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Fo3
Feb 14, 2004
Interested party

Wait, I read this thread and all the knife chat in the product thread; I can't remember anything like that being suggested.
It is a hilarious knife indeed.

edit: "All knifes from the serie No Vac has an incredibly smart anti-vacuum edge and that makes commodities will release directly from the blade. The knifes are available with handles in plastic and rosewood. A soft blade steel makes it easy to maintain the cutting edge."

Bolding mine, I never really had that much problem with a huge vacuum force sticking food to my knife.

Fo3 fucked around with this message at Aug 2, 2013 around 18:11

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Damienz
Sep 4, 2012



Fo3 posted:

Wait, I read this thread and all the knife chat in the product thread; I can't remember anything like that being suggested.
It is a hilarious knife indeed.

edit: "All knifes from the serie No Vac has an incredibly smart anti-vacuum edge and that makes commodities will release directly from the blade. The knifes are available with handles in plastic and rosewood. A soft blade steel makes it easy to maintain the cutting edge."

Bolding mine, I never really had that much problem with a huge vacuum force sticking food to my knife.

No you're right, nothing similar has been mentioned here. I read a few swedish tests and forum posts where they recommended it at that price range.
The No Vac-thing is just a silly gimmick, seems to do jack poo poo. I'm really satisfied with it so far though, it's tons better than my old one.

Last but not least, they sure as hell didn't go for the classic look. I think mediaphage nailed it:

mediaphage posted:

Like, it's the knife they used in kitchens in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. The knife that Alfred uses to prepare Bruce Wayne's tea in the animated Batman series.

breakfall87
Apr 22, 2004
ABunch7587's little bitch

My mom got my dad one of those knives and he returned the absurd thing within the week.

In other silly rear end knife news, one of my cooks brought his knives to me so I could sharpen them (at a cost, obviously), and he had a Tojiro from the ITK Shirogami line on CKTG, and it was coming unclad. That's right. Unclad:





Got to be a factory defect.

Dr. Garbanzo
Sep 14, 2010

Pogo sticks are awesome!


I'll post decent pics tomorrow when my knives come home from work for the week but my workhorse knives have been a set of 4 shuns that only really get sharpened every six months at the most. I have a 20cm chefs knife that had multiple chips and a busted tip before it got professionally sharpened in one of the kitchens I worked in. The next is a santoku that's almost my most used knife in my kit and it's awesome for veg prep among other things. The paring knife also gets used a lot and while it tends to cut others it hasn't yet managed to get me. A knife I hated for years but recently found a use for was the 15cm utility knife. It's rubbish for just about everything given the thinness of its handle and shallow depth but a couple of weeks ago I discovered it's almost the ultimate in meat prepping due to it's downsides. I haven't tried it out yet but I think it's probably also a good deboning knife.

Stalizard
Aug 11, 2006

Have I got a headache!

Fun Shoe

I have an update about my bitchin' new cleaver.

I broke out the ol' belt sander and thinned the blade a little bit behind the edge and also sharpened it. I tested it on an old leek kicking around my fridge. It flew through the leek. Halfway through cutting the leek, I came to realize that I was all of a sudden missing a bunch of my fingernail and a little bit of my finger.

Didn't even feel it.

Thanks GWS. Chinese cleavers rule so much, I love this thing. Everybody go get a Chinese cleaver.

martinlutherbling
Mar 27, 2010


I think it's finally time to invest in a decent set of knives. I still live with a couple of roommates and my budget is somewhat tight, but I want something nice and fairly sturdy. From this thread it seems like the Tojiro DP line is the way to go. I'm thinking the DP Nakiri in "Damascus" cause it looks cool, the DP Gyuto (either 210 or 240, haven't decided yet). I'm thinking the 240 since I have a decent 8" Cutco chefs knife that just need sharpening. I figure between those three, a lovely bread knife and a $9 Forschner paring knife I'll be in pretty good shape. Thoughts?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I dunno. I'd take a petty over the nakiri as the gyuto can do most anything the nakiri can and you can use the petty for deboning tasks. Then, if you don't mind not having a dedicated slicer, then you'd be pretty much set.

