fairly specific question I've seen touched on but would like to bring up directly.

So I don't own and have never even been in a hot hatch. I live in Mississippi and it's always been mustangs, G bodies, anything american with a v8. Now, I've never actually owned a performance car of any kind, but that's the cultural background I come from. I, my friends, my girlfriend, we all think the new mustang is hot while hot hatches look like mini vans. Thing is, praise for appearance aside, I don't actually a mustang - I have a motorcycle for when I want to enjoy myself and (had) a mid size sedan when I need take people somewhere.

Now the mid size sedan is gone and it's time to replace it with...perhaps something more fun? Well, I've looked at recent car for about 20k-25k and youtube reviews and this forum have turned me onto the hot hatch. The mix of performance, utility, and practicability lead to an inexpensive car that can move four with comfort and still give a little thrill on the way to work. I'll admit that next to a mustang or even a genesis coupe they don't catch my eye, but there's absolutely no way I could seat 4 in those, let alone the admittedly appealing AE86. No, I have to throw off my upbringing and admit I want a tiny mini van that goes quick and turns hard.

Since I do want large back seat, I'd say that about narrows it down to either the FoST or the GTI, and that's my question today. I (highly) prefer the look of the GTI. Remember, I don't like the exterior of either vehicle, so it mostly comes down to the interior, and the GTI interior looks very, very nice. I'm also interested in having as comfortable of a car as possible, with performance being secondary.

Really it all seems to point to the GTI, except that I'm worried about reliability and ease of maintenance. I've only ever owned the most robust of domestics or Japanese cars, and I'm not at all sure I should be looking into Super German Engineering, especially since I'd really rather buy a car that was a few years old with a around 30k already on the odometer.

So here's the question: Is the GTI less reliable then the FoST? It's more costly to fix right? Does the GTI interior fall apart faster? If I do get a GTI, is it more advisable than with other cars that I go new for the warranty? Test drives can tell me what I think of either car when they're new, but I'm hoping for some anecdotes of how they'll seem when they've put on some years and some miles.

You know, really, in thinking typing this out, I'm starting to think the answer is to buy a used FoST and wait for the new speed 3, I think I'd actually enjoy the look of that car both inside and out.

I haven't owned a GTI but know people who have and I've driven many. Interior is by far my favorite of any hot hatch, and trim generally holds up OK, but I would not want to own a GTI (or any VW) outside of warranty.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2015 17:21

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

I'm considering selling the Saabaru and buying a Fiesta ST. What is wrong with me?

# ¿ Aug 2, 2015 05:03

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

scuz posted:

What sort of rear-wheel drive hatchbacks are out there? They don't even need to be hot. People keep throwing out Subaru this and that, but I'm 6'7" and I have never comfortably fit in a Subaru, even in the passenger seat.

edit: I have question regret; this is an easily-googled thing, ignore me.

I asked myself the same question when I was car shopping in late 2006/early 2007and ended up with one of these:

Don't even think about parroting the Top Gear 'hairdressers car' joke; it's tired and moderately homophobic.

Not hot or pretty from the front, but very spacious inside for four adults and could haul a hell of a lot of stuff. The pano roof was awesome.

That said, I was going about this the wrong way by making a list of bulletpoints like RWD, Hatchback and should've bought something more sporty. I think I ended up paying 13,500 back then; I wonder what else I could've got for that money at the time.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2015 16:04

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Doesn't Kia make something lukewarm kinda?

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 17:31

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

GutBomb posted:

I know the saabaru isn't the hottest of hatches, but is a manual version any fun to drive? I'm looking for something different with a bit more room than the FiST and this car is intriguing to me.

I have one of the 2006s with the 2.5t, can't speak for the other cars. It's basically a classier WRX. I haven't driven the FiST but am guessing it's slow car fast kind of fun. The Saabaru isn't really fun for me in the city, but it is practical and cheap.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2016 16:45

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Mine handles a lot more neutral with a bigger rear bar and Koni dampers/RCE springs/Whiteline tops per Jamal's suggestion. I might ease up the Konis a bit because I have a lot of speed bumps where I live, but they're otherwise fine. I haven't done any power mods or tuning because it's quick enough for me. Only other thing I did is a brake master cylinder brace to improve pedal feel - Christ, that was such a pain in the rear end to install.

