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Idle curiosity, but do you have any plans to LP Fall of the Samurai in the future? Obviously it would be a ways away, but I think it would be pretty cool to have a multi-generation alternate history trilogy LP. (and hey, there's your new page!)
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Jun 3, 2014 16:33
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One of the reasons I autoresolved like, all the naval battles in my Chosokabe game was that there were so godsdamned *many* of them. Like, far more than land battles it seemed. With the forces all being relatively similar compared to land battles, I just got bored pretty fast.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:31
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Rogue 7 posted:One of the reasons I autoresolved like, all the naval battles in my Chosokabe game was that there were so godsdamned *many* of them. Like, far more than land battles it seemed. With the forces all being relatively similar compared to land battles, I just got bored pretty fast. Yeah, the AI makes a lot more one ship stacks than one unit stacks, so it can get annoying late game to swat them all down. This is particularly true in Fall, where the AI realizes the value of bombardment, and will send a never ending procession of ships at you trying to bombard something.
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Jun 3, 2014 18:33
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shalcar posted:I'm with Sydin on this, Naval is great fun but it needs a different set of knowledge than land battles, so people who are competent at land often do poorly or don't see why their naval fell apart, declare it terrible and then just autoresolve, which I think is a shame. Despite the philosophy being the same it needs a different skillset and that makes it feel worse because you know what you need to do but you just can't do it which makes you incredibly frustrated. Even Rise of the Samurai can have great naval (and the simplicity makes it easier to grasp, albeit at the cost of depth), but I agree with you on the length, especially if you don't grasp the importance of using swift boats as the killing blow to force fleeing boats to surrender. I do just fine in naval combat. I can put together fleets and win with out auto resolve no problem. That is not what I was saying. It's just still isn't fun. It takes too long, isn't satisfying like the land combat is, and often its just a couple of ships that harass a trade lane or something which means the combat is more about dealing with an annoyance that will be back again in three turns rather than a battle for anything substantial or satisfying.
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Jun 3, 2014 19:32
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Are you going to give the Black Ship a go?
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Jun 3, 2014 22:58
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biosterous posted:Idle curiosity, but do you have any plans to LP Fall of the Samurai in the future? Obviously it would be a ways away, but I think it would be pretty cool to have a multi-generation alternate history trilogy LP. Right now I just don't know. I'll have to see closer to the end of the LP. Affi posted:Are you going to give the Black Ship a go? Depending on if it turns up or not! Jade Star posted:I do just fine in naval combat. I can put together fleets and win with out auto resolve no problem. That is not what I was saying. It's just still isn't fun. It takes too long, isn't satisfying like the land combat is, and often its just a couple of ships that harass a trade lane or something which means the combat is more about dealing with an annoyance that will be back again in three turns rather than a battle for anything substantial or satisfying. I apologise if you felt I was insinuating you were no good at naval combat, my response was offered more in the general sense of a common reason people feel frustration at the naval combat. For what it's worth, I completely agree that the one ship fleets are incredibly annoying to deal with and are great candidates for autoresolve, but I feel that is a different issue to the naval combat not being fun. I've had a couple of climactic sea battles which have changed dramatically how the campaign went or against another roughly equal fleet that has had some weight to it and those are great. The small fleet harassment is an issue that kind of drives me up the wall since it's basically housekeeping.
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Jun 4, 2014 01:16
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I've been enjoying this thread a ton, even though it's shown me just how awful I am at Shogun and how little I understand its mechanics. Thanks shalcar 
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Jun 5, 2014 10:44
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Bad Decision Dino posted:I've been enjoying this thread a ton, even though it's shown me just how awful I am at Shogun and how little I understand its mechanics. Thanks shalcar Thank you, Bad Decision Dino, for reading it! Congratulations on quitting smoking and I salute you for doing something far, FAR harder than any LP ever. Stay strong, mate!
