LARP: Pretending to be Elves in Forests

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > LARP: Pretending to be Elves in Forests

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Apparently there was enough interest over in the How Not To Run A Game Business thread that people wanted to talk a little bit more about general LARP/LRP/Lajv/Playing Woods Dress-Up that isn't related to the WoD Storyteller systems. I figure this is a good enough place to discuss the whole broad field, as it is one of the most pathetically nerdy activities that anyone could ever get involved in.

:siren:

As god-drat hilarious as it is, I'd rather not deal with some of the horrendous internet drama generated by some of the LARP groups with a larger internet presence. If you're going to mock a particular system/group/person, don't drag that poo poo here. If you want to point out flaws, give valid critiques - point out why rules are lovely, where costumes are failing, or simply allow the insanity to speak for itself. There is a lot of stupid out there :siren:

If you're looking for WoD LARP, you have your own thread here. This is a thread that's a little more focused on fantasy/sci-fi/post-apoc/etc games, although you're free to let us know how nerdy we are for dressing like medieval peasants to go beat up tabard-orcs for the weekend.

Okay, now that I've gotten that little warning over with, we may as well talk about LARP!

What the hell is LARP/LRP/Lajv/Various Other Words?
Larp is an abbreviation for Live Action Role-Play(ing). The others are regional variants you might see. At its core, LARP is based on a combination of playing pretend in the woods and taking those complicated game systems (such as Dungeons and Dragons) out into the woods to play.

Unfortunately, it's also about as generic as you could possibly get. This is a forum for "Traditional Games", which ends up encompassing a whole slew of mechanically distinct but thematically similar-ish things. LARP is similarly diffuse. Here's some of the more common terms for various games and genres.

Combat game: Used by folks in the US to describe Belegarth, Dagorhir, Amtgard, and (rarely) by some SCA folks to describe the combat events. In these games, roleplaying is generally minimal, combat is the main focus, and there are really stringent safety regulations (in part due to and part due to the nature and focus of the events). While broadly falling within LARP, many of those involved will say that they're not LARPers. This is perfectly acceptable - people can choose to define it as more of a sport, and while some folks adopt the label of LARPer, others do not.
Parlour LARP: On the opposite end of the spectrum, parlour LARP de-emphasizes combat to an extreme degree - most interactions are either RP-based or stat-based, with combat being a rare feature. Many Nordic LARPs are designed around this style, although there are some differences. Cthulhu Live! is a good system for this, designed around Call of Cthulhu games.
Full Immersion LARP: Called by a variety of names (360 degree experience, "Always-On" game), these types of games emphasize staying in character, representing everything physically, and making sure that everything at the site fits with the game world. This is mostly used to describe fantasy games, and tends to be somewhat more prevalent in Europe than the US, although it is currently gaining ground across the pond.
Nordic LARP: A bit of a unique beast, Nordic LARP tends to emphasize immersion, careful character construction, writing manifestos about the genre, and exploring emotions. Half of the time, it seems more like performance art when people describe it to you. They have an annual convention, Knutpunkt, where they talk about the theory of LARP, invent words you can use to better discuss vague concepts, and otherwise be pretentious as gently caress.
American LARP: Generally used online as a derogatory reference to what is seen as the "typical" American game - poor costuming, weapons made primarily of duct tape, an over-emphasis on levels and magic versus the actual skill of the player, and a whole host of other problems. Generally, everyone has an opinion about it, but the people who scream the loudest haven't actually seen a game like this. It can be stupid and fun if you don't take it seriously - while I won't defend the mechanics of NERO/Laire/SOLAR/Alliance, I will say that people have fun with them and that they are actually looking for a game that does just what they do.
Persistent World Game: A LARP that is played continuously throughout the year - oftentimes, these are modern-day games, intrigue-based, or related to offshoots of the WoD line. There are some interesting examples that are just starting to gain traction based off of the Internet and smartphones, and there have been a few articles written discussing these things.

I am clearly missing a lot of good terms for game definitions, and I shall add them in at some later date as clarification is requested.

So what do I do at these things?
It's just like playing a tabletop game, except you're ostensible in a different location and might be acting out a little more of your character than usual. A lot of this is apples-to-oranges: saying "You'll be hitting people with sticks" is kind of accurate . . . unless you're in a game that uses dancing as the mechanic to resolve conflict and interact with people. You could say that you leave the dice at home . . . except some systems use dice to resolve things on the field. Basically, if you're looking to LARP, read the rules and talk to people in the established group before showing up so you can know what to expect.

Isn't this incredibly dorky?
Yes. I am a huge loving nerd for doing this, and so is anyone else who goes LARPing. It is also incredibly fun and lets me go outside, wear a variety of outfits, and hit people while roleplaying.

So how do I get started?
First off, you're going to need to find a group (or form one, but that has its own challenges). If you're in the United States, I recommend checking your local gaming store - there are often posters up for groups. Otherwise, I can heartily recommend checking the following websites.

Shade's Live Action Roleplaying List is a moderately well-updated list of groups. It's generally better for looking up groups in the US.
If you're in , why not try the forums at Sverok?
Germans, I tend to use inLarp's forums when I'm looking for costuming advice and checking if there will be anything going on while I'm in your magical lands. LarpWiki also seems to be pretty useful.

