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Robert Denby posted:What struck me most about that scene was the brother's reaction. It wasn't shock or concern, just, "not this poo poo again", as if he's put up with these threats so much that he just doesn't react to them, which really hit home how hosed-up our main character is. Huh? I got the exact opposite impression: that this was the first time she had done this to him. And he does look guilty when he first gets the sense that he upset her, and surprised that her life is this bad. This makes sense: it's not like Tomoko is good at letting others know how she feels. He does underreact to the suicide threat, but that's mostly because Tomoki doesn't show how he feels about anything (unless he's caught off guard, like he was at first, but that was a really long suicide threat). He is annoyed, but it's because she is being annoying, but he still does give a drat. He's just really bad at expressing that. I think that if this was a regular thing he wouldn't actually listen to her.
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Jul 14, 2013 03:36
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Something I noticed when I talked to a friend who had also happened to watch it: it seems if you've never experienced social anxiety or what it's like to be an outcast, the show is usually "hilarious" to you, based on his reaction and many in this thread like Dr. Sunshine. He's always been pretty popular and never has a worry when it comes to life sucking, he actually kinda has issues with his way of life because it's to the point where he just easily moves on from EVERYTHING, including death of friends/family, and barely can bring himself to mourn someone before leaving it behind him. But because he's got natural socialability he finds the character in Watamote a hilarious freak. And yeah, she's a freak, in a lot of ways which will become apparent as time goes on. But she's also extremely pitiable and pathetic, and there is a point when someone can be so gone from social interaction that they just forget it completely. That's the sort she appears to be. Granted, there's apparently a prequel that I haven't looked at at all that I guess sheds light on her formative years, but still. She's the sort that needs professional help in the worst way but doesn't realize it herself. edit: I'm not saying all this stuff to say I'm down on the series, on the contrary, I think it's great. And I do find it amusing sometimes, but it honestly does portray real life social anxiety way better than anything else I've seen when it focuses on that and not certain things we'll eventually see that are just cacklingly mean/cruel/absurd. Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jul 14, 2013 |
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Jul 14, 2013 14:38
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Remember Mel Brooks' definition of comedy. This isn't that serious of a work. I've been a social outcast and have had/am having social anxiety issues. Kuroko is still funny because she has these things, but turned to 11 and played for comedic effect. You are supposed to pity here because she's small and cute in a frumpy way and you see yourself in her more than you'd like to admit if you post here and sometimes life just shits on her, but the joke is that she reacts to stimuli in completely bonkers ways even without the social anxiety. The social anxiety things have a kernel of truth, but are played to extremes. She is not a normal person; her neuroses have made her a clown.
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Jul 15, 2013 07:04
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Oh I know, but there are certain points where it specifically plays certain known examples of anxiety totally straight without the absurdity turned up super high to make it hilarious, and yeah, those are the cringeworthiest bits. There's definitely a bunch of good funny bits based on those though. And I don't really pay attention to Mel Brooks. Mind telling me what it is?
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Jul 15, 2013 13:09
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She isn't that deep a character, she just spent too long inside being a huge nerd to the point where she doesn't have a normal frame of reference. Saying it's all the fault of social anxiety or whatever ignores the point that it's her own drat fault she isn't popular.
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Jul 15, 2013 13:33
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Captain Invictus posted:And I don't really pay attention to Mel Brooks. Mind telling me what it is? "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die."
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Jul 15, 2013 13:51
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Namtab posted:She isn't that deep a character, she just spent too long inside being a huge nerd to the point where she doesn't have a normal frame of reference. Saying it's all the fault of social anxiety or whatever ignores the point that it's her own drat fault she isn't popular. In short, she has a lot of issues. Social anxiety's just one of them, but it's one a lot of people identify with.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:04
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Kaja Rainbow posted:Trust me, it isn't just that. I used to experience something like what you speak of (slipping into a delusional state due to lack of normalizing interaction), and I never really experienced that kind of anxiety just speaking to people. Also, you're ignoring the numerous people in this thread who do have social anxiety, who've said that it reflected their lives if rather exaggerated at times (and she does have other problems like her delusions on top of that). Yes, but the difference is that you are all real people and she is an anime character in a comedy anime.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:05
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Namtab posted:Yes, but the difference is that you are all real people and she is an anime character in a comedy anime.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:11
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So its exaggerated to be as hilarious as possible, but that doesn't take away the fact that it can invoke horrifyingly familiar emotions in the audience. Like the anxiety and the misinterpretations and the boredom and loneliness.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:19
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Namtab posted:Yes, but the difference is that you are all real people and she is an anime character in a comedy anime. I am actually just a forum-bot. I don't actually exist.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:20
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Namtab posted:Yes, but the difference is that you are all real people That's the best thing anyone has ever said about me, thank you so much! 
