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UPDATE ON PREVIOUS PAGE. Hahaha, holy poo poo, you actually won that fight. 
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Apr 19, 2014 12:33
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Goddammit that was a glorious defense!
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Apr 20, 2014 04:42
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It's pretty interesting how your situation can change so quickly in this game. All you need is an incredibly heroic victory. 
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Apr 20, 2014 04:52
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That was inspiring. Good work! I am looking forward to the twin missions of Tamashige and Nakasada. Two men could not be more different, but they both serve the Hattori.
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Apr 20, 2014 05:17
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 Good show, good show. Nice to see the tables finally turned on the Amako.Can disease in provinces kill generals stationed there like it can in other TW games, or is it just a passive debuff to the province like Earthquake/Fire? It's been so long since I've had it, I forgot. 
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Apr 20, 2014 05:21
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Ah. So, because of that multipronged assault, most of the troops weren't being morale-boosted by the general so it was easy to rout the ashi, and when they were gone everyone else got nervous?
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Apr 21, 2014 13:43
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Sydin posted:Can disease in provinces kill generals stationed there like it can in other TW games, or is it just a passive debuff to the province like Earthquake/Fire? It's been so long since I've had it, I forgot. Luckily for the generals in Shogun 2, the disease events are just passive modifiers to the provinces, so they can't kill generals or troops stationed there. Glazius posted:Ah. So, because of that multipronged assault, most of the troops weren't being morale-boosted by the general so it was easy to rout the ashi, and when they were gone everyone else got nervous? That's basically what happened. The Amako ashigaru lacked the numbers to feel secure (which is why I had every soldier available putting pressure on that side) and without the comforting aura of the general or the strength of numbers they lost their nerve, which in turn freaked out the samurai.
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Apr 21, 2014 15:21
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Gotta love Chain Routs. That was a really impressive play there. Fewer losses then I expected too.
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Apr 21, 2014 16:31
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shalcar posted:That's basically what happened. The Amako ashigaru lacked the numbers to feel secure (which is why I had every soldier available putting pressure on that side) and without the comforting aura of the general or the strength of numbers they lost their nerve, which in turn freaked out the samurai. Don't forget that two of the Kat Sam were at half strength, meaning they routed even faster than usual. I expected that Shalcar would win the fight, but I did not expect that he would annihilate every Amako soldier. How exactly does the computer calculate post-battle casualties?
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Apr 21, 2014 17:52
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:Don't forget that two of the Kat Sam were at half strength, meaning they routed even faster than usual. I expected that Shalcar would win the fight, but I did not expect that he would annihilate every Amako soldier. How exactly does the computer calculate post-battle casualties? They don't rout faster than usual actually, the unit initial size is determined by what they started the fight at, not what their unit max is. In addition, the largest morale effects are from losing raw numbers of troops rather than a percentage of unit size, so weak units actually rout at less men total than if the unit had started at full strength. In practise it doesn't change much because being locally outnumbered or outflanked is worth more than most morale impacts. The computer calculates post battle casulaties by running two tics of autoresolve against the losing force, but after things like general units with dead generals have been removed from the army.
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Apr 22, 2014 01:50
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shalcar posted:The computer calculates post battle casulaties by running two tics of autoresolve against the losing force, but after things like general units with dead generals have been removed from the army. Does not ending the battle and mopping up the rout yourself (assuming you have the cavalry to do it) make a difference, or have I been wasting my time all these years?
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Apr 22, 2014 03:05
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dupersaurus posted:Does not ending the battle and mopping up the rout yourself (assuming you have the cavalry to do it) make a difference, or have I been wasting my time all these years? When you mop up the rout yourself you lose the potential for the autoresolve ticks to finish off the remaining troops yeah. In exchange though, if there are a lot of troops left you can theoretically mop up more than the autoresolve would give you. You also get easy, free experience for the troops doing the killing. My generals usually hit Rank 7-8 just from mopping up high value troops that are running after a battle. Sydin fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 03:25
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Just watched your defense video there, great work holding there. Wish I could've done as well last time I had to defend Settsu with less that you had available against an attack that was similarly sized...
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Apr 25, 2014 00:13
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The Hattori Ascendant Winter of 1551 (Continued)   "Amako sails, sir" yelled the lookout. "Two of them!" "Set an intercept course" ordered the admiral. "These waters belong to the Hattori and none shall use them without our consent!" The Amako have moved a small fleet into our waters. We can't afford to let them mass strength, so we must strike hard with the western fleet before the Amako can become a threat in this area.  "That one will make a fine prize" stated the admiral. "Dispatch Atsushi's ship to capture her. The rest of the fleet will engage with the stricken trade vessel. The Amako must be desperate." "At once, sir" replied the first mate, saluting. Why the Amako have sent a crippled fleet into our waters I have no idea, but I'm not about to give them any mercy after Settsu! The presence of the previously unseen Sengoku Bune and a crippled Trade Ship is hardly going to deter our respectable fleet of 4 Medium Bune and 1 Bow Kobaya. The Sengoku Bune would make a worthy addition to our fleet, so all our efforts will be focused on capturing it intact.   Cost: 400 The Sengoku Bune is a middle tier warship, designed for speed and boarding actions. Lacking the archers of other ships, the Sengoku Bune makes up for this with a large, well protected complement of melee soldiers. In addition, the sail enables the Sengoku Bune to move faster than almost all other ships, with the exception of the lightest. Ingame encyclopaedia - Sengoku Bune posted:The sengoku bune is distinguished from other Japanese ships by its sail. This sail is carried in addition to the oarsmen on board, and sailing with the wind allows it to chase down enemy ships. The sengoku bune has few crew compared to similar sized ships, so it is best used to attack smaller, weaker ships rather than those in its own weight category. Historically, sengoku bunes were large junk-style ships used to carry rice and sake. In 1609, converted sengoku bunes were used in the Shimazu raid on the independent kingdom of Ryukyu. These were joined in the attack by ataka bunes, warships that resembled large floating castles. The combination together was an interesting attempt to advance the art of sea warfare.  