There are also a couple of famous events in Germany that most people should be aware of: DrachenFest and ConQuest of Mythodea. It's good to just browse the pictures to see what a whole bunch of nerds can do when given enough time, resources, and sheer force of will.

:siren:

If you are looking for a LARP group, feel free to post your location in here, along with what you're looking for. I've done a lot of research, and I'm sure other LARPing Goons are more than willing to help out with that. Just try and say something else, too - this isn't the Meet-up thread. :siren:

What are some notable rulesets?

Well, there's a lot. I'll just link/explain a few that I know of - quite a few of them will be American, but I'll try and toss in some of the more entertaining European ones that I at least know of.

NERO is one of the oldest, longest-running games in the US. It's got a lot of players and chapters, but the system is somewhat mechanically-lacking - there's a large imbalance between players of different levels, years without reset have bloated the game, and it wasn't designed for high-level play. There are a bunch of NERO offshoots in the US - they're similar, but may fix some problems
DragonSys is the name for a set of German LARP rules that a number of groups use. Fairly good overall - point-based, unless I'm misremembering.
Fools and Heroes is a fairly prominent system in the UK.
IFGS is a US-based system. Low-immersion, designed to be played in parks and on nature trails.
Cthulhu Live! is a Call of Cthulhu-based LARP system, designed for players interested in recreating mythos action. It's fairly fun.
DKWDDK, an acronym for "Du Kannst, Was Du Darstellen Kannst, or "You can do what you can represent", is a bit of a hybrid ruleset/philosophy. Essentially, if you can represent it physically or show it in-game, you can do it. I am a big nerd for this style of gaming.
Empire has its very own post in this thread - I'll let the experts explain that one.

If anyone else has suggestions for systems that should get tossed up in the OP, let me know - I'd like to include as many mechanics for people to debate as possible. I can answer questions on most of the major (and some not-so-major) manufacturers of weapons and gear for fantasy games, give some tips for sewing garb and composing costumes, and otherwise provide a wealth of advice for someone starting out in this wonderful world of hypernerding.

So, yeah . . . let's talk us some LARP! I'd like to begin with a wise man's quote about running a LARP, taken from Aura Unveiled's website around the time of some rage-quits.

quote:

If you want to start a LARP? Do this first. Take the entirety of your bank account, put enough money back into your account to pay your minimum bills and an occasional visit to Wendy's. Take the rest and give it to the Salvation Army and a local camp for kids. Take your free time and donate it to a charity or EMS/Fire at one of those busy-rear end companies that want you there for every call no matter if you have to be up for work or if you're sick or if you're 300 miles away on vacation. Take anything left and learn to herd cats. Once you are done all that, take a poo poo ton of your friends and realize that they're going to let you down in a big way and you won?t be friends with them anymore in a year. You'll make new ones but hey, who needs the people you came of age with? Be ready to be hosed over by anyone at any time (but hey, that's a requirement for being a human). Realize that at least one of your friends will go insane. Then plan on going insane yourself. Do this for about two years. If at the end of the two years you're okay with this--start a LARP. You'll do fine.

Hedningen fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jul 9, 2013

# ¿ Jun 30, 2013 19:39

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 21:42

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Gameko posted:

Having watched some of the bigger documentaries on LARP, it seems like something I'd like to try at least once. That being said it feels harder to get into than even the typical ubernerd hobbies. Where do the larpers hang out? Surely they must have some internet forums somewhere...but the only pages I find googling are relics on Angelfire with three active members.

How would you recommend a newbie try out the hobby? I'd really prefer to go to a large event to get the most robust experience I can. How terrible are the people at these events?

It is a little harder to get into in some ways, mostly due to the experiences of some of the earlier groups, the ridiculous continuity of some games, and the intentional lack of visibility cultivated by some LARPers (at least in reference to some of the US games - I'm going to be an rear end and assume you're in :911:

land), which can make things super-frustrating.

To start, try searching Facebook - a LOT of groups have migrated there. I know of a few orgs that have decided it's the way of the future and are aggressively advertising on it. Set your search radius and go from there.

If you're looking for a really large event, you don't have a whole lot of options unless you're willing to deal with NERO politics, find a good convention, or travel out to Europe (unless you're in Europe, in which case you just need to plan and budget for it). Most of the larger US events are either within larger organizations that tend to be somewhat level-imbalanced or by the less-LARPy, more 'foam-fighting' sorts.

There are also plenty of groups that just don't advertise or put anything up - the stigma from bad groups, people's desire to keep their lives private, and a general desire to avoid "the wrong sort of player" can lead to those things. If you've got a local gaming shop, check it out and see if there's anything placed up there. Uni campuses can also help, as there's generally at least a Combat game going on somewhere, as everyone loves violence-as-a-safe-thing.

The other big barrier to entry is costuming - I always tell people that the easiest first costume is a basic t-tunic and a great kilt, because it takes minimal skill, looks pretty drat good, and acts as an excellent base for other garments, plus it's period-looking for most games that allow grittier looks. I do a lot of sewing and costuming (currently up to around 5 distinct outfits, including a Landsknecht-inspired piece with ridiculous colours, puffy sleeves, and a glorious hat), so I can give some tips if that's what you're looking for.

