The Kitchen Knife Thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Goons with Spoons > The Kitchen Knife Thread

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

I am far from the most knowledgeable person when it comes to knives and sharpening, and that is why I made this thread! I see it as an opportunity for learning as much as anything.

Knives are probably the most fundamental tool in a kitchen and cooking with sharp knives rather than dull ones turns annoying recipes into really fun ones. It is also, paradoxically, safer, as when you are cutting with a super sharp knife you pretty much know exactly where it's going - where you're pointing it.

We'll divide this into sections.

A.) Very basic types of knives
(note: Gravity84 did an incredible write-up of Japanese knives and how they are different/how they relate to Western knives.)
B.) How to sharpen
C.) Questions

There are many, many different types of knives. For ease of consumption we can break it down into about eight different "types" that you'll commonly find and use in a home kitchen. I will be vastly oversimplifying and mixing different types of knives together, but I'm most interested in constructing a framework for understanding what different knife shapes are for.

For product recommendations, I will only be recommending items in low price and mid price tiers. For high price, there are probably specialty forums that you'll want to read up on because there are dozens of factors you'll probably want to consider that I don't trust myself to weigh (basically, I don't know enough).

A.) Very basic types of knives
The knives below are basically ranked in the order in which I would purchase them. Lots of the pictures are of Japanese knives a.) because they look cool and b.) because I recommend them. The metal is much harder than most of the German steel you get with Wusthof/Henckels, meaning you will have to sharpen them less. They are also generally lighter, which is nice! Obviously there are exceptions.

1.) Chef's Knife

This is the most basic and most commonly-used knife in most peoples' kitchen. It is usually made with a curved blade so that you can do a rocking back-and-forth motion on your cutting board. The Japanese Gyuto fills this role, though there is generally less of a curve to the blade so a different motion is required. It is recommended to get this knife in size 8" or larger - I prefer closer to 10". You can cut more and if you've set up your station nicely the extra size won't get in the way.

Low-price: Victorinox fibrox
Mid-price: Tojiro DP

2.) Paring knife

This is the other important knife to have. If you have a paring knife and a chef's knife, you can prepare pretty much anything. If you are starting out, I would strongly recommending buying a paring knife and a chef's knife and then adjusting your collection accordingly. You can be perfectly happy with a very cheap paring knife, though I do like the Victorinox models. I use this most often to peel onions and shallots, but you can also use them for any task where you don't want to use a chef's knife.

Low-price: Victorinox fibrox
Mid-price: ???

3.) Slicer

This knife is used to cut proteins, and can also be used to fillet fish. It is generally extremely long - the idea is to be able to cut through an entire protein in one stroke. This keeps the cut looking neat and even, and is one of the huge ways that chefs get to be dicks about other chefs' food.

Low-price: ???
Mid-price: Tojiro DP

4.) Deboner

This knife is used to take the bones out of your large proteins. For example, if you have some chicken thighs that you want to debone. The smaller size and sharp tip make it better for scraping the meat off of them bones.

Low-price: Victorinox fibrox

5a.) Santoku

I'm ranking this knife low because you can get by without it - however, it's one of the most commonly used knives in many peoples' kitchens. It's a knife with a flat blade that's specialized for "push-cutting" motions - so rather than rocking you knife on the cutting board like with a chef's knife, you push directly downwards. Popular for doing things like brunoise. Other types of knives can be used for push-cutting, however - the CCK cleaver is the most beloved knife on the forums (probably) and is used for this purpose.

Low-price: ???
Mid-price: Tojiro DP Santoku

5b.) Chinese Cleaver

This one looks really different but it fills the same basic role as the Santoku. You can get by with one or the other (though many people own both). I'd merge the two but that would have been confusing. Really this entry is here for me to recommend the CCK Small Cleaver to you, probably the most popular single knife on the forum. It is large and is great for cutting up crap and then moving it from the cutting board to your pots and pans.

God-tier: CCK Small Cleaver (it's $40)

6.) Meat cleaver

This is a very thick knife used for hacking through bones. You'll damage your other knives if you try to cut through very thick bones, so a thick knife with a larger angle at the tip is useful for this. Useful for doing things like breaking apart chicken carcasses for stock. The CCK cleaver is probably inappropriate for this purpose - you'll want something heavier and thicker.

Low-price: Not sure.

7.) Flexible fish filleting knife

In western kitchens, it's very common to fillet fish with a very flexible knife. Sometimes these knives look almost comically thin. It allows you to bend the knife to better travel along the bones of the fish and leave less meat on the carcass.

Low-price: Victorinox fibrox

8.) Serrated bread knife

You probably already own one of these, and it's probably good enough. You want it to be long so that you can cut more bread with each stroke, but the sharpness really doesn't matter. Definitely go cheap on this one. The idea is that the teeth make it easier to sink into and cut the bread.

