|
Yukitsu posted:From beyond the graaaave. Wooooooooo. Alternately, I suppose she could train them from "retirement". I.e., in-game effects: dead ninja, but narrative effects: disabling wound, so now she sits in her wheelchair and berates the trainees. "No! That's exactly the mistake that got me paralyzed! You should never let the target get his hands out of your sight!" But this is all speculative... at least it better be.
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2013 10:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:02 |
|
|
Yukitsu posted:Words... I'm sure you didn't intend it, but your initial post comes across as pretty damning of Burning Stone and I think Sydin was right to point it out, while your second post on the matter reads like a dummy spit. No-one here doubts your skill at Total War, but that doesn't mean that your advice is going to be magically immune from criticism, especially when parts of that advice are provably wrong. If you don't care about specific numbers, that's fine, but it's unreasonable to think that any numerical advice you offer holds any credence after that point. Burning Stone's Game Short Game (15 of 25 provinces), Turn 38 of 120 (82 remaining), Takeda Well, let's start with the good news. This an almost completely typical Realm Divide situation with the notable exception that your economy is much stronger than most. This is a great position to be in, because it's far easier to turn money into troops than vice versa. This economic firepower also gives you the ability to invest in several areas where you are lacking while still being able to maintain the level of recruitment that early Realm Divide tends to require. In fact, I recommend new and veteran players alike download and give this game a shot, it's a strong position that can really be moulded how you want it to go. However, the reason for this flexibility feeds into the points that need work. There was no plan. The arts tells me that making killer spears was the battle plan, as does the spattering of Yari Dojos around the place, but the expansion and building development screams that this was a purely organic game where the best option each turn was the one taken and as a result the entire empire really lacks focus. The single best thing you can do in this game is to formulate a plan and work out how to get there. This lack of plan has meant that you are in Realm Divide with a great many open fronts (including the sea!), which needs a large number of troops to defend. Unluckily for you, all I can see are your two expansion stacks of ashigaru, with no force kept in reserve for defensive purposes. While you can get away with that when you are 6 provinces big, at 16 provinces you really need some form of mobile defensive army. As such, your first military objective is to work out how to reduce your fronts to a more manageable level. Fukushima/Echigo make a perfect natural chokepoint to isolate the entire eastern group of clans. You can bait the AI into not using naval invasions on you from the east by being in land contact with the only clans there (which you will be) and only half stocking the forts with troops. Securing this front is a good plan for your eastern expansion army. Obviously Kozuka will need to be taken to secure this, but it looks poorly defended right now anyway (Also, Philosophical Tradition!). Expanding with your North Shinano army through Hida for the valuable wood will keep the income strong and give you extra expansion options. You will need a fleet or two down south (and eventually north when your expansion armies have moved through). These fleets need not be huge, 3-4 Medium Bune and 3-4 Bow Kobaya will be sufficient to eliminate all but the most powerful navies (Mori!) and isn't at too high a cost (Building 4 of each is 540 koku upkeep a turn, so 1080 koku for those two fleets). These will need Fire Arrows, which should be your next art priority as it's incredibly useful for defending and attacking, as it makes the arrows armour piercing, giving your ashigaru much more punch against incoming samurai. You will need to get some quality in your armies, so get those Dojos recruiting maybe a dozen or so Samurai of any flavour (Naginata preferred) and split them into your two primary offensive armies. In your other provinces, raise another stack of ashigaru for defensive purposes. If you lose every trade koku you get and buy those earlier fleets, you can still support another 2 full stacks of ashigaru, so get at least one more stack up if you can. It doesn't have to be all in one place, you should probably have them split and put them in key defensive chokepoints. These can be your mobile defensive forces. You are making enough money and have more than enough food to upgrade all the Markets in your Metsuke provinces into Rice Exchanges and then Merchant Guilds. Don't go overboard on them, just 2 a turn (3k worth for the Rice Exchanges) and then into Merchant Guilds as they come online. This will grow your economy quite substantially and help offset all the troop purchases that need to be done. In addition, move the Metsuke from Shimotsuke into Hitachi, it's only a turn away and it's richer, not doing this is costing you 60 koku a turn. Your provinces are purely organic, it looks like you have kept whatever the AI has put in there when you conquered them and then you put a Market in ones that did not already have one. This is not a bad idea as it frees up koku for other things, but you have the money to be really putting some power into your provinces. You are Takeda and I couldn't find a single Stables in your entire empire! Your cavalry are cheap to recruit and maintain, while being quite powerful. Kai is a great province for putting Stables in thanks to the Warhorses special, but anywhere would do. Cavalry move quite fast on the campaign map on their own, so location is less important. Push your cavalry province to Fortress, pulling down anything that isn't a Dojo or Stables. Put the Dojo that corresponds to the cavalry type you want to be able to recruit there. Encampments can be upgraded into Proving Grounds which lets you recruit Takeda Fire Cavalry, who are spectacular, so certainly consider putting an Encampment in there too. The Fortress also provides two recruitment slots instead of one (3 since Kai is your capital and gets a bonus slot) which really lets you crank out quality troops quickly. Light Cavalry are fast to build, cheap and powerful, so bulk your armies out with those rapidly to help stem the Realm Divide tide! Consider making a vassal or two to trade with so you can maintain your trade income even into Realm Divide. Don't make a vassal out of Hida or Echigo though, you need to own them in order to win! Going deep spears is fraught with danger, as the Yari Master Dojo needs cotton in order to be built, while the only supply of cotton is a single trade node far to the west. This means a lot of your time on Spear Expertise is going to waste, as you can't leverage that building. Your spear units still end up amazing though, so it's not a total loss. I doubt you even thought about getting access to cotton when you decided to go Spears, it's something that catches a lot of people out. Bows needing Silk and Monks needing Incense catch a lot of people out the same way. Iron for Swords and Horses for Cavalry are much more plentiful and so people rarely get caught there. Long story short, you are looking good. Some teething troubles are to be expected, but you have a huge capacity to recruit troops and consolidate fronts, so take advantage of it. The samurai especially you should be able to bring online pretty quickly! I would have been proud if my first Realm Divide looked anything like this good!