What sort of game are you interested in? There's a wide range of things, including sci-fi, modern, and other games of that nature out there, most of which are a little easier to costume for.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2013 23:14

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Little_wh0re posted:

So, Kids at events, for big events where a lot of the event is walking about trading and chatting and drinking or whatever quite a lot of the time people want to bring their families along. Some systems allow it, some don't. Some say "please don't swear around children", some say "please don't swear" and some say "if you bring your kids they're gonna hear rude things". Whatever, each place does it differently. Now most places have some refs dedicated to running stuff for kids but what I've found really interesting is the way Profound Decisions (PD) have done things in Empire.

What PD has decided to do is theme the kids stuff around an Acadamy. Kids turn up and learn everything they need to learn about how to be a citizen of the Empire. They learn about magic, about the Imperial Orks and when they're old enough they learn about combat.

The interesting part of this is that they tie this in to approving younger people for combat OC. I've talked to the refs about how pleased they were when the first kid, a 14 year old, passed his combat test and was allowed to go on the battlefield later that event. One of refs who works at the academy plays in my group and the excitement they show in getting to RP and teach RP to the younger generation is really wonderful to see.

First off, thanks for covering the UK - aside from a couple events and maybe one system, I am pretty drat clueless as to what you folks are doing over there. I can add a condensed list to the OP at some point. It's nice to see that there are some parallels, too - I'll be heading over to Freefall in a few weeks, and it's another interesting take on combining LARP with an existing universe. Neat to see how two different sets of mechanics aim to model similar things.

Secondly, I completely agree that mentor roles are a key if you're going to allow kids there. I've generally followed the rule that "If they're young, give them a mentor and teach them something every game." We saw a dramatic improvement in some of our younger players when they ended up working with an older, more experienced LARPer, to the point that we're considering extending it to some of our more problematic players. It's a great tool for longevity. I like seeing some younger kids at events, especially if they want to be there and understand what's going on - unsupervised kids are always a no, as it's a game, not a babysitting service, but if they're engaged, then it's good.

I'm beginning to gear up for a game in the fall - looking to do a week-long persistent world game in a somewhat cyberpunk setting. It's halfway between an ARG and a LARP, as the week is primarily for resource gathering, preparation, and alliances, all leading up to the event. Still finishing up some mechanics, as I will never be satisfied with how hacking works - it's gone through a few revisions. I may as well ask some goons what they think of the following:

The Basic: Several 'burner' e-mail accounts are registered. Players with Hacking can commit resources (essentially running calculations on a system and outputting the results) to get the password, whereupon they're given the password to the e-mail account.
Location-based: Hacking is purely about spending time at a certain location - players must check into specific places utilizing GPS services/Foursquare/Whatever, and remain in that area for a certain amount of time without corporate security catching them
Pointlessly Complex: A programmer friend of mine talked about making some simple little logic games to represent hacking - harder ones represent harder security. They're all accessible from a domain, with different 'accounts' leading to different things. Obviously would take a lot of time to set up.

If anyone has any suggestions for how to handle this sort of thing, I'd love to hear it. I'm not too experienced with really complex, large-spanning ARG-type games, so this has been a bit of a new experience for me to set up.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2013 03:31

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Awesome to hear there are folks involved with Empire - I totally blanked on including it in the OP (which has been rectified, along with a link to Whybird's excellent post on it). I'd echo what everyone else is saying in terms of heading to a new LRP - talk to people involved, find a group to go with, and think about what you're making beforehand.

Just finished the weekly weapons maintenance - I think that my kit has gotten a bit excessive at this point. On the plus side, variety is the spice of life, and having options and loaner gear for people is always a good thing. I'd be interested in hearing what people think of certain manufacturers versus homemade gear. Right now, I've got fightin' gear from Calimacil, Forgotten Dreams, IDV, and Ateliers Nemesis (who make some of the prettiest swords I've ever seen), which is pointlessly excessive. Still haven't found a good source for a decent halberd, although I hear Wyvern Crafts makes some good ones.

The biggest point of contention I've seen on weapons is usually in regards to two manufacturers - Calimacil and IDV. I'm quite fond of them both (especially IDV's round-headed arrows), but I know they hit pretty drat hard, so a lot of US games are pretty cautious about allowing them. Anyone have any thoughts on this? For IDV, I know it's a cut-and-dried "Some players are not comfortable allowing them", but I've been shot in the eye/face/groin at close range and seen no safety issues beyond it hurting like a bitch, so I tend to argue for them.Calimacil, on the other hand, seems to be a lot about "If players aren't controlling their gear, it hits too hard".

The rapiers they make are amazing, though. If ever there was a piece of gear I'd recommend, it would be those swords.

I've got a bunch of garb-making links - should I toss 'em up?

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 01:18

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

One_Wing posted:

I don't think I've encountered much fo Calimacil's stuff in the UK so I can't really comment. IDV arrows cause arguments over here as well however, arguably with good cause as I feel that overdrawn IDV shots are some of the least safe blows I've taken in all my time LARPing. Recently in the UK there's been a huge upswing in the use of blue foam heads formed into a shape like an IDV, as can be seen on the LARP archery page of the following site:

http://www.fairbowuk.com/

I can't recommend these enough - they fly better than traditional foam heads due to improved aerodynamics, but don't hit as hard as an IDV, so bring a substantial part of the best of both worlds. I'm not sure what the source is, but a whole bunch of traders have started stocking arrows made with them - I believe I heard that a company has started selling the heads, and people are buying them and making the shafts to go with.