If someone has any brands that they particularly like, let me know, but whatever's popular on Amazon is probably fine.

9.) Smooth honing rod

This is not a knife, but you will want it. When you have a sharp knife, the "edge" is a very thin piece of metal on the very edge of the knife that, depending on the hardness of the metal, can be easily deformed. Most honing rods you see are rough, as the manufacturers expect that the user won't actually ever sharpen their knifes. Thus, they expect the honing rod to be used as a sharpener. I strongly recommend against this - the edge won't be very good. A smooth honing rod that is harder than your knives will do what honing should do - align the blade - without scraping metal off of your knife. If your knives are especially hard, you will want to consider a ceramic honing rod instead.

This is a very basic overview. There are many, many, many other types of knives but I tried to boil it down for newbie users. I will obviously add or modify information as is necessary. I need some help on the recommended brands.

B.) Sharpening

This is a highly contentious issue and why knife threads threads often die. So please keep an open mind!

Sharpening is a hobby in its own right that people dedicate years to.

So what should you buy/do?

If you want to learn further about it, I strongly, strongly recommend reading this:
http://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/

To simplify purchasing decisions, this was deimos' post in the product recommendation thread:

deimos posted:

How much do you want to spend?

Cheapest: (~$10)
Pros: Very Cheap, does a convex grind
Cons: does a convex grind
- Buy a cheap FLAT mousepad
- Apply high grit wet sanding sandpaper
- Watch a few videos on sharpening
- More info

Cheap: (~$30)
Pros: Cheap
Cons: Usually small stone so it's harder to do larger knives properly
- Get two cheap waterstones (one 200-400 one 600+ grit) (Norton makes decent ones)
- Watch a few videos on sharpening
- Explanation: Eventually, if you're doing it right, water stones will bow in the middle, the reason I told you to buy two stones instead of one two sider is that you can use one stone to level the other, like magic.

Also Cheap: (~$30)
Pros: Cheap
Cons: Usually small stone so it's harder to do larger knives properly
- Get two grits of cheap oilstones (one 200-400 one 1000+ grit), it can be the same stone with two sides. (Look for Norton)
- Watch a few videos on sharpening
- Explanation: Whenever they use water in the video you use Honing oil at a much reduced amount.

Mid-Range (~$70) (HC < 60 knives only, so no VG-10+ stainless, no carbon steel knives)
Pros: HUUUUGE stones so it's easy to get even results, DuoSharps last pretty much forever, DuoSharps don't bow like waterstones
Cons: DON'T DO THIS ON HARD KNIVES, if you apply too much pressure you will eat a shitload of metal off your knife
- Get a DMT DuoSharp Fine/Extra-Fine (link)
- Watch a few videos on sharpening
- Watch a video on how to sharpen specifically with it with it on youtube
- Bonus: if you ever need to reshape a knife just buy the coarse/extra coarse DuoSharp, it gobbles metal like a champ
- Bonus2: If you want to get an ever finer edge on poo poo (you don't really need to go beyond DMT extra fine) and you get a waterstone, DMTs can be used to level other waterstones perfectly every time
- Explanation: The reason you don't want to do it on really hard knives is that the knives have a tendency to gobble the diamond from the DMT plate and they embed on the edge, I mean I guess diamond coated edge on a knife could be a good thing (it isn't).

Higher end (~120)
Pros: Decent sized stones, fairly long lasting
Cons: Expensive, don't drop these
- Buy two Shapton Glass stones (220 or 320 and 1000 will give you a ridiculously sharp knife)
- Buy a stone holder (generic works, the Shapton one is neat and heavy but unnecessary)
- Watch a few videos on sharpening

This is a hobby and you wan to sharpen for everyone you know: (~$250)
Pros: EASY AS gently caress
Cons: You don't actually get to practice sharpening, this is easy mode
- Get an Edge Pro Set with either Shaptons or Choseras (you can also get a fake edge pro on ebay)
- Read the manual.
- Find videos online on how to use it.

This is your hobby and you sharpen for everyone you know, super sperglord edition: (~$500+)
Pros: You can be the spergiest of sharpeners
Cons: You have to know how to sharpen before you use this
- Get a couple low grits of good quality stones (see above)
- Get a high quality high grit japanese water stone
- Sharpen that fucker
- Bonus: If you look at your knife wrong IT WILL CUT YOU.

edit: It's me, I'm the sperglord sharpener.
edit oilstone edition: Upped the grit requirements for oilstones

However, this probably makes you want to ask a lot of questions, so again I strongly implore you to read this link:
http://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/

At the same time, the most important thing is that you sharpen your knives at all - be that on a Chef's Choice 110 or a Japanese waterstone. Most debate online is a war over the last 20% of sharpness - the first 80% is fairly easily attainable and you will enjoy your sharp knives!

C.) Questions

Q: How should I wash my knives?
A: By hand, with a sponge. Do not put in the dishwasher - the agitation of the water will make the blades get dull very fast.