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Jun 7, 2014 10:17
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A Hostile Market Summer of 1552  "These numbers are boring" complained Masanari. "When I am Daimyo I won't do them!" "When you are Daimyo, all will obey you, but you are not Daimyo yet" responded the attendant, patiently. "Your father feels you should know all aspects of the clan. Where the Hattori derive their wealth and power is just as important as how our soldiers conduct themselves in battle." "I still don't see how rice can be as important as battle" replied Masanari. "Rice can't capture the Shogunate!" The attendant smiled. "You would be surprised what rice can do." Realm Divide kicks off with a bullet for our construction, with a huge number of new buildings coming online this turn, the majority economic in nature. In our Ikko Ikki dominated province of Kaga we erect a Buddhist Temple and Yari Drill Yard, with the plan to eventually make that a location to produce blacksmith enhanced Naginata troops. We increase our food supply in our more fertile provinces with the construction of Terrace Farming in addition to boosting our wealth. The main purpose of the additional food is to offset the additional food costs of the two Merchant Guilds we have built. The Merchant Guild provides a substantial boost to wealth in the province as well as providing a massive increase in province growth at the cost of more food than earlier markets. This additional economic firepower will be essential given the enormous battering that our trade income has taken by offsetting it with reliable tax based income.   Cost: 3400 The Merchant Guild is the third building in the Market chain and further increases the province wealth, province growth and food consumption. Ingame encyclopaedia - Merchant Guild posted:A merchants' guild greatly improves a province's wealth and growth. Rather than competing with each other, a town's merchant class work together, pool their resources and information, and look forward to enlarged profits. They can at last start to plan beyond the next harvest, or for the arrival of the next shipment of trade goods. Associations of merchants were useful for collective risk-taking and collective bargaining. One merchant alone had little chance of getting any concession from his samurai overlords, but an entire town's worth of merchants could present a united, if still respectful, front. Guilds were granted trading rights within a lord's territory, in return for certain considerations. From a lord's point of view, he could influence trade, tax it effectively, take a share of the wealth and still not actually sully his hands in the dirty business of trade. By acting together, the merchants could help finance major trade enterprises when one man alone would have difficulty raising the required working capital.  "It is rice that paid for the soldiers and their training that even now flock to our banner" continued the attendant, gesturing to the recruitment scrolls. "It is rice that keep the samurai from having to sully themselves with crude work." What is likely to be the last of our major mobilisations, our production of garrison forces all around our empire will help to stabilise those areas from the inevitable Realm Divide attacks that are almost certainly on their way. Of particular note is the two new units of samurai we produced, one is our typical Katana Samurai from Yamato to help bolster our forces there, while we have produced a brand new type of samurai, the Naginata Samurai in Tosa on the island of Shikoku. Highly defensive in nature, nothing is better at holding a fortification against superior numbers than the humble naginata. Given that we can't really afford to have enormous garrisons everywhere, the Naginata Samurai provide more bang for your koku than the two units of Yari Ashigaru it replaces (cost wise) in a defensive siege battle.   Cost: 750 Naginata Samurai are the most heavily armoured non-hero units in the game and are effective against both cavalry and infantry, although not as much as their dedicated counter-units. Their incredible armour enable them to shrug off all but the most wilting arrow fire and charges, but they are slow and will tire easily climbing walls or running long distances. Naginata Samurai are unmatched in a defensive battle. Ingame encyclopaedia - Naginata Samurai posted:The naginata is a long staff with a curved blade fixed to the end. Its length and flexibility of use make it a great melee weapon. Like all samurai, these warriors have trained hard to achieve full mastery of their chosen weapon and excel when fighting enemy cavalry and infantry. Despite their versatility, they are still vulnerable to the very best cavalry and infantry and they have little protection against missile attacks. Historically, the naginata proved to be a very adaptable weapon, used by a variety of different groups in many ways. Samurai women were trained to use it in self-defence when their men were away at war, where the polearm's length compensated for the height disparity between men and women. The sohei warrior monks used it en masse, which suited their mob-like formations, while samurai used it both when mounted and on foot. To extend its already formidable reach, a samurai would hold the end of his naginata and whirl it above his head, or stand up in the stirrups of their horses and use slashing motions at the enemy.  "It is rice that keeps the finest tacticians and advisors sharp to best serve the clan" grinned the attendant. "And rice which keeps the soldiers fed and eager for battle, with a charge unmatched by a hungry man." "I guess so" replied Masanari, sullenly. "But it's not anywhere near as much fun." "It is rice that makes sake too and that certainly is fun" laughed the attendant. "Especially in the company of pretty ladies." Masanari wrinkled his forehead. "What do you mean?" "I'll tell you when you are older" replied the attendant, sagely. Although the boost from Strategy of Attack is one of the weakest of all the similar arts it should not be underestimated, especially when it comes to boosting ashigaru units. A small boost to charge is nice, but the real meat in this art is that it unlocks the entire offence side of the Bushido arts (sword, bow, cavalry, boats) and it is for this reason that we are interested in it. Given that every clan we are fighting is almost certainly going to have this art, this just closes the gap a little between our forces and theirs, rather than giving us an advantage. Although it allows the construction of the Siege chain, almost every unit produced there is completely worthless (albeit fun, although the units that are at the very top of the tech tree are good) and so it's not worth worrying about. Primarily, we are interested in it so that we can capitalise on an aspect of combat that Yasunaga has a penchant for, killer cavalry.   