martinlutherbling
Mar 27, 2010


The thing is, I've never had to debone anything and if the need comes up I think a cheap Victorinox will do. Mostly I chop, slice, and dice. Is there really anything a Nakiri does better than a Gyuto then?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


martinlutherbling posted:

The thing is, I've never had to debone anything and if the need comes up I think a cheap Victorinox will do. Mostly I chop, slice, and dice. Is there really anything a Nakiri does better than a Gyuto then?
I guess it's personal preference - I mean the blade shapes are different, so you'll use different strokes, but you can perform the same tasks. I strongly prefer the western curve. It's not like the nakiri's totally redundant, as I imagine that it is better for push-cutting, but realistically I don't do a ton of brunoise. Deboning pork shoulder, however, is a mission critical task for me.

What's great about the CCK small cleaver as an alternative to the nakiri is how big it is and how much diced onion you can move around at a time.

martinlutherbling
Mar 27, 2010


Well I've used and loved Chinese cleavers before, but mostly the random Chinatown $12 specials. My only worry with the CCK is upkeep, not with myself but with my roommates. Can't tell you how many times I've come home to my cast iron pan filled with water, and I'm the only one who ever oils it too. Don't wanna risk that with any really decent blade.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


martinlutherbling posted:

Well I've used and loved Chinese cleavers before, but mostly the random Chinatown $12 specials. My only worry with the CCK is upkeep, not with myself but with my roommates. Can't tell you how many times I've come home to my cast iron pan filled with water, and I'm the only one who ever oils it too. Don't wanna risk that with any really decent blade.
The CCK was built for abuse - you could ruin that blade a hundred times and you'd still have metal you could take off to sharpen it. It's the same price as that Tojiro anyways, so sort of a moot point.

Stalizard
Aug 11, 2006

Have I got a headache!

Fun Shoe

If you're that scared, would it be so bad to invest less than ten dollars in a chinatown stainless shibazi cleaver for general knockaround purposes? That way you could have your cleaver and use it too, and if anyone else wanted a stupid huge gigantor knife they could use the beater?

The easiest way to make sure you are the only one to use your cleaver is to threaten your roommates with it.

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!


Unrelated, or is it?, but the 8" kiwi cleaver has a really great balance for throwing.

Sir Spaniard
Nov 9, 2009



So I sent an enquiry email about getting 2 28 centimetre gyuto knives.


There's a 5 month waiting list. Looks like the birthday present will have to turn into a slightly late Christmas one. :c

Hobohemian
Sep 29, 2005

by XyloJW


Anybody have any opinions on this Sabre set of knives:http://www.amazon.com/Saber-German-...&keywords=sabre ? A friend mentioned them to me; it' a full set for only around 330 and seems to have decent reviews. There's a couple in there I doubt I'll ever use, but the price and testimonials seems good enough. Thoughts?

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!


This is zenlike use of a Deba and a sujihiki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltEqIXxBoxg

Is it sad I thought "I wonder what that tool he's using to scrape the meat off the bones is called" before realising it's a spoon?

Also I read an article that describes' Tojiro's "Western Style Deba" as a heavier Gyuto, so that might be something to try if you consider Gyuto's too "light".

deimos fucked around with this message at Aug 5, 2013 around 16:30

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



Hobohemian posted:

Anybody have any opinions on this Sabre set of knives:http://www.amazon.com/Saber-German-...&keywords=sabre ? A friend mentioned them to me; it' a full set for only around 330 and seems to have decent reviews. There's a couple in there I doubt I'll ever use, but the price and testimonials seems good enough. Thoughts?

If you really need all those knives, I don't know. My go to rec is to buy a chef's knife and a paring knife and start from there. For $330 you can get a very very good chef knife, a very very good petty, and a knife roll if that is important to you and still have change.

I mean, this is kind of the equivalent of paying 40bux for a lovely las vegas buffet which will have one of pretty much everything you could ever want but each will be a lovely example of it, or going somewhere that specializes in certain foods and paying 40bux for less variety, but great quality.