Q: What cutting board should I use?
A: Plastic is fine. If you want to use wood, end-grain is better as it is softer and will dull your knives less. Avoid glass, marble, and bamboo.

Q: How should I store my knives?
A: Ideally, on this guy. But if you have kids/want to put your knifes away keep them in a drawer/knife roll/toolbox with plastic protectors like the ultimate edge guard.

Q: How often should I sharpen?
A: It depends on the knife, how much you use it, and how soft the metal is. If you have very hard knives you can just send them to a professional sharpener once a year and hone periodically. You won't really be able to answer this question until you've handled a very sharp knife, as you won't know what to be expecting.

Thanks for reading! I will edit this OP as things develop.

Also, please post pictures of your cool knives if you have cool knives.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jul 3, 2013

# ¿ Jun 29, 2013 17:03

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# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 00:20

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Harry Potter on Ice posted:

Thoughts on this knife and why it is so cheap?
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/henckels-zwilling-pure/hollow-edge-wide-chefs-knife-p129325?dow=5

It's an oddball length, and those divots on the side don't do much for you. You'd do better getting the Victorinox Fibrox 8-inch or 10-inch for the same price.

Henckels doesn't hold an edge very well, and the knives are extremely thick, making the knife heavier and more difficult to slide right into things (sideways, especially). Prices on knives can be extremely deceptive vs. their actual utility, especially for the big German manufacturers (which are, by and large, quite expensive for what you get).

The thing that really bugs me about those knives is the bottom. What's supposed to happen to the bottom of the knife as you sharpen it and the blade recesses? It makes no sense. The rocking motion will get hosed and the knife will be useless (this is less of an issue for boning knives etc. as you will not be rocking the blade on the cutting board).

It's boring to say Victorinox Fibrox over and over, but their bang for buck cannot be beaten (except maybe by the CCK small cleaver).

No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jun 29, 2013

# ¿ Jun 29, 2013 18:20

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

I don't know - you could get:

Tojiro DP paring, utility, chef's knife - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpsakn17.html ($150)
Tojiro DP petty ($40)
Tojiro DP santoku or CCK cleaver ($70 or $50)
any old bread knife ($20)
ceramic rod ($30)

for less than half the price - and I haven't met anyone who prefers Global to Tojiro (and if you do, I apologize - I don't mean any offense)

You could use the rest of the budget to get a Tojiro DP slicer and a set of 9.47 table knives (for truly baller steak knives worthy of hannibal lecter)

# ¿ Jul 2, 2013 14:54

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Chef De Cuisinart posted:

I'll do a write up on carbon care and upkeep, and a few videos when I have time later this week. Sharpening, what thinning is and how to do it, and some knife skill stuff that isn't exactly common knowledge.

Oh man please do. It is humid as fck in Boston and my moritaka is giving me a headache. It's covered in mustard right now.

porcellus posted:

Please take out Deimos' review. It's not that they're bad suggestions, it's that it reads like HERE'S WHAT TO DO OK while leaving out pertinent context and information.

Sandpaper is a great alternative to a water stone. Buy nice sandpaper though. I recommend eagle. The resin and alum oxide on those are superior quality. My theory about why sandpaper isn't more popular in the kitchen is because people aren't cleaning their sandpaper with rubber and it gets loaded with swarf (A drill bit is fluted to remove chips, if it weren't there, that drill isn't going anywhere no matter how sharp it is). Swarf removal is important.

If you've got the budget for it, buy a stationary belt sander or grinder, that's how guys who make knives remove the metal stock from their blank in the first place. Actually forget that, that's how the rest of the world sharpens their HSS.

You can mark an angle right on the rest or clamp a guide rail to it. A belt sander can be bought at Harbor Freight for 30 bucks with a coupon. Sandpaper belt grit stops at 400, which leaves the edge jagged, but is fine for most people. For reference, metalworkers grind their lathe bits on 120 grit grinding wheels and surface grind accurately within a thousandth of an inch.

Sandpaper sheets though, can go up to 8000. I've seen 30,000 grit wet stones. Here's a helpful chart http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a250/azjoe/NortonGrit-sizeChart.jpg

The sandpaper stuff is really cool, but I'm having trouble getting started with it. Basically, if I wanted to do the sandpaper setup - how would I set it up? Do I attach it to a board somehow and use it like a waterstone? And how often should I remove the swarf - after I'm done, or in the middle of sharpening, as well?

The belt sander thingy is neat, but man it is scary. Kind of curious what your setup is.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jul 3, 2013

# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 05:09

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Steve Yun posted:

Chinese cleaver entry conspicuously absent!

Fixed... What a shameful error to have made.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 13:15

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

deimos posted:

Faux pros (the fake version of the edge-pro you can get on ebay) are not horribly priced and stones for it go fairly high (30k), I personally don't use it but they seem decent if you just can't do a proper edge, but you are being that guy, when I originally made the post I made it with the price for edge-pro instead of faux pro.