That looks pretty drat good. I'd be interested in trying to get a few and test 'em out. Performance is always a big issue with LARP arrows, mostly due to the weird shapes. I've seen a lot of weird arguments on every side for things - this is kind of interesting for looking at the performance of LARP arrows versus safety, and how keeping to lower-poundage bows doesn't make a whole lot of difference from the math. The original is in German, but I checked over the Google translate, and it's not horrendous - mostly, it gets the idea across and explains some of the inherent safety issues. It's also why I get nervous whenever anyone proposes a heavy increase in bow strength - someone who fucks up with archery can put someone in a hospital. I've seen bow shenanigans that make me fear for my safety at some games.

At the moment, my system has only cleared the round IDVs for crossbows, and only at distances greater than 15 feet - the performance is high enough that we haven't had a lot of trouble, but we're definitely looking for alternatives, as they hit really drat hard. The crossbow is horrendously underused (thanks in part to the lack of good manufacturers, no real useful heads, and the really strict safety guidelines supported by the US), and I'd love to see more of them, but it's hard to make them anything more than an oddity thanks to safety issues.

Commercial arrowheads are always a mixed bag - I've used some of the Live Action Products heads and been pretty disappointed compared to home-built ones. Biggest problem so far is the cushioning foam completely debonding after a few dozen shots and getting ripped to poo poo by trees, despite claims of "No covers required". Covered, they're just like heavy homebuilts, with slightly worse performance due to weight and the whole modular thing. Certainly not bad arrowheads - I like the modular aspect, and I figure they had to sacrifice something for an industrial product, but it's still a little frustrating. Good if you're pressed for time or trying to get a bunch of arrows ready for an event without too much work, but otherwise, properly-balanced and tested homebuilts all the way. In the process of stripping out the shaft stops to make some of my own modular heads - I'll see how it goes.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2013 05:17

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

PST posted:

I'm one of the two head refs for Empire

That's pretty loving awesome. I've been talking with the organizer I'm on staff with, and Empire was one of the games we looked at while designing our system.

Freefall was pretty goddamn entertaining this year - the guys representing Weyland-Yutani did a great job of building some awesome props and equipment, including a full website, stable WiFi for the site, and constant media broadcasting and props. If people are interested in pictures, I can post the link to them. Otherwise, I can say that it's one of those weird games that could be absolute chaos (minimal ruleset, crossover with people who aren't interesting in the LARP aspect and just want to shoot guns, fully player-run with roughly one staff member for 150+ people) and yet somehow manages to be a fantastic experience every year.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2013 04:21

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

All right, pictures from Freefall. As a note - there are all taken from :nws:

the event photographer's Photobucket.. :nws:

(For those worried - the :nws:

is for one of the in-game whores, a fairly large man wearing nothing but a cowboy hat, a speedo, and suspenders. View at your own risk!) Feel free to browse it - he actually does a lot of photos for various groups, and while there's some variable costuming levels and other things of that nature, there are some pretty good pictures hanging around. I'm going to be going through in chronological order (Last page to first page) picking out some shots I think were pretty good.

I just like the framing on this one.

Shepherd on hand and the list of sins. Sort of a microcosm of how this whole game works - humour, punctuated by firefights and political dealings.

Crowd shot. I believe there were roughly 150+ people there.

Part of the plot involved the Alliance pulling out last year, and the change in government/increase in corporate involvement led to a bunch of disaffected and relocated refugees. In-game, it was a way to deal with all of the dying players - just dress 'em up in dissident masks and gear, and have them roam the town, silently distributing propaganda. This was their leader and organizer, who is in that nebulous position of Not-Staff-but-organizer.

Two on-site vehicles, both trucked in and built by players.

Picture of the brothel's bar.

Some on-site structures out on the airsoft field.

One of the aforementioned dissidents. They all did a good job - never heard one of them speak, and the masks/bags worked great in terms of alienation and marking them as distinct.

In general, there are some pretty variable costumes in there, and a good portion of the people came for the airsoft portion of the game more than the LARP elements, but it was a really good time. I feel bad that there aren't more pictures of the set-up Weyland-Yutani had; the guy built a full website for jobs, printed checks for easy tracking, and did a ton of other little details to make it work. I also wish there was a better picture of the field - it's enormous, and has such gems as two little towns with multiple-story buildings, a gigantic mine with trenches and a three-level tower, and a 40k sq. ft. castle with ramparts and such.

If anyone is in Wisconsin in a year, I heartily recommend Freefall - it's a big (for US games, at least) weird experience that catches the feel of that particular universe pretty drat well.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2013 02:02

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Well, things are a bit less hectic, so I may as well post some more useful LARPing tips. I figure now is a good time to consider garb and costuming. I figure I'll start with the less link-spammy elements of costume construction - mostly general tips and things to think about while costuming.

Starting Garb From Scratch
The biggest hurdle for someone to start LARPing is usually garb. First off, if you have no experience sewing and aren't willing to spend a lot to start off, see if you can borrow some loaner kit from someone while you're just starting off. We've already had a great example of this in the thread - larger organizations will have some loaner gear available, especially if they're high-immersion or really have good established costuming standards. Start off by contacting the group's leader or organizer - indicate your interest, point out that you'd like to try things out, and ask if they've got any loaner gear available. If they do, then work with them, see what other people are wearing, and give it a shot.