Ingame encyclopaedia - Strategy of Attack posted:To attack, regardless of the odds, is a mark of true courage. A general who uses the strategy of attack will have an increased charge bonus as his men follow him headlong into the heart of battle! A true warrior should always be on the attack. Bombarding an enemy with wave after wave of attackers denies them the opportunity to formulate any effective strategy.  "Your very actions further oppress the people of Japan, bringing endless suffering through the extension of this terrible war" thundered Sadamori. "The blood of innocents, the blood of children is upon your hands!" "It can't be" stated Chikafusa. "I just.. I just do sums, take notes. I don't give orders for terrible things." "You can't be so sheltered as to not know what those numbers and notes turn in to, can you?" sneered Sadamori. "It turns into death. Children taken from their mothers, young men sent to die for hopeless wars. You are the demons of which we warn our children." "I'm sorry" sobbed Chikafusa. "I didn't know. I didn't think. What have I become?" The Shogun strikes! Using their high level Monk agent, the Ashikaga Shogunate have managed to convince Chikafusa, one of our best tax making Metsuke in one of our richest provinces to abandon the clan! As part of the agent triangle, Monks are the counter agent to Metsuke and are incredibly effective against them, much like Metsuke are effective against Ninja. The implications of this loss are tremendous, as Chikafusa was responsible for ~600 koku a turn of income, the loss of which, combined with our collapse of trade thanks to Realm Divide and our heavy recruitment has us coasting a lot closer to financial trouble than I would really have liked. Luckily we had all those economic buildings come online this turn or else we would be in dire straights indeed. The Ashikaga will pay for this and they will pay dearly.   The monk had been simple enough to track, his movements predictable, his speeches impassioned but his words served the Shogunate, not Heaven. "How long must this war drag on?" boomed Sadamori to the assembled crowd. "How many sons must we send to die? How many must go hungry to support this tyranny?" Tameshige grinned, moving with speed towards the monk, drawing his weapon. A woman screamed. Their payment will start with Tameshige's first real mission, the obliteration of this Metsuke destroying Monk. As Monks are the counter unit to Metsuke, so Ninja are the counter unit to Monks. I must admit, this was an incredibly satisfying order to give. The fact that it was so cheap to attempt to murder a level 3 Monk was really just icing on the cake, as this Monk is the single biggest threat to our economy in the game at the moment.  Click here to see the mission!  It was over in an instant, Tameshige's blade lodged in Sadamori's chest, the monk collapsing against Tameshige in shock. "Why?" whispered the monk, confusion in his eyes. "Why must there be so much death?" "Shhh" replied Tameshige. "I love this part." He twisted the blade and the monk's eyes went wide before the life faded from them. "A little closer to heaven for both of us" Tameshige mocked, pulling the blade free and escaping into the scattering crowd. I knew we had a pet psychopath for a reason. Although the Shogunate will continue to pop out Monks with the intention of causing havoc, the lower level monks will be much less likely to actually succeed, not to mention they will province constant practise for Tameshige. For now, at least, we have a few turns to try to salvage this economic mess.   "What do you mean, reassigned?" lamented Muneaki. "That wasn't part of the deal!" "Well, I can't imagine your father is too happy about it" replied his friend. "Time for you to perform solo." "Failure he will likely get us both killed" noted Muneaki. "Yasunaga is not the forgiving type." "True" his friend sighed. "Guess we both got dealt a lousy hand." However, while we can't remove the loss completely, we can at least mitigate it by playing Metsuke musical chairs. Luckily for us, the poorest Mestuke province, Iga, is within a single turn of Yamato, so we dispatch Muneaki from Iga to manage Yamato and salvage ~200 koku a turn. It's still a nasty blow, but it's the best we can do to avoid the loss directly.   "Scouts report a large Takaoka force massing on the border, my Lord" noted the attendant. "The composition looks elite, although we do have numerical superiority." "Another delay" stated Yasunaga flatly, his eyes narrowing. "All while the Ikko Ikki grow in strength." "My Lord?" questioned the attendant. "No matter, it seems our work here is not yet done" replied Yasunaga. "Prepare the fortification in case they attack. If not, we will need to take the fight to them." Our newest ex-trading partners, the Takaoka, have launched an attack on Wakasa, locking Yasunaga and his troops in place. Although the attack doesn't look too bad, there are a large number of samurai that I can see, so it could still be a threat. Although I don't expect them to win if they attack, they are more than capable of killing enough of our troops to blunt our force and keep Yasunaga locked down, something that I really can't afford right now.   "It has come to my attention that some of our men are proving... unreliable" stated Fuyusuke. "The Hattori have need of reliable men." "What is in it for me?" questioned Kanetomo. "Why would I help you out, old friend?" "The honour and glory of the Hattori of course" replied Fuyusuke, straight faced. "A chance to do what is right." Silence hung in the air before both men burst out laughing. "I almost thought you were serious there" laughed Kanetomo, before becoming serious again. "Now in all seriousness, why would I help out the Hattori?" "The Hattori need you and your connections" responded Fuyusuke. "While you must stamp out corruption, no-one ever said you had to get it all..." The words hung pregnant in the air. "Go on" responded Kanetomo, taking a sip of his sake. "I'm listening." Replacing the lost Metsuke, Chikafusa, is our second highest priority right now (the first was eliminating the Monk responsible) and to that end we recruit Kanetomo. Although the fact that he is recruited at Settsu will mean that he will be in transit for a turn, this is more than made up for by the fact that he starts at rank 2 thanks to the Library in Settsu (and so provides potentially 20% tax boost instead of 5%).  "Put simply, as long as you mete out an appropriate amount of justice, no-one will question your other enterprises" stated Fuyusuke. "With the local magistrate answering to you, you have a lot of leeway in ensuring you get adequately rewarded above and beyond your normal pay." "I shut down the competition, raise the tax take and pocket a percentage" nodded Kanetomo. "A state sanctioned monopoly. Now that is a deal I can get behind. So why me?" As is standard procedure with every Metsuke ever in Shogun 2, we take 2 points in Magistrate for increase in overseeing towns to give us the sweet, sweet tax boost.      