I do agree about the tone of my post being wrong for the OP though.

I'll consider how to work it. I found it incredibly helpful as it showed many different examples of how people sharpen, and made it much easier to learn sharpening theory by applying it to several different methods of practice. It also weighed trade-offs, which is my favorite way to approach stuff like this. Will consider tweaking/reframing.

mmartinx posted:

I'm sure there are much better knives out there for an 1/8th of the price, my recommendation was just in case there's anyone out there looking for a decent, everything included set with 6 steak knives.

Sure - I guess if I wanted people to get three things out of this thread, I'd like to optimize three variables: knife sharpness, knife cost, and time spent. I'm interested in education (which is certainly necessary) insofar as it leads to sharper knives, smarter purchasing decisions, and time saved.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 19:36

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Paring knives are the proper steak knife, traditional steak knives are inefficient at their designed task and are more expensive.

As for the EdgePro, iirc it can't do lower than 15 degrees, so that cuts out 3 of my knives. I think it's a cool system, but it is way too expensive, and probably doesn't work well with some knife designs. Just get a nice 2-3in wide waterstone and learn how to use it.

I got an oilstone a while back and I just had no idea what the gently caress. There are so many points of failure - are you consistent enough? Is your angle really correct? Is that a burr, or am I imagining things? Is this knife actually sharp? Am I pushing too hard, or not hard enough? I honestly just gave up last time and got a chef's choice because I couldn't deal with it. I know it's very simple once you know these things - there are just so many potential variables that you don't know what to ignore and what to pay attention to that it's very difficult to get an intuitive grasp of the process without having someone teach you.

I completely agree that hand-sharpening is the "best" - it's just really, really helpful to use a more controlled environment first.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2013 17:56

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

breakfall87 posted:

awesome poo poo

a.) You are super cool - there is no such thing as too spergy here
b.) I clearly have to consider revising my stance on bread knives
c.) would love a pic of your little katana

What I love about your approach is that you're not trying to do as much work as possible - you only own three stones! So fackin cool. Put in an order for my Shapton 4k today so that I don't have to think about stones ever again (this brings me to 320, 1000, 4000)

deimos posted:

Just took a look at this link (it was Global so I didn't pay much attention to it) and noticed one thing: The drat steak knives are not serrated.

Unless you use paper/plastic dinnerware those knives are gonna need a weekly sharpening, as a general rule you want serrated edges for regular use steak knives (I mean you could get some really fancy non-serrated for your really fancy parties and have your butler sharpen them after every use) but a smooth edge on glass is a recipe for blunt edges.

Begin holy war about serrated vs. smooth edge on a piece of meat you're about to chew in your mouth in 3... 2... 1...

Serrated is definitely the correct choice - terrible to think that I can no longer justify buying the knives that brought me so much joy in Paris, the 9.47. It is a cruel world.

Maybe when I have a house, butler, and dinner parties I will consider the purchase. Until then, will have to get some Laguiole serrated instead.

Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Paring knives are the proper steak knife, traditional steak knives are inefficient at their designed task and are more expensive.

The problem is that paring knives dull against porcelain the same way that any non-serrated knife will.

Realistically, I never serve steak whole anyways - I love the presentation of it cut up on a wooden cutting board. Probably would be nice for chicken breast, though, probably the largest protein I serve intact.

If anyone sees a deal on authentic made-in-france wooden-handled laguiole serrated knives, let me know!

No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jul 6, 2013

# ¿ Jul 6, 2013 16:00

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

breakfall87 posted:

The Honsho looks really nice, and appears to be thinner than the Tojiro. I know a couple of people with Richmond blades, and they both seemed pretty disappointed

Fujiwaras, Kikiuichis, and Suisins are all nice slicers and from what I hear, Fujiwaras are super easy to sharpen.

I wouldn't recommend something between one-sided and 50-50 bevels. I jacked my MAC up not knowing, and it's not something you want to trial and error with (at least I'm not comfortable with it).

Personally, I would recommend a Konosuke. chefknivestogo.com offers them in several different lengths and steels, and if they don't carry exactly what you want, you can call up and get a custom one done like I did.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowh2st27su.html

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowa271.html

I just bought this one in the HD model last week in 300mm. I am a home cook and I cook lots of large proteins. I expect greatness!

I also realize that the Moritaka was a mistake. The blade's wrong for me - I much prefer French style blades. I'm planning on replacing it so if anyone's interested in a nearly new Moritaka 240mm on deep discount with almost all of the black finish taken off of it, let me know! (Or if anyone knows a good place to sell such a thing...)

BTW, that black finish poo poo was useless. Does nothing to prevent rust. So I took nevr-dull to the whole knife and did three 8-hour coats of mustard. No longer rusting. Planning on doing the same to my CCK cleaver.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 00:35

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

GrAviTy84 posted:

kurouchi finish? It's purely aesthetic, yes. I was interested in taking that moritaka from you until you said that you removed it.. :/ How deep of a discount?