There is no battle video for this fight. A half-hearted scattering of arrows hit the deck, but the admiral paid them no heed. "They have some fight left?" he boomed. "Attack!" The Hattori arrows launched like a swarm of furious insects, hurtling towards the Amako ships. Some islands in the middle complicate our tactics of rushing our superior numbers to quickly board and capture the Sengoku Bune, but strategy is hardly required with such ridiculous odds.  A cheer went up from the men. "The trade ship has surrendered, sir" reported the first mate. "She's ours." "Good work, how fares Atsushi's forces?" questioned the admiral. "Poorly, I fear" replied the first mate, looking past the captain at the rising plume of smoke. "We are denied our prize, it seems." A catastrophic failure! The Sengoku Bune was sunk in action, unable to be secured by our forces. Instead, we managed to capture a crippled Trade Ship, a totally useless waste of upkeep that I will be scuttling immediately. Capturing or not capturing ships is as much an art as it is a science. Once fleets are of a certain size, the after action casualties can be enough to sink a ship that would otherwise have been captured, which stops moderate fleets from just adsorbing every minor fleet until it has become a major one.  "She's a total write off, sir" reported Atsushi. "The Amako set fire to her before we boarded. Despite our best efforts, we couldn't contain the blaze." Losses on our Medium Bune and Bow Kobaya are hardly enough to take them out of action, but we have precious little to show for the lost men.   "The Chosokabe fought against the fury of the Hattori" bellowed Taketoshi. "They are now ashes, the last of their line slain by my hand. How many more will the Hattori crush before Japan learns we are invincible?" Taketoshi commands an elite army of veterans and the vast majority of our Katana Samurai and can't be left to languish on Shikoku now that the island is secure. Instead, we task him with returning to the mainland so that we can shore up our defences in preparation of Realm Divide. Most of his army will be left behind in order to secure Shikoku against invaders, but it will be nice to know that one of the legends of the Hattori is back, ready to make our enemies pay.   "The Ikko Ikki are ahead, preparing to receive our attack, sir" reported the scout. "You were right sir, they didn't flee." "They didn't flee far enough" noted Hidetoki. "They can stand for their foolish beliefs all they want, but I intend to make them die for them." The Ikko Ikki that foolishly attacked Omi last turn have retreated to the fields to lick their wounds. We won't let them escape with that foolish mistake. To ensure that they will no longer trouble us, the garrison from Omi is dispatched to bring them the rest they so dearly deserve.  "There can't be more than a hundred of them" noted the sergeant. "Are they so ready to die?" "It seems so" responded Hidetoki, drawing his sword. "Charge!" We have more Katana Samurai than they have troops total and outnumber them 5 to 1. This is just housekeeping at this point. This battle was autoresolved.  The battle was swift and bloody, the Ikko Ikki forces swept aside by the fury of the Hattori charge. Soon, no Ikko Ikki soldiers remained alive. I want to say that the autoresolve was kinder than the actual fight would have been, but honestly, our archers would have swept them from the field with about this many casualties (which will be academic thanks to replenishment anyway).  "A good fight" noted the sergeant. "The Ikko Ikki will think again before attacking us." Hidetoki nodded. "We have done our duty, that is all anyone can ask." Yeah, those numbers are about what we would expect. One strong arrow volley would send that army screaming for the hills.   "But we can't leave Omi with such a small garrison for long" he continued. "It's time to head back to our warm beds and roaring fires. We march for home!" With our bows now even more ranked, we return the garrison to Omi, their housekeeping done. It's a pity we didn't have a general here to grab the free 10 experience, but you need to stay on top of the little armies in Shogun 2 so that they don't run around burning your stuff down. One common mistake that people make is to dispatch their entire army to swat the remainders of enemy stacks, which causes them to retreat and pull you out of position or even fail to catch them entirely. Instead, send a smaller force that is only maybe twice as strong, more often than not the AI will elect to fight instead of retreat and the few casualties you take are replenished back anyway. Just knowing this can fix one of the most annoying things about Shogun 2, crippled stacks and asymmetric warfare.   The bitter cold nipped at Chisato, but she paid it no mind. It had taken months for the Hatakeyama forces to grow lax after her last assassination attempt and finally she had found her opening. Silently she slipped through the encampment, avoiding detection, as she made her way to the familiar tent. A shadow was thrown against the skin of the tent from the inside and Chisato knew this was her opportunity. With a practised motion, she struck through the tent, felling the man inside. Money is still tight (as the screenshot shows!), but anything we can do to weaken the Hatakeyama is a good thing. Once again, we send Chisato to take out the elusive third general.  Click here to see the mission!  As he fell, Chisato recognised her mark, her mission now complete. The commotion had drawn attention however, but with the speed and precision of a master ninja, none could catch her. This time, he is not elusive enough as Chisato finishes the job she set out to do. With the general dead, that's one less heavy cavalry unit they can bring against us. It's not going to change the course of the war, but it buys us more time and time is something that we have been scrabbling for lately.   "Yes!" cheered Korekata, the messenger scroll in his hand held high. "They held!" "My Lord?" questioned the samurai captain, looking quizzically at Korekata. "The forces at Settsu are victorious" responded Korekata, straightening his breastplate and coughing slightly. "They will need reinforcement. Gather all the local forces, we march for Settsu." Korekata takes every troop he can muster from Kawachi and moves to reinforce the battered army at Settsu. With the addition of the Katana Samurai, Settsu is now significantly harder to take. Korekata and his army now give us limited force projection and send a strong message to the Amako: The Hattori spirit will never die!   "Settsu held!" exclaimed one soldier to another. "We might get out of this alive after all." Kawachi is still slightly rebellious enough to be disloyal without any troops there, so our reinforcements take a slight detour to bring back order on their way to Settsu.   "The western front has held strong" the ashigaru captain noted. "But the eastern front has been neglected. We will reinforce this key region, no matter how cold it is!" Although we won't be able to get troops out of Iga until the disease runs its course, we did manage to get these two units out this turn. With the western front now looking significantly more secure and only getting stronger with the imminent arrival of Taketoshi, focus shifts to our new cause for concern, our eastern province of Ise. With precious few troops between them, Omi and Ise are remarkably soft targets which must be fortified. To that end, we dispatch the troops to begin the long march to the somewhat remote province.   "You are here because you are the best" stated Yasunaga. "The finest of the Hattori, the instrument of the divine destruction of the Ikko Ikki. The hammer will fall and they will shatter under our fury." The Ikko Ikki must be taught a lesson for their impudence and foolish attacks. Yasunaga is the instrument of our vengeance, his burning need to extinguish the light of the Ikko Ikki burning as brightly as theirs wane. Although a large number of troops need to be left in Echizen to ensure no Ikko Ikki uprisings, we have more than enough to capture their last northern province.  "Enemy forces on patrol, my Lord" reported the scout. "I believe they have spotted us and are attempting to flee." "Then you did your job poorly" replied Yasunaga, mounting his horse and drawing his blade. "Hattori, ready up, there is justice to deliver." The Ikko Ikki garrison force of 1 Ikko Ikki Yari Ashigaru and 1 Ikko Ikki Bow Ashigaru elect to meet us in the field instead of retreating to the fortification. We most certainly have no problem with this, as our 2 Light Cavalry, 1 Hattori Yari Samurai, 5 Hattori Yari Ashigaru, 2 Hattori Bow Ashigaru and 1 Hattori Kisho Ninja will consider it nothing more than a speedbump (Look at that power bar!). This battle was autoresolved.  The cavalry crashed through the disordered Ikko Ikki troops, the blade of Yasunaga and his cavalrymen drinking deep of Ikko Ikki blood. The snow covered ground churned with earth and blood, chaos striking the battlefield like lightning from the heavens. The Ikko Ikki forces buckled and fled, the ferocity of the masterful cavalrywork beyond the resolve of any but the most disciplined troops. This was not war, it was slaughter. In this case, the autoresolve was certainly much kinder than an actual field battle would have been, but not by as much as you would expect. In case you are wondering how the AI has giant stacks of highly vetted ashigaru running around while you struggle to get a unit to rank 4, the fact the autoresolve does this in exceptionally lopsided battles is why.  "You let some escape!" Yasunaga berated the cavalry captain. "You were mounted, well directed and are skilled yourself. How could you let any of those vermin escape?" "I'm sorry, my Lord" replied the cavalry captain. "It won't happen again." Laughter from behind Yasunaga caused him to spin round. "Oh, they didn't get away" grinned the lead ninja. "It was a most exciting little run." In what can only seem to be an attempt at annoying me, the autoresolve has decided that the Hattori Kisho Ninja not only did all the fighting, but also all the dying. Given how slowly they replace, I can only assume the game has a sense of humour.  "We must move quickly to take advantage of catching their patrols off guard" stated Yasunaga. "We need to take that fortification before we freeze to death." "Oh, it's far too cold to be climbing" responded the lead ninja. "Cold fingers make dead men." "I thought the same myself" replied Yasunaga, smiling coldly. "Let's go light a fire." With the Ikko forces freshly obliterated, it's time for the real show, the province itself. Our 2 Light Cavalry, 1 Hattori Yari Samurai, 5 Hattori Yari Ashigaru, 2 Hattori Bow Ashigaru and 1 Hattori Kisho Ninja will roll right over the top of the 1 Samurai Retainers that the Ikko Ikki have in their garrison. Like all our Ikko Ikki conquests, the problem will not be in the taking, but in holding the province filled with religious unrest.  Click here to see the battle! The heat from the gatehouses was intense, the reflection of the flames visible in Yasunaga's stony face. With an almighty crash, a portion of the gatehouse slides to the ground, the frame twisted and charred. Yasunaga nods. "Charge" I'm going to need to sit in this province given that we don't have any movement left and I need to keep losses to a minimum. In order to do that, we are going to launch a cautious attack through a two pronged assault on separate gates. With only a single defender, one gate must be left uncontested for our troops to freely flow in and quickly overwhelm the defenders.  Hattori forces emerged from the flames as demons from below, the jet black lacquer of their armour flickering in the firelight. The Ikko Ikki defenders fought bravely, but numbered barely 3 dozen. Like a lizard stripped by ants, Hattori forces swarmed the Ikko Ikki and soon none remained. Low casualties were the plan and low casualties we got! With correct and cautious play, even taking castles can be a quick and relatively painless affair.  Yasunaga wiped the blood from his blade on the cloak of a fallen Ikko Ikki soldier. "The Ikko Ikki have been dealt a mighty blow!" he boomed to the assembled soldiers. "With the fall of Wakasa, no northern Ikko Ikki province remains." As expected, the yari ashigaru did most of the fighting and the dying, although the bows certainly earned their place. Although the charge of the light cavalry might look a little disappointing, losing 3 cavalrymen to kill 9 samurai is a fantastic deal.  "A good fight" noted the cavalry captain. "A pity there wasn't more of them." "Our job is far from over" replied Yasunaga. "The Ikko Ikki will not be allowed to threaten our families ever again. But we have more immediate issues." "Such as?" questioned the cavalry commander. Another province captured, bringing the entire northern section of the Ikko Ikki provinces firmly under Hattori control. With Wakasa captured, we are up to 15 provinces of the 25 we need to win and it's not looking like much is going to stop us. Of course, there is a certain spectre floating over us... that of Realm Divide. In fact, I had thought that this would trigger Realm Divide, but the fame bar has literally one pixel left until it kicks off, so winning another major victory or taking another province will see us taking on all of Japan, regardless of if we like it or not (We love it!).   "These fortifications must be repaired and replenishments levied" stated Yasunaga. "Then there remains the matter of stamping out the Ikko Ikki sympathisers in the population." "It will be done, my Lord" replied the cavalry commander. Wakasa is quite frankly a pretty rubbish province with a Fort, Archery Dojo, Improved Irrigation (Meagre Soil), Roads and a Coastal Village. With the fairly large Ikko Ikki religious presence, it's going to cost us far more to garrison than it ever will produce for the Hattori. The fact that it produces a food surplus is perhaps the most important part of the entire province. Regardless, it's of little value to anyone else either, so once we have the population under control, we can get by with a small garrison and make it at least cost neutral.   Cost: Free The first building in the Port Chain, the Coastal Village increases the growth rate of the province. Ingame encyclopaedia - Coastal Village posted:A regular haul of fish can help sustain and grow a community, supplying a source of both fresh food and income. It is also the foundation for a larger construct, which can be expanded to specialise as either a trading or military port. A good coastal village can become the heart of a community, providing jobs for the populace and the money needed to start families, growing as the fishing business grows. Historically, the divisions between social classes in Japan were very clear and seen as vital for the maintenance of good order in the country. Social status and employment were often tightly intertwined, and most jobs had a hereditary element to them: sons followed fathers into the same trade. As well as restrictions on weaponry, the clothes and housing of classes were also laid down in law and custom. Fishermen and farmers had to work hard for little money, but their status was certainly higher than townsmen and merchants. When, under the Tokugawas, some commoners attempted to improve their homes with features copied from the warrior classes, the Shogunate discouraged the practice almost immediately. Everyone had to know, and keep to, their place.  "The Takaoka are here to see you, my Lord" reported the ashigaru captain. Yasunaga nodded. "We have much to discuss." Taking Wakasa has brought us into contact with their neighbours, the Takaoka. As a small one province minor clan in a world increasingly populated by giants, we can expect them to be friendly to us, even if they almost certainly don't like us very much.  "The Hattori are ascendant" stated Yasunaga. "None can doubt our divine destiny." "As you say, my Lord" replied the ambassador. "You do seem to have the luck of devils." "Oh, we are devils" responded Yasunaga, his eyes narrowing. "Devils that have an army at your very door. In exchange for continuing our fight against the Ikko Ikki instead of finding one with the Takaoka, you will furnish us with generous terms of trade and a moderate sum of gold. Consider it your gift to us for ridding you of the threat of the Ikko Ikki." We move quickly to exploit the fact that we have a relatively large force on their border by suggesting a one sided trading deal which they feel compelled to accept. The trade deal is unlikely to last long given that Realm Divide is so close, but the extra koku are always handy to have!  "Everyone is so big!" announced Masanari. "But we are the biggest." "The Hattori do command the most land" replied his tutor. "But do not discount the many. Even the mightiest man needs friends." The map of Japan tells quite the story, as mighty clans consolidate their power and march on their path to become Shogun. Although you can see that we are clearly the largest as the darker grey colour, there are more than enough major clans left to quickly change that story. The Ikko Ikki appear to be beaten back, but they still control 6 provinces despite all their losses, making them the same size as the Date on the right! Shikoku seems a natural target for the Otomo and with their powerful gunpowder weapons I don't know if we can hold it. Nevertheless, nothing will stop the Hattori from fulfilling their divine destiny as the new Shogunate.  "We don't have many friends, do we?" questioned Masanari. "No, the Hattori are far from well liked" responded the tutor. "The Takeda and the Emperor's Court hold us in good esteem, but the others hate us even as they fear us." A fact that seems to be a little lost on the Shogunate themselves, as they are our biggest fans in all of Japan. Of course, this isn't too hard, as the only other clan that likes us is the Takeda and even then it's lukewarm. Every other clan in Japan either hates us, loathes us or is personally insulted by our existence.   "But why do they trade with us?" queried Masanari. "If they hate us, that is." "Never underestimate what people will do for gold" stated the tutor. "Sometimes you need to be practical, no matter your personal thoughts." No matter how much they hate us though, they love our money and the feeling is mutual. Our income is absolutely rock solid, which it will need to be with the heavy hits it will take in Realm Divide as all our trading partners declare war (usually in the same turn). Luckily for us our economy and armies are intelligently set up so that our tax income covers our military upkeep so that even if we lose all our trade partners at once (we won't) that we won't go bankrupt. The 20% higher upkeep for Hattori troops is biting us hard as our armies are much smaller than you would normally have going into Realm Divide, but given that we are Hattori, that just makes us fight harder. There is actually a lot of information in these two screens if you know how to read them. On the bottom right of the trade panel it says that our trade is worth 4625 koku a turn, but in the finance panel it says our trade income is only 3764 koku. The reason for this is that the Date trade route is blockaded (on their end) and so that 895 koku we don't actually get. We do, however, get the extra 63 koku from unsold trade goods in the bottom left. 4625 - 3764 + 63 = 924 koku, so we can see that the Hojo and Ito trade routes which are being raided are losing a total of 29 koku, not worth worrying about. Compared to our economic situation a mere 4 turns ago, our actual military expenditure has almost doubled, but our income has increased slightly faster giving us increased profits. AS far as the economy goes, right before Realm Divide tends to be the high point, we will never has an much wealth to throw around as we do at this moment. We will make good use of it. Sneak Peek:The Rallying Cry... shalcar fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 14:56
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Fothermucker, what a roller coaster. What do we need for victory besides those 10 provinces?
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May 1, 2014 02:04
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So in this situation, would it be worth it to kick off Realm Divide by attacking Kyoto? It does seem like the natural first target either way.
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May 1, 2014 02:32
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Is the video of the fortress assault broken for anybody else? Youtube refuses to load it.
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May 1, 2014 02:33
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Agent Interrobang posted:Is the video of the fortress assault broken for anybody else? Youtube refuses to load it. It's giving me trouble now as well, although it worked when I put it up last night. If it hasn't resolved itself by the time I get home from work, I'll reupload it. As for what we need to do to win, there will be a special realm divide update to cover the second half of the game to bring us all up to speed. The Hattori have earned a little moment in the sun, but our task is far from over!
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May 1, 2014 03:00
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The video worked for me, at least! Oh man, I can't wait for Taketoshi to get back into the action. It feels like he's been in Shikoku forever.
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May 1, 2014 03:14
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I loved that the game autoresolved the kisho ninja to do all of the fighting. That would have been a sight to see: a small band of ninja slaughtering enough units to account for them three times over.
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May 1, 2014 03:46
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: "Hi, we're the Takaoka!" : "And we're the Hattori! Also give us all your money. Now."It never gets old.  The tables certainly have turned back in your favor! Nice break on the RD triggering too, though I doubt we'll be safe much longer.
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May 1, 2014 04:44
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Wakasa at least allows you to consolidate a front, so that's a good thing. One more province to Realm Divide, eh? Wonder if it's going to be taken from the Amako or the Ikko. Looks more like the former, due to the disposition of your forces.
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May 1, 2014 07:26
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It's perhaps a bit late to turn it into a powerhouse, but Bizen, two provinces west of Settsu, was the cornerstone of my troop production. It's got a blacksmith, and fully upgraded with a Jiujitsu dojo, it was producing rank 4 Naginata Samurai with about 12 armor. They never died.
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May 1, 2014 09:45
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Your eastern front looks like a nightmare to defend on if the Takeda alliance gets RD'd. The west looks easier, only 2-3 paths wide all the way to the western coast.