While a reduced chance of assassination is nice, Metsuke already have a very high resistance to assassination as the counter units to Ninja and at this point in the game I would be completely mad to not take more tax (Always take more tax).  "Your connections with the Yakuza are invaluable in these troubling times" replied Fuyusuke. "The Hattori need those as much as they need your skills." "Well then" said Kanetomo, smiling. "It looks like this will be a most profitable arrangement." The perfect  The summer sun was hot upon his face, but nothing could take the spring out of Nakasada's step. "I'm really doing it" he thought to himself. "I'm going out and changing the world." We need to get the Ikko Ikki under control in Echizen, Kaga and Wakasa as soon as possible so that our garrison forces can regain their mobility. Nakasada will help us achieve that with his superior province conversion skills and is sent into Echizen itself. Unlike Metsuke and Ninja, as long as there are people to convert in a province the Monk will gain 3 experience a turn just for being there, always a nice bonus. Although we do plan to have him located in Echizen which while it won't make the province recruit any faster, it will increase the happiness of the province based on Monk skill and the amount of the population supporting his religion.   "Some say the suffering of our people are a test from Heaven" boomed Nobuchika. "But I say it the machinations of men that have brought so much suffering to all" The head monk watched, silently from the background as the sermon took place. "It is only through our devotion to the spiritual that we can find the strength to endure the physical" preached Nobuchika. "And endure we must! We must be the cherry tree and not the blossom. No matter the darkness and the cold, we must remain strong." The sermon ended, the gathered crowd started to disperse. The head monk made his way to Nobuchika. "A good speech" noted the head monk. "I've been tasked with finding a brother to assist in dealing with the Ikko Ikki religious unrest." "The Ikko Ikki bring false hope to the people" flared Nobuchika. "Their philsophy may be inwardly comforting, but it ultimately brings only despair to the people." "I had been confident in choosing you before" stated the head monk. "But now I am certain. Pack your things and await orders from Yasunaga. You are going to save the people." But that's much too big a task for a single Monk to achieve, so we recruit another one in Ise for the bonus skill level. Unlike every other agents, Monks stack perfectly for province conversion, so it's perfectly viable to have a Monk squad roving from province to province to bring the religious unrest down and that's exactly what I plan to do (provided I can manage to build/capture some more temples).  It was, the head monk had to admit, a very good speech, filled with the fire and passion of youth. "I remember when I was that young" thought the head monk. "I had all the answers. Now, I'm not sure I even have the questions." Nobuchika is perhaps a little more firebrand than Nakasada and his presence is much more inspiring, so that he can provide more happiness to the towns he is stationed in and work as a way to free up armies and characters from hotbeds of religious unrest (like Wakasa).      Unlike with the Metsuke, being assassinated is a serious concern for a Monk. However, being able to actually eliminate enemy agents is incredibly useful against both other Monks and Metsuke as well as giving them a little more teeth against Ninja. Since we plan to have Nobuchika behind our front lines, the risk of assassination is low and the biggest threat is likely to be an enemy Metsuke with a sackful of cash, so elimination of enemy agents is more of a priority.  Nobuchika was nervous. "Move away from the temple?" It was a sobering thought. "Be the tree and not the cherry blossom" he mused. "Be the tree and not the blossom. Always endure." Nobuchika is incredibly young for a Monk, one of the youngest I have ever seen! Although it's a little dangerous to have multiple agents set up for the same task, with the amount of religious unrest we are going to cause (and have already caused) with our war on the Ikko Ikki, there is no shortage of the task these Monks need to do.   "A job well done" stated Korekata. "But our work is far from over." Moving back from our liberation of Harima, Korakata heads to Settsu to rejoin the garrison forces there.   Korekata stood at the head of the army, a volume of men matched by few in Japan, if any. Despite his inexperience in command, Korekata was a noble, a man filled with absolute conviction, a deep-held belief in the way of things. "Already we have liberated those that the allies of the Shogun have crushed" he boomed. "Already we have begun to undo the plans of those who would see us destroyed. Now we move with new purpose." He stopped, eyes scanning his forces before putting his hand on the hilt of his sword. "The Shogun have too many men, too much power for us to move against him directly" he continued. "But like all men he can not stand alone!" Drawing his sword and holding it high, Korekata locked eyes with the ashigaru commander in the front row. "Today we march into history" he bellowed. "Today we fell a giant. WHO IS WITH ME?" The cheering was deafening. Since the Ashikaga Shogunate never attacks with their military forces, the only threat is Tamba to the north. Now commanding a full stack worth of troops, Korekata moves towards Tamba with the intent of eliminating another pocket of resistance and isolating the Shogun completely.   "If this ship was any slower it would be faster to swim" fumed Taketoshi. "What a terrible way to travel." "You might technically be in charge" noted the admiral. "But on my ship, you don't bad mouth her unless you want to test your luck swimming." "I'll say what I want about who I want" snapped Taketoshi. "While your beloved ship takes her time, our enemies gain strength and we are not there to stop them." "Next time you need to get to or from Shikoku, Taketoshi, you are swimming" stated the admiral. "Unless you learn to curb your temper." With the conquest of Shikoku completed, Taketoshi moves his now rather limited force to the docks of Settsu in order to disembark. By disembarking on friendly docks, both the disembarking army and the fleet will retain their movement points, while a beach landing or hostile port landing will consume all the movement of both forces.  "Forgotten how to use your legs?" bellowed Taketoshi. "That's the slowest march I have ever seen! My grandmother marches faster and she's been dead these last 10 years. MOVE!" With a full compliment of movement points left, Taketoshi moves towards the east to finally give us a powerful military presence and let us push forward (or defend well!) the eastern border. With his army of veterans honed by many battles, even this relatively small army will cause a lot of pain to any unprepared enemy!   "Flags sighted, admiral" yelled the lookout. "They are ours!" "Send up the welcome flags" ordered the admiral. "We are whole and well again." Split up, the western fleet is weak enough to be threatened by many of the larger enemy fleets in the area, so we rejoin the western fleet with their newly repaired shipmates, once again bringing the fleet up to an acceptable standard of might. Although the western fleet is far from being unstoppable, the moderate size and skill of the ships mean that it could take most fleets in a 1v1 scenario. Our problem is that it won't be a 1v1 scenario as we can expect multiple enemy fleets to be streaming towards us at a terrifying pace.   "At least the weather is good for marching" noted the soldier. "Rumour is we are going to be involved in taking Mino. But Mino is held by our allies, so that doesn't make any sense." "You better keep your mouth shut about that sort of thing" replied another. "Worry about your orders now, not what they might be." Our newly recruited Katana Samurai begins their trek towards Omi to reinforce the garrison there and await the arrive of Taketoshi.    Yasunaga crumpled up the report. "How did this happen without us knowing about it?" he demanded. "How could our spies have missed a mobilisation of this size?" "It seems the Shogunate has been sneaking in soldiers as workers and administrators for a celebration of the Emperor" replied the spymaster. "We thought the excessive armour and weapon stores were just showing off." "Your failure has meant we have a large force of samurai on our doorstep" stated Yasunaga. "Our heartland is in danger due to your incompetence." "Forgive me, my Lord" replied the spymaster, bowing low. "But we believe there is no danger. If the Shogunate were to attack their forces would quickly be divided and easily overwhelmed by ours. The Shogun is a coward who merely buttons up and hopes for the rest of Japan to do his dirty work. I believe we are safe for the moment." "For your sake, I hope you are right" replied Yasunaga, ominously. I mentioned that the Ashikaga Shogunate get free troops on Realm Divide and this is what their army looks like after they have been boosted by that event. That's a serious, SERIOUS army. With enough light cavalry to cut down any cavalry you dare to field, enough bow samurai to slaughter any ranged troops with little fear and enough katana and naginata samurai to grind any army into the dirt, this is a force that will need to be handled with skill and finding some way to even the odds. Since we can't really afford to build two full stacks of samurai to match them in firepower, we will need to find another, perhaps more dishonourable, way of solving that particular riddle...   "The end is in sight lads" boomed the sergeant. "Soon we will have a warm bed, warm food and all the sake you can drink!" Our troops from Iga finally arrive to reinforce the garrison at Ise, which should now have enough troops to repel all but the largest invasions. Given our now precarious koku position, this may be all the forces we can spare. Realm Divide, it's always rough.   "Where are the guards?" thought Chisato, observing the main gate while hidden inside the complex. "I don't like this, it feels like a trap." Waiting and watching, she could feel the hairs raise on the back of her neck and her heartrate start to rise. What if they were flanking her as she waited? What if they had archers in hidden positions ready to strike? How could they know she would strike tonight? "Calm yourself" she thought, taking a deep breath. "Let's get the job done." Moving towards the main gate, she began placing the charges. To prevent the Hatakeyama forces from reinforcing with additional troops (as well as at bargain basement prices!) we dispatch Chisato to sabotage the fort in Noto. Noto currently has a moderately sized Ikko Ikki population, so I'm also hoping that the loss of the fort repression bonus will flip them over into unhappiness.  Click here to see the mission!  The detonations of the firebombs going off sounded like thunder, thick plumes of smoke billowing up from the fortification. Watching from well outside the walls, Chisato nodded to herself and wondered about the strangely abandoned fortification. With the main gate destroyed and the barracks ablaze, there would certainly be enough disruption. Without looking back, Chisato slipped off into the night. Success! Sadly the loss of the fort repression bonus only takes the province to neutral instead of unhappy, but it was a bit of a long shot. At the very least, the Hatakeyama won't being reinforcing and putting additional pressure on our northern front, which is a bargain for a mere 65 koku. Although we could have far less valuable agents doing this essential but relatively easy work, we have no-one in the area and it looks like, for the near future at least, Chisato is like Yasunaga and caught up.   "Ikko Ikki ship spotted, sir" yelled the lookout. "A single vessel." "Signal the fleet to engage" bellowed the admiral. "I do love a bit of fun in an afternoon!" The Ikko Ikki foolishly sail a ship into range of our eastern fleet and we move in to punish them. Although a single ship is no threat, if we let them build up we could be facing a far worse situation. Best to prevent the fire before it happens.  "All ships full speed ahead" ordered the admiral. "First ship there gets boarding rights!" "That's the plan, sir?" questioned the captain. "Seems a bit straight forward." "One ship is no threat and so the men won't be motivated" replied the admiral. "By making it a competition, the men will fight harder and better." "That's clever, sir" replied the captain. "It doesn't matter who wins but we all benefit." "Like hell it doesn't matter captain" boomed the admiral. "I'm going to take that ship personally, so we better get there first!" Our 4 mighty Medium Bune and 2 Bow Kobaya against a mere 1 Medium Bune. There is no competition here, no chance. With any luck we will capture it and further cement our naval superiority in the region. This is absolutely no contest. This fleet battle was autoresolved, there is no battle video.  "Hahaha, is that the best you got?" boomed the admiral, his katana striking down an Ikko Ikki sailor. "Does anyone have what it takes to face me? Can anyone even come close?" The Ikko Ikki sailors started surrendering, swords and bows hitting the deck. Their situation was hopeless. Slamming his sword into the deck point first with enough force to splinter the wood, the admiral scowled. "I thought not." Success! A captured Medium Bune and the eastern fleet grows ever stronger, ready to take on all comers. If pressure grows too strong on the western fleet we may need to redeploy but for the moment, things are looking good on this front.  "The ship is ours, my Lord" reported the first mate. "A job well done." "I know that, you idiot" snapped the admiral. "I bloody well took it." His face softened. "Even so, you all fought well" he continued. "It's easy to be a good leader when everyone who serves is as fine as you." "Thank you sir" replied the first mate, saluting. "We won't ever let you down." Autoresolve casualties on ships are always a little weird and this is no exception. It probably lost as many soldiers as I would have if I played it, but spreads them out over all my ships. While this is advantageous in land combat as each unit replenishes, in sea battles it just slowly grinds you down and I would rather have a single ship take the damage that I can send off to repair. Nevertheless, it's minimal impact to the fleet in terms of combat effectiveness.   "She's going to need repairs and a new crew" noted the admiral, dryly. "Especially since the old one is dead." "Shall we escort her home, sir?" questioned the captain. "No" replied the admiral. "There is more fun to be had yet." With the newly captured Medium Bune basically useless, we send it back to the Ise port for repairs. Unfortunately, we can't actually afford the repairs thanks to the massive economic beating we are taking, but there are ways of fixing that.    "The Ikko Ikki rely on this silk trade route to finance their operations" stated the admiral. "We are going to redirect some of that trade by force." "Isn't that piracy, sir?" asked the captain. "It's hardly what we were trained to do." "It's called salvage" replied the admiral. "Their ships are likely so full as to be in danger of capsizing. This is basically search and rescue. I plan to rescue the hell out of each and every one of them." With a decent fleet and a valuable enough trade route, we can now turn the tides on the enemy and raid them! The amount each ship raids is a percentage of the total value of the trade route and based on each ship. A Medium Bune will raid a greater percentage than a Bow Kobaya, for example. These percentages are additive and are unaffected by how many crew are left on the ship in question. As we can see here, this raiding expedition is worth a whopping 844 koku a turn! Given that all of our ships have an upkeep of 1200 koku a turn, not only is the eastern fleet paying for itself, but it's paying for half the western fleet at the moment. Although this income is hardly reliable, it works great as a stream of money to invest into our economic infrastructure, turning our temporary boon into a permanent one. The AI might have thought it would stall our economy, but we don't go down quite so easily. Summer of 1552 (Enemy Turn)  "The Takaoka force is attacking, my Lord" announced the attendant. "You were right." "Archers to the walls, spears to form up in the courtyard to repel gate attacks" ordered Yasunaga. "Cavalry to form up on me. I don't plan to sit here and let them run all over us." As expected, that Takaoka attack, but their force is *significantly* more elite than I had expected. Although on paper our forces of 2 Light Cavalry, 1 Hattori Yari Samurai, 5 Hattori Yari Ashigaru, 3 Hattori Bow Ashigaru, 1 Hattori Kisho Ninja and 1 Samurai Retainers is superior to their 5 Yari Samurai and 3 Bow Ashigaru, the high veterency on their samurai means that we can expect to take significant casualties when we are in melee. We will come out on top, but without some exceptional play it will most certainly be bloody and likely enough to halt our advance altogether.  Click here to see the battle! "They are coming over the walls!" screamed a soldier. "I don't know how long we can hold while under fire!" "Reinforcements move to support the eastern wall" ordered Yasunaga, spurring his horse towards the gate. "Cavalry on me, open the gate! Let's do something about those archers!" Although Wakasa is one of the better maps to defend with only 3 approaches, the small but elite composition of the enemy force renders that advantage basically moot. While with 3 archers we have enough to have at least some ranged firepower on each approach, we don't have enough of it to make them bleed heavily before they are over the walls and into our forces. It's going to hurt.  A horseman screamed, an arrow in his chest, but Yasunaga paid him no mind, the Hattori cavalry crashing into the Takaoka archers, man vs beast. The ashigaru archers trampled under the fury of the cavalry, men impaled on spears or struck down by swords. Yasunaga and his guard cutting a bloody swathe through the ashigaru, a seemingly unstoppable attack led by a man who was death itself. The archers wavered, like a beast struck a mighty blow, before turning as one and running. Seeing the Takaoka forces flee emboldened the defenders and sapped the will from the attackers. There could be no doubt who was victorious this day. Yasunaga comes through yet again, proving why he is the true leader of the Hattori with a performance that would put Taketoshi to shame! Even while defending a fortification, dealing a 2:1 kill ratio against veteran samurai with ashigaru is an incredible feat. With daring, cunning and decisive cavalry action even in defence, Yasunaga demonstrates why the Shogun is right to be terrified of us (Except for the bit where our ninja blew up our own ashigaru. But that never happened)!  "A small number of the Takaoka forces escaped, my Lord" reported the lead ninja. "Their leader still lives, but they won't have got far. Your orders?" "I think it's time we show the Takaoka how you perform a proper attack" stated Yasunaga. "I think it's time they saw exactly what they have unleashed." If you needed proof of exactly how incredible the performance of our Light Cavalry was, look no further than the fact that they went from rank 1 to rank 6 (even if they did lose half the unit) in a single battle, accounting for the most kills out of any melee unit! The other stars of the show were our Bow Ashigaru, not only were they moderately elite to start with, but they were boosted by the accuracy bonus from being produced in Echizen (Fletchers) in addition to receiving the accuracy boost from Yasunaga's Gomuyumi. The end result is Bow Ashigaru every bit as deadly as Bow Samurai but with greater numbers. Even the simplest archer led by Yasunaga is a terror, let alone some of the finest ashigaru you will ever find (We need to get some Bow Samurai!). The first post Realm Divide attack is over, but many, many more are on their way by land and sea... Sneak Peek: Redemption... shalcar fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 06:11
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Man. I wish I was that good at defensive actions. Expert use of cavalry, I loved seeing that downhill charge. 