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2013 10:34
|
|
|
Thanks to everybody for all the advice - even if it doesn't always agree.  The game has been shaped by something you can't see now: two enemies who absolutely refused peace, no matter what. I probably should have just accepted that they'd periodically send armies and agents at me and lived with it, but I decided to wipe them out and triggered Realm Divide when I took the last province. Shalcar was right that there wasn't a plan; I've been scrambling on the defensive for most of the game The armies and arts are something of an experiment. I decided before starting that I'd focus on spears and going deep into the arts, instead of what I've done before and researched things more or less top down. Not playing to Takeda's strengths, but I didn't want to repeat a clan that I've already played. Usually I find the game has a rhythm: initially you build your economic building and ashigaru soldiers. After a while, after better armies start to appear and all the small clans get eliminated, there's a pause for building infrastructure and better troops, then comes Realm Divide and the final expansion. Here I've messed up and gone from phase one to three in one step. So yes, I agree, my infrastructure is poor, my armies are scrambled; that's exactly why I think this is a bad enough situation to be interesting. Something I expected to get tweaked about, but I don't think came up, is the lack of monks. I've played three or four turns past the save, and the AI is being very aggressive about sending all varieties of agents after me. They've been quite successful at eliminating my agents, which has never happened to me before. I expected to be told I've got too much food, not too little, so that surprised me. Likewise, I'm surprised that you guys have provinces that never see a market, while they form most of my economy. I do see that I should pick my metsuke provinces and build all the economic buildings I can there. Another point that came up: I'm repeatedly surprised by how few military recruitment centers you can get away with. So do you guys only build troops in places where they'll get a bonus?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2013 15:22
|
|
|
shalcar posted:I'm sure you didn't intend it, but your initial post comes across as pretty damning of Burning Stone and I think Sydin was right to point it out, while your second post on the matter reads like a dummy spit. No-one here doubts your skill at Total War, but that doesn't mean that your advice is going to be magically immune from criticism, especially when parts of that advice are provably wrong. If you don't care about specific numbers, that's fine, but it's unreasonable to think that any numerical advice you offer holds any credence after that point. I'm not a nice person, and I'm definitely not a nice teacher. When people are saying that they're in a bad spot, and want a look at things, I'm not there to pat them on the shoulder and tell them they're doing a good job, I'm just going to list all the things that went wrong, and if he had done otherwise, I can guarantee that even if he'd not be in a position that you would like, he would be in a position to beat the game without any real problems. If he wants me to add that everyone ends up in a position like this from time to time, yes, everyone does end up like this from time to time, but that doesn't in my view, help him. What I'm telling him will. The biggest contention I have here, is that I don't feel his economy is all that strong. 8 turns in from here, my income has dropped to 500 or so koku a turn because I've increased my turn by turn upkeep to over 8000, and am forced to repair buildings that were damaged by ninja every turn. I've got just enough navy now that I feel secure at delaying a faction or two at sea, and I've added an army to hold in the far west, but I can't upgrade economic buildings, and I can't build another army to make a secure push towards Kyoto, let alone an army strong enough to easily take Kyoto. With basically no new economic streams, I'm forced to try and take Kyoto or money generating centers with what I have, which is not something you want to tell a struggling player he should be doing. I can compare and contrast this to a save I have on turn 46, where I'm spending 11,000 on military upkeep, but still earn 3000 a turn to spend. And my tax take is passively increasing by over 200 a turn. BurningStone posted:Something I expected to get tweaked about, but I don't think came up, is the lack of monks. I've played three or four turns past the save, and the AI is being very aggressive about sending all varieties of agents after me. They've been quite successful at eliminating my agents, which has never happened to me before. I had to swap research and grab temples to my research chain, but only when I was offered a Nanban trade quarter. It's possible to play a completely monk free game, but they can certainly make life a little easier. Ultimately, if you're not getting the Nanban trade quarter, then it's entirely up to you. quote:I expected to be told I've got too much food, not too little, so that surprised me. Likewise, I'm surprised that you guys have provinces that never see a market, while they form most of my economy. I do see that I should pick my metsuke provinces and build all the economic buildings I can there. Shalcar, and those that follow him view growth as largely secondary, and prefer to quickly pay back what they've spent on a building. Essentially, they will do approximately what you've done and get cheap but efficient economic buildings while I'd spend a lot more on growth, including roads and ports which I forgot to mention you also need more of. I suspect the reason I'm succesful even though I eschew his advice is that my key economic centers, which rely heavily on growth are taxed way above what Shalcar estimates, and because I seem to have a faster border expansion rate. There's nothing really wrong with building a market when you have nothing else to build in a province, but you should first pick 5 to have ninja production, and perhaps another 5 to produce monks and matchlocks (with the nanban trade quarters, you want to surround it with temples). That would leave you with only 5 provinces to have built a market in. 10 if you don't get any monks. That may seem like it's really helping, but it's only providing about 2000 koku a turn, and of that, only a few hundred will end up in your pocket as tax income. And remember, Shalcar's profit expectations for a market are only for building a market. I don't recall him figuring how many turns it would take for a return from a market that required a stronger castle. The castle triples the price and if you've built 5 markets in that manner, it also eliminates any growth bonus from the markets. If I had to guess, I'd guess it takes around 40-60 turns to pay off a market/castle combo. Lastly, as some food for thought, every market that you build? Paid off quickly, but it's only earning you 40 koku a turn. All of your markets combined right now are generating you only 600 koku a turn. quote:Another point that came up: I'm repeatedly surprised by how few military recruitment centers you can get away with. So do you guys only build troops in places where they'll get a bonus? I only build samurai in provinces that get a bonus. For the most part, I'm willing to throw ashigaru into the meatgrinder and potentially lose a few groups of them, and recruit them from anywhere. Yukitsu fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Sep 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2013 17:13
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:Another point that came up: I'm repeatedly surprised by how few military recruitment centers you can get away with. So do you guys only build troops in places where they'll get a bonus? Most of the time, this is only true of recruiting high-cost units. You can also do a bit of cheese with it. So, I'll outline a warrior monk-based strategy: Consider this: Naginata Warrior Monks have high morale, melee attack equal to a Katana Samurai, higher melee defense, and a bonus vs. cavalry which means that one of the possible counters to Katana is ineffective against them. Naginata warrior monks pay for this by having paper thin armor - on the level of a Yari Ashigaru. So: Build warrior monks in a province with a Master armorer and now they have 5 armor, the same as a Katana Samurai, removing their biggest weakness (arrows). Incidentally, the relative benefit of armor to a melee unit is almost always going to be greater than a bonus to any other stat, as it provides not only melee protection but missile protection, and can't be increased by exp, while melee attack, defense and morale can. Not only this, but a hardier unit that is less likely to take losses also holds onto more of the exp they earn, which in turn makes them more dangerous much quicker. Now, as this is a production center, you may wish to upgrade your castle as much as possible for better recruitment. This also means more slots. So, if you have the tech, stick an encampment in there! Upgrade it to an armory, and now you have Warrior monks with 7(!) armor that cost 10% less to recruit. You have naginata warrior monks who now have 250% more armor than a normal monk. Even if you don't have warrior monks, even if you decide to recruit Katana samurai there or horsemen or something else, they will still benefit significantly from the armor bonus, which means fewer die, which means less turns spent on getting your forces back up to full after a battle. Even if you recruit ashigaru there, you end up with ashigaru who are far more hardy than the standard stuff you can buy elsewhere. The biggest cost from Samurai is not really the increased recruitment costs, it is the increased per-turn costs. Having your high-cost units produced in a province that gives you more bang for your buck pays off not only in the short term, but in the long term, as every unit you have is more effective. A few focused recruitment centers also mean that the rest of your nation can focus on generating income and pumping out a few ashigaru if needed, to better support your armies.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2013 21:09
|
|
|
This was a bad drama post that was of no use to either the thread or myself. As such, it is removed. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) shalcar fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Oct 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 02:31
|
|
|
Oh dear drama and personal attacks. Can we all just chill out and talk about pixel soldiers dieing for our amusement?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 02:52
|
|
|
Perhaps you could have just quoted the part where he said "I'm not a nice person" and told him not to say that to people ever again, and then told him to get out. Instead you wrote an equally terrible post that looks like an automatically generated insult from the internet of the 90s. Do you see how both what you wrote and what he wrote looks socially awkward to people? Please continue with your excellent LP and try not to write diatribes on internet forums.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 04:06
|
|
|
Thanks for showing us you found an online thesaurus.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 05:25
|
|
|
shalcar posted:For everyone else, I sincerely hope there will be no need to post anything else like that in the future. With any luck I'll have the update finished this afternoon, so look forward to it! Awesome, because your other Shogun LP was great, and I powered through that in a day and I crave more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 05:34
|
|
|
shalcar posted:You are an aggressive and boorish lout, swooping into threads and posting whatever stream of consciousness comes into your head, mistaking the anguished cries of other posters as proof that you are dropping truth bombs, when in fact your posting does to rational conversation what it normally takes quite thick treacle to do to the workings of a precision watch. I skimmed your post and initially didn't realize this was all one sentence. This piece could easily take down a Bulwer-Lytton for worst sentence ever written.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 05:46
|
|
|
Alright, can we please just get back to discussing the actual game? We have a report button so that we don't start in-thread flamewars, whichever side of this you're on. To try and wrench this back on-topic, I've been running an Otomo game. Since I have easy early access to firearms, should I even bother with archers? Indirect fire for assaulting castles is excellent, but is it worth it to try and run both in the same army? Or should I just push hard for matchlocks as soon as I can?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 07:20
|
|
|
Shalcar? I laughed. I laughed very hard. I heard one of those words in your voice and somehow in my mind you became Sherlock Holmes from the latest incarnation of him (which I quite like).