What do you mean by you "prefer french style blades"? Do you mean french style handles? A gyuto is a western style blade.

edit for emphasis, your post seriously breaks my heart to hear you did that to a moritaka and that you're going to do it to your CCK.

like, I read it 30 min ago and I had to reread it 3 times to make sure I read it correctly.

It was definitely an accident the first time (with the Moritaka)... My issue is that the nevr-dull is so so so so good at getting the rust out and it takes the finish with it. I honestly see these things as tools (which is why I want to get rid of the Moritaka instead of keeping it for fun).

...bad OP.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 01:12

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

GrAviTy84 posted:

if it's the handle that annoys you you should just get a Tojiro DP or similar. It won't be as superspergysharp capable as the Moritaka but it sounds like you were having a hard time with upkeep of carbon anyway.

A few other steels that might interest you and are a bit more midrange like the moritaka (Tojiro is entry level stuff) are Gingami #3 (Hitachi stainless) and the Powdered Tool Steels like ZDP-189. I've never used either of these so I can't say from experience but a lot of people on the internet really like them, lol. They're supposedly carbon steel level hardness with stainless steel care requirements.

Edit: I guess powdered tool steel blades are actually well into the "high end" range of prices fwiw.

No, I liked the handle quite a lot. I just want a curvier blade. I guess it's the "profile" of the blade that bothered me?

I've already got the replacement lined up.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jul 9, 2013

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 01:53

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Chemmy posted:

Gyuto I suppose. I'm using an 8" chef's knife now, probably would like something longer, don't care about material it'll hardly be the fussiest thing I own.

If it were me I'd consider this one during my search:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowh2wa27.html

It comes in 240mm as well.

I've never used it, but it's one that I've seen come up a lot on other sites when this question comes up so I guess I'm just making you aware of it.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2013 13:35

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Bag of Sun Chips posted:

I'm not seeing anywhere where it says it's for left handed people.

GrAviTy84 posted:

It's a 50/50 bevel with a symmetrical handle, it works just as well for lefties as it does for righties. Unless you actually want a D handled asymmetric bevel knife, that is.

Basically, just to further explain, there are generally two factors that will make a knife left or right-handed - having an asymetrical handle (a D-handle, for instance, where the round part goes in your palm and the flat part faces away from it), or having a blade where the bevels are asymmetrical, ie, one side of the blade is sharpened more acutely than the other. In the case of most knives, neither of these cases are true, meaning they are appropriate for both left and right handed individuals.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2013 18:49

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Bob_McBob posted:

http://www.theboardsmith.com/

Incredibly annoying that Google's being so coy, but how much do these run? I bought the Cook's Illustrated recommended proteak before this thread was made so I'm set but I'm curiouus.

EDIT: I got it before I started 'sperging but apparently teak can dull knives a little. I mean, it's more a theoretical thing than anything people have routinely empirically observed, but I'd avoid teak if you're buying a new cutting board just because you can. I'm probably going to hold onto mine for a while though, because a cutting board isn't one of those things that's easy to re-sell.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jul 11, 2013

# ¿ Jul 11, 2013 00:17

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Chef De Cuisinart posted:

http://www.amazon.com/San-Jamar-CBG...words=san+jamar

Under 20bux, and I use these daily at work, so I can attest to the high quality.

When I worked in a kitchen, some people had these neat rubber rings that they'd put under the cutting boards so that they wouldn't slip. Felt nicer than having to wet a paper towel every time. Anyone know these/where I can get them?

# ¿ Jul 11, 2013 01:35

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

GrAviTy84 posted:

is this it? http://www.amazon.com/San-Jamar-CBM1318-Saf-T-Grip-Board-Mate/dp/B0001MSCKM

I usually use a moist papertowel but this looks pretty good I might get it.

also, lol @ the 2 star review

They were actually literally orange o-shaped rings, probably three inches in diameter. I'm assuming they were french in origin and are probably one of those weird things that are widely available there but not at all here.

These would actually probably do the job very nicely:
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/weck-replacement-rubber-ring/

Though slightly wider circles would work better for me.

EDIT: Found it! Searched "canning", and indeed, made in France.
http://www.surlatable.com/product/P...1701&origin=pla

Basically, put one on each corner of your cutting board and you're good. Though you can get by with 3.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 11, 2013

# ¿ Jul 11, 2013 02:08

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Steve Yun posted:

Haha, jar gaskets?

Yeah. For some reason it's one of those things you never put together when you see it out of context for six months straight.

Anyways, I can strongly recommend these as temporary feet for any slippy cutting board. If this is my contribution to internet cooking, I will be forever proud.