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Jul 15, 2013 14:41
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Namtab posted:Yes, but the difference is that you are all real people and she is an anime character in a comedy anime. Ghibli's making a movie about a WW2 airplane designer, therefore he is no longer a real person.
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Jul 15, 2013 15:46
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Namtab posted:Yes, but the difference is that you are all real people and she is an anime character in a comedy anime. She was written based off her own author's social anxieties and experiences (dramatized, that is), however.
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Jul 15, 2013 16:53
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I like the part where the cartoon person had a difficult time speaking to the other cartoon people.
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Jul 15, 2013 18:06
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Poniard posted:I like the part where the cartoon person had a difficult time speaking to the other cartoon people. Me too, I really identify with not being able to speak freely with cartoon people.  Seriously, I'm cringing while I laugh at this show so far, so it's doing its job imo.
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Jul 15, 2013 18:45
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Everyone seems to be saying Tomoko's voice is perfect, but to me it's just too cute to fit with what I imagined while reading the manga. Her anime character design's not really very ugly at all either.
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Jul 16, 2013 02:32
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Anime characters when given the BESM treatment tend to fall into a pretty formulaic look. The rings under her eyes are really really gross though when it zooms in.
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Jul 16, 2013 02:46
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Caithness posted:Everyone seems to be saying Tomoko's voice is perfect, but to me it's just too cute to fit with what I imagined while reading the manga. Her anime character design's not really very ugly at all either. Yeah, that's one of my problems with the anime compared to the manga. I always read her imagining her speaking with this sort of quasi-guttural moan/creaky voice. Like she's always got a terrible cold or something.
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Jul 16, 2013 03:18
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Oh boy, they're starting to go off the rails from the manga now. It's all content from the chapters mentioned, but they're definitely not going to follow the numbering order. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get some original episodes. E: It also looks like they're going to change the ending theme weekly. Dehry fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 03:42
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I just assumed it was a one-time special ending for the second episode. The Mimi wo Sumaseba homage was great.
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Jul 16, 2013 04:20
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Caithness posted:I just assumed it was a one-time special ending for the second episode. It could be that too... As far as anime references go, you can still count the non gaming related anime I've watched on one hand. I'm sure I'm missing a LOT.
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Jul 16, 2013 04:25
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DrSunshine posted:Yeah, that's one of my problems with the anime compared to the manga. I always read her imagining her speaking with this sort of quasi-guttural moan/creaky voice. Like she's always got a terrible cold or something. That's what those Ring/Ju-on vengeful ghost girls sound like. She's not a vengeful Japanese girl ghost, she just looks like one. 
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Jul 16, 2013 05:07
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The new episode is up on crunchyroll. That ED! 
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Jul 16, 2013 06:34
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Caithness posted:Everyone seems to be saying Tomoko's voice is perfect, but to me it's just too cute to fit with what I imagined while reading the manga. Her anime character design's not really very ugly at all either. Her manga design isn't exactly ugly either, to be honest. Her design is pretty plain overall, honestly, which I suppose was the idea. Also episode 2 was better than the first, and I really liked the first episode. It's somehow managing to be both funnier and more depressing (and often both at once) than the manga was. Also the ending is amazing
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Jul 16, 2013 06:42
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MadRhetoric posted:That's what those Ring/Ju-on vengeful ghost girls sound like. She's not a vengeful Japanese girl ghost, she just looks like one. Did you ever watch the animated Teen Titans cartoon on Kids WB? Do you remember Raven's voice? I always imagined Tomoko doing the same kind of "creaky" voice.
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Jul 16, 2013 07:11
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She never catches a break huh?
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Jul 16, 2013 07:20
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I hate you guys. I watched the first episode completely missing the entire point of this character and this show and had a good time. I wasn't aware she had social anxiety to this point until I read this thread. Now watching this second episode nearly every little detail of her life made me depressed.
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Jul 16, 2013 07:55
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Dehry posted:Oh boy, they're starting to go off the rails from the manga now. It's all content from the chapters mentioned, but they're definitely not going to follow the numbering order. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get some original episodes. I think Silver Link seems to have found a rather clever means of rearranging Watamote into proper 22 minute episodes. After the first episode, I didn't expect it to flow quite so naturally, and I really expected to get what amounted to two separate stories per episode rather than A/B plots. Instead, had I'd not known it was a manga adaptation, I wouldn't have guessed it, especially with the special ED and the punchline at the end of it. I'm glad they are working with the format - nothing kills a comedy manga adaptation like trying to use the original work like storyboards most of the time. Additionally, the visual metaphor they seem to playing with having Kuroki in all grey whenever she's feeling particularly plain/lame is pretty novel as well. The animation on whole is nothing flashy barring the parodies, but that actually feels pretty fitting here. Her imagination exceeds her reality anyway, so it might as well come across visually as well. Fat_Cow posted:She never catches a break huh? Not that she's outwardly aware enough to catch. I mean, she's not friendless, and it's clear that she could find a clique to accept her if she wasn't panicking so hard about being herself. Her neurotic internal dialogue and her actions do bounce between being funny and hitting too close to home. In fact, sometimes the only way to look at the show and the manga happily is knowing she'll probably grow out of it with time. I don't see this ending on a down note. Well, the anime maybe, not the manga.