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 07:27
|
|
|
Agent Interrobang posted:To try and wrench this back on-topic, I've been running an Otomo game. Since I have easy early access to firearms, should I even bother with archers? Indirect fire for assaulting castles is excellent, but is it worth it to try and run both in the same army? Or should I just push hard for matchlocks as soon as I can? Archers are still very important. Matchlocks are really good at shattering enemy morale, but in most field battle situations, they're only going to be able to get off 2-3 volleys before either they get charged, or you have to move your troops up in their line of fire. Bows on the other hand can continue to fire for the entire battle, and their killing power is not to be underestimated. Even in castle sieges, when you need to pull your ranged units off the walls to defend against climbers, archers can just pull back and continue to fire over the walls, while guns will just sit there looking stupid. On the flipside, guns are borderline useless in when you're sieging a castle, since matchlocks have poo poo accuracy and will never hit anything through those walls. My suggestion would be to have 1 matchlock for every 2 bows you put into an army. You can adjust this as you go up and get Tercos or Matchlock sam, which are better suited to melee and you might feel more comfortable swaping out some frontline melee with Tercos, who can unleash 2-3 devestating volleys and then charge into melee. Also I know you didn't ask specifically, but on the subject of gunpowder cannons in vanilla are pretty pointless, as sad as it is. They can't be moved at all, have horrid reload, and don't have enough accuracy to be of much help. Even in sieges, they're more likely to run out of ammo before taking down a gate or archery tower. They also slow your army down.  Hope that helps. Sydin fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Sep 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 07:33
|
|
|
I had a FEELING cannons were going to be a bit useless, for the simple reason that all siege weaponry is useless. But yeah, that makes sense from a troop deployment perspective; archers are less expensive and more versatile, so save the matchlocks for open fields with good firing lines to score morale breaks. Thanks for the suggestion!
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 07:38
|
|
|
Oh and another thing I forgot: where guns really shine is killing elite troops. Unlike arrows, which have to chew through armor, matchlocks have incredibly high armor penetration. The consequence of this is that they shred elite units who survive arrow barrages because of higher than average armor like samurai. They're particularly useful if the Shimazu come knocking with armorsmith upgraded Kat sam. Bows will fire all day and only put a small dent in, while 2 matchlocks opening up will not only trash their morale, but shred their ranks too. If used right, you can use strategic matchlocks to help a mostly Ashigaru army take on pockets of more elite troops with a sudden matchlock volley into elite units followed by an ashi charge.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 07:49
|
|
|
The reason I like matchlocks are because no matter what you are fighting they are useful. A cavalry charge is dangerous, but 2 units of Otomo matchlock ashigaru will shred any single unit of cavalry. After the initial volleys I usually pull back my guns and use them to prevent flanking attacks, or turn them into flanking units themselves. I had a rather good defensive position on a hill which forced the AI to charge upwards, and one unit of ashigaru was able to rout a unit of katana cavalry before it reached them. Horses are large targets and have rather few samurai per unit, and when they cant get into the melee fast enough they get shredded. The massive losses and the morale penalty from the guns were enough. If you manage to find a steep hill it is possible to set up so that the matchlocks fire over the heads of your own troops and into the opponent. It requires a very steep hill and a defensive battle but when you can pull it off it really pays off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 09:05
|
|
|
Yukitsu posted:I'm not a nice person, and I'm definitely not a nice teacher. When people are saying that they're in a bad spot, and want a look at things, I'm not there to pat them on the shoulder and tell them they're doing a good job, I'm just going to list all the things that went wrong  taremva posted:If you manage to find a steep hill it is possible to set up so that the matchlocks fire over the heads of your own troops and into the opponent. It requires a very steep hill and a defensive battle but when you can pull it off it really pays off. I'm curious, when fighting against gunpowder-heavy armies, is it possible to do the reverse slope defence? It would make any weapon that fires in a straight line useless until the unit gets to the top of the hill, at which point it's really close to your dedicated melee troops. my dad fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Sep 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 09:55
|
|
|
shalcar posted:Too many words. Wow dude. I'm pretty sure none of us like Yukitsu either, but seriously. No need to go Helldump on him. A simple  would have sufficed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 10:15
|
|
|
my dad posted:I'm curious, when fighting against gunpowder-heavy armies, is it possible to do the reverse slope defence? It would make any weapon that fires in a straight line useless until the unit gets to the top of the hill, at which point it's really close to your dedicated melee troops. Very much so. I've used this to great effect running mostly-melee armies in Fall of the Samurai.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 10:28
|
|
|
my dad posted:
You know, if you are fighting gunpowder heavy armies in vanilla, you can basically just wait until it is raining, then laugh. Basically guns are a sometimes food. When things work out (defending castles in particular), they can inflict massive casualties. But it is way too risky to rely on them. Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Sep 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 11:58
|
|
|
Oh hey cool a bunch of posts in this pretty great lp I wonder what ... 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 12:08
|
|
|
Nop,e gonna ignore the argument, focus on the advice. Right, so you're Takeda. The fact you don't have cavalry....concerns me. As Shalcar mentioned, cavalry move REALLY QUICK over the stategic map, and so work as a great reaction force to park in a central location and put out fires. And since Takeda has the best cavalry in the game for cheaper, they can get away a cavalry stack running around. But yeah, given my experience I'd either retool some of your provinces into money generators if they're relatively 'safe' from invasion, and use the profits to raise a cavalry army and a couple of navies to defend yourself. God knows, in my Date game, it was a fleet escorted by the black Ship that invaded me from the north that spellec my downfall, since I didn't have either a navy or a reaction force set up to guard my backlines. You have more fronts to deal with than I did, but the logic is the same. Also, yeah, throw some more elites into those stacks. Ashigaru can only carry you so far before they just break against heavy samurai units. Edit: Also, if Chisato dies, gonna have a sad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 13:46
|
|
|
So, what is considered "Baby's First Strategy Game"? I have Civ V, but there's this new game on Steam called "Rise of Venice" that looks simple enough for me to handle while still having interesting twists like a senate that must approve your levelling-up and an extended family that you can send on missions AC:Brotherhood-style. Has anyone tried "Rise of Venice" and is it worth dropping 40 bucks on Steam for it?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 19:42
|
|
|
Quiet Python posted:So, what is considered "Baby's First Strategy Game"? I have Civ V, but there's this new game on Steam called "Rise of Venice" that looks simple enough for me to handle while still having interesting twists like a senate that must approve your levelling-up and an extended family that you can send on missions AC:Brotherhood-style. What sort of game are you looking for? I mean strategy is kinda general.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 19:47
|
|
|
Quiet Python posted:So, what is considered "Baby's First Strategy Game"? I have Civ V, but there's this new game on Steam called "Rise of Venice" that looks simple enough for me to handle while still having interesting twists like a senate that must approve your levelling-up and an extended family that you can send on missions AC:Brotherhood-style. "Babby's First Strategy Game" would probably have to be something fairly polished, with well explained mechanics, multiple goals to chose between instead of just the one (such as Total War's goal of "WAAAUGH!"). For that Civ V is actually a pretty good starting point. As for what else you'd look for, it all depends on what you want. Want the "strategy" of building a better city/empire? Empire building games like Tropico 4 or Anno 1404/2070 might appeal to you. Want the strategy of placing units on the field? Something like Total War is better. As Fangz said "strategy" is a very wide blanket description. As for Rise of Venice? It looks more like an empire building game sort of strategy. It only came out 3 days ago, so who knows. Also, here is not the place to ask, you'll be better served by looking for a thread about it in the general Games subforum than looking for information here in the LP subforum.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 19:57