I ended up going with this model:
http://www.amazon.com/Bormioli-Rocco-Fido-Gaskets-Bag/dp/B0001BMYIE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373505424&sr=8-1&keywords=fido+gasket

I'll let you know how it goes.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2013 02:18

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Got my replacement for the Moritaka - Masamoto KS Gyuto 270mm.

It's 270mm. If you look at the moritaka above and this knife, you'll see that the shape of the knife is different - I much prefer this shape, as I'm more accustomed to the French mode of cutting poo poo.

Plus it's real big.

That wooden sheathy thing is called a Saya, and they're kind of expensive and silly but they're nice for carbon knives because, being wood, they absorb some of the invisible moisture that remains after wiping the knife. I think that's the idea, anyways.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Jul 27, 2013

# ¿ Jul 27, 2013 13:29

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Apologies for the problem with the knife. I may have a make-up gift for you.

Realistically, the reason I got rid of it is because there's this dude boar_d_laze who posts on some other knife forums who seems like a sick genius and I just decided to do everything he said.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2013 22:56

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

I made a few borosilicate honing rods.

I was thinking I'd send you that and you could keep it and you could tell me if it's all hosed up. I have a few extras, just kind of curious to get another perspective on how it turned out and I don't really know any other spergy cooks. I mean that as a compliment.

Just let me know if you (gravity) are interested, and I'll send it off.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jul 31, 2013

# ¿ Jul 31, 2013 00:22

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

TATPants posted:

You actually made glass honing rods? From raw silica and other stuff? If so, I would really like to see your oven setup

Scott808 posted:

Can't you just buy the premade borosilicate rod and have someone cut it down to size?

Yeah... you can only buy pyrex/borosilicate rods in increments of 60" but I found someone who could cut it into five pieces. So it's that and foosball parts.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2013 14:11

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Sir Spaniard posted:

So I bought these after reading about it, to try at work. Wonders never cease. Such an ingenious use of those things. Did the guy who introduced you wash them I'm the dishwasher or just by hand? I imagine they'd wear out over time through a professional dishwasher?

By hand, if I recall correctly, primarily because people didn't want to lose theirs. I was in France so we were probably a little less thorough, but usually there was a point at which we'd fill up a bucket with soap and hot water, throw in stuff at a station that wasn't knives, and then rinse off/dry the stuff. Sometimes the gaskets made it in there.

I think some of them were a little cracked from going through the dishwasher a few times, but realistically they should be able to take a decent amount of abuse given what they're used for. Honestly they could probably stand to be beaten up a little bit - they'll probably get softer and rougher, and thus more grippy.

So glad you tried it out! The white ones I linked in my old post worked out well, but I think the orange color is prettier and you're less likely to lose track of it.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2013 19:25

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Don't clean it, it's good for the patina.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2013 22:46

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

I dunno. I'd take a petty over the nakiri as the gyuto can do most anything the nakiri can and you can use the petty for deboning tasks. Then, if you don't mind not having a dedicated slicer, then you'd be pretty much set.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2013 20:34

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

martinlutherbling posted:

The thing is, I've never had to debone anything and if the need comes up I think a cheap Victorinox will do. Mostly I chop, slice, and dice. Is there really anything a Nakiri does better than a Gyuto then?

I guess it's personal preference - I mean the blade shapes are different, so you'll use different strokes, but you can perform the same tasks. I strongly prefer the western curve. It's not like the nakiri's totally redundant, as I imagine that it is better for push-cutting, but realistically I don't do a ton of brunoise. Deboning pork shoulder, however, is a mission critical task for me.

What's great about the CCK small cleaver as an alternative to the nakiri is how big it is and how much diced onion you can move around at a time.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2013 13:51

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

martinlutherbling posted:

Well I've used and loved Chinese cleavers before, but mostly the random Chinatown $12 specials. My only worry with the CCK is upkeep, not with myself but with my roommates. Can't tell you how many times I've come home to my cast iron pan filled with water, and I'm the only one who ever oils it too. Don't wanna risk that with any really decent blade.

The CCK was built for abuse - you could ruin that blade a hundred times and you'd still have metal you could take off to sharpen it. It's the same price as that Tojiro anyways, so sort of a moot point.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2013 16:30

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

cryospam posted:

No Wave, Any chance you would be willing to sell one of those? I can't seem to find a good borosilicate rod anywhere now that HandAmerican seems to have stopped selling them.

Realistically, mine are kind of poo poo and the reason I've been sitting on it is I don't even know if the rubber's food grade. They're foosball handles, so really they only would be incidentally. I don't think this matters, but I wanted to give the disclaimer. I'd send you one for the cost of shipping, like $7 if you wanted.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 01:46

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

martinlutherbling posted:

How does the Fujiwara FKM line stack up against the Tojiro DP? Price for a 240mm Gyuto is about the same for both.
Also, how is teak as a material for a cutting board? Randomly ended up at Homegoods the other day and found some Mario Bitali boards that caught my attention. Normally chef branded poo poo makes me roll my eyes, but they were big and pretty and cheap.