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May 1, 2014 11:35
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The area to the his right (east or north, depending on how you twist the map) is actually chopped up by mountains. You can't move as freely as it looks, so you only need two forces to block it up. If he pushed much further, however, the paths get more complicated. If there aren't any victory provinces that direction, I'd only take one or two more to secure my defense positioning, and focus on the other direction. I'm actually in a similar position in a Rise game I've been (slowly) playing. Unfortunately, there I need to take that entire side of Japan. With provinces slow conversion in that game, I'm finding it much harder going than in Vanilla, where I could just blitz through until I reached a good choke point.
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May 1, 2014 16:42
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Does destroying a gatehouse mean there's damage to repair after the battle is over, or does it only matter on the battle map?
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May 7, 2014 21:01
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The Sandman posted:So in this situation, would it be worth it to kick off Realm Divide by attacking Kyoto? It does seem like the natural first target either way. It would, if nothing else, actually make Realm Divide make some sort of narrative sense for once.
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May 7, 2014 21:39
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Yeah.....I like the concept of realm divide but not necessarily the execution. The idea behind it is supposed to split the land between just you and enemies but I normally applied some kind of mod to alter it because the REAL realm divide in history over this period was between one army(and its allies) vs another army(and its allies) and while allies were more likely to turn on them then they didn't just go 'I've been backing the winning horse so long I'm sure to get a reward for my loyalty....wait they are winning? Quick get my sword I need to go commit suicide against my vastly stronger ally!'. There are some ways around this*as was mentioned before the making vassals post realm divide* it just seems....off to me. Even more playing this clan where usually the emperor is your best friend and you are spoken of like the protectors of the shogunate then you've taken all the land around them and are moving outward not threatening him at all and he just suddenly realizes the only lands around him are Hattori and he should probably be worried about that. To Glazius yes destroying a gate damages the castle. Which means if its not repaired by the time someone attacks then suddenly your castle has all its gates blown off and tons of holes in the walls as if you fired cannons at it. I THINK it does less costly damage then auto resolve but I wouldn't be at all surprised to be wrong about that its been awhile since I played Shogun 2.
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May 7, 2014 22:04
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Someone trying to assassinate the Emperor while the Hattori are everywhere would probably make everyone paranoid. Of course, the assassin need not work for the Hatttori. I wonder how Shalcar will explain the divide.
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May 7, 2014 22:07
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The principal downside to having a damaged castle after burning down the gates is that you won't get the suppression from it until it's repaired, so if you want to move your army immediately, that can be problematic.
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May 7, 2014 23:11
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Chaeden posted:Yeah.....I like the concept of realm divide but not necessarily the execution. The idea behind it is supposed to split the land between just you and enemies but I normally applied some kind of mod to alter it because the REAL realm divide in history over this period was between one army(and its allies) vs another army(and its allies) and while allies were more likely to turn on them then they didn't just go 'I've been backing the winning horse so long I'm sure to get a reward for my loyalty....wait they are winning? Quick get my sword I need to go commit suicide against my vastly stronger ally!'. There are some ways around this*as was mentioned before the making vassals post realm divide* it just seems....off to me. Even more playing this clan where usually the emperor is your best friend and you are spoken of like the protectors of the shogunate then you've taken all the land around them and are moving outward not threatening him at all and he just suddenly realizes the only lands around him are Hattori and he should probably be worried about that. One of the improvements made in the Fall of the Samurai expansion was a change to the way "realm divide" works. It actually goes pretty much like you described it: the country splits into two factions, one supporting the Emperor and one supporting the Shogunate, one headed by you and one headed by your most potent foe on the other side. The two factions are pretty much locked in perpetual war, and certain of the victory conditions can be met through your alliance rather than alone. So for example you might need 26 provinces, but your side will need 50 and among them will be Tokyo and Kyoto. If you want the old-fashioned Realm Divide, that's an option too as you can declare yourself ruler of an independent Japanese republic and take on both sides. I quite like FotS, and actually play it a bit more than the original. Aesthetically and gameplay wise it has some shortcomings, but I'm a sucker for the nineteenth century and love blasting my foes with massive firepower. I regularly pull off some truly lopsided wins.
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May 8, 2014 05:52
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Yeah. I heard about the difference in fall and thought it sounded great but....well I suck at Fall. Rise I LOVE*outside of the fact that one of the factions is positioned in such a way that it basically has to kill its sister faction to actually expand*, the original I like, and Fall just stomps on me and my inability to effectively use gun units. I'm basically waiting for Shalcar to get to Fall so I can figure out just how terribly I playing it.
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May 8, 2014 07:21
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Chaeden posted:Yeah. I heard about the difference in fall and thought it sounded great but....well I suck at Fall. Rise I LOVE*outside of the fact that one of the factions is positioned in such a way that it basically has to kill its sister faction to actually expand*, the original I like, and Fall just stomps on me and my inability to effectively use gun units. I'm basically waiting for Shalcar to get to Fall so I can figure out just how terribly I playing it. Battles in Fall tend to be quite samey, in fairness, although occasionally rather spectacular with all the smoke and explosions. You'll want to spread each of your units into really thin two-man lines, and make it so that as few units as possible are behind each other. This is because bullets travel past their initial targets - if each bullet fired by your opponent only has a chance to hit two people before it misses, you will take casualties a lot slower and keep your units' morale up longer. The AI tends to blob up, and takes disproportionate losses. Having one thin long line should make you very vulnerable to breakthroughs, but in practice that doesn't happen in Fall single player - putting your units in guard mode gives them a lot of staying power, because they keep shooting even when in melee. The only things you really have to watch out for are lines of sight (zooming your camera to the level of your troops to check if there are any obstructions in front of them that you can't see from up high) and specialized melee units with high morale, who you can't break before they hit your lines. I wonder if we will see Shalcar LP'ing Fall of the Samurai? There is certain appeal to the untold story of a centuries long vendetta against grain storage.
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May 8, 2014 09:01
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Promontory posted:Battles in Fall tend to be quite samey, in fairness, although occasionally rather spectacular with all the smoke and explosions. You'll want to spread each of your units into really thin two-man lines, and make it so that as few units as possible are behind each other. This is because bullets travel past their initial targets - if each bullet fired by your opponent only has a chance to hit two people before it misses, you will take casualties a lot slower and keep your units' morale up longer. The AI tends to blob up, and takes disproportionate losses.