These knives are X45CrMov15 which is a super stain resistant but fairly soft steel that a lot of lower end manufacturers use (like calphalon, etc). It's in the low 50's Rockwell Hardness.

deimos posted:

This is zenlike use of a Deba and a sujihiki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltEqIXxBoxg

Is it sad I thought "I wonder what that tool he's using to scrape the meat off the bones is called" before realising it's a spoon?

Also I read an article that describes' Tojiro's "Western Style Deba" as a heavier Gyuto, so that might be something to try if you consider Gyuto's too "light".

A deba should be single beveled, though, so in practice, it's quite different. Also, debas top out at where gyutos start in terms of length (around 180mm) so the geometry will be quite different when used.

If you really like knifezen videos, check out itasan http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj_bzwy94nk9ZJwGruMz4Zg

cryospam
Aug 4, 2013



It seems like they're not available any more in a full set (at least nobody sells a full set) but I picked up few from the Miyabi 7000MC from Henckels and I freaking LOVE them. They're not quite as pretty as many of the handmade Japanese knives, especially some of the etched ones, but they're SUPER sharp and the steel is hardened to a rockwell hardness of 66, far beyond even most premium handmade knives. I got the Santoku, the chef's knife, and the utility knife, I just wish they had a Nakiri in the set. By far the best knives I've ever owned, but I've never spent a TON on kitchen knives.



They were a great upgrade from my Cutco knives I bought when I was 20. =)



No Wave posted:

I made a few borosilicate honing rods.



I was thinking I'd send you that and you could keep it and you could tell me if it's all hosed up. I have a few extras, just kind of curious to get another perspective on how it turned out and I don't really know any other spergy cooks. I mean that as a compliment.

Just let me know if you (gravity) are interested, and I'll send it off.



No Wave, Any chance you would be willing to sell one of those? I can't seem to find a good borosilicate rod anywhere now that HandAmerican seems to have stopped selling them.


GrAviTy84 posted:



Nakiri: Sort of a longish, shorter cleaver. These are pretty much only used for prepping vegetables. If you are a chopper, notrocker who cooks primarily vegetarian, this is the knife for you!


drat that thing is beautiful looking, what kind of Nakiri is that?

cryospam fucked around with this message at Aug 5, 2013 around 17:46

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!


GrAviTy84 posted:

A deba should be single beveled, though, so in practice, it's quite different. Also, debas top out at where gyutos start in terms of length (around 180mm) so the geometry will be quite different when used.

If you really like knifezen videos, check out itasan http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj_bzwy94nk9ZJwGruMz4Zg

Their "western style" Deba are double bevel and get upto 240mm, that's why I mentioned them.

crackhaed
Jan 18, 2005

From out of the basement,
a man doth emerge,
sweat on his brow,
for Efron the urge.


I have a rather tiny deba at 135mm and I really like it for tearing through smaller veg cuts quickly, especially tough stuff like lemongrass.

Chef De Cuisinart
Oct 31, 2010

Brandy does in fact, in my experience, contribute to Getting Down.

cryospam posted:

It seems like they're not available any more in a full set (at least nobody sells a full set) but I picked up few from the Miyabi 7000MC from Henckels and I freaking LOVE them. They're not quite as pretty as many of the handmade Japanese knives, especially some of the etched ones, but they're SUPER sharp and the steel is hardened to a rockwell hardness of 66, far beyond even most premium handmade knives. I got the Santoku, the chef's knife, and the utility knife, I just wish they had a Nakiri in the set. By far the best knives I've ever owned, but I've never spent a TON on kitchen knives.



They were a great upgrade from my Cutco knives I bought when I was 20.

I have a 8in Miyabi guyto. It's not bad, It's a 700D, and it is most definitely not 66 rockwell.

cryospam
Aug 4, 2013



Chef De Cuisinart posted:

I have a 8in Miyabi guyto. It's not bad, It's a 700D, and it is most definitely not 66 rockwell.

The 7000D aren't made form the same steel as the 7000MC series. Also, it unfortunately seems like Henckels discontinued the MC and MCD (which is etched to look pretty) lines that are made of harder ZDP-189, and they are using the softer VG10 steel in their other Miyabi lines including the .