If they don't have loaner gear, you're interested in making gear, or you have the cash to spend to get some garb, then things get a little bit more interesting. To start, here are the things you'll need to know.

What's the time period or genre of the game?
What are the costuming standards of the game? Are there specific rules for certain types of characters, guilds, or nations?
How much are you willing to spend? Are you willing to put in the work to do the sewing?
What sort of character are you planning on playing?
What's the climate like in the area you're going to be gaming in?

Sit down, think about all those questions, and start gathering together materials or pricing out specific pieces. At this point, you can begin assembling your basic kit.

Basic kit
Ideally, when you go to your first game, you'll have a basic kit assembled. I always recommend avoiding overly complex gear for your first major costume. If the pieces are simple enough, you can layer other pieces over them so that you can make a variety of costumes for multiple roles - I don't know of many LARPers who don't have at least two costumes.

A basic kit should consist of the following:

Pants, kilt, or skirt
Shirt or tunic
Sturdy shoes that look fairly period/are period
Good, comfortable undergarments for temperature regulation
A belt with some sort of pouch

This is the absolute minimum kit I'd recommend for most people - it covers everything you'll need, it gives you something to layer other gear over, and you can start acquiring pieces like cloaks, doublets, tabards, and other 'layered' garments.

If you're making your own garb, stick to non-synthetic materials - they look wrong, they don't drape correctly, and they never, ever breathe. In general, they're more expensive, but they'll also hold up really well.

As far as making garb, always give yourself more time than you expect you'll take when you're making something. In general, start new projects at least a week before an event if it's simple, a month if it's complex/requires some tailoring. Try to avoid last-minute projects, because you'll have trouble completing things on time.

If you're buying kit, look into reputable sellers. You should also see if anyone within the group makes garb - if they're good, have some examples, and other people can vouch for their skills, then go for it. Otherwise, you should look into some of the online sellers - I'll have a recommend list at some point.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2013 01:21

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

Not going to lie, I would love to see a LARP Fashion Swat.

If you're at a good event, they'll have enough loaner gear that people with really awful garb are ambushed, forcibly given acceptable gear, and then chastised until they get their poo poo together.

This is especially hilarious when the person doing so is dressed exceedingly fancifully. Nothing inspires good costuming like some resident Landsknechts, because those are dudes who take their costuming seriously.

For some more amusing elements, here's the complaint form for the Landsknechts at Drachenfest. I forget who sent it to me, but it's highly amusing.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2013 06:16

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

All right, to add more content for people looking into this fascinating microcosm of games, I may as well talk about one of the most appealing parts of playing Pretend Forest Elf - weapons.

A Basic Primer On LARP Weapons
The earliest weapons used for what we consider "LARP" were nothing more than barely-padded, duct-tape covered sticks. Wood was commonly used as a core, they hit like bricks, and injuries were fairly common, but restricted. As time went on, regulations were made, and the first 'standard' LARP weapon came into play - the noble Duct Tape Boffer. This was typically a tube of PVC pipe, wrapped in pipe insulation foam or a pool noodle, and then covered in a shiny coat of silver duct tape. These looked about as good as one might expect, and suffered from a few problems - they only approximated the look of swords, they tend to hurt more in cold weather due to the tape stiffening, and they were virtually impossible to repair. On the plus side, they were cheap as poo poo, so no one cared if they were tossed out.

Soon, an evolution came - the cloth-covered camping mat sword, normally referred to as a Boffer Sword. These hit much softer than duct tape weapons, avoided the problem of stiffened duct tape, and could be made to approximate axes, maces, and other, non-sword weapons. They (arguably) looked better, and are still in use in some foam fighting games out there. It also shows some evolution - fiberglass and carbon fibre are now the de facto core choices, and there are some people who make good looking gear using these techniques.

Then, an interesting thing happened. A few prop makers decided weapons needed to look better than gigantic clubs, and took to shaping the foam on the edges. Because adding a duct tape cover would cause them to hit too hard and a cloth cover would be problematic to make, they began painting weapons with latex, which forms a waterproof skin over the weapon. They hit slightly harder than the safety-conscious boffer blades, but are the ancestors of the modern LARP weapon. They have the advantage of looking fantastic, to the point where they are the standard in most (if not all) European games and are gradually gaining ground in the US as more systems begin to emulate Euro-style LARP. On the negative, you need to maintain latex with silicone spray, and rips can make a weapon look somewhat ridiculous.

Nowadays, there are a great number of manufacturers of LARP weapons. It's still a labour-intensive process - most companies still make weapons by hand, although templates and standard "lines" of weapons have made it so that, rather than having to contact a lone guy making variable weapons in his garage, there are a number of standardized weapon designs.

The next frontier is the use of injection moulding - currently, I know Calimacil produces weapons this way. They make consistent weapons, and thanks to the properties of Calimacil foam, they're latex-free. On the negative side, they look a little less 'real' than a good quality latex weapon (at least, according to some highly-opinionated Germans I was interviewing), they're considerably more expensive than a lot of other groups, and they hit harder - "Full contact with Calimacil" is something I've never heard anyone request.

If you're looking for a weapon, there's a great deal of manufacturers out there, suitable for all price levels. Again, rather than flooding this area with links (especially considering the somewhat international sense of the community), I'll just talk a bit about some manufacturers.