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May 8, 2014 11:32
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I had problems with positioning my gunpowder units when I started assaulting fortifications, because I didn't understand how line of sight worked, especially against defenders behind a wall. I just told my units to go shoot at them by right clicking on them, and then they kept moving forward toward the wall, not firing a shot and getting mowed down while trying to get line of sight. It cost me quite a number of Levy Infantry routed before I figured out positioning. Now I bring heavy artillery and enough guns to have a great base of fire to shoot all those fuckers at the wall down, after positioning my troops better. Or I just flank them on another wall, and then set up a firing line to shoot the defenders from behind. Never quite figured out Guard Mode or wide lines to bring as many guns to bear, but that latter point makes a ton of sense. Should make it easier next time I play Fall, whenever that is...
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May 9, 2014 00:16
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The Rallying Cry Spring of 1552  "My Lord, the Hattori are mobilising, of this there could be no doubt" reported the attendant. "They grow more threatening by the day!" "How can they be doing this?" demanded the Shogun. "Their enemies are vast, their allies few. How can they be coming out on top and threatening our position?" Our need to bolster our forces is starting to draw to a close, with an enormous recruitment drive of 7 Hattori Yari Ashigaru and 2 Hattori Bow Ashigaru, spread across most of our empire. Upkeep costs are starting to put a serious crimp on what we can do and we will need to start focusing on quality if we want to have any hope of taking Kyoto, but we are starting to turn around our position of being land rich and troop poor. We are going to need it.   "The people are fiercely loyal to their Daimyo Yasunaga and his first born son, Masanari" replied the attendant. "Rumours exist that their greatest general, Taketoshi is somewhat wavering in loyalty, but this seems unlikely." "The people's loyalty belongs to me, all bow before the Shogunate" stated the Shogun. "This foolishness will not continue for long." One of the best events to get at this stage of the game, especially with a few turns left on our bonus to ashigaru ranks. This in effect doubles the recruitment capacity of our provinces, meaning we can get troops where we need to in a fairly rapid manner, in addition to being able to produce even more samurai in few turns. We will never have a better capacity to handle an enemy lightning strike!    "Rest assured, my Lord, that others feel as you do" noted the attendant. "Even as we speak, several key ports of the Hattori are under blockade by their enemies." "Have you delivered my missive to the other clans?" questioned the Shogun. "Is their loyalty secure?" The attendant bowed low. "The Shogunate will reign for ten thousand years, my Lord. All bar the Takeda have pledged their support and even they are wavering." Blockades are a problem however, with both the port in Ise and Echizen blockaded. Although the trade route in Echizen is also blockaded on the other side and so doesn't cost us anything, the loss of income from the Ise port blockade is significant, the Ikko Ikki ships able to be produced and slip past our fleet before we can intercept them.  The spring air was crisp and the sun was warm, but Nakasada couldn't help but feel the cold touch of dread in his bones. Even his sermon felt hollow to his ears, although if those listening had thought so, they had not shown it. He sighed. "The world is big and beautiful" he thought. "But it is also dark and dangerous. Nevermind the answers, I don't even know the questions." Nakasada needs to be converting our northern provinces ASAP, so we begin his trek towards where he needs to be. He can't make it to a province we need to convert this turn, so instead we pop him just inside the Ikko Ikki held province of Owari. Although it won't be much, his presence will somewhat undo the Ikko Ikki conversion of the province and make it easier for us to secure it when we expand down through the south.   "Reports of a sabotage attempt on the Hatakeyama have reached us, my Lord" reported the attendant. "She targeted their training facilities." "She?" questioned the Shogun. "Then you have eyewitness reports?" "Yes, My Lord" replied the attendant. "The ninja was confronted by a squad of men shortly after she had set the fire. A full dozen Hatakeyama soldiers had caught her in the act." The Shogun grinned coldly. "Even the Hattori can't win all the time." Money is supremely tight as evidenced by the fact that the only option Chisato has is the cheapest, a sabotage of the Sword School in the Hatakeyama held province of Etchu. Although I don't think it's going to do much, it should be a relatively inexpensive 15 experience as well as preventing them from recruiting Katana Samurai for at least a turn, which is currently the biggest weakness of our northern forces.  Click here to see the mission!  "Actually, my Lord" coughed the attendant. "She used some form of blinding grenade and carved through the men like a demon. Luckily for us, one of the men was a coward and ran. Our agent was able to extract the story from him with suitable coin." "What?" the Shogun demanded, eyes bulging. "What manner of hellspawn do the Hattori have? Did they save the facilities?" "Completely obliterated, my Lord" responded the attendant. "This ninja of theirs seems to be something out of legend. Not since Nakamitsu of the Taira has one so fearsome walked with impunity amongst Japan." Luckily for us it goes off without a hitch and the Hatakeyama will have to get their Katana Samurai from somewhere else if they want to have a chance of overrunning our fortifications.   "I'm afraid the news gets worse" continued the attendant. "How can it get worse?" demanded the Shogun. "They have all but declared themselves as enemies of the state." "It's their general Taketoshi, my Lord" replied the attendant. "What about the conqueror of Shikoku?" demanded the Shogun. Although there isn't much of an army that we can extract, we are going to need Taketoshi on the mainland as soon as possible. With that in mind we move him to the beach in Sanuki, ready to board our western fleet. Although boarding him off the beach will consume both his and the fleet's entire turn, it's still going to be faster than collecting him from the nearest port all the way on the western side of the island of Shikoku.   "The Hattori have recalled him, my Lord" answered the attendant. "Even now he sails towards us." "It's us, isn't it" mused the Shogun. "He's coming to lead the attack against Kyoto. I know it. That bastard Yasunaga is behind this." The island recruitment capacity is not high, but is also only useful for reinforcing Shikoku itself. Because of that, we can fairly safely gut the garrisons here and have them join Taketoshi on the ships headed for the mainland, especially with the capacity to quickly replace them thanks to the mustering event we got earlier in the turn. Although this force won't hold out against a full stack, it won't need much reinforcement before it's a nightmare for enemy armies, especially led by a general as dangerous and powerful as Taketoshi.   "That would seem likely" continued the attendant. "They reinforce their provinces to the east." Ise is still critically low on troops, as is the entire eastern flank of our empire. Our reinforcements from Iga continue their march to reinforce Ise. Logistical concerns make our eastern reinforcement difficult and will likely need a more aggressive approach if we want to win.   "Their western provinces as well" noted the Shogun. With Settsu once again the linchpin in our defences for our western provinces, we strip the garrison from Kawachi and move it to Settsu. Korekata's force is becoming quite substantial, we won't be caught out again.   "and have orchestrated a breakthrough on the blockade of their southern ports" nodded the attendant. "This is rapidly spiralling out of control." Our eastern fleet has but one mission, open up the trade routes! We need that money and we can't afford to let fleets build too strong in the area.  "The Ikko Ikki have brought me a new ship" bellowed the admiral. "All we need to do is go and collect it!" "Your orders, sir?" questioned the first mate. "Shall we dispatch all ships?" "I'm not missing out on this fun!" grinned the admiral. "It's time we got a little recreation in, prepare the grapnels, I'm boarding her personally." A single Medium Bune versus our 3 Medium Bune and 2 Bow Kobaya is as one sided a fight as it gets in Shogun 2 naval (Ok, not as bad as cannons, but still). Our primary concern is the capture of this Medium Bune, as that would bring our fleet up to one that could be expected to hold out through Realm Divide.  Video omitted because it was dull as all hell The two ships smashed together with a titanic groaning of timber and lacquer. "That's more like it" bellowed the admiral, leaping onto the enemy ship, sword in hand. "Come on lads, let's pay a visit to their captain!" Open water, Medium Bune, Final Destination. There is no strategy here, just rush with the Bow Kobaya to skirmish and then board with a Medium Bune for capture.  The admiral tugged his dagger from the neck of the Ikko Ikki captain's throat. "Never fight fair" he told the corpse. "It will get you killed!" Success! Another vessel captured and the Hattori fleet grows ever larger. Casualties were low, although we don't currently have the koku to repair our damaged ships. It won't matter for our existing fleet, but the newly captured Medium Bune is in bad need of a new, loyal crew.  "Feel that morning air" bellowed the admiral. "Heaven above, that makes me feel alive!" "The ship is ours, sir" reported a sailor. "Your orders?" "Secure her and send over a skeleton crew" commanded the admiral, before breaking out into a smile. "Prepare my bath and sake. Today is going to be a great day." No extra ranks for our ships, which is a shame, but the fact that two of our Medium Bune are already moderately ranked means that we will need a more impressive fight than a single Medium Bune to see any appreciable returns. A free ship is more than a good enough reward as far as I am concerned!   "Outwitting dumb peasants is hardly worth my time" thought Tameshige. "It's not like the Shogunate is going to try anything stupid." Taking out his dagger, he tested the edge for sharpness before putting it back in the sheath. "On the other hand" he thought, breaking out into a cold smile. "I would love it ever so much if they did." With no money, Tameshige is unable to perform any mission of note. Instead, we pop him into Omi to protect against enemy agents, as the loss of a single Metsuke, especially the one in Omi would be absolutely devastating and he will net 3 experience for his troubles.   "Many brave men died in Settsu, felled by the Amako" thundered Korekata. "Their deaths were caused by treachery, by greed, by jealously. Today, my brothers, we repay that debt! Today we let the Amako learn of our suffering, of our pain, of the helplessness of brothers lost. The Hattori have a debt to those of the Bessho who fell in Harima and to our own in Settsu. Today we change this war, once and for all." Harima is undefended, but that won't be the case for long. The time to strike is now, so we muster some troops and send Korekata to strip the province from the Amako. It's time for a little payback.  "For the Hattori!" bellowed Korekata. "Ashigaru, forward! Archers, release!" The mass of Hattori seethed forward to the walls, battle cries and curses filled the air as torches were put to the gates. Soon flames lept high into the air, looking nothing so much as a funeral pyre for the Amako forces within. Our glorious Hattori forces of 1 Hattori Katana Samurai, 4 Hattori Yari Ashigaru and 2 Hattori Bow Ashigaru will roll over the garrison of 1 Samurai Retainers as if they were not even there. The tide of battle swings towards the Hattori! Korekata will not be denied.  Click here to see the battle! Korekata struck down a defender with a single clean stroke, despite having seen little real fighting, his training as a noble served him well, the swordsmanship of the other soldiers looking clumsy by comparison. Although not the hardened warrior of Yasunaga or the furious fighter of Taketoshi, Korekata fought like he led. Cold, calm, calculated and brutally efficient. The mission is simple. Sweep the enemy with arrows, storm the gates and slaughter them to the last man.  "That's the last of them, sir" reported the samurai captain. "Your intelligence was right, this was barely worth calling a garrison." Korekata nodded. "It should be safe enough to bring in the package. If harm befalls him, I'll hold you and your family responsible." "I'll see it done, my Lord" replied the samurai captain. We lost more troops than they did, but not by much and that doesn't really matter. A glorious victory and one less province for the Amako. If they are not questioning their choices of attacking the invincible Hattori then they are fools!  A child, barely more than 12, stood next to Korekata. "It's been a long time since you saw home, I expect" noted Korekata. "It's a little worse for wear, but I'm sure you will soon change that." "Me?" asked the child. The kills are distributed about what you would expect, with the bows scoring some kills, the yari ashigaru doing the bulk of the killing and the dying while the katana samurai scored slightly better than 2:1. Nothing we won't replenish in a turn, 2 at the absolute maximum.  "You are the last surviving child of the Bessho." stated Korekata. "Your father was a most loyal vassal and we owe you a great debt. On behalf of the Hattori, I hereby restore you to your rightful place as ruler of these lands. Serve the Hattori as your father did and serve your people. That is your duty." The Hattori do not want Harima for themselves, as the province is not only poor, but difficult to defend and draws our forces away from the homelands. Instead, we have a sacred duty to the Bessho, our vassals who were obliterated by the Amako all those turns ago. We are firm believers in justice and duty, we can do nothing less than restore the lands of Harima to their rightful rulers, the loyal and noble Bessho. Unlike vassals created through diplomatic means, vassals created via conquest are considered by the game to be completely new clans and so have no modifiers applied to their opinion of you other than what they start the game with. This means they absolutely adore you, as even clans with large past grievances (like the Bessho) have that blown away by the sheer amount of love comes with military alliances and trade routes. This also means that they don't start at war with anyone and can be used as a way to block advancing armies via land, forcing them instead to come by sea. If nothing else, they provide sight so you can see enemy armies approaching a turn or two earlier, giving you time to bolster your defences. The other nice thing about making vassals is that fixing the castle is their problem, so you can minimise your casualties taking it by just burning everything to the ground.   "Sir, a large number of samurai wish to join us" reported the samurai captain. "They say that we are going to change the world and they want to be part of it." Korekata smiled. "Let them know they have picked the right side." Creating a vassal through conquest also gives you one random samurai unit for free. If the province can not produce any samurai units, you get a yari samurai or bow samurai, but if the province can produce samurai you will get one of those units instead, chosen at random from those available. In our case we got a Hattori Yari Samurai, the least useful of the samurai units, but with our armies desperately needing professionals no matter their weapons, I won't turn it down.  Korekata turned to the Bessho Daimyo. "Hattori merchants will arrive within a few weeks and Bessho merchants will have access to Hattori markets" stated Korekata. "Is that a problem?" "N.. No" stuttered the child. "That's fine. I mean, that will be acceptable." Korekata nodded. "I thought so. In addition, the Hattori have extracted reparations from the Amako treasury here. Whatever is left is yours." We can always use another trade partner (which is incidentally worth a lot more than the province would be!) and with our armies having freshly liberated them, the Bessho are more than eager to not only give us a trade deal, but enough tribute to let us repair our damaged eastern fleet as well as recruit more troops, which we are certainly going to need.   "Your orders, my Lord" inquired the samurai captain. "Gather everyone you can and ready the men" stated Korekata. "We march for Settsu." His mission complete, we move Korekata and his forces back to Settsu so that we can begin our plan of taking Tamba and isolating the Shogun from the last of his supporters.  Click here to see the video!  "My Lord, this is getting out of control" reported the attendant. "The Hattori are gathering a powerbase, installing supporters in Harima and the general Korekata marches, I suspect for Tamba, in order to isolate us completely." "What?" bellowed the Shogun. "I knew it! They plan to have Korekata cut us off and Taketoshi invade us, all while Yasunaga stays far enough away to maintain plausible deniability. This is blatant aggression against us." "What should we do, my Lord?" questioned the attendant. "We lose power with every passing day." "The Hattori are enemies of the state" ordered the Shogun. "Every clan has sworn to support us, now is the time to call in that support." The Shogun stood and walked over to the window, glaring at the gardens outside as if to dare them into defiance. "The Hattori will fall" he stated. "None can stand alone." Step right up, ladies and gentlemen, to the action packed, treasure filled mines of the Despite that, the mechanic itself is incredibly solid and really only needs minor adjustments as it does solve the late game rollover of other Total War games.    "Can we trust the Bessho?" asked the samurai captain. "He's just a child." "Right now, he's the most reliable ally we have" noted Korekata. "Let's just hope he fares better than his father." It wasn't a very calming thought. The effects of Realm Divide diplomatically are incredibly obvious, as everyone has taken a flat -20 penalty to their relation with us. For clans that are well liked, that's not so much of an issue but for us, it basically means everyone hates us in a deep and personal way. Underneath the map I have put two diplomatic summary screens, the Ashikaga Shogunate on the left and our new vassals the Bessho on the right. We can see that while the Ashikaga have the Realm Divide penalty, the Bessho don't. The reason for this is that Realm Divide triggers before the capture of the province is resolved. Since creating a vassal by conquest creates the clan, the Bessho have popped into existence after Realm Divide and so will never get the Realm Divide penalty. They will play and behave exactly as clans do before Realm Divide. This makes them relatively loyal and reliable. THe single best move you can make is to have your Realm Divide province be a vassal from conquest as this will give you a trade partner which will persist as everyone else drops you like a hot rock. Vassals created by diplomacy will still have their Realm Divide penalty and so will betray you at the first chance they get. Steel is the only thing Japan understands now. Realm Divide has a second sting in the tail which catches most newer players off guard. Every single diplomatic modifier (marked with the + or -) changes the value by 1 a turn, but the Realm Divide modifier changes it by 5. So while the Bessho will gain +1 relationship with us a turn (2+ and 1-), the Ashikaga Shogunate will actually change by -5 (and not the -1 it looks like). This means that vassals and allies over less than 10 turns will rapidly drop into where they don't like you enough to be your allies anymore and then, because everyone else is at war with you, they will often immediately declare war. Like everything with Realm Divide, once you know it's coming you can mitigate it and work around it, but if you are new and it's sprung upon you, it can be incredibly frustrating. Spring of 1552 (Enemy Turn)  Realm Divide Edition!     The crunch of lacquer and steel echoed as Yasunaga's armoured fist went through his table. "Those traitorous bastards" he bellowed. "They think the Hattori will just roll over and surrender everything we worked so hard for? I'll have their heads!" He stood up, drawing a deep breath. "Summon all the runners" he ordered. "If Japan wishes to commit suicide, we will be happy to oblige." The Realm Divide cost was steep, one ally down, all our trade partners bar the Bessho and Takeda are now at war with us and a full 10 clans want us dead, which is basically everyone left in Japan. The only blessing out of this is that the Ashikaga Shogunate never attack anyone, so despite having a full stack of samurai (2 full stacks actually, they get a free full stack of samurai on Realm Divide), they won't massacre our heartland. On the upside, you can see in our diplomacy screens that our power is rated "Terrifying", the highest possible rating, which means we not only have the largest military in Japan, but we beat second place by a fair bit. Of course, we are going to need every single soldier if we are to have a chance to survive the oncoming storm. Sneak Peek: A Hostile Market...
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May 15, 2014 15:56
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Ah, I remember my first Realm Divide well. I was Date and marching down the peninsula, raiding, pillaging, and vassaling. Whoops. The most egregious thing for me about RD is that vassals ditch you without question (what about honor?). Even just having some way to sway some of them to stick with (or at least not backstab) you would make it so much better.
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May 15, 2014 16:34
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It's HAPPY MURDER FUN TIME!
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May 15, 2014 16:36
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Music's playing. Time to dance.
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May 15, 2014 17:02
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The time has come! Let's see what the Hattori are made of! You hit Realm Divide with far fewer Agents than I usually have running around.
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May 15, 2014 17:33
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