I have 95k miles on mine and will probably drive it into the ground. I kind of wish I had sold it 5k ago before doing the timing belt, springs and struts (I really want a 997), but it is fun enough and practical enough and cheap enough that it's hard to walk away from.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2016 19:03

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Re: lifespan, I'd assume you could make it to 150-200k unless the paint all chips and away or the interior falls apart first (neither are the best). I'm kind of interested in that question myself. I can only provide anecdotes, but the only EJ255's I've seen/heard of failing have been modded for power. I've met a couple of people who have lost their tranny for similar reasons. I've heard some things about the stock tune being lovely and how a custom tune can actually improve reliability - maybe jamal or one of the other experts can chime in.

I've had my car for 40k and the only issues I've had to fix are a torn CV boot and leaking oil cooler. Both are easy jobs (but I'm a lovely mechanic). I may have a wheel bearing issue going on above 100 mph but don't often drive that fast so haven't looked into it.

The interior is bigger than the FiST but if you have a rear facing car seat you may have to scoot the seats up a little or a lot. I will find this out in September and am a little worried, I'm 6'1 and my wife is 5'9.

The 2.5T 5MTs (2006 Aero) are rare birds, only 235 were made. You may want to check out saab92x.org for more listings and info.

I have a Miata too (NA) and the pair of cars makes a good combo - combined purchase price for both was $15,100; the Saabaru had 57k miles on it and the Miata had 62k. I figure that's a combined lifespan of at least 200k miles for the price of a new econo shitbox, and they do basically everything better. I generally prefer the Miata unless I'm hauling people or things, but that's just my style.

Anyways, you can't really go wrong with the Saabaru, and if it's a 2006 Aero, you can easily sell it on the 92x.org forums when you're ready to part with it.

PM me if you have any other questions about ownership or shopping; I'm happy to help.

blk fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Feb 16, 2016

# ¿ Feb 16, 2016 02:16

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Mariana Horchata posted:

Not sure about yourself but everyone I know personally that has the money to freely buy late model German performance cars (usually in conjunction with having very few non-automotive financial obligations) are all the same way and go through 2-4 different daily drivers a year and it's obvious that they never really seem satisfied with what they have. I almost feel bad for them and how they can own an E90 M3 and not be swooning every minute their in the drivers seat but i guess that's just what happens when you go about acquiring cars for years and years like your playing Gran Turismo irl.

I'm the total opposite but im happy to be so, I still absolutely love my Fiesta ST (and occasionally live paycheck to paycheck at times because of it) and for the vast majority of the time there's really nothing else that I would rather be driving than what I already am. With 11k miles and handful of mods on it so far the only problems have been both moldings on the roof peeling slightly (which is likely from pressure washer at the carwash and not a build quality issue), one dead TPMS sensor replaced under warranty, and a flat tire from a piece of tail light...I did mention experiencing a clutch shudder issue briefly but that seems to have took care of itself thankfully. I think my average period of vehicle ownership has been around 2-3yrs, with my last two cars replaced due to being too broken to want to fix and continue driving them - which was my original intention to begin with. So far I plan on keeping this one until the new Fiesta finally comes out and maybe trading in for one of those depending on how they stack up to the Mk.7...unfortunately I don't see sales of the Focus RS being enough even by that point to make one of those my own at this point but who knows what the future holds.

I'm not good with multiple car ownership either. I have a '90 Miata at the moment as a 2nd summer-only car but ive decided it has to go because ive rarely driven it since I got the FiST...though that's also due to it being a little too low to the ground to actually drive like a Miata without constant fear of being swallowed up by the road (not my fault, prior owner did it - but it does look really nice parked...and the car was free/acquired on trade) and wears a 5yr old out of state inspection sticker at the moment even though it still registered, insured, and has an antique plate on it. I was planning to get another motorcycle (like a SV650) after selling it but i think id rather just pay off the ST early instead and enjoy the bike I already own. And i really love Miatas too, the car I owned for the longest period was my 95M Miata (5 years?).

What im saying is that Automotive Monogamy really can be a good thing sometimes - One

This is an interesting topic for me - how long to keep a car. I buy used cars with cash so payments don't come into play for me. I kept my C class 5-6years or 60k miles and was never happy with it from a driving perspective (it was practical and surprisingly reliable though). After that I picked up my Saabaru, which I've had for 4 years / 43k miles, and I've had my Miata for 3 years / 15k miles. The Saabaru is about to turn 100k, the Miata 82k.