Forgotten Dreams makes a wide variety of good weapons. They run the gamut from low fantasy to high fantasy, are durable, and are of high quality. They're around mid-range in terms of price - a basic sword can run from 60-70, while a spear might set you back around 200 bucks. As for testimonials? I've got an axe from them, and it's a good axe. On a larger scale, they're involved with Mythodea, producing special swords for them.
Iron Fortress is a Danish brand that has three distinct weapon lines - Epic Armoury, Dark Moon, and Ready For Battle. EA is their higher-end gear, RFB is starter equipment - swords start at around 40 bucks at some retailers - and DM is their modern/post-apocalyptic line. They're good weapons, if a bit light-feeling, and their basic stuff holds up well enough (two years of weekly fight practice with some of their long swords, and we've only had two break so far). They also make a nifty chainsword, which isn't half-bad.
Calimacil is where you start seeing some variation. As I said, they make injection-moulded blades out of a proprietary foam that self-skins. That means that it's durable as poo poo, doesn't mind the occasional cut, and requires almost zero maintenance. We've had swords left on the land and retrieved after a month - aside from discolouration, they still work. Negatives? They hit hard, they're expensive, some games don't allow them, and they only have a few "standard lengths" to work with. Additionally, they've started making a lot of high-fantasy/post-apoc gear as of late, which makes my low-fantasy game playing heart sad. A basic sword is around 80-90, with more expensive weapons reaching 250$. They also don't make any shields or (pre-made) pole-arms, which is a negative for some folks.
Small companies abound as well - there are a lot of folks doing custom work out there. Personally, I like Ateliers Nemesis, as they make gorgeous gear and are really easy to work with if you want some custom work done. They're pricey, but their weapons hit like a dream, are stable, and are of excellent workmanship.

Choosing A Weapon
Okay, first off, if you've never handled a weapon before and are looking to buy something for a game, start with an inexpensive (I recommend RFB) sword and a shield. Sword and board is easy to pick up and helps you survive - 'hiding behind something' has been an effective tactic for mankind for thousands of years.

Another tip - buy weapons that fit with your character(s). A well-matched weapon looks like part of your garb and accentuates your character, while a ridiculous fantasy blade in the hands of Generic Rogue In Overly Noticeable Cloak #6 makes little sense. If you're getting a weapon, think about how it fits in with this character or a future one.

In general, for someone just starting out, here's how the various strategies play out.

Polearms and large two-handed swords When you're good, it's hard to touch you. When you're bad? People will close the distance and shank you. Distance is always your friend, as is having someone nearby to hold a shield up. Generally, look for a group to work with.
Two weapons At first, you will suck. Then, you will suck less. Then, you will go through the magical period of realizing that your off hand can also do things, and you will suddenly get more effective. However, if you're expecting larger line battles or massed formations, this gets a little less effective - it's mostly a light skirmishing thing, especially if you're trying the long weapon/short weapon combo, as most LARP weapons do not behave the same way as steel ones, and so a lot of parries are functionally useless due to the weight of the blades involved.
Throwing weapons First off, mark all throwing weapons that you own. Then, prepare to lose some of them if you lose track of them, as well as seeing them thrown back at you. They're a backup or an opening line, not the basis for how you should fight.
Archery Expensive to start, and with the range of bows, it's not exactly forgiving for the beginner, but a good archer is invaluable. Always have a back-up weapon, and maintain your goddamn arrows, because watching an arrow fail a safety check sends chills down my spine every time.

I'm sure this can be expanded more - I've dabbled in everything from ridiculous swashbuckling with Calimacil rapiers to sword and shield in lines, so while I'm far from an expert, I can at least get people started on how things tend to behave. The biggest thing to remember - these things will be moving fast because they're so light, and parries will not stick, so the best you can hope for is a deflection if people aren't using RP'd strikes (which some systems require and others don't). Avoid trying flashy poo poo, because it inevitably doesn't work - the best way to hit someone is to aim a blade at them and swing, and most people whose experience consists of watching old Sword and Sorcery films will inevitably try weird spins and flourishes that look incredibly dorky, even for LARP.

Well, to round things off, I may as well show my latest project. I do some homecrafting of LARP gear, as I am one of those Americans who has figured out how Liquid Latex works. One of my biggest problem with LARP polearms is the fact that they don't really get to the length that some older polearms would get to - the point of a blade on a stick is keeping your opponent as far away from you as possible while still being able to make him bleed profusely and die.

In that spirit, I began constructing this beauty - one of Calimacil's halberd heads, mounted on an eight-foot fiberglass pole.

Materials used - stock head and fiberglass pole.

Preparing the head for insertion - athletic tape is wrapped around the 'core', to ensure a tight fit in the pole. My workspace is also hideously messy.

The fully-wrapped head.

After all of this, I checked the fit twice, added contact cement to the interior of the pole and the outside of the head's stabilizing core, and attached the two. It's a really good fit - test hits on the pell show that it's firmly attached. This monstrosity is roughly nine and a half feet long, and still needs some balancing to really work - I'll continue to post updates, especially as I'll be going through the process of padding and latexing the shaft of the blade.

Here's a couple of parting links for those interested in some other weapon stuff.