|
|
|
I checked the Games forum but couldn't find anything for "Rise" or even strategy games in general. I'll look again. I like to get rich and build stuff in games, so I guess empire-building is what I'm looking for. I don't mind fighting the occasional battle, but I'm a rotten general on the whole. I enjoyed playing Sid Meier's Pirates on the C-64, and have spent a fair bit of time with more casual games like the Tradewinds and Chocolatier series on PC. Crusader Kings alternately scares and confuses me, hence why I'm looking for something a little less hardcore than that. The LPs are fun to read, but I don't think I'd ever be willing to spend the time necessary to play it properly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 20:58
|
|
|
Rise of Venice is a trading/economy sim with naval battle mechanics, if you've ever played a Patrician or Port Royale game it's basically the same game in the Mediterranean. I'm enjoying it but I'm a mutant that gets dopamine injected directly into my spine when I make sliders move and numbers turn into bigger numbers, if you are a similar mutant then give it a shot I guess  There's a Baby's First 4x called Warlock: Master of the Arcane that's basically Civ 5: Lite & Fantasy, set in the same universe as the Majesty games, and it's five bucks until the 8th. Or if you're willing to pay for a brand-new game on a maybe, the Rome faction in Rome 2: Total War is overpowered enough that if you play on easy and remember to beeline legionaries it may not be actually possible to lose unless you try really hard.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 21:36
|
|
|
...I much prefer the blowing stuff up, ala Master of Orion, or stabbing it, ala Shogun 2. However if you want to get rich and don't care so much about the combat I would recommend Galactic Civilizations 2 where you can happily fortify your tiny corner of the galaxy and be a fiscal mastermind. A city-builder such as Pharoah might be fun for you. Back on topic, Shogun 2 updated today, and I had trouble getting my Yari Ashigaru to cover a wall that the enemy were scaling. They just stared mindlessly at it after I gave the order. Is this a newer bug or an older one? Meanwhile, I have a lot of LP here to catch up on. I've been playing the campaign (somewhat incompetently) on normal as Hojo. I've had some success using fire bombs even in field battles. However, I've been having people declare war on me, take a castle and a few casulties before I bribe their smaller cities/armies out from under them and retaliate. I've been garrisoning with two yari ashigaru and two bowman ashigaru. If you actually want to stop invaders at a chokepoint (without being on a war footing) is it possible, and how much of a standing garrison do you need? I have recently ended one war and allied with another power, so other than Ikko Ikki, I'm at peace again and ready to invest in infrastructure and professional samurai. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 30, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 22:00
|
|
|
LordSloth posted:Back on topic, Shogun 2 updated today, and I had trouble getting my Yari Ashigaru to cover a wall that the enemy were scaling. They just stared mindlessly at it after I gave the order. Is this a newer bug or an older one? Yeah, that's a common glitch with putting units on walls that generally springs from conflicting or overlapping move order (ie: You ordered multiple units to the walls, and one units position overlaps with another's). Just cancel and reissue move order, and be careful that the yellow dots that show where the guys are going aren't overlapping with any other units moving to or on the walls. You can hold the space bar to see the move orders of all units to double check. quote:However, I've been having people declare war on me, take a castle and a few casulties before I bribe their smaller cities/armies out from under them and retaliate. I've been garrisoning with two yari ashigaru and two bowman ashigaru. If you actually want to stop invaders at a chokepoint (without being on a war footing) is it possible, and how much of a standing garrison do you need? There's really no one size for garrisons. If the you're looking at an equal quality match up (Ashi vs Ashi) then you want to have about one guy for every three of theirs. Yes, wall are that good.  If they're throwing a higher quality army at you though (Monks or Sam to your Ashi), you'll want something much bigger.Alternatively, you can use ninjas to sabotage enemy armies to stop them from moving for a turn. Create a large stack that's strategically positioned near multiple fronts and have a ninja or two nearby. If you get declared on, run the ninja into their territory and sabotage their army until you can get the bigger stack into the closest border town.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 00:28
|
|
|
Just wanted to say thanks for this LP! I've had Shogun 2 sitting on my Steam account for a while now, but I always find Total War games very difficult to start out with. I just had no clue on how the economy worked when I first tried playing, and built myself into a negative food hole from which I never recovered. I also had no clue that I had to specialize my provinces, and ended up with too many unit buildings and no others. This LP has been a great resource at learning the basics of the economy and the battle system.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 01:17
|
|
|
Yukitsu posted:And remember, Shalcar's profit expectations for a market are only for building a market. I don't recall him figuring how many turns it would take for a return from a market that required a stronger castle. The castle triples the price and if you've built 5 markets in that manner, it also eliminates any growth bonus from the markets. If I had to guess, I'd guess it takes around 40-60 turns to pay off a market/castle combo. All economic analysis, even in video games, is bound to be somewhat simplistic. If it wasn't we'd have much better AI for games than we do. For instance, Shalcar also doesn't take into account the opportunity value of buying two units to capture a very fertile province that already has an upgraded farm versus building a farm upgrade in a fertile province. So you might say "well, clearly you should just take the new province" (to which I respond "how many units is 'a couple'?"). Okay, now what if that province is threatened? What's the economic cost of losing the province you abandoned to get your new province for one turn? Two turns? Should we add uncertainty into the calculations? What if a hidden ninja sabotages your army so you can't recapture the province like you thought you would? Or what if leaving that province undefended causes a long-time ally to seize the opportunity and attack? Now we need to calculate some perversely complex Maximum Expected Utility for every conceivable action in every conceivable game state (up to and including how many units you lose in a battle). This is all stuff that ends up being intuitive to good players, but can you see how simple advice like "you didn't take into account <this stuff>" can be detrimental to newer players? It ends up being a combinatorial explosion of things to consider, and it's somewhat paralyzing when you get stuck in this depth first search of possibilities for every action. Shalcar's analysis might be somewhat simplistic by necessity, but it gives a very good, solid, reasoned foundation for a newer player playing on normal -- allowing them to build a somewhat strong economy while developing an instinctual feel for when it's more appropriate to take risks or do something fancy or seemingly non-optimal. And feeling out when to focus on long-term growth or when to focus on immediate returns. The reason your strategies may only work for you (according to your friends) may not be that your strategies are unsound, luck, or fairy dust. It's likely that you have a deeper instinctual understanding of the game than a conscious understanding of the game. You have the ability to "feel" the game and react, so your strategies are actually much more layered and complex than you think they are (and, honestly, I think is true of Shalcar and Sydin too to a degree. You all are great, but not the Day[9] of Total War) -- possibly too complex and nuanced to even properly explain without a 6 week correspondence course. That doesn't mean your advice is universally terrible, but it might help explain why you're such a good player yet most people seem to either be baffled at your advice, or actively start losing once they try to follow it. You're basically asking people why they don't search Google for the answers to their problems when they're still trying to figure out how to plug in their mouse. I hope this counts as on topic. I'm just trying to explain why condemning Shalcar for using somewhat simplistic analysis is, in my opinion, a little off base in the context of helping people learn the game. I'll kill the post if people think it was bad form given the circumstances. vvvv Okay, I'll leave it here since I think it's related to learning Shogun 2 (and that was the intent of the post, not to bash anyone), but let's just forget about the whole thing then (basically I advise not responding to my  ).
Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Oct 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 02:09
|
|
|
While I agree with much of what you said and it really isn't off topic, I've been passed along a message via shalcar that he and Yuki have exchanged words via PM, with the result that Yuki has decided to no longer post in the thread. Therefore, can we all please drop any and all topics related to the rumblings above and move on? I am quite enjoying this LP as well and would hate to see it derailed and locked before shalcar even has a chance to get off his probation and post the next update. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 03:07
|
|
|
To try and get this thread somewhat back on topic (and while we wait for shalcar to come off probation in half a day), I will say that looking through some of his advice to BurningStone made me make a couple of changes to my own current campaign that I mentioned quite a bit earlier in this thread. Sure, it's a very different situation all-together, but every bit of advice helps. I'm playing Shimazu and haven't even kicked off Realm Divide yet in turn 90+ as I hold only around 14(?) or so provinces and am allied with all of my relevant avenues of expansion. Still trying to work at it though, by picking off minor clans close by when they reassert themselves after rebelling and breaking off of one of the major clan's blobs (has happened at least 3 times so far in my game, have taken over one of those provinces and am angling for a second in a few turns). I'm also doing the Monk fomenting a rebellion in a lightly defended province belonging to an ally (in this case the Chosokabe), then sweeping in with an army after the rebels take over thing, but it's slow going with my Monk's low success rate (currently around 10% or so). Successfully pulled it off once, and now my Monk is constantly trying to do it again in a second province but is failing at it. At least he hasn't been executed for it yet, and is about to hit rank 3 with one more failed mission, so I might have a better success rate after that. Have a sizable army nearby under my Daimiyo's Heir for when it happens, too. I still control all of Kyushu and a couple of provinces in southern Honshu along with a smattering of provinces in the middle of Honshu around Settsu, Inaba, and Harima looking to connect them in order to more easily defend them once Realm Divide comes. Now allied with the Chosokabe, Hattori, and Uesugi, and they're still the major blobs in their areas: the Chosokabe holding most of southern Honshu except what I've managed to nibble away and all of Shikoku except Awa, which broke away and formed a minor clan which I plan on taking out soon with an army nearby if the Chosokabe don't get to it first, the Hattori still strong around Kyoto, the Uesugi still holding most of the Kanto region. The Hojo are still around, with a couple of provinces on the coast of Kanto and the Uesugi unable to expel them so far, as are the Date who are the masters of the north, save the two provinces at the extreme north of Honshu, held by rebels for a while now. Looking over shalcar's earlier advice in the thread, I realized that I needed to get Metsuke up as fast as I could in my highest wealth provinces, which I now have done. The new advice made me also realized that I had Markets that I had foolishly built or had left after I had conquered them, which I burned down to make room for other things. No excess Rice Exchanges, though, so I guess I didn't mess up that badly in planning... Noticed that my armies were a bit light, with only two half full major stacks running around, led by my Daimiyo and Heir, filled almost entirely with samurai, not all that much ashigaru, and no cavalry at all. My economy can support it, since I'm making around 9k a turn and have over around 25k banked, but quite a bit of that is trade, and that'll fall apart once Realm Divide hits. Queued up some ashigaru to fill out some of those stacks and possibly get a third stack up and running once they fill out. Started plopping down Sake Dens in some of my more economically focused provinces, and putting in some more military buildings in others, especially in Satsuma to take advantage of the Blacksmith, in Higo to start getting cavalry online, and in Buzen to crank out archers. Demolished my weaponsmith in Satsuma to turn it into an armorsmith, since giving more attack to units with already high attack is overkill, but giving them more armor increases their survivability, which is always important... Need to finish researching Heaven and Earth so I can actually get Encampments and eventually Armories online once those are researched, so I can recruit more troops for when I need them. Went deep into swords, so I might finish that off sooner rather than later after I finish the previously mentioned research. Have a decent enough navy, which might need some beefing up soon, but for now should be ok. Made some Ninjas so I can scout around with them and see what's in store for me when Realm Divide hits and my allies aren't as friendly anymore and start sending armies my way. I would upload my own game and see what you guys recommend, but I don't know when I'll be able to get back on the computer that holds the game and my saves on it. Still, from what I've said here and earlier in thread, any more advice can only help. Sure, I might not be able to act on it for a while, but it'll give me an idea of what to do when I am able to do so. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Oct 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 04:46
|
|
|
Rivers of Gold Autumn of 1548  The sergeant of the guard shook his head. "Look at these merchants, never done a real days work in all their lives." His colleague nodded. "They value gold more than food. It will end poorly for them." With the construction of the Market in Yamato, we have completed one of our most critical early game goals, the construction of five markets. With this goal done, we are well on the way to ensuring a powerful economic engine that will propel us throughout the game and to victory. Market investment is now much less attractive, with the continued development of these five provinces bringing the best returns on our investment (not that a Market in the "free" building slot of a captured province is a bad idea!). However, with Iga as one of these provinces, we will want to migrate to the next Fertile or Very Fertile province we take in order to really get the best returns on our investment, which will free up Iga to provide other services. Iga was our best choice early on, but now we can afford to be a little more choosy about getting the very best returns we can.  Along the western provinces, men mustered to defend the honour of the Hattori. To wear the uniform of a Hattori soldier was a mark of pride, each man knowing that they were better equipped and trained than any other soldier in Japan. More garrison troops are needed on our eastern fronts to help secure our holdings and to bolster our armed forces. To that end, we recruit a Hatttori Yari Ashigaru in both Settsu and Kawachi.  "She's away!" yelled the dockmaster, as the newly built Bune slid into the water from the drydock. "Let those Miyoshi try their luck! She's the finest vessel afloat." "Not bad for a mountain clan" noted his assistant, observing the rows of samurai lining the deck as the ship took her first voyage. "I think you are right, no other ship afloat could touch her." The docks in Settsu have not been idle, with the construction of a Medium Bune, the heaviest warship we can produce at the moment. Both fast and relatively powerful, the Medium Bune serves as the mainstay of most early game fleets. With our newly christened ship, we should be able to lift the blockade on Settsu and restore our trade route.   The Medium Bune is a flexible early game warship, travelling with the speed of lighter ships, yet carrying a respectable complement of archers and swordsmen. Designed to be able to both board and capture lighter ships, yet also able to provide ranged support against heavier ships, the Medium Bune serves as a solid compliment to any other ship. Ingame Encyclopaedia - Medium Bune posted:Medium or "seki" bunes are likely to be the main element of any clan navy, thanks to their size and general "handiness". They have reasonably strong hulls and carry enough crew to give them the ability to support bigger ships. They also retain enough speed and manoeuvrability to combat the lighter, faster ships. This puts them somewhere between the o ataka bune and kobaya in terms of their uses and deployment. Because they are not specialised, medium bunes will not be able to match speeds with lighter ships or the strength of heavy vessels, but they have versatility on their side.  "Please, be seated" implored Yasunaga. "You have travelled far and should rest." "Thank you, but I will remain standing" replied the monk. "Throughout your lands, it is beyond doubt that Heaven itself favoured the Hattori cause." "Heaven rewards both the just and the cunning" noted Yasunaga. "Yet blessings are as swiftly withdrawn as they are bestowed." "Then let us get to the heart of the matter" responded the monk. "The people need a place of spiritual fulfilment, but such spiritual leadership must come from you, their Daimyo." "Only a fool angers Heaven" stated Yasunaga. "Yet to act rashly is also to bring about disaster. I will give the people temples soon enough." Now that we have reached Equal Fields, we are able to take our research into other key areas. The first of these is Zen, which not only boosts province happiness (allowing you to need less garrison troops), but it unlocks the construction of the first building of the Buddhist chain, the Buddhist Temple. This gives us access to the Monk agents who are critical in preventing or reducing the spread of other religions (such as the Ikko Ikki and Christianity, both real threats in this game), but can also provide happiness bonuses to provinces or raise the morale of friendly troops.   