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Jun 15, 2014 09:36
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I don't see what all the fuss is about, Realm Divide looks easy! 
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Jun 15, 2014 15:20
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This is a great LP! I don't know if it's been covered before, but what is up with the balloon things on the bodyguards? If I was going to ride into combat, I'd probably not want to do it with a zeppelin on my back.
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Jun 15, 2014 17:37
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Arrow catchers, I understand.
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Jun 15, 2014 18:05
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They're miniature hot air balloons that pull the riders upwards, reducing the weight put on the horse. This allowed the horses to go all day without the horse tiring. (Just kidding, arrow catchers)
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Jun 15, 2014 18:08
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That bit about the Shogunate getting extra troops on Realm Divide. If you're on the verge of triggering the divide, is there merit to bumrushing Kyoto to try to dodge those troops, or is it best to do as you are and wait them out?
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Jun 15, 2014 18:15
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It's a horo, which translates into English as arrow catcher. You can see how they work here.
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Jun 15, 2014 19:55
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Agent Interrobang posted:Man. I wish I was that good at defensive actions. Expert use of cavalry, I loved seeing that downhill charge. I'm also impressed with how you used that cavalry. I would've just had t stay in the fort and say "Hey, it's only yari ashi getting killed. I've got a million of them ready to go." I loved how some of the archers actually went flying when the cavalry hit them. At least that's what it looked like to me.
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Jun 15, 2014 20:13
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Thread posted:Arrow catcher stuff Huh, that is pretty cool. Shows what I know about back-zeppelins!
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Jun 15, 2014 22:13
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I'd assumed it was a padded bundle rather than 'inflatable' like that. Thanks for the info and vid!
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Jun 16, 2014 08:07
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dupersaurus posted:That bit about the Shogunate getting extra troops on Realm Divide. If you're on the verge of triggering the divide, is there merit to bumrushing Kyoto to try to dodge those troops, or is it best to do as you are and wait them out? Ideally, one of, if not the best way to go into Realm Divide is by taking Kyoto and so avoiding having to fight that whole second stack that appears. Remember that taking Kyoto triggers Realm Divide immediately so you don't want to take it until you are ready to kick it off, hence why it's best taken as your province that would have kicked off Realm Divide anyway. Mr.Morgenstern posted:I'm also impressed with how you used that cavalry. I would've just had t stay in the fort and say "Hey, it's only yari ashi getting killed. I've got a million of them ready to go." They certainly did go flying, it's something I really like about the game is that the weight feels just right. Even lightly armoured troops take a fair bit of force to send flying (although a downhill cavalry charge will do it!) and it's almost impossible to scatter heavily armoured units even with the best charge from cavalry. The armour of the cavalry actually makes a difference, so Katana Cavalry send units flying more readily even though they don't go quite as fast as light cavalry.
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Jun 16, 2014 10:36
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dupersaurus posted:That bit about the Shogunate getting extra troops on Realm Divide. If you're on the verge of triggering the divide, is there merit to bumrushing Kyoto to try to dodge those troops, or is it best to do as you are and wait them out? It also depends on how much money you have. If you have enough money and a decent metsuke nearby, then what's really happened is the Shogun did you the favor of raising an army for you.
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Jun 16, 2014 14:13
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I don't have anything intelligent to say right now, but I wanted to thank you for keeping this LP going. It's great.
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Jun 17, 2014 03:09
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shalcar posted:Ideally, one of, if not the best way to go into Realm Divide is by taking Kyoto and so avoiding having to fight that whole second stack that appears. Remember that taking Kyoto triggers Realm Divide immediately so you don't want to take it until you are ready to kick it off, hence why it's best taken as your province that would have kicked off Realm Divide anyway. The funny thing is, even though I've beaten the campaign several times, I've never assaulted Kyoto. I just secure my borders and siege the place.
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Jun 17, 2014 06:23
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Does Kyoto have a special map? 
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Jun 17, 2014 17:36
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petrol blue posted:Does Kyoto have a special map? It does. Edit: Wait, it's too long ago, I'm not sure anymore. Perhaps in Rise of the Samurai? Sorry, I don't know, I'm old 
Torrannor fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 20:36
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Torrannor posted:It does. Nah you're right, the map is unique in vanilla and I personally can't wait to see it done by someone much better at this game than myself here
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Jun 17, 2014 21:19
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Okay, that was some great use of cavalry. Wow. Could they have prevented that by mixing up their sides more?
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Jun 18, 2014 06:44
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Glazius posted:Okay, that was some great use of cavalry. Wow. Could they have prevented that by mixing up their sides more? The AI splits its forces up for sieges far more than I personally do. 3-4 units per attack vector is really spreading it thin. Early on Shalcar points out he only splits up his forces for a siege when it provides a strong advantage, and then it's only into two groups of 6+ units. Theoretically splitting up unto a bunch of little attack angles like the AI could work out. You ideally surround and tighten a noose around the Tenchu. If done in practice with a handful of 3-4 units per group, it leaves each individual group vulnerable to any sally forth tactics, and often leaves the attacking groups thinner than they ought to be when dealing with the walls. Largely my take on it though. I personally don't like dealing with the loss of manpower going over walls so I will split into two, maybe three groups and burn all the gate houses and flood in that way.