How To Make Latex Swords - A demonstration of the process used by one company. It's a good primer for folks looking into how this art is accomplished.
Full contact boffers that look good - Proof that you can make something that hits soft and still fits into a high-immersion game.
Building and Showing Off a well-made LARP cannon, patterned after a design from Warhammer.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2013 06:45

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

atal posted:

Thanks guys - I've sent an email to the Empire Crew email addy telling them what I'm most interested in - I guess I'll hear back from them next week. I think it will just be fun being a nerd and knowing that I'm helping vastly more nerds have a fun weekend. Also, as mentioned it will be a good way to get a good feel for Empire and LARP in general.

As an aside, goddamn some of those weapons look amazing - what are the fights like? I imagine it's all very fast and 'whippy' with everything being so light. Do people ever sort of slow things down to give a more 'realistic' feel?

That really depends on the system. If you're asking about Empire, I have no idea. Otherwise, yes, light weapons can be ridiculously fast and whippy.

I've seen several ways to handle it. The most basic is a catch-all rule of "Roleplay your swings", enforced by having a few weapons from the organizer's reenactor days around. You get to swing them around for a few minutes to get a feel, then try and match it. I've seen various other rule-hacks lately, as well - usually, there's a minimum arc the weapon has to travel through, a minimum time between valid strikes (which can be bad - it leads to problems with feints and people gradually speeding up, until it's abandoned) and various other methods of regulating swing speed. There are a lot of these sorts of things - the weirdest has to be, "weapons may not make a whooshing sound when swung", which, along with other hilarious errors in that particular rulebook, had me laughing at the nerdy arguments it must have spawned.

Other games don't bother. This is where you see hilarious machine-gun tapping and a lot of numbers being called if there's no minimum hit strength, or you start seeing full-contact ridiculousness.

I'm pretty happy, because I just got confirmation of site usage and insurance coverage for a horror game I've had sitting around for want of wherewithal to actually put it on. Proud of this one, although some of my prep work has been weirding out my neighbors.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 22:35

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Wish I could make Empire, but I'm stuck in the US for the time being. At least I can head up to Biccoline this summer and, in the meantime, work with local groups to make some good games.

Right now, biggest work is on technology-assisted gameplay mechanics. Running some small-scale tests with some of the initial technologies, but right now, the systems we're getting in place are fairly neat. Might as well do a run-down of the various sub-systems that are being tested.

Project 1: Firearm Replication
This is being worked on in a few stages. Cost is somewhat prohibitive (roughly 150$ to outfit a single person, single game use), but is being tested for use in a Western game. The basic idea is to allow for gunplay without requiring goggles or obtrusive, out-of-game equipment that would break immersion in a quasi-steampunk (I know, loving cliche, but the market's open, and I'd like to see something that's not "goths in brown and tophats" gaming) Western setting.

Emitter/receiver is just based off of laser tag equipment, without a lot of the fancy lights or other indicators. The emitter is a relatively simple system - Arduino, hooked to an IR emitter and an RFID scanner. At game start, the emitter is loaded with the player's "Gunplay" skill - as IR can't do location-based hits, we're using an abstracted seed for a RNG to determine hit locations. It fires based on trigger pull, and is reloaded by swiping an RFID tag hooked to a little speedloader device. The receiver is also Arduino-based - all it has is an IR receiver and a speaker system. The program accepts input from the IR device, uses the seed from the "Gunplay" statistic to run a RNG, then plays a soundclip that indicates location.

It's really loving crude, and still in development, but the idea's working fairly solidly. We're trying to make it a bit more dynamic in a few areas - avoiding re-use of ammunition is a problem, for one thing, as I'm a complete amateur with regards to this stuff - and there are still some problems, but it's somewhat satisfactory so far. Biggest issue is using this stuff for one-shots; I'm not interested in developing a whole goddamn recurring game based off of this idea, nor is that a good idea considering space, liability, and other poo poo that needs to be dealt with.

Project 2: Demons and Ambient Magic
Similar to the above, using RFID chips and UV-reactive paint to indicate spots with magical potential and a little RFID dump of information about demons. Players use them for getting specific in-game equipment - more of a scavenger-hunt thing, but with the right writing, it could be interesting.

The big project behind all of this, however, is going to be coming up with an IR-based magic system. Using simple colour codes, we're hoping to dynamically represent a whole host of magical effects in an organic way, utilizing fantasy-looking equipment on players to indicate if they're under the effects of spells and lose the whole "throwing orbs at things". Thankfully, I'm working with a couple guys who actually know their poo poo with regards to hardware and programming, so I'm just the "Make props look pretty, figure out design parameters so that it 'feels' magical, and determine how to incorporate this into a game" guy on this particular project, but it feels like something entertaining. Again, cost is gonna make it nothing more than a curiosity, but microcontrollers are pretty useful for a wide variety of weird applications.

Already had some fun with traps using Arduino-based tech - nothing beats motion-activated poison gasses and traps that require a bit of logic and skill to get past, which has always been a concern in dungeon environments. I'll keep folks updated as to where things are going, and I'm going to be releasing all of this stuff as open source once it's developed enough to be usable - after all, it's a curiosity, intended to be a new approach to a problem of representation.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2014 06:11

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Bucnasti posted:

That all sounds wicked. You should kickstart that stuff.