Ingame Encyclopaedia - Zen posted:The word "Zen" means meditation and concentration, and those who live their lives by its principles develop great self-understanding through a life of discipline and contemplation. Followers of Zen are not expected to study religious texts, as their philosophy is one of interaction. The wisdom of Zen is passed from teacher to student not through words, but through thought and feeling. Zen promotes the idea of harmony amongst the people and encourages a sense of belonging, for everyone has a defined place in the world. This philosophy lowers the likelihood of rebellions, providing everyone shares this religious conviction.  "Two January" grinned Muneaki, collecting the cards. "Seems I can do no wrong today" "You always get dealt the best hands, it seems" his friend noted, sourly. "How are you possibly meeting your targets when all you do is play cards all day?" "I have... help" Muneaki replied, evasively. Our first naturally levelled up Metsuke agent! Having served 8 turns, he has accumulated the 21 experience required to reach the second rank. As a rule, Metsuke tend to level up primarily from the experienced gained in this way, unlike the other agent types who tend to get the bulk of their experience from active missions (which give 15xp per success).  "That's not all you have" his friend smirked. "Rumour tells me that you have the local magistrate in your pocket." "What's the point of having a rich family if you never use it?" retorted Muneaki, defensively. "That's perks." "He's corrupt!" his friend insisted. "How do you know he's working for you?" "Oh, that's easy" grinned Muneaki. "We pay him more than anyone else and if we ever find out he's not been honest, I'll personally kill his family in front of him. Legally." Once again, we would be mad to do anything but put points into Magistrate, it's simply too good to ignore!      Overseeing armies provides a loyalty boost to any generals in the same stack as the Metsuke, at a rate of 1 loyalty for every 3 stars of the Metsukes skill. It can be a useful stopgap in an emergency, but it's never worth building a Metsuke around. Instead, we take the -5% to assassination, as Metsuke are very costly to replace and anything that keeps them alive longer is a good idea (even if it tends to be Monks or other Metsuke that kill them).  Muneaki placed his cards on the table. "Two full suits, December and January. Winters death chill." "I give up" his friend stated. "You have the most ungodly luck." Get used to seeing slight variations on this theme for all the Metsuke, it's one of the few places where Shogun 2 really drops the ball on giving real flexibility of choice.  "You wanted to see me, my Lord?" asked Tokinaga, bowing. Yasunaga nodded. "Your work has been beyond my expectations." "Thank you, my Lord" replied Tokinaga. "There is still much work to be done." The other of our first batch of Metsuke, Tokinaga, has also spent his requisite 8 turns and gained a rank for it. I can taste the koku already.  "The reward of toil is more toil" replied Yasunaga, dryly. "No sooner do you fix one problem, than another springs to take its place." "As my Lord says" noted Tokinaga. "We toil endlessly to bring light into darkness." "Toil is not the only reward" responded Yasunaga, handing Tokinaga a sealed scroll. "Inside this scroll is my declaration raising you to Omi magistrate. It is a promotion well earned." That slight feeling of deju-vu will only get stronger, I assure you. Since I have not been dropped on my head, we take Magistrate.    Our retainer choices here are much more interesting, with one providing extra repression at the cost of happiness, while the other increases our ability to eliminate enemy agents. Why doesn't the first retainer simply give +1 repression? Well, Happiness and Repression are different things, although they both cancel out unhappiness. If a province has more happiness than unhappiness, it gains a growth boost, while if a province's unhappiness is held in check by repression, it gets no such boost (So the encyclopaedia and tooltip say. I've never seen it in action and couldn't make it work). As such, this retainer gives you the choice of increased stability at the price of reduced potential growth. The second retainer is much more attractive, as apprehending is how Metsuke eliminate enemy agents. As such, it makes it more likely that our Metsuke will succeed at eliminating his rivals. While this might not sound great if he just sits at home and generates koku, it gives you a better chance at taking out enemy Metsuke or Monks (Ninjas if you spot them, too) who are gunning for him!  Tokinaga looked stunned. "Thank you, my Lord." "There is a long tradition with rewards for the most promising agents" noted Yasunaga, clapping his hands sharply. The doors opened and a guard brought in a magnificent dog, sleek with gleaming jet black fur. "It is traditional that the greatest agents be given a hunting dog" stated Yasunaga. "Hundreds of years ago, a man who could talk the sun into shining was given such a gift by a simple farmer. Now, I give such a gift unto you." We decide on the Hunting Dog, as the boost to apprehending translates into a real survivability boost against his biggest threat, enemy agents.   "Sarge, why the mobilisation to Settsu?" the soldier asked. "Nothing out there but vassals and some weirdos to the north, right?" "They don't tell me" spat the sergeant. "So they bloody well won't be telling you!" With Kawachi pacified and having no external threats, we strip the garrison and send them to Settsu to make our borders significantly more secure. All our fronts are fairly volatile at the moment, so any troops we can scrounge need to go to bolstering our position.  "Well, I don't have any trouble tracking these men" thought Chisato as she followed the wounded patrol. "What was their commander thinking ordering a frontal assault?" Silently, she cursed at herself for letting her mind wander. What did it matter why these men did what they did? Her mission was to find out their strength and get out, not get inside their heads. Secretly, she could not help but sympathise with the men. What if she had been born male and been enlisted? What if she was expected to die just so that the nobles could live? Yasunaga wouldn't do that to her... would he? Further exploration with Chisato reveals the best possible outcome for us, not only did the Imagawa attack the Kitabatake, but they were repulsed, inflicting heavy casualties to both sides. The Kitabatake have laid a trap by hiding their forces in the forest to the south of Ise to try to lure the Imagawa back, but one thing they did not count upon is the deadly strike of the Hattori!  The Imagawa force (purple flag) suffered heavily, losing a significant number of their troops and a general.  The remaining Kitabatake defenders also fared reasonably poorly, losing the vast majority of their melee troops and suffering heavy damage on their ranged units.   Despite weeks of trying, there was only one way into the Ise stronghold, up. Nervously, Chisato looked up at the tall wall, far bigger than anything she had scaled before. "Nothing for it" she thought. "I must be over this wall and sabotage those gates. There is no other way in." Climbing slowly but steadily, Chisato noticed her leg start to tremble. "Deep breaths" she thought. "Don't panic. Take your time." Feeling more confident, she began to move even further upwards. Suddenly, the stone facade under her left foot gave way and she lost her grip, tumbling down the wall... I want that province and there is nothing that will stand in my way. Chisato is dispatched to open the gates for us as she has done so many times before.  Click here to see the mission!  Desperately, she flung her arms out and was rewarded with a grip on a stone. No longer tumbling, she slammed into the wall, the crunch in her chest and pop from her arm wracking her whole body with agony. Somehow, she found the strength to hold on and got purchase. Slowly she managed to climb down, popping her arm back into its socket. "These ribs are broken" she winced, trying to take a deep breath. "I've failed." This time, however, her formidable skills fail to get the job done. Luckily for us (and her!), she escapes with her life, ready to strike another day.  "You can't do this!" the Kitabatake Daimyo sputtered. "We were trading partners! We have been loyal Taira supporters since the first Shogun!" "I have no autonomy in this matter" noted the Hattori ambassador. "The declaration of war comes from Yasunaga himself." The Kitabatake Daimyo sighed. "Then my family is dead. Go then, tell your Daimyo that history will remember his butchery." Even with the gates up, We can't let an opportunity like this pass us by. A declaration of war is sent to the Kitabatake, although we decide against calling our allies to help. If something goes wrong and I have made a miscalculation, I don't want one of them swooping in and taking our prize.   "The leaves fall gently from the trees, men march like earthen heartbeat" boomed Taketoshi. "THE SLOWEST MAN DIGS THE LATRINES. MOVE!" Gathering all the forces we have available in Yamato, Taketoshi marches out to Ise. Although he is commanding a much smaller force than the one that took Kawachi, the half-stack should be enough to see the job done.  