I picked them up because I wanted the amazing durability of the steel. The other Miyabi lines, the Miyabi Pro, the 7000D is VG10 rebadged as CMV60. VG10 isn't bad steel, it is 60 rockwell hardness after all, but the difference is significant.

I wish they had made a few more kinds of knives in the MC series, they are totally amazing, I'd have loved a Nakiri for slicing vegetables.

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!


Yeah Miyabis are actually from a Japanese OEM they bought recently IIRC.

cryospam
Aug 4, 2013



deimos posted:

Yeah Miyabis are actually from a Japanese OEM they bought recently IIRC.

That's a shame, the MC and MCD knives are really nice, but the new lines pale in comparison. They use MUCH softer steel.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


cryospam posted:

No Wave, Any chance you would be willing to sell one of those? I can't seem to find a good borosilicate rod anywhere now that HandAmerican seems to have stopped selling them.
Realistically, mine are kind of poo poo and the reason I've been sitting on it is I don't even know if the rubber's food grade. They're foosball handles, so really they only would be incidentally. I don't think this matters, but I wanted to give the disclaimer. I'd send you one for the cost of shipping, like $7 if you wanted.

martinlutherbling
Mar 27, 2010


How does the Fujiwara FKM line stack up against the Tojiro DP? Price for a 240mm Gyuto is about the same for both.
Also, how is teak as a material for a cutting board? Randomly ended up at Homegoods the other day and found some Mario Bitali boards that caught my attention. Normally chef branded poo poo makes me roll my eyes, but they were big and pretty and cheap.

martinlutherbling fucked around with this message at Aug 10, 2013 around 04:16

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


martinlutherbling posted:

How does the Fujiwara FKM line stack up against the Tojiro DP? Price for a 240mm Gyuto is about the same for both.
Also, how is teak as a material for a cutting board? Randomly ended up at Homegoods the other day and found some Mario Bitali boards that caught my attention. Normally chef branded poo poo makes me roll my eyes, but they were big and pretty and cheap.
Apparently teak dulls power tools extremely fast when cutting through it, so I'd assume the same may be true for knives (it's due to something in the wood called silica). I couldn't find evidence of real a/b testing on using teak cutting boards, but as long as you haven't bought it yet, you might as well avoid it.

I own one, unfortunately, and I feel like the market for selling used cutting boards is small so I haven't bothered reselling it. I only really use it for presentation/serving anyways, and one of the advantages of teak is that it requires less upkeep, so I guess I'm still doing ok at life? I'm trying pretty hard here.

Filboid Studge
Oct 1, 2010
And while they debated the matter among themselves, Conradin made himself another piece of toast.



Teak has like 1.5 % silicon dioxide crystals by weight. That is aka sand/quartz/amethyst. Teak is therefore good for non-slip boat decks and really poo poo for every tool it meets, and your knees if you fall over on it...

cryospam
Aug 4, 2013



No Wave posted:

Realistically, mine are kind of poo poo and the reason I've been sitting on it is I don't even know if the rubber's food grade. They're foosball handles, so really they only would be incidentally. I don't think this matters, but I wanted to give the disclaimer. I'd send you one for the cost of shipping, like $7 if you wanted.

I sent you a PM, I'd totally be up for that, thanks!!

Filboid Studge posted:

Teak has like 1.5 % silicon dioxide crystals by weight. That is aka sand/quartz/amethyst. Teak is therefore good for non-slip boat decks and really poo poo for every tool it meets, and your knees if you fall over on it...

Wow, I never knew why it was such a common deck material for boats. The stuff won't rot if you use teak oil on it too. I spent many summers during my teenage years cleaning & oiling my uncles boat in exchange for the ability to use it to swoon women once in a while.

cryospam fucked around with this message at Aug 14, 2013 around 18:11

PuTTY riot
Nov 16, 2002


I read the OP and everything but I am having trouble figuring out what sharpening stone(s) I should buy. I want something cheap, but large enough to work for all of my kitchen knives. I've been looking around on ebay but everything cheap looks super skinny and not wide enough for a bigger knife. Also, my paring knife has a chipped tip and my chef's knife tip is bent. Are those things I can fix myself or should I toss them/get them fixed by a pro? They're cheap faberware (I think) knives I've had for a number of years.