Apparently teak dulls power tools extremely fast when cutting through it, so I'd assume the same may be true for knives (it's due to something in the wood called silica). I couldn't find evidence of real a/b testing on using teak cutting boards, but as long as you haven't bought it yet, you might as well avoid it.

I own one, unfortunately, and I feel like the market for selling used cutting boards is small so I haven't bothered reselling it. I only really use it for presentation/serving anyways, and one of the advantages of teak is that it requires less upkeep, so I guess I'm still doing ok at life? I'm trying pretty hard here.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 13:47

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

GrAviTy84 posted:

More real estate for slicing which is important for more fragile things so that you can cut in one swoop instead of changing directions. More real estate just for prep, you can prep more in one go with a larger blade than you can with a small one. A larger blade feels more stable to me, too. It's not going to be affected by the thing you're cutting very much. If you need something small and nimble, that's what the paring knife is for. Chef's knife is for everything else. Don't get a blade that is longer than your cutting board though.

I've been loving my HH stainless steel petty - something that doesn't get repped much here but few professionals I know go without a petty.

Agreed on getting a larger knife, though. Is it a big deal if it's longer than the cutting board? It doesn't really matter unless there's stuff behind your board.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2013 02:00

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

mindphlux posted:

I mean...

they are pretty lovely knives.

I'd still recommend them to anyone looking for a first 'good' 'knife', and I've bought several as cheap presents for people who I know would just appreciate anything sharper than the butter knives they've been using since their college days - but they're still flimsy, cheap, (decent) lovely knives.

not saying a $125 dollar knife is lightyears ahead of a $30 victorinox for most people, but there is qualitatively a big difference between the two. Also, internet bandwagons can be pretty annoying - so given his 'serious eats' thing is his soapbox, I can understand raging against the machine in this case.

My understanding is that they're the best knife at the price point. And significantly better than 98% of the knives that people in America use. Isn't it likely that it would constitute a huge step up for almost anyone who buys them?

I guess it's just a weird definition of "lovely". But you could argue that it hasn't really hit the point of diminishing returns the same way a Tojiro DP has.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2013 13:43

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

hoshkwon posted:

For the victorinox knives, I think it's more of a reflection on how many overpriced lovely knives there are out there rather than how good the knives are. Victorinox sets a base standard: this is how good a knife at a -$40 price point should be. Not those lovely henckels you can get at target.

That being said, it absolutely gets circle-jerked all the time. Sometimes it gets to the point where people will say something like "buying a more expensive knife is a waste of money", "this beats most >$100 knives out there".

That's just not true.

Additionally, my relatively new victorinox 10-inch slips off a tomato every time.

By count most >$100 knives out there are Henckels/Wusthof/similar, so I'd actually be inclined to agree with the statement that it beats most >$100 knives.

It is remarkable how much better it is than similarly priced options I've dealt with. Of course it should inspire excitement! It is something to be happy over!

No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Dec 5, 2013

# ¿ Dec 5, 2013 19:26

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

SopWATh posted:

Is that personal preference or something specific about the knives? Are you talking about the $160 "Forged" knife or the $30 fibrox things?

I get that "knives are personal preference" is a thing, but I cannot imagine preferring the Henckels to the Victorinox. It is incredibly thick, it is super heavy, and the steel is very soft. The handle's nicer, but that doesn't make up for it.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2013 01:33

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

The bolster alone makes the Henckels/Wusthofs knives (that have those bolsters) a bad buy in my book. I simply cannot recommend a knife with such a bizarre oversight like that.

If someone prefers Henckels/Wusthof who am I to say otherwise? But given that most people probably want lighter, sharper, cheaper knives without the weird design flaw I don't really see why I'd recommend them to someone who hasn't used them before.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Dec 11, 2013

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 01:57

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Steve Yun posted:

What's wrong with the bolsters? I have a Henckels chef knife and over my time learning to cook I've come to the realization that yeah, it's too thick, but I love the bolster.

I think I used the wrong word. I mean the lippy thing on the bottom of the blade that makes it hard to sharpen/makes it so that the knife doesn't wear down evenly so the shape gets weird.

Though I'm especially biased because I had a chef's choice sharpening system and this was an even more annoying problem.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Dec 11, 2013

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 02:48

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

ma i married a tuna posted:

I do still agree with the Tojiro as a default recommendation for someone looking to buy a good, well-priced first kitchen knife; I just don't think it's a real upgrade if you have a decent German already.

If you want a lighter knife with a thinner profile that holds an edge better, it is... if not, I guess not?