The night was dark, little light escaping from the covered lanterns, the black Hattori armour seeming to drink the light. In near total silence, the men marched, discipline unexpected from seemingly untrained ashigaru. A cry of alarm rose from the stronghold and mighty drums boomed out their warning. "Let's give the bastards hell!" shouted Taketoshi. "Hit them so hard their ancestors feel it!" Lanterns were revealed, drenching the Hattori army in light, appearing as nothing so much as demons from the very soil itself. Weapons at the ready, the men moved with firm purpose. If we had not detected the Kitabatake army in ambush, it would have been a very nasty surprise! Unluckily for them, the Hattori own the night and turn the ambush around, launching a swift and deadly night attack such that their reinforcements can't fight in this battle. What would have been 2 Hattori Katana Samurai, 4 Hattori Yari Ashigaru and 3 Hattori Bow Ashigaru against 1 Yari Samurai, ~3 Bow Samurai, 1 Yari Ashigari and 1 Samurai Retainers has been reduced to the much easier 1 Yari Ashigaru and 1 Samurai Retainers. This is the first Stronghold we have ever attacked and while it is a more difficult nut to crack compared to a Fort, it won't slow Taketoshi down in the slightest.  Click here to see the battle! Chaos reigned for the Kitabatake defenders, as men, bleary eyed from being awoken, struggled to put on armour and be ready as curses filled the air. Ashigaru yelled in surprise as Hattori forces swarmed over the walls, quickly securing the gates. The early Hattori attackers were driven back as the defenders recovered from their surprise and the tide was shifting. Hattori victory was almost certain, but the cost would be brutal. "I'll take the lot of you!" screamed Taketoshi, bursting through the gates and spurring his horse into a collection of Kitabatake samurai. "Let's see if you can fight as well as you die!" The charge caught the samurai by surprise, two felled before they could react. Quickly they recovered and fanned out to surround Taketoshi. He grinned, the light glinting off his teeth in the darkness. This was going to be fun. Our first Stronghold map and we can see that the Stronghold, while still consisting of a single concourse, has a much larger area covered by the walls. In addition, it has two arrow towers which rain deadly shafts upon the attacking forces although their location is not visible on this larger map.  Taketoshi blocked blow after blow, never able to find an opening to counter-attack. His horse took a hit, bleeding heavily from its left flank. Taketoshi blocked a blow that would surely have been fatal, there was no time to calm his now nearly panicked horse. He saw the strike coming. In an instant, he knew that to block it would leave him open, but there was no way out. "There are worse ways to die" he thought, moving his blade to intercept. Seeing their chance, the Kitabatake samurai moved in, but turned suddenly as a tide of Hattori samurai crashed into them, sweeping them into the melee. "You miss me yet?" laughed the samurai captain. "Lucky I was just in time!" Once again, Taketoshi demonstrates that few in Japan could hope to match his tactical mastery, taking 1:1 losses while taking on fully functional fortifications, the vast majority of those easily replaceable ashigaru.  The Kitabatake defenders never stood a chance, those who did not turn and run were cut down, unable to compete to the ferocity of the Hattori samurai. Katana Samurai  . At this point of the game it's easy to see why they are thought of so highly, taking a mere 6 losses for a full 52 kills, almost ten to one in favour of them! While the ashigaru did do the bulk of the killing and the dying, that's to be expected because you just don't want to throw your high quality troops away on things like taking gates when you have ashigaru to do that for you, especially early on when samurai losses are difficult to replace. Taketoshi and his bodyguard break through the 10:1 barrier, demonstrating that he is as fearless as he is skilful. "The town is ours!" cheered the samurai captain. "Another fine victory!" "Tell the men they did well today" replied Taketoshi. "I'm proud of all of them." "I will, my Lord" replied the captain, turning to leave. "One last thing" responded Taketoshi. "Thanks." Another province, this one with the added advantage of making Yamato completely safe from attack, so it doesn't even increase the number of provinces we need to defend! Our pace is good, but now we have a very serious problem indeed, where do we go from here? Taking the province does have one other nice advantage though, which is that the Imagawa army that was here now gets teleported back to their closest province, which just coincidentally happens to be the next target of the Ikko Ikki. Anything that slows them down or even blunts their attack is a huge plus right now when they are expanding so rapidly.   "Ise has been well loved" noted the attendant. "Much effort has gone into developing and strengthening the people of this province. Her walls are tall, her barracks are large, her farms cared for, her roads straight and paved. Any Daimyo would be proud to call Ise their own." Ise is a very wealthy province with the Holy Site speciality, making it the sister province to Yamato. A fantastic choice for either an economic powerhouse or a warrior monk juggernaut, it's a province that anyone would be happy to have. Ise contains a Stronghold, Archery Dojo, Yari Drill Yard, Improved Irrigation (Fertile Soil), Roads, Trading Port and Mountain Hermitage. drat, what an amazing province! Old hands at Shogun 2 will notice that the AI had a very clear motive for developing this province in this way, namely, construction of the infrastructure to enable the recruiting of Warrior Monks. Really, REALLY good warrior monks. While it's nowhere near developed enough to produce them just yet (nor do we have the arts to finish it right now), it's going to save a good dozen turns and several thousand koku when we are in a position to recruit them. This is a major coup and frees up Yamato to focus on other options. While it might not be able to produce warrior monks right now, it can produce both yari and bow samurai, making it our only province which can produce either of those elite troops.   The first building in the Archery Chain, the Archery Dojo allows the recruitment of Bow Samurai, Bandits when paired a Sake Den (Hattori only) and Daikyu Samurai when paired with a Hunting Lodge (Chosokabe only). Ingame Encyclopaedia - Archery Dojo posted:The ability to shoot accurately should be prized in all archers, but it requires training and dedication to achieve. An archery range allows basic archery to be taught, and bow-armed units to be recruited. It does not, however, teach the advanced skills of archery: it is sufficient here to hit the target and do so in the proper manner. Combat will teach men how to keep firing when under threat!   The first building in the Yari Chain, the Yari Drill Yard allows the recruitment of Yari Samurai, Bulletproof Samurai when paired with an Armoury (Date only) and Longspear Ashigaru when paired with an Encampment (Oda only). Ingame Encyclopaedia - Yari Drill Yard posted:The drill yard allows the recruitment and training of yari-armed samurai units. Using a spear effectively in battle requires training, discipline and trust.   Roads, the second building in the Infrastructure chain, further increases the movement speed of armies and agents that use them, as well as providing a province wide boost to unit replenishment. Ingame Encyclopaedia - Roads posted:Roads improve the movement extent of armies and agents in a province. Everything moves faster thanks to the improved surface. This also improves the replenishment rate of casualties. The comings and goings along the road are also carefully watched, meaning that line of sight is improved also.   One of two possible upgrades to the Holy Site, the Mountain Hermitage further increases the bonus ranks to warrior monks recruited in the province. Ingame Encyclopaedia - Mountain Hermitage posted:This province has a site of religious significance. By developing this site, better monks can be produced for use on the battlefield as fanatical warriors. Alternatively, the site can be developed along less martial lines, and be inspirational to all the clan's warriors, increasing their morale on the battlefield. This more contemplative approach also allows monk agents to be trained to a high standard.  "This won't go unnoticed" observed Yasunaga. "The Shogun can't help but notice this. We have armies outside his door and our lands move to surround him on all sides." "If he tries to take Omi, I'll smash him!" announced Masanari. "If he moved against us, he would win easily" replied Yasunaga. "That is what stays his hand. There may come a time where even he can not delude himself into thinking he can win. When that day comes, the Hattori must be prepared." Taking another province is not all upside however, as it has pushed us even closer to Realm Divide, as this notification helpfully tells us. At 7 provinces big, we can see we are just under halfway towards Realm Divide, which tends to happen around 15 provinces. While we still have plenty of expansion to do before Realm Divide will be upon us, we need to keep laying the groundwork to ensuring we have a relatively smooth transition into it.  "All traces of the Kitabatake have been eliminated?" asked Taketoshi. "There must be no doubt as to who owns the province." "In the city, yes" replied the samurai captain. "But the Daimyo and his family have not been found, but their guard was here." With the loss of their only province, the Kitabatake are no more. While we mourn the loss of trading partners, it's still a net income plus for us, in addition to the huge military potential that Ise gives us. They died so that we might rule Japan, Godspeed you glorious bastards.   "Then they escaped" replied Taketoshi. "He will have taken all the men he can muster and his family to try to retake the city. It's what I would do." Unfortunately, while our sneaky night attack meant that taking the castle was easy, it hasn't dealt with that giant army out the front of the stronghold which is in the perfect position to run around and burn down all of our newly captured structures and cost us a fortune in the process. Something will need to be done, but Chisato is already exhausted from her earlier sabotage attempt on the stronghold.  The brush with death had awoken a little spark somewhere in Taketoshi. Perspectives seemed somewhat more distant somehow, as if he was looking from a different place than before. He could feel something observing his actions, some small thoughts at the back of his mind. Plans about plans began to dance through his head, leaving nothing but confusion and a small pool of clarity. None can doubt the battle prowess of Taketoshi, especially now that he has won enough battles to reach rank 3 (and helpfully push our tax rate even higher thanks to Commissioner for Finance!).  Thoughts came unbidden to Taketoshi's mind, words that burned with ghostly fire in the minds eye. "On a journey, wounded; My dream goes wandering over withered fields." Words burned within him, seeking release. Our options are quite varied, but right now we play it safe by taking a large boost to Bushido arts with the Poet skill. Since we are shortly about to get out of Chi arts and likely spend the rest of the game in Bushido, these boosts will knock off a turn from several of the arts I plan to get, making it a good deal this early on. It also happens to be a pre-requisite for the loyalty boosting skill I need to give him, but that's significantly less fun. Taketoshi always struck me as the poetic type.     Taketoshi shook himself from his daze. "Gather the men" he ordered. "We hunt the last of the Kitabatake." Taking all of our troops, we send Taketoshi to engage the Kitabatake rebels, but disaster strikes! While we have enough movement to leave the settlement, we don't have enough movement to start the battle, leaving us outside the settlement but without having engaged the enemy. Luckily for us, both armies are *inside* each others engagement ranges, so they are forced to attack each other, they can't move until the battle is resolved (This isn't quite true, if it happens to you, launch the attack and then hit retreat and your army will ignore their engagement zone to run away).  "Miyoshi ship spotted!" yelled the lookout. "They are making sail for us!" "Then they are fools" laughed the captain. "We are no merchants, cowed by some pretty armour. We are warriors of the Hattori!" "Your orders sir?" inquired the first mate. The captain grinned. "We attack! Row like you mean it!" The blockade on Settsu has gone on for too long and cost me too many koku. Our lone Medium Bune sallies forth against the Miyoshi force of 1 Bow Kobaya. Our Medium Bune is a much more serious warship than the Bow Kobaya and the power bar reflects that. The only real risk a Bow Kobaya poses to a Medium Bune is if the Bune is otherwise occupied or if the Bow Kobaya has access to fire arrows. This early on it's unlikely that any clan has the arts for fire arrows, so this should be a one sided affair.   The Bow Kobaya is a light, fast vessel with a relatively numerous archer compliment for its size. While it won't stand up to heavier vessels one on one, if given the chance to attack unopposed it will do incredible damage for the price. Bow Kobaya are also good for chasing down fleeing enemy vessels and boarding them to force surrender. Ingame Encyclopaedia - Bow Kobaya posted:The ship's purpose is to stay on the edges of a fleet, quickly moving to key points to provide fire wherever necessary. Its speed means it can avoid being boarded by soldiers from heavier, more powerful ships while harassing them with arrows. The crew of this vessel is not expected to launch boarding attacks, only soften up a target for other friendly ships. They also have the ability to fire flaming arrows for a short period of time, which are much more devastating than standard arrows. Ironically, the archers are also vulnerable to missile fire as the upper deck of the ship has no protection.  Click here to see the battle! "Duck!" yelled the first mate, as the arrows whistled overhead. "It seems they are in range, sir." "Then so are we" bellowed the captain, standing tall. "Return the favour! Full speed ahead, ready the grapnels!" Unlike battles at sea, coastal battles are more than open water, often taking place around peninsulas or small local islands, lending a real tactical nature to naval combat. Naval combat in Shogun 2 is one of it's most disliked aspects, something which I used to agree with, but the more I played the game I just realised that I had the wrong approach. Firstly, it's important to think of naval combat in the way that the Japanese of the time thought about it, as a form of land combat. Think of each boat as a unit of men, each with a purpose. The Bunes are your swordsmen, deadly in close combat and they want to engage and take the brunt of the attack. Bow Kobayas are your archers, deadly if left alone but easily taken out if they are engaged one on one by another, heavier ship. There are many other ships which we have not seen yet which fill out the roster and they almost all correlate to their associated land unit. Secondly, naval battles are not land battles with respect to morale. Ships move slowly and break relatively easily, which tends to cause a fleeing ship to turn around and come back into the fight again and again, especially in larger fights, which *is* very frustrating. The way to avoid this is to board lighter enemy ships, forcing them to surrender quickly, rather than using superior arrows to make them flee. If nothing else, the fact that ships tend to get away make navies really good for training up your generals quickly.  "They are coming about" reported the first mate. "They make to flee!" "I can see that" the captain replied. "Have the rowers work double time, we can't let them get away." Unluckily for us, the enemy Bow Kobaya escaped, despite the fact that the Medium Bune had started the boarding process when it routed. Routed boats tend to escape, regardless of how unlikely it was that they would get away. This is another frustration about naval combat, but it's rare that land armies are totally destroyed either.  "She's a faster ship, sir" noted the first mate. "We won't catch her if she plans on escaping." "drat it!" cursed the captain. "It would have made a fine addition to our little fleet." Oddly enough, the naval combat detail screen lists Deployed, Lost and Remaining in the context of the crew in your fleet, but the Kills column is for total ships destroyed. In this case, since we didn't sink or capture the Bow Kobaya we have 0 kills. In reality, we killed 29 of the 35 crew on board, so it's totally useless as a combat vessel until it is repaired.  "Capture aside sir, the port is secure" replied the first mate. "Shipping can resume." "Bah, merchants and gold" spat the captain. "Where is the honour in opening shipping lanes?" With the Miyoshi defeated, the blockade of Settsu is lifted and our trade with the Chosokabe can resume, further swelling our coffers with gold. Even without trade goods, the Hattori are becoming very wealthy indeed. How long can this run of good fortune last? Sneak Peak:An Unbreakable Blade... shalcar fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Oct 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 15:35
|
|
|
About that siege of Ise; Do you have a thing against just burning the gates down and walking inside? It tends to solve the problem of losing 10% of your forces going over the walls like that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
Wow, navel battles look pretty cool. I hope we get to see a larger one.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 20:47
|
|
|
Jade Star posted:About that siege of Ise; Do you have a thing against just burning the gates down and walking inside? It tends to solve the problem of losing 10% of your forces going over the walls like that. But then you have to pay to have the gate repaired. He's not made of money you know.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 20:57
|
|
|
Why didn't that naval battle give you the option of chasing down routers? In land combat the auto will usually do it better, but in naval combat its a great way to capture ships. Can you not do this in Shogun 2? I did it a ton in Empire/Napoleon and cant remember if they removed it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 21:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:02 |
|
|
Jade Star posted:About that siege of Ise; Do you have a thing against just burning the gates down and walking inside? It tends to solve the problem of losing 10% of your forces going over the walls like that. It can also be a major gamble if, as in this instance, there are enemy reinforcements in the province which can attack you post-siege, since the gate is wide open when THEY attack too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 21:44
|
|