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Jul 16, 2013 08:56
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The pacing of the second episode was incredible and I hope they keep it up. There were like three laugh out loud funny moments every minute, I swear. Or cringe out loud moments, I suppose. This show's jokes are always teetering on that border.
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Jul 16, 2013 15:07
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I was laughing through most of episode 2, but after the credits when you actually see how Tomoko's portrait came out (and what the artist really thinks of it) it was just a total downer. I guess what she doesn't know won't hurt her 
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Jul 16, 2013 16:06
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Episode 2 did not fail to impress. This and The Eccentric Family are now the obvious forerunners this season.
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Jul 16, 2013 16:10
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Kuroki sure does throw up a lot. She should throw up every episode. The dark circles under her eyes always make her look like she's on the verge of it anyway.
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Jul 16, 2013 17:21
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I challenge you to eat double what you're normally used to eating in a single sitting, then run around and not throw up.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:09
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I'm kinda surprised people are finding it sad. I can totally identify with some of what she does, cause I did that when I was a teenager too. The internalized misanthropy, the complete inability to speak to people you're unfamiliar with or to approach certain topics... you know, awkward teenager stuff. I remember when someone I knew left school, and it took me about a month to ask someone about why they weren't around and I only did it in a stutter. Or being unable to ask people where the white rice was in a Chinese buffet. I grew out of it, and unbeknownst to me I was cared about and liked regardless of that stuff. Which is kind of why I find the series both really funny and kind of heartwarming. Tomoko isn't bullied, her family loves her, her old friend values her company, the people around her are all pretty much good natured sorts who don't mean any harm. You can see part of this already in the anime, where the group she hates is saying similar things to what she's thinking and how her brother still makes time for her even though she's a weird sister to have. Her friend even reached out to her when she was having issues. The series has a refreshing absence of bullying, and even her teachers look out for her, if incompetently. It paints a picture of a benevolent world that she could reach out and be part of if she was able to stop worrying so much about how she sees herself.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:35
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That's a great description, but that's why we feel sad for her. The problem she has is that she's fighting herself and she has no idea how to win. What's going to give her the advantage is the people in the world around her, such as her friend and family. It seems like this story is, in the long term, about her overcoming this internal war against her social anxiety/awkwardness, but in the short term it is about the situations her condition puts her in and how she handles them in rather hilarious ways. In a way it kind of reminds loosely of Shirou in F/SN where much of UBW is him fighting against his own idealism in a literal sense since Archer is the result of that idealism. Of course that's a very different context with a very different person fighting a different part of himself, but it has the same theme of internal conflict.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:55
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The 2nd episode pretty much solidified this as the best of the season for me, almost totally for the ending. Poor Tomoko... And while I can identify with a lot of her problems, I'm still taking it all very lightly. I mean there's "trying to overcome your own social anxiety by any means", and then there's *episode 2 spoilers*imagining yourself getting sexually violated by yandere men into the Yamcha position. finalcake fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 21:28
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This one was really funny, and I knew all the details from the manga. Tomoko is a weird girl, and the VA, while a little cute, is very good at sounding desperate or hopeless or manic, which are Tomoko's foremost emotions. If the voice was off-putting then it would be a worse show since she is the sole narrator and focus of every scene.
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Jul 16, 2013 21:31
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Stall_19 posted:I hate you guys. I watched the first episode completely missing the entire point of this character and this show and had a good time. I wasn't aware she had social anxiety to this point until I read this thread. Now watching this second episode nearly every little detail of her life made me depressed. She doesn't. Goons with social anxiety issues are just projecting. Captain Invictus posted:I challenge you to eat double what you're normally used to eating in a single sitting, then run around and not throw up. Challenge accepted 
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Jul 16, 2013 22:24
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I don't really have social anxiety so the most cringe moment for me (not featured in the anime yet) is when she falls asleep with the neck massager and naked butler on xmas eve and her dad finds her, I too have fallen asleep with porn open in my youth
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Jul 16, 2013 22:39
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