Stalizard
Aug 11, 2006

Have I got a headache!

Fun Shoe

Skinny isn't as big a deal, if it's long enough. This applies to sharpening stones as well as jokes about what she said.

If you had decent knives, it would be worth taking them to a professional. If you have cheap Farberware knives, it is probably better to get cheap Victorinox/Forschner knives, and learn to use them on the stone. Or, get some pliers and bend your chef's knife tip back, practice on the Farberware, and then get the Victorinox and enjoy having sharp (and sharpenable) decent quality knives for the rest of your life for a pittance.

That is, until the knife bug bites you, then all bets are off.

edit: grammar and spelling

Stalizard fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2013 around 04:37

StealthBus
Jun 18, 2005



Thanks for the recommend on the Tojiro DP's. I have cooked pretty much every day for the last 14 years and have never had an actually sharp knife before. I got the 27cm chefs knife and the 12cm paring knife, chefs knife is probably a little big but whatever. I'm sure I'll get used to it, and I like the idea of being proficient with giant knives.

Any good training resources for knife skills ?

StealthBus fucked around with this message at Aug 19, 2013 around 05:28

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004





so I bought some ornate completely poo poo indonesian cooking knifes during my recent trip there. it was a complete shill of a tourist trap market, but I talked the guy into like $5 for a set of two knifes with a leather bolster thing and they're sort of neat looking so whatever.

they are impossibly sensitive to water/rust, don't hold an edge well - and one of them, a sort of pairing knife, well... for some reason I put it over a gas flame. I don't really recall what I was intending to do, but the knife started to go all rainbow glossy as it heated up. It smoked a little too and smelt weird. The other knife, more like a santoku, didn't have this reaction.

anyone know what in knife manufacturing might cause that kind of rainbow effect if subjected to heat? it seems sort of permanent - but not really like a residue, like when the bottom of a pan gets discolored because you burn oil onto it - it's more like the metal itself has gone rainbow.

Foxrunsecurity
Aug 10, 2008


mindphlux posted:

anyone know what in knife manufacturing might cause that kind of rainbow effect if subjected to heat? it seems sort of permanent - but not really like a residue, like when the bottom of a pan gets discolored because you burn oil onto it - it's more like the metal itself has gone rainbow.

That's surface oxidation, it happens when you heat up mild steel. Sounds like they just knocked knives out of whatever scrap was the cheapest at the time.

Sir Spaniard
Nov 9, 2009



Pair of Gyuto 28cm knives ordered: Let the long wait commence.

Hoping that they get back to me quickly to say they've received the order and a (hopefully shorter than the stated 5 month) time frame.

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004





Foxrunsecurity posted:

That's surface oxidation, it happens when you heat up mild steel. Sounds like they just knocked knives out of whatever scrap was the cheapest at the time.

Is it really? Why would one knife do it, and the other knife not do it? just different batches of steel? It really smelt like some chemical residue burning off the knife, and the otherone didn't have the same smell/wisps of smoke coming off...

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



Sir Spaniard posted:

Pair of Gyuto 28cm knives ordered: Let the long wait commence.

Hoping that they get back to me quickly to say they've received the order and a (hopefully shorter than the stated 5 month) time frame.

What did you order and where did you order from?

Foxrunsecurity
Aug 10, 2008


mindphlux posted:

Is it really? Why would one knife do it, and the other knife not do it? just different batches of steel? It really smelt like some chemical residue burning off the knife, and the otherone didn't have the same smell/wisps of smoke coming off...

Pretty much, different carbon content and/or alloys can keep it from happening until much higher temperatures. As for the smell and smoke it's entirely possible there was some residue from machining or some type of lacquer or clear coat on it.

Sir Spaniard
Nov 9, 2009



GrAviTy84 posted:

What did you order and where did you order from?

28cm Gyuto knives from Moritaka Hamano. I'd sent an enquiry email about a week and a half ago and they're pretty backed up order wise.

I guess they're popular or something.

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kirtar
Sep 11, 2011


If I'm getting a Tojiro DP gyuto, will a steel hone still work or should I get a ceramic for when I inevitably go full sperg?

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