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 14:05

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

revdrkevind posted:

Having said all that, is it really worth it to recommend stepping up in paring knives? I got the Victorinox parer in a combo pack, and I like it even more than the chef's knife. Admittedly all I tend to pull it out for is rough chopping garlic or... paring potatoes or whatever, but it's become my best buddy. Maybe that's just my inner redneck being so excited that a cheap knife does a decent job. The handle is small for my bear-mitts, but I find it's a good shape to wedge in my fingers and go to town, never had an issue. Seems like the perfect compliment to a good starter knife.

The whole high-end paring knife thing is something fairly unique to this thread. I personally agree with you, and I own a Dojo paring knife. Maybe I'm crazy and the only reason high-end paring knives aren't more of a thing is because professional cooks can't afford to use something so expensive that has such a high risk of getting lost. But I'd rather use my petty over my paring for all knife-on-chopping-board uses.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jan 8, 2014

# ¿ Jan 7, 2014 13:06

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

rockcity posted:

I've used that as my plastic board for 6 years, it's held up very well..

I prefer getting one that has a juice canal on one side and no canal on the other and using these:

http://www.amazon.com/Bormioli-Rocco-Fido-Gaskets-Bag/dp/B0001BMYIE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389454995&sr=8-1&keywords=gasket

as portable cutting board legs.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2014 16:44

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

pogothemonkey0 posted:

I'm trying to select a gift for my parents and I know some knives are a good idea. They've been using my victorinox 8" chef's knife and discovered just how horrible their knives truly are in comparison. They must have bought a 10 piece set like 10 years ago and have never had them sharpened.

I need to pick out a chef's, paring, and possibly a utility knife. My parents would definitely want western knives that look nicer than victorinox. That said, they definitely need to be ergonomic and functional. I know they like the feel of the victorinox handle but I have a feeling that anything much thinner would be a problem.

I guess I'm looking at Henckels on Amazon and their prices seem to be all over the place. They have so many different lines (Twin Professional vs Twin Four Star II) and it's hard to get a sense of how they are different and if they're worth it. I'm not looking to spend a fortune, but it is important that they at least look nicer than the fibrox line (so like, full tang, functional western handle) and can hold an edge for a long time.

Do Tojiro over Henckels if Victorinox is too ugly.

The standard german knives won't hold an edge as long.

# ¿ May 4, 2014 19:09

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

SubG posted:

This is actually a complex question, as steel composition is just one part of the overall equation. Two edges made of the same steel but given different heat treatments might perform more differently than two edges made from similar but different steels. Anyway.

When you're looking at very high hardness steels, most of the stainless variants will be ones with a lot of carbides. This, as a general matter, will improve wear resistance but produce a less smooth edge surface than a comparable carbon steel.

Carbon steels also generally have better toughness than stainless steels of the same hardness. But again, asterisk asterisk blah blah blah holy war on bladeforums commences.

In purely practical terms you're better off worrying about how comfortable a kitchen knife is in your hand than any bullshit involving the theoretical performance of the steel. Because unless you're the loving samurai chef or some poo poo you're never going to find yourself in any situation where the corner case special circumstances argument for one blade steel over another is more important than how comfortable you are using it. Which you'll be noticing all the loving time.

Practically I regret not just getting high hardness stainless steel for most of my knives because I'm really very lazy and they're totally sharp enough.

# ¿ May 5, 2014 17:02

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# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 00:20

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Stalizard posted:

From the product recommendation thread:

I got a carbon steel K-Sabatier because I'm an rear end in a top hat. Seriously. I'm a giant pedantic dick, and among the reasons I got the Sabatier is that because to me it just seemed Correct. I have a giant soft spot for anything that claims to be The Original, and when I decided to learn how to cook I learned how to make French food thanks to a French guy. So it makes me happy to have what is at least allegedly an approximation of the classic French knife.

I know that the Japanese knives have better stats, and I respect that. I also like that they mostly follow the traditional French blade profile (especially when precedent dictates that the Japanese tend to skew German). Some of those RC scores are just bonkers; I won't speak ill of Japanese knives. If you prefer them, I don't have an objective argument against it.

I just like my Sabatier better. I've been a Knife Jerk since forever, and I don't mind that it's down a few Rockwell points, or that the steel has been described as "1080-ish?". It doesn't take very long to touch up the edge. I don't even have to do it as frequently as I thought I would. I just love the feel, the balance, the blade profile - my only regret is that I couldn't find a super old vintage one from a reliable place.

Anyway, that's why nobody mentions Sabatiers. The only things going for them are the traditional French blade profile (which the Japanese do), and that some people insist that GENERIC CARBON STEEL is better than GENERIC STAINLESS STEEL (which the Japanese do better than anybody (both kinds of steel, seriously they're pretty on point)).

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get one and use it forever and love it, because they're the greatest.

Very few gyutos have the same profile as the Sab. I like the Sab profile too. I should really edit the OP to talk more about the importance of profile in chef's knives specifically.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:27 on May 8, 2014

# ¿ May 7, 2014 23:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Goons with Spoons > The Kitchen Knife Thread

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