Nah, it's a personal project, and all the stuff will be released open-source when it's done. I've got no business acumen, so trying to make a proprietary system wouldn't work, plus open source makes wider acceptance a lot easier for people. Besides, with no Kickstarter, I don't have a time limit on any of this and don't have to develop a marketing strategy for it.

Besides, open-source means that there's a greater likelihood of innovation for people; building the framework so people can do what they want with is more appealing than trying to get funding for this. Whole project is pretty cheap, and the Arduino base means I've been able to experiment with a wide variety of concepts.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2014 22:18

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Camrath posted:

Dammit, can't believe I only just found this thread.

Anyone here do the Lorien Trust? I've been a regular there for about 8 years or so, currently based in the Harts and forging myself a globe-spanning empire of brothels and whorehouses..

Major shout-out for the Vale (http://majesticoaklrp.co.uk/vale/index.php) for any UK LARPers- seriously, give this system a try. I went to the first event a few weeks ago and despite appalling weather it really was one of the most intense LARP experiences I've ever had. It's a full PVP resource-control game between two camps- one of humans, elves and beastkin and one of greesnkins, undead and.. well.. elves. Very high standard of kit, costume and set-dressing, call-based firearms using cap-guns (I was playing a musketeer and had a blast in every sense), a 170 acre fully live site to play on (with no restrictions- one guy surfed down a crazy high embankment on his shield to get into a fight 50 metres away) and an atmosphere like no other game ever. The next event is this weekend, and bookings are still open- please do give it a try if you can!

Also a shout-out for SlenderLARP (https://www.slenderlarp.co.uk), run by some very close friends of mine. Next event is at the end of June. It's a brilliant 24-hour time in horror investigation LARP featuring all sorts of dread creatures of the night (obviously, the Slenderman but the Rake, various demons and fae and all sorts of other weird poo poo have made appearances). It veers from high drama and absolutely terrifying horror to wonderfully pulpy sillyness (my character is current a zombie welded into poorly constructed power armour, with a grenade launcher. Another long-term PC is essentially a sardine-oil powered cyborg. Yeah.). Really worth a shot for something different.

Yeah, it's a bit of a quiet thread, so I haven't been trying to keep it super-updated. Plus, things tend to move on a rather slow pace in the world of LARP, unless you're working with people in organization, whereupon it's a gigantic slew of things that need to happen pretty constantly.

I've always liked 24-hour horror games, although I've always run them as one-offs with my groups. Site set-up and atmosphere building is quite fun - last game I ran of that style was an investigation into some fake folklore we'd written up and released in the months leading up to the game, then we got to the site a couple days early to bury various important items and set the stage itself. It was quite good, too - we found a nice clearing to set up the remains of a ritual, covered it in rotting meat, some spare bones, and a bunch of blood we got from a butcher, and let the players discover it. The whole thing was staged in two places - the 'meet-up' location, then we ferried players out to the site while having them listen to some fake radio broadcasts that we brewed up. Got some great horror out of it, and while all the characters died or went terminally insane before the event ended, they made good headway into solving the various mysteries.

It was a poo poo-ton of work, so I can't exactly recommend going to these kinds of lengths, and my player base was smaller than it could be due to people not wanting to play a game where they weren't allowed to bring weapons in (as they had to find all of them on-site), but it was a ton of fun for everyone involved.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 00:30

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 21:42

Hedningen: May 4, 2013; Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Cocomonk3 posted:

Really glad to have found this thread.

I've been running a LARP in Australia for.. just about a year and a half now. Grew out of another LARP group and now we're up to 200+ members. My issue is (amongst other things) that we folks running the game are sort of just muddling through things. We've got a ruleset based heavily off Conquest, but modified for our gameplay, and that's working well for us. But it always seems like we're running into random issues that we solve and then realize had a very simple solution. Are there any good books out there about running a LARP? Or articles, websites, or such? We're managing, but I'd like to try and figure out things ahead of time rather than deal with them as they come up. For example, we've had rules on harassment and banning people from games if necessary, and last game it actually came up and we had difficulty figuring out how to implement them.

What resources would people recommend in general?

I know there's a group on FB, LARP Haven, that's occasionally good for discussion, although there tends to be rather divisive issues, with a lot of people assuming background and some odd folks. There are a wealth of organizers there with quite a bit of experience, but if you're looking for gamerunning advice, always check the experience of the folks giving it - there's a lot of people who still stick with the American module system, which is rather different than open-world games that a lot of Euro-style games don't utilize. It's also got some decent resources - I think somebody translated some of Bicolline's rules to English.

Otherwise, in general, it's like running any other business - work on having a clear plan, stick with it, and be sure that any rules you say will be enforced are enforced. Good job on enforcing your harassment policies - LARP is one of the worst hobbies for encouraging the Nerd Social Fallacies, and so a lot of games don't weigh short-term losses versus long-term losses of the game. No matter how long someone's been with a game, it's never a reason to excuse lovely behaviour. I'm sure we've all got some good stories of horrible players, and a sure sign of game death is an organizer being unwilling to enforce their own policies.

As for edge cases and rules elegance - just keep reading about other people's experiences, and figure out how to deal with them in a consistent manner. I've always played it according DKWDDK philosophy - if you can figure out how to represent it well in-game in an unambiguous fashion that other people can recognize, then it'll work.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2014 06:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > LARP: Pretending to be Elves in Forests