When I'm not driving the Saabaru, I'm bored with it, but when I get behind the wheel and find a little bit of road I can screw off on, I have enough fun, and it's so cheap to own and practical that I can't justify getting rid of it.

I'm a little too tall for the Miata and am not fully comfortable in it after a back injury, but it's always a blast to drive. I've put more money into it than I hoped (new AC compressor, small coolant leak from head gasket, repainted bumper because PO had lost a 3x5" paint chip).

If I replaced either of these cars my gut would be to go to an E90 M3, Cayman/Boxster or other prestige car (or an S2000 if they weren't so overpriced), but I don't think I'd have as much fun. New cars, aside from the FiST, are even less interesting to me, at least in the 30k and under segment.

I guess what it comes down to is that cars with the characteristics I like (reasonably light, playful, engaging to drive) aren't made any more*, and the used cars with these traits (E30 M3 etc) have gone up so far in value that they're out of budget, too hard to find, or otherwise priced too high to justify - so there's nothing out there that I could really enjoy as my next DD.

*FiST is the obvious exception here but I wouldn't drop the Saabaru for it.

blk fucked around with this message at 07:53 on May 24, 2016

# ¿ May 24, 2016 07:49

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

The Locator posted:

Sort of surprised I haven't seen this on here yet. Matt Farrah bought a Focus RS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep10ChjKVuQ

Did anyone see what his Delorean sold for on BAT?

# ¿ Jul 7, 2016 07:15

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

It begins!

http://jalopnik.com/watch-this-ford-focus-rs-driver-drift-mode-his-car-into-1786210325

# ¿ Sep 6, 2016 01:31

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

I forget my exact coverage but it is insanely good; I pay about $750/year for the Saabaru through Farmers and get a speeding ticket every 3 years. Farmers has taken good care of me when I was hit while driving, hit on bike, and hit while parked (twice) but that's probably my agent more than anything. Extremely old school and great service.

I qualify for USAA but they are a lot more expensive.

blk fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Sep 12, 2016

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 05:42

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Those of you with FiSTs, how are the interiors holding up? Any rattles?

# ¿ Sep 24, 2016 14:02

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

How many of you would own a GTI past the end of warranty?

# ¿ Oct 30, 2016 22:19

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Ask Bajaha about his Veloster

# ¿ Nov 8, 2016 05:45

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Most windshield fluid has ammonia in it

# ¿ Dec 27, 2016 17:49

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Re: 10k 3 door

http://bringatrailer.com/2017/01/24/three-door-4x4-1972-chevrolet-suburban/

# ¿ Jan 25, 2017 01:32

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

PabloBOOM posted:

I just think of the veloster like an old Audi TT. A fashion statement generally lacking in fun. Prepare to be judged accordingly.

Cor, what a fashion statement it is, though. The first gens still look amazing.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2017 17:25

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Geo Storm GSI, Suzuki Swift GTi

# ¿ Apr 30, 2017 20:31

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

brand engager posted:

hosed up that ford made that cool AWD hatch but nobody makes a RWD hatch

There was a RWD hatch with a supercharged engine, available 6 speed and pano glass roof sold in the states recently.

You don't want it, I had one.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2019 03:26

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

How's reliability on MK7 GTIs? Is VW the same as it's always been, or have they improved?

# ¿ Oct 12, 2019 04:36

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Thinking of replacing my Saabaru with a Mk7 GTI but I�m not sure what trim or options to look for. Can someone clue me in? I guess there was a performance pack on 2017+?

# ¿ Mar 24, 2020 22:58

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Was the Mk 7 GTI available with a pano roof in the US? Is it rattly and unreliable?

Any guidance on Mk 7 ownership without a warranty? Not sure if I should do that or wait for a Mk 8, although I�m guessing that will have plenty of bugaboos out of the gate.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2020 03:11

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Any news on the next WRX having a hatch open, or an hatch option for the Civic Si or Type R? I want to go back to a hatch soon and the Mk8 VWs are turning me off with their touchscreen stuff.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2021 10:47

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 02:42

blk: Dec 19, 2009; .

Ok Comboomer posted:

but it�s Subaru so expect them to make lots of decisions that everybody loathes

CVT only lifted WRX Outback sedan, got it.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2021 13:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The Hot Hatch Discussion Thread: VAG? I prefer my FiST.

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