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Jun 18, 2014 07:53
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I usually split my forces so much only if the AI doesn't have enough infantry to cover all my attack points. You can feint and bait the infantry away from the walls, letting you climb without confrontation, which is a huge advantage. Sometimes this allows you to capture the fortress without having to melee, losing less troops.
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Jun 18, 2014 12:25
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I would have enjoyed seeing use of the Hammer and Anvil tactics for that siege. Was holding the other Light Cavalry back really needed?
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Jun 19, 2014 15:15
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Scalding Coffee posted:I would have enjoyed seeing use of the Hammer and Anvil tactics for that siege. Was holding the other Light Cavalry back really needed? They were rank 6 veteran Light Cavalry, so they were far too valuable to take casualties against a force that was going to be decisively beaten by our other forces, that's all.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:47
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shalcar posted:They were rank 6 veteran Light Cavalry, so they were far too valuable to take casualties against a force that was going to be decisively beaten by our other forces, that's all. Yeah, that makes sense. With the rate of reinforcement being what it is, plus Cavalry not really having that large of a unit size, any casualties that you would've taken on your veteran unit would need too long to reinforce and the unit would consequently lose some XP and veterancy ranks. Still, you did pretty drat good with the Light Cavalry unit that you did send out. I never really considered those harassing tactics when defending a castle, mostly because I don't really use cavalry all that often, but it was really effective. The one time I attempted to do anything like that, I sent a force of heavy Cavalry (including I believe a General) out to harass a small group of late arriving enemy reinforcements arriving when I was sieging an enemy castle. Tried attacking them from the rear in a lengthy charge, but made the mistake of going against a group of Yari Samurai, resulting in a serious loss of units in my cavalry units, including the General himself, if I remember correctly. Didn't even really disrupt those enemy reinforcements all that much, even after all that. Still, they were delayed enough to not have an impact on my siege of the castle and I took that without much problems with my other units. Still, that was a pretty poor choice there on my part, I would think.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:15
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shalcar posted:They were rank 6 veteran Light Cavalry, so they were far too valuable to take casualties against a force that was going to be decisively beaten by our other forces, that's all. This is honestly a big part of Shogun and Total War strategy that a lot of people leave out, which is that barring a few select, expensive province upgrades, you can't really BUY veterancy. Veteran troops are ALWAYS more valuable than green troops unless they're ashigaru, and even veteran ashigaru can be better than rookie samurai of similar composition. Once a unit gets to be around rank 4 or 5 in experience, then you generally want to keep them as an ace in the hole unless you just don't have any other option, both to protect your investment in them AND to allow rookie units a chance to get experience as well.
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Jun 19, 2014 19:22
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Agent Interrobang posted:This is honestly a big part of Shogun and Total War strategy that a lot of people leave out, which is that barring a few select, expensive province upgrades, you can't really BUY veterancy. Veteran troops are ALWAYS more valuable than green troops unless they're ashigaru, and even veteran ashigaru can be better than rookie samurai of similar composition. Once a unit gets to be around rank 4 or 5 in experience, then you generally want to keep them as an ace in the hole unless you just don't have any other option, both to protect your investment in them AND to allow rookie units a chance to get experience as well. Basically, when you do commit such troops, you are "res ad triarios venit" anyway. 
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Jun 19, 2014 19:51
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my dad posted:Basically, when you do commit such troops, you are "res ad triarios venit" anyway. That's Latin for 'totally hosed', isn't it?
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Jun 19, 2014 20:55
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Closer to 'in it to the end'. Wikipedia says the triarii were older, weathier mean who could afford the best weapons and armor. Most battles were decided one way or another before they actually got into a fight, and if they were called in it was because you needed a win.
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Jun 19, 2014 21:08
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Ratoslov posted:That's Latin for 'totally hosed', isn't it? More or less. Some  for those not in on the joke. The units of RTW fame come from old Roman military structure (we're talking pre-Legion, citizen militia stuff here) where the first few ranks would be the younger men but the last rank would be the blooded veterans. Each rank was set up so that it could retreat behind the last one, save for the triarii who had to hold at all costs. If things have 'come to the triarii' then the situation is certainly not all lost, but you have fallen back to your last resort.
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Jun 19, 2014 21:09
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Ratoslov posted:That's Latin for 'totally hosed', isn't it? "It has come to the triarii" or something to that effect, yes. The triarii were the oldest and most experienced troops of a pre Marian Reform Roman Legion, equipped with the best gear (heavy armor and shield, spears and swords) by dint of their wealth. They were the final reserve of the formation, and if all of your younger and least experienced guys in the lightly armored Hastati in the first battle line and your more experienced fighters in the more heavily armored and equipped Principes in the second couldn't get it done, then you had to commit your Triarii from the final battle line. If it came down to the triarii, that meant that the battle wasn't really going all that well and you really needed your best dudes to turn the tide or end it. If the battle was lost, or you needed to retreat, the Triarii would also withdraw last, covering the retreat of the other two battle lines first. Guess quite a few people here read up on Roman military formations, or at least remember Rome: Total War, what with all the flying around...
GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 01:08
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Or have been playing Rome 2 recently.... Huzzah
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Jun 20, 2014 09:03
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Bahumat posted:Or have been playing Rome 2 recently.... Has it stopped being a buggy mess?
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Jun